It might be better if someone else cover Lamar Jackson.
What I see is an RPO player. I watched one game film against Florida State.
There may be a place for Jackson but the offense must commit to the strengths he brings to the table.
He is a dynamic runner. It would be foolish to try and make a different player. He can throw the ball but he is not a passing quarterback.
If you draft him then you must commit to his style of play.
It may work. It may not.
When you run in the NFL injury is a constant that has to be considered.
Lamar as a passer is a work in progress. He often brings his base to close together. He is not accurate. He could not function in a standard type NFL offense. Where you release from center and scan off play action. He would have to work on that kind of game and I don't think that would be utilizing his strengths.
When I watch him Vick comes to mind. When you can run like that and you see open space or a crease your instinct is to take off.
He is not a guy who is going to stay in the pocket and wait for plays to develop. He is not going to watch three or four receivers run routes and find the open guy.
The Browns passed on Deshaun Watson who is a better passer than Jackson so I have my doubts that they would consider Lamar.
I could all wet on this. But unless an organization is fully committed to Lamar Jackson's style and builds around that? Meaning an OC and who wants to run an offense to incorporate RPO as the base than I doubt it can work.
Maybe someone else is better qualified than I am to figure how he would work into where the Browns now are.
I think you're a bit off base. I think Jackson works with more NFL concepts than Mayfield does.
Yes, he is definitely a dynamic runner, but I think his passing is underrated. He does make full field reads. He has touch. He doesn't just scramble to run, he also keeps his eyes down field. He's gotten much better at manipulating and working in the pocket.
He's basically got the same production as Mayfield with a ton less talent around him and facing better defenses (particularly pass rushers). He's also two years younger.
He doesn't have to be in an RPO Offense, but he definitely gives you that option. Faster, younger Watson, not quite having the same intangibles (which is an important distinction). Similar as passers but Jackson lacks the pass catchers Watson had.
Needs to improve his ball security.
I want to track down percentage of passes where he's under pressure.
Lamar Jackson already looks like the better natural passer over Watson. The argument can be made he's also the better overall athlete.
I think Watson had the better team surrounding him, while Lamar Jackson has to be the passing game and run game.
I also think the whole injury argument is overblown. how many "pocket" QB's go down in the league all the time?
let's go down the list of some of the QB's who have gone down with injury that isn't typically considered a run first QB.
Carr, Teddy, Peyton, Brady, Luck, Palmer, Winston, Cutler, Bradford (omg take a big shiny LOOK at bradford), Rodgers.
and that's just off the top of my head. Alex Smith has missed time. Wilson has missed time. Mariota has missed time. Big Ben, Flacco.
well holy crap, injuries happen to QB's. all QB's, no matter what they're style of play is.
as a matter of fact, Vick and Tyrod Taylor have missed a whole lot LESS games than a lot of QB's listed.
Wentz started training camp/OTA's his rookie season freaking injured.
Lamar Jackson's biggest knock will be his impatience in the pocket. but the film is out of him going through progressions in certain games, so the ability is certainly there.
He can and has made all the throws, has a cannon of an Arm, and has the agility of a cheetah.
i also find it a huge disservice that you half assed this thread compared to Rosen and Mayfield, especially when Lamar Jackson has the better overall numbers.
Josh Rosen:
62.2%, 3094 yards, 8.1 per pass, 21 TDs, 9 INT -29 yards rushing, -0.7 per attempt, 2 TD's
23 total TD's
Baker Mayfield:
71.2%, 3559 yards, 11.9 per pass, 31 TDs, 5 INT 231 yards rushing, 3.2 per attempt, 5 TD's
36 total TD's
Lamar Jackson:
60.2%, 3003 yards, 8.5 per pass, 21 TDs, 6 INT 1176 yards rushing, 6.6 per attempt, 15 TD's.
36 total TD's. _____________________________
Josh Rosen is a statue in the pocket. in today's NFL, thats bad. but people are hyping him up because once again, people fall in love with measurables and not what's actually happening on the field.
hell, the sack numbers are comparable, even though they don't tell the whole story, like any other stats:
Rosen: 19; Jackson: 22; Mayfield: 19.
if the draft was held tomorrow, Lamar would be the better pick of the 3. especially when you consider what kind of QB Hue would want, which is important.
If we decide to move on from Kizer, which depends on how the season plays out, the FO isn't gonna miss on a QB again. They will let Hue decide which QB he wants, and with the kind of offense we run, Lamar Jackson screams through the list of QB's possibly coming out this draft.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
don't fall in love with the measurables, fall in love with what you see on the field.
no offense bro but you and others did the same thing with Watson vs Trubisky. and Watson looks to be worlds better than Trub so far, even with him being out with injury.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
So the 3 year starter in college with MUCH BETTER TALENT and a coach that lets him play looks better than the 1 year college starter with ZERO TARGETS and a HC that HANDCUFFS him is playing better ...
the threads are based on QB's who might be coming out THIS draft.
as correlation between watson and Trubisky, i stand by my comments.
i'd take the 3 year starter who has grown as a QB over the one year starter.
it doesn't take a genius to come to that conclusion. but it does take a genius to explain much of ANYTHING to you.
jeez
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
What I said about your guy should not be taken as a insult.
