DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus House GOP tax overhaul keeps retirement rules

Bills age like vinegar, not wine. They won't magically fix all of the problems in committee.

FWIW ...

I think you’d pee on him ...

Ya ... we’d be much better off rolling along with the status quo ... the countries in such GREAT SHAPE RIGHT NOW ....

And so making the country worse will help?

Guess oBUMa and the dems have nothing to do with health care ... ...

Why do they get off the hook? ...

I’ll go ahead and wait and see what IF anything gets passed before i make final judgements ...

FROM WHAT I’VE SEEN AND HEARD ... if it looks anything like this ... its not going to be good ...

I like to wait til the games over as oppossed to having a hissy fit in the 1st quarter .. but thats just me ...

They at least tried. The ACA is a fail on most accounts.

But at least I can even have insurance because of it.

Because I surely couldn't before.

The republicans have offered zero to improve it.

They want to punt it back to the states.

Because they know the only solutions will [censored] off their corporate donors. And they don't want to give up the kickbacks of their symbiotic relationship.

they were suppose to try and vote again today? any word?

it seems like they really tried to rush this legislation, just like they did with the failed ACA repeal.

i wonder if they were rushing because of the possibility of the Alabama seat flipping?

They tried .. they didn’t even read it ... ...

They didn’t try squat .. this was just step 1 in in getting to socialized medicine run by none other than guess who ... THEM ...

PS. ... it is FAILING all on its OWN ...

Tonight at 9 I think.

None of these politicians know anything about taxes. I am a CPA. I know taxes.

The bottom line is, the Dems at least got something passed that actually helps people.

The Repubs have got zero zilch nothing passed. And everything they have put on the table has been a very bad non solution.

They don't.

But the bills the GOP have put forth (with a flawless government monopoly) have basically been "let's take this crappy thing and make it worse".

The reason it keeps failing is because citizens keep calling the GOP swing and screaming not to do it.

And Trump is a senile moron who thinks health insurance costs $12 a month and thinks he's cutting middle class taxes.

But don'tget me wrong - the ghouls will probably win on this tax thing.

REPUBLICANS WILL CUT SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE AFTER TAX PLAN PASSES, SAYS MARCO RUBIO

http://www.newsweek.com/tax-plan-social-security-medicare-welfare-republicans-rubio-729133?ref=yfp

I hope it doesn’t pass, but if it does, and it probably will, I’m sorry GM. That sucks for you bro.

I don't understand why they are doing this?

Don't they know they will get voted out?

Their donors are why they're doing it.

These people know they'll get voted out, but they'll land in cushy parachutes.

Maybe they don’t think they will.

Most of American was aware they wanted to bring back trickle down and cut SS and Medicare, and they voted for it anyway. So the argument can certainly be made that this is the will of the people.

I don't have much respect for people who don't refer to the President as President Obama or President Trump.


You are new here, but you will be hard pressed to find anywhere I don't call the President by his title and name in other than only very generic terms.


If you can't say President Trump, best not say anything. His title and name was President Obama. I disliked him as much as you dislike President Trump.


Show some respect. That is what this country is missing.


Call me old fashioned.



Oh...I don't appreciate you calling me a ghoul. Maybe focus on what the tax bill will do for you and quit being concerned with what it will do for people making more than you.


Sounds a bit like penis envy. My thinking is you got what you got and be happy with that. I don't have a problem with people making money. It sounds like you do.


If you aren't happy with what you make, go out and make more. This great country has lot's of possibilities for those who seek to acheive.

I'm not new here at all, dude. I've been here for well over a decade.

You most certainly didn't respect Obama. You didn't need to - he was a milquetoast spineless celebrity - but don't pretend like you offered him some North Korean-like reverence because of his position.

So senators just got the bill about an hour ago, which parts is still hand written, and they haven’t read through it.

They really are trying to rush this through.

Stop scaring the elderly.

On the Senate floor Thursday night, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) asked Rubio and Sen. Patrick J. Toomey (R-Pa.) to promise that Republicans would not advance cuts to Medicare and Social Security after their tax bill. Toomey said that there was “no secret plan” to do so, while Rubio said he opposed cuts to either program for current beneficiaries. However, neither closed the door to changing the programs for future beneficiaries.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk...m=.1bb920a4bddd

They may raise retirement age for people under 30 and make changes to future medicare. Stuff like that.

