unless the rook shows hes better than either one RIGHT NOW
and not just marginally better or kinda getting there better..... absolutely, undeniably better in all regards. In other words, he either outright TAKES the job and forces Hue to start him, or he sits until he earns it or is traded.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Sign Case Keenum. He's good enough without being so good as to stand in the way of a really good rookie, or Kizer.
Draft a QB in the 1st.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Have vet and Kizer battle it out in camp .... unless the rook shows hes better than either one RIGHT NOW ... let either Kizer or the vet Start ..
Its much much better to have TWO GOOD YOUNG QB’S than NONE ...
Eggs in two baskets is smart ... Eggs in one basket stupid ...
1 + 1 = 2
1 + 1 = 2 is mathematically correct, but whether it's any good for the Browns is highly dependent on what those ones are. 1 Bust plus 1 Bust equals 2 Busts which doesn't help us any.
It won't matter if Rosen/"insert QB name" hits the WRs in the numbers every pass if they still can't catch it or get open for him to get it to them.
If both your baskets are full of holes, I'd prefer to stop putting eggs in them and watching them fall through and splatter. Doesn't matter how many baskets you have if they aren't good for carrying eggs. You get too many baskets you don't have the hands to hold them. Sometimes it's best to fix one basket. Sometimes the problem isn't the eggs or the basket but the crazy person swinging it around like a maniac.
Not that I'm against drafting a QB necessarily, but your argument for it is underwhelming.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
To expand on this even further, people can't even agree on who the "best" college QB is from one year to the next. This time last year, everyone was pimping Darold, now it seems to be every new shiny object that played this year except Darnold. Most peoples' "evaluations" are really just regurgitated flavors-of-the-week based upon whomever the sites they read are pimping or running articles on.
That's why you pay people seven figure salaries to figure it out and not depend on some internet claimed expert that couldn't sniff an NFL FO.
and those same internet experts will still be on here no matter which way things go to tell us all how they're doing it all wrong and how they should do it the way the "expert" thinks it should be done.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Kizer has not performed well enough to allow the Browns to pass on a QB [provided they think there is a guy worthy of being such a high pick.] You can't rely on hope when you don't have an answer.
I think Kizer's lack of accuracy is a concern. I think how long he holds the ball is a bigger concern. I think him not every showing signs of going through progressions is a major concern. I think he doesn't throw w/much touch and that is a mild concern.
He does have some strengths. He is big. He has a good arm. He seems intelligent. He seems like a hard worker. He has improved in 2 of the past 3 games.
I think he has potential, but this franchise can not afford to gamble on the position.
I like Rosen and Darnold a lot.
I have a feeling that Darnold isn't coming out. There are rumors out there that he won't come out if the Browns have the first pick. I do like his skill set a lot. I do think he loses accuracy at times, especially under pressure due to his lower body mechanics breaking down.
I like Rosen because he is the most accurate. He throws the ball where guys can get YAC. He stands in the pocket and is still accurate. He has an elite arm. I also really like that I have seen him make post-snap reads and go through his progressions. That is HUGE for me. I am not saying that other guys won't be able to do that in the NFL, but we just don't know. That is why I was skeptical about some guys in previous years and it is also why I liked Luck and Teddy so much. I saw them make those reads. Rosen makes them and makes them rather quickly. There are some character concerns, but they are all rumors and speculation. He hasn't been arrested. He hasn't abused women. He put a hot tub in his college room....LOL..........not sure how that is a big deal?
I am sure the QB discussions will get intense, but one thing for sure...........if the Browns deem one of these guys as a true franchise qb, they must take him. I am surprised that people are debating it.
And hasn’t us on the Internet consistently manage to have better mock drafts than the FO’s actual draft?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
And hasn’t us on the Internet consistently manage to have better mock drafts than the FO’s actual draft?
And some of y'all do so many mock drafts, it's impossible to be "wrong". No matter who gets picked where, who booms and who busts, they can go back and find a version of their mock that allows them to say "see, I picked it!".
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
I think a lot of this has to do with perception. Because Kizer was drafted in the 2nd round, it's easy to say he wasn't drafted to be "the guy". Because of that, it seems easier to not give the 2nd year of development before writing him off. (Not saying I agree or disagree, just throwing out a hypothesis.) If a guy is drafted in round 1, especially top 10 or 15, there is more of a perception that he was drafted to be The Guy (because he more than likely WAS), and; therefore, give him more time to develop.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do. -Derek Jeter
And hasn’t us on the Internet consistently manage to have better mock drafts than the FO’s actual draft?
And some of y'all do so many mock drafts, it's impossible to be "wrong". No matter who gets picked where, who booms and who busts, they can go back and find a version of their mock that allows them to say "see, I picked it!".
I think that perception will always be there for fans, but not for the team. They'll base their decisions on what they're seeing on film where as we're more reactionary to W/L.
In Hue Jackson's film breakdown this week, he was gushing about Kizer on the deep throw to Coleman. Changed the protection to pick up the blitz, audibled Coleman's route after reading the coverage pre-snap, still threw a perfect pass in spite of the protection breaking down and putting him under duress.