If you noticed in the threads I have written about quarterbacks I have not mentioned one stat.
I am going by what I see. If you see something else by all means point it out. That is why I put it out there.
Let's not over think about running the ball as a quarterback. Any quarterback or for that matter any player can get injured. However, do you not increase the odds when you get hit more often by running the ball?
I didn't half ass the thread on Jackson. I stated that maybe someone else should cover the guy.
I have not even said who I would like to draft because I am not at that point in my evaluation.
There are no preconceptions on my part regarding Lamar Jackson. I stated what I saw from the game I watched.
You believe in the guy and that's fine.
Neither you or I am the GM. What I see in Jackson I stated.
I have no idea what Sashi or Hue Jackson wants. Hue made the deal to get Carson Palmer. He has worked with Flacco. He of course worked with Dalton. Who drafted Kizer? What input did Hue have on drafting Kizer? Who was driving the trade to get McCarron?
Unless you have been a part of that process or have direct information from that circle I doubt you or anyone else has that answer.
I literally mentioned Hue and the FO with regards to how they will pick a qb.
Hue stated he wanted someone bigger. That might rule out mayfield.
Hue has been wanting mobile quarterbacks. That definitely rules out Rosen.
Honestly I can’t say whether or not a qb running the bell would get hurt more. I’ve seen so many injuries within the pocket I wonder if QBs aren’t better off running anyway.
A qb taking off on their own terms compared to getting smacked in the pocket while standing there.
We literally just saw that happen to our own quarterback back last week.
And isn’t everything on this board based on speculation anyway? I’m judging want he wants based on the QBs we’ve had on the roster.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
He is one of the top 3 players in college. Browns are debating between he and Rossen. We will see but I think Hue will voice for Jackson. Michael Vick with a pocket game.
I dont think we need a rookie QB. We need a vet to lead this young team.
I'd take that. Peak Michael Vick was so stinking fun (and good). Imagine him in a modern NFL offense instead of being forced into a west coast system (thanks Jim Mora!). . .
Lamar Jackson actually has NFL size unlike Vick, plus he could probably add 10-15lbs still. If his team was better he'd be getting more press..I mean dude didn't just come out of nowhere, his team sucks, he doesn't. He's having the best statistically season of his career
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday. -John Wayne
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I'm nearly four minutes in and haven't seen anything that I would look for in a QB..... where/when does he start to make quality throws to guys that aren't open by a mile?
A video of a guy that is in love with QB-Keepers isn't a solid sales pitch for an NFL QB. That's a one-trick pony athlete who will have a short career at the next level.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
i seen quality throws in that vid but i guess you don't.
but we didn't agree on watson either, so thats fine.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Jackson has 1 more TD than Darnold and half as many INTs, while facing much better pass rushers.
Harold Landry Bradley Chubb Josh Sweat ...The entire Clemson D-Line
The only (somewhat) highly rated pass rushers I see in the PAC-12 are at USC. (Wash.St. does have a ~4-6 round DE draft prospect)
Lamar plays behind a line that's not very good in pass protection, while also being his team's leading rusher by a hair under 1000 yards (1443 to 446). Darnold has 89 rushing yards to Ronald Jones 1346 (and 16 TDs), so he has more rushing help as well.
Teams focus on trying to stop Jackson, and they can't.
You can't even really use the he's not winning argument because his team is 8-4.
Yes, he makes a ton of amazing plays with his feet, but I see no reason to hold that against him.
He can and does make big time passes, too.
Last edited by GrimmBrown; 11/27/1704:35 PM. Reason: for accuracy-the backup RB actually has 518 yards, but was listed after the starter who had more TDs...still....
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
j/c Lamar Jackson's footwork is putrid. he has horrible wasted body motions, that will get him killed in the NFL, he's throwing off the wrong foot on the run, his throwing stance looks like a circle over a triangle. He looks like he is standing at 90% of his height.
If we had a year to fix his mechanics, he could probably throw the ball 10mph faster and 15 yards further. However, his mechanics are so bad... there may not be any way to save him.
j/c Lamar Jackson's footwork is putrid. he has horrible wasted body motions, that will get him killed in the NFL, he's throwing off the wrong foot on the run, his throwing stance looks like a circle over a triangle. He looks like he is standing at 90% of his height.
If we had a year to fix his mechanics, he could probably throw the ball 10mph faster and 15 yards further. However, his mechanics are so bad... there may not be any way to save him.
...what does that even mean?
I'm also not sure there is a wrong foot to throw off of when throwing on the run. It's "on the run" => mostly arm throws which he has the ability to make.
Care to elaborate on the "horrible wasted body motions" as well?
I also don't think he has any need to throw the football 70 MPH and 115 yards
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
The NFL is a passing league and Jackson is anything but a passing QB.