From my link

“We have to do two things. We have to generate economic growth which generates revenue, while reducing spending. That will mean instituting structural changes to Social Security and Medicare for the future,” Rubio told a crowd at a Politico conference. Rubio's talk of structural change is vague, but will likely include changing the rate and age of Social Security and Medicare payouts.

________


Please keep up.

Stop scaring the sick and elderly.

Well duh.

Tomorrow is the future. 2 weeks from now is the future.

Anyways

Here’s a snippet of an article that’s pretty damning:

Now, even that thin pretense is dead. This will raise taxes on millions of middle-class people, as earners making $40,000 to $50,000 will by 2027 be paying $5.3 billion more while millionaires will pay $5.8 billion less. Republicans just no longer give a crap. They’re like the family alcoholic who used to at least try to hide it, sneak his nips in the attic, but now no longer even bothers trying to hide.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/gop-tries-...hoo&ref=yfp

I encourage all to actually read this. Break down of the tax bill they want to pass.

It is the structure of legal bribery that goes with politics. They are paying back the donors.

Yeah, but, rule #1 of being in power is that you don't lose your seat of power.

somebody showed on one of the news stations tonight when I got home a tweet from a democratic senator of a page of the bill that still had handwritten text on it. They had to wait to vote on it until they type up the changes.
About 5 minutes ago Elizabeth Warren said that she had about an hour to read the bill

Benefits, if cut, would be on future beneficiaries, it current ones.

This is true. The first priority for any politician is re-election.

They want to give us an early Christmas present.

Yea, a lump of coal that cost them more to dig up than what it’s worth.

As somebody on CNN put it about the unpopularity of the tax bill...you guys don't understand the republicans have been waiting for 40 years to get full control and do something like this

Being reported that it doesn’t look like they will vote tonight. But still a chance.

If the tax reform bill passes, and the economy is in a good place next year, the Republicans will keep control of congress in 2018 and then we may see some Dems slit their throats.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/11/30/tax-bill-spending-cuts-gop-congress-274337

Tax bill could trigger historic spending cuts



By ADAM CANCRYN and SARAH FERRIS
| 11/30/2017 08:28 PM EST


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Republicans are on the verge of a massive tax overhaul that would hand President Donald Trump his first major legislative victory. But the $1.5 trillion tax package could trigger eye-popping cuts to a slew of federal programs, including Medicare.

Unless Congress acts swiftly to stop it, as much as $150 billion per year would be cut from initiatives ranging from farm subsidies to student loans to support services for crime victims. Medicare alone could see cuts of $25 billion a year. And the specter of those cuts has thrust Congress into a high-stakes game of political chicken.

With so much attention focused on the tax bill itself, neither lawmakers nor many of the advocacy groups had paid as much attention to the depth and breadth of the cuts that will ensue unless the House and Senate come up with a bipartisan deal to stop them. Some groups had run Medicare ads, but they were largely overshadowed by the tax debate itself.

The tax bill hit snags in the Senate late Thursday, as Republicans worked on ways to ease the concerns of deficit hawks. Leaders were still scrambling for votes.

But within the GOP, leaders are confident that once the tax bill is passed, they can strike a quick deal to waive the federally mandated cuts. But Democrats deeply opposed to the tax bill aren’t making any promises they’ll agree to bail out their rivals — raising the risk of a historic gutting of government programs.


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“This would be unprecedented,” said William Hoagland, a senior vice president at the Bipartisan Policy Center and a former GOP Senate staffer with expertise on the budget. “The law never envisioned that we’d eliminate programs.”

GOP leaders are asking moderates like Susan Collins (R-Maine) to back the tax package with the mere promise that lawmakers can find a bipartisan solution during an already divisive year-end crunch that could lead to a government shutdown.

One senior House GOP source was confident a deal on spending would go through. "A statutory PAYGO sequester has never happened, and we will prevent one from being triggered," the source said, adding that Congress has until the end of the year to work it out.