Hue Jackson said, with a big smile on his face, "This is a sensational play by our quarterback... and that's why he's our quarterback."
I'm not so sure anyone in this building is ready to give up on Deshone the way our fans are, in spite of his draft status. The tape has been more impressive than the numbers.
If everyone gets fired, we'll no doubt move on, but I think the people in place have seen enough to grow with him. His draft status is of little relevance.
I'm not so sure anyone in this building is ready to give up on Deshone the way our fans are, in spite of his draft status. The tape has been more impressive than the numbers.
It's getting to be a bit annoying how you twist words around in order to win an argument.
Can you name all the people who have "given up" on Kizer? There might be a couple of dummies who have said that, but most of the people who want the Browns to draft a qb w/their first pick have NOT given up on Kizer.
Instead, we are saying that Kizer has NOT proven that is a true franchise qb and until you have a franchise qb, you draft a guy who you think can be.
Please stop misrepresenting our argument in some enervated attempt at protecting Kizer.
You are obsessed with the idea that someone can "win an argument" and it is getting annoying.
To someone else's point about perceptions of draft value, that had nothing to do with you, I made a very broad, general statement encompassing the Browns fandom, that also had nothing to do with you. It was literally just a post about how the average NFL fan perceives draft value compared to NFL teams. And teams do value their own selections more than the average fan.
Why is it that saying so about Kizer suddenly offends you? I've have cut Ricardo Louis, like most fans I have given up on him, but the Browns value their draft selection more than I do. I've made that point plenty, but magically it isn't offensive.
I don't know why you keep trying to find veiled shots at you, or other board members, in such a post. You are obsessed with this idea of "winning the argument" like we're all in some kind of direct competition. Not everything is about you, as much as you've desperately tried to make it so.
I have no idea what you are talking about. I am saying that you are coming across as a person who is so obsessed w/defending Kizer that you are resorting to making things up. I find that annoying!
I really haven't seen a lot of people "giving up" on Kizer. Instead, posters [not just me] are saying we should draft a qb w/our first pick because we can't be positive that Kize is the guy.
I really haven't seen a lot of people "giving up" on Kizer. Instead, posters [not just me] are saying we should draft a qb w/our first pick because we can't be positive that Kize is the guy.
I'd say that about sums up most everyone.
That being what it is, if he has the light go on and starts to click from here on out.... then, I'd be onboard with giving consideration to not drafting a QB. But, he'd have to play REALLY well for that.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Of course I'm defending Kizer. Isn't the point of a Kizer thread to discuss Kizer and his long-term potential? You can pretend I'm "making things up" but most fans don't think Kizer will be a long-term starting quarterback. That's a fact.
We've got six months to discuss draft prospects. Did you really think everyone was collectively going to say, "You're right, Vers, select Rosen and let him compete with Kizer in 2018. Great idea. Well, see you guys next September!"
Kizer still has five games left in the season, and I'm going to focus on him during that time. During the offseason is when I will start to more heavily discuss draft prospects, which I avoid during the season.
For what it's worth, I'd currently select Sam Darnold with the first overall selection, and with Houston's pick I am keen on adding someone like Ridley or Sutton to give Darnold/Kizer some weapons who don't suck. I am open to true BPA selection if we see someone like Fitzpatrick, Wilkins or Barkley fall, as they seem like potential pro-bowlers down the line. It depends on where Houston pick. They should lose three of their last five (Jags, Steelers, Titans) but it would be great if the Colts and 49ers could get shock wins.
You can find me annoying all you want. Put me on block. I won't lose sleep over you. Half the board finds you annoying but you don't see us complaining. Much.
I am fine w/opinions. I have no problem w/your opinions. I just don't like you putting words into the mouth's of people.
I actually liked most of your post, but then you posted this immature garbage:
Quote:
You can find me annoying all you want. Put me on block. I won't lose sleep over you. Half the board finds you annoying but you don't see us complaining. Much.
I used the word "annoying" because that is what you said to me. Get it? Half the board? Ya think? Or is it about a half a dozen posters who post religiously?
Get real, man. I will be arrogant enough to say that my word carries far more weight than yours and the half dozen.
With all the personal crap out of the way.............I will maintain that the Browns [at this particular point in time] should draft a qb w/their first pick [provided they think one is good enough to be the guy.] You dumb ass insults won't change that opinion, but it should win you some friends.
Can one of the mods confirm I have not edited my posts? I'm not comfortable with someone making this kind of false allegation against me. That's [censored] and totally inappropriate for someone to be doing.
The guy now has the freedom to say anything he wants. I can be accused of saying something racist or otherwise morally reprehensible, but simply editing it out, when no such thing happened.
That's gross manipulation. Nobody should be asked to put up with that.
I like the qb unit you guys are naming, but I think Rosen is the type of qb who can start day one. It's not like has a lot of learning to do. He has played in a pro offense and looks to be very good at handling the mental side of the game. Also, his mechanics are already good.
I think we could go w/a qb room of:
Rosen, Kizer, and a vet [someone like Matt Moore.]
I’m all for drafting a QB high REGARDLESS of how well Kizer plays the rest of the way ... but if he does continue to show improvement ... I could see getting a Matt Moore type as opposed to McCarron ...