He is a run first QB who has a great arm but is not a great thrower of the ball. You cannot win consistently in the NFL with a QB like that, in my opinion.
I would take Rosen, Darnold, Allen, or Mayfield before Jackson.
j/c Lamar Jackson's footwork is putrid. he has horrible wasted body motions, that will get him killed in the NFL, he's throwing off the wrong foot on the run, his throwing stance looks like a circle over a triangle. He looks like he is standing at 90% of his height.
If we had a year to fix his mechanics, he could probably throw the ball 10mph faster and 15 yards further. However, his mechanics are so bad... there may not be any way to save him.
...what does that even mean?
I'm also not sure there is a wrong foot to throw off of when throwing on the run. It's "on the run" => mostly arm throws which he has the ability to make.
Care to elaborate on the "horrible wasted body motions" as well?
I also don't think he has any need to throw the football 70 MPH and 115 yards
well, my son was a quarterback for about 6 years so I got the privileged to learn too much about QB's before he decided to focus on baseball as a pitcher.
With the elbows level at the base and a loaded wrist in the “cocked” position off the back shoulder, the triangle shape provides for a powerful position to launch the football. This pre-throw carriage position reduces the tendency to wind up on the throw, aligns the throwing arm in a position that generates arm power, and reduces wasted motion resulting in a faster release.
https://www.krossover.com/articles/proper-quarterback-throwing-stance/ Boxers and quarterbacks share the same base in the stance of your legs. To be a successful quarterback, you need bent knees and your power to come from your back leg, just like a boxer throws a punch. Quarterbacks want to transfer their weight back foot to front foot when throwing the football.
If you have watched QB's enough, you can just see the wasted motion and how he is standing entirely too tall. It's hard to explain However...
His drop back is all over the place but his motion is usually really small. He doesn't use his hips through the pass when he throws, he locks his front leg and drives it into the ground. When he does that, he completely loses balance and over throws his target.
Hence.... why he has accuracy issues and cant' hit the broadside of a barn outside the numbers.
His deep ball passes are pretty horrific. they look like they are floating down the river because he again is throwing with his arm instead of his legs. The ball constantly sails and he overthrows a lot.
Last thing... when he is under pressure... his footwork vanishes. Hew cheats it by shortening it before he gets hit, and that is probably why he runs at the first sign of pressure.
His arm is comparable to a premium NFL QB however, he also has the footwork and throwing motion of a 8th grade QB.
j/c Lamar Jackson's footwork is putrid. he has horrible wasted body motions, that will get him killed in the NFL, he's throwing off the wrong foot on the run, his throwing stance looks like a circle over a triangle. He looks like he is standing at 90% of his height.
If we had a year to fix his mechanics, he could probably throw the ball 10mph faster and 15 yards further. However, his mechanics are so bad... there may not be any way to save him.
...what does that even mean?
I'm also not sure there is a wrong foot to throw off of when throwing on the run. It's "on the run" => mostly arm throws which he has the ability to make.
Care to elaborate on the "horrible wasted body motions" as well?
I also don't think he has any need to throw the football 70 MPH and 115 yards
well, my son was a quarterback for about 6 years so I got the privileged to learn too much about QB's before he decided to focus on baseball as a pitcher.
With the elbows level at the base and a loaded wrist in the “cocked” position off the back shoulder, the triangle shape provides for a powerful position to launch the football. This pre-throw carriage position reduces the tendency to wind up on the throw, aligns the throwing arm in a position that generates arm power, and reduces wasted motion resulting in a faster release.
https://www.krossover.com/articles/proper-quarterback-throwing-stance/ Boxers and quarterbacks share the same base in the stance of your legs. To be a successful quarterback, you need bent knees and your power to come from your back leg, just like a boxer throws a punch. Quarterbacks want to transfer their weight back foot to front foot when throwing the football.
If you have watched QB's enough, you can just see the wasted motion and how he is standing entirely too tall. It's hard to explain However...
His drop back is all over the place but his motion is usually really small. He doesn't use his hips through the pass when he throws, he locks his front leg and drives it into the ground. When he does that, he completely loses balance and over throws his target.
Hence.... why he has accuracy issues and cant' hit the broadside of a barn outside the numbers.
His deep ball passes are pretty horrific. they look like they are floating down the river because he again is throwing with his arm instead of his legs. The ball constantly sails and he overthrows a lot.
Last thing... when he is under pressure... his footwork vanishes. Hew cheats it by shortening it before he gets hit, and that is probably why he runs at the first sign of pressure.
His arm is comparable to a premium NFL QB however, he also has the footwork and throwing motion of a 8th grade QB.
I get the triangle part, it was the circle over part that I was having trouble correlating to this year's film.
As far as his horrid deep passing, what year are you watching? His mechanics have drastically improved over the course of his college career.
Last edited by GrimmBrown; 11/29/1707:24 AM. Reason: I also think your calling it a stance threw me a bit, sense it made me think feet. Throwing motion is what you linked to, and then circle over a triangle seems to be what it is saying you are supposed to do?
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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