The far reach of the Republican tax plan is the consequence of limitations placed on Congress under the “pay-as-you-go” rule. The decades-old law, revamped during the Obama presidency, requires Congress to offset the cost of each piece of legislation or risk spending cuts painful to both parties.

Lawmakers have repeatedly voted to waive this rule, a total of 16 times, for major bills like the Obama-era stimulus and multiple tax cut packages under George W. Bush.

The GOP’s $1.5 trillion tax plan would trigger $150 billion in cuts to domestic programs every year for a decade if Congress doesn’t step in, according to the CBO. That would include $25 billion from the money Medicare pays health care providers.

"You’re likely to have doctors who will see less patients; you’re likely to have hospitals and other health care facilities cut back on certain services,” said David Certner, legislative counsel for the AARP, which has loudly opposed cutting Medicare. “It really affects the program.”

The fallout for numerous smaller federal programs would be even more drastic, effectively zeroing out their budgets. And while conservatives want smaller government, they don’t necessarily want programs lopped off across the board.

The largest chunk would come from health and domestic programs like the Social Services Block Grant, which stands to lose $1.7 billion, and the Federal Hospital Insurance Trust Fund, which would lose $715 million. Obamacare’s Public Health and Prevention Fund — long a target for Republicans — would be wiped out.

Agriculture is usually a spending priority for conservatives, but the tax bill could put $20 billion of farm aid on the chopping block. Nearly all federal programs for farmers would see funding evaporate.

“Basically, Mr. Perdue would only have the food stamp program to work with,” Hoagland said, referring to the Trump administration’s Agriculture secretary.

Those cuts would also kick in for the Department of Education's student loan repayment services, U.S. Customs and Border Protection and the unemployment trust fund.

Republican leaders rushing to pass the tax package have so far dismissed that doomsday scenario as far-fetched — although they were still making last-minute changes on Thursday to address fiscal concerns and stay within Senate budget rules



Collins, a key moderate holdout on the tax bill, said she received a personal assurance from Majority Leader Mitch McConnell on Wednesday that the cuts would be waived — one day after she threatened to oppose the bill over the severe reductions. She said House Speaker Paul Ryan had made the same promise.

“I am confident that neither side of the aisle wants that to occur,” Collins said Thursday morning at an event hosted by the Christian Science Monitor, adding that GOP leaders will likely strike a year-end deal to waive the pay-as-you-go requirement.

But the price tag could raise some thorny questions for Republican leaders desperate for a legislative win in the waning weeks of the year — a year in which they controlled the House, Senate and White House and have little to show for it.

Some deficit hawks have already objected to ballooning the national debt, pushing instead for required tax hikes if the bill fails to pay for itself — as many economic analysts predict, including Congress’ own Joint Committee on Taxation. Raising taxes would effectively have the same overall impact on the deficit as allowing the spending cuts to take place.

“A vote to block that sequester becomes an awkward vote for some Republicans who said we should be cutting spending,” said Ed Lorenzen, a senior adviser at the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget. “It is ironic that congressional leadership is simultaneously telling members that they’re going to block the sequester at the same time they’re negotiating a trigger that’s supposed to have tax increases.”

The looming threat of the cuts, known as sequestration, has been a political gift for Democrats as they’ve attempted to kill the GOP’s tax bill.



Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer has repeatedly railed against the GOP’s tax bill for “gutting Medicare.” A series of ads targeting vulnerable House Republicans last month warned that the GOP bill “forces a $25 billion cut in Medicare."

Publicly, at least, some Democrats have suggested that they could play hardball — withholding their votes to waive the cuts and forcing Republicans to take the fall.

But privately, longtime Capitol Hill veterans say Democrats would never allow spending cuts, even if they could avoid the blame.

“Medicare is underfunded as it is. If we have to change the PAYGO rules, we’ll just change ‘em,” said Rep. Phil Roe (R-Tenn.). “At the end of the day, we — Republicans and Democrats — have to go home and face our constituents. I wouldn’t want to go home and face my constituents if I’d cut Medicare."

Trumps tax speech was......what in God’s name.....

It’s funny how the rules are that you only need 52 to pass this Bill, yet an amendment Kaine just tried to place into it requires the normal 60 votes.

It’s 12:30 and they are still trying to pass this bill.

Tax bill just got passed.

Seriously.