If whatever rook we draft high .. and unless we get Cousins we will be drafting one high ... if that rook is the best QB opening day next year ... let him start ...
HOPEFULLY next year it’ll be ...
May the BEST man WIN as opposed to last years competition witch was the TOUGHEST SMURF starting!
edromeo-- from our conversation on the Kizer Pt. 4 and your response to my post:
ME
Quote:
Because, IMO, there are legitimate questions about Kizer that extend beyond adding weapons that could/should help him.
He is still rather inaccurate. He is still holding the ball too long (granted, it could be because of WR not getting open, I don't have a whole field view watching games). I do think it's fair to say, particularly up until two weeks ago when the running game was subpar, that defenses forced us to beat them throwing the ball.
That said, Kizer has shown improvement. I'm not as high as others are on his progress but it certainly has happened.
To me, it's simply about him not showing enough to deter our FO to skip a QB, especially if we end up drafting where many assume we will. You cannot pass up on a QB you like, if you ask me.
But you never know....maybe these final game drastically change the perception of Kizer's future.
YOU:
Quote:
But I'm not even talking about Kizer right now. I'm talking about the offense independent of the QB position.
You're taking your opinion of Kizer as fact it guides your thought process. And that's your prerogative that's fine.
But to assume that everyone shares your opinion isn't correct.
Many football people feel it takes ~32-48 games or 3 years for a QB to master an offense.
Regardless of how long it takes I think it's fair to say that it's too early make an assessment of Kizer as the "franchise" QB right now. Especially on a team very clearly devoid of talent at the most integral position to a QBs success.
I'm going to respond further but I'm on the phone.
First off-- when did I assume that everyone shares my opinion? I'm not Versatile Dog or anything like that, FYI. I don't canvas an opinion in one direction or the other and label it as a general POV. Please don't say that I do. I think I specifically lead with-- "IMO" & "To me". That doesn't normally encapsulate "assuming everyone shares my opinion".
And that's cool. Talking on a macro level about offensive weapons needed to help a QB in general is fine, but it still ends up always coming down to the current starting QB we have.
I would agree with you that it takes 2-3 years to fully judge anyone, let alone a QB, and Kizer could absolutely end up being the QB we need. However, his progress up to this point and perhaps through the remainder of this year does not indicate "to me" that passing on a QB is a wise endeavor. He has not shown enough to tell me, "IMO", we should pass on a top QB in this draft because it is important to give Kizer his three years first before doing so. QB is the most important position in this sport, obviously, and until we find one, I keep drafting one.
Quote:
You're taking your opinion of Kizer as fact it guides your thought process.
And yes. Yes, I am. Doesn't everyone?
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
I think the Browns will and should draft a QB with their 1st pick. However, there are good arguments on here in support of taking a QB high just like there are good arguments to NOT take a QB high.
But I make this post to throw out a caution...so to speak. If we do not take a QB very, very early in this draft (1st Rd) I expect that we will trade one of those top 5 picks for a 1st in 2019 to further hedge our QB bet(s). So...
If we take the QB, some people will be quite pleased. If we don't take a QB and trade a top pick, we will have less ammo to put around the Kizer arsenal. Some people will be pleased...some not.
Can one of the mods confirm I have not edited my posts? I'm not comfortable with someone making this kind of false allegation against me. That's [censored] and totally inappropriate for someone to be doing.
The guy now has the freedom to say anything he wants. I can be accused of saying something racist or otherwise morally reprehensible, but simply editing it out, when no such thing happened.
That's gross manipulation. Nobody should be asked to put up with that.
There would be a little caption below the post saying that it's been edited if you did. He is just grasping for straws.
Can one of the mods confirm I have not edited my posts? I'm not comfortable with someone making this kind of false allegation against me. That's [censored] and totally inappropriate for someone to be doing.
The guy now has the freedom to say anything he wants. I can be accused of saying something racist or otherwise morally reprehensible, but simply editing it out, when no such thing happened.
That's gross manipulation. Nobody should be asked to put up with that.
There would be a little caption below the post saying that it's been edited if you did. He is just grasping for straws.
Can one of the mods confirm I have not edited my posts? I'm not comfortable with someone making this kind of false allegation against me. That's [censored] and totally inappropriate for someone to be doing.
The guy now has the freedom to say anything he wants. I can be accused of saying something racist or otherwise morally reprehensible, but simply editing it out, when no such thing happened.
That's gross manipulation. Nobody should be asked to put up with that.
There would be a little caption below the post saying that it's been edited if you did. He is just grasping for straws.
That a FLAT OUT LIE ....
I have no clue what we're talking about but you can easily remove that caption by unclicking a box.
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
Can one of the mods confirm I have not edited my posts? I'm not comfortable with someone making this kind of false allegation against me. That's [censored] and totally inappropriate for someone to be doing.
The guy now has the freedom to say anything he wants. I can be accused of saying something racist or otherwise morally reprehensible, but simply editing it out, when no such thing happened.
That's gross manipulation. Nobody should be asked to put up with that.
There would be a little caption below the post saying that it's been edited if you did. He is just grasping for straws.
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