DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Browns Front Office...cont....

Moderators...With old thread at 10 pages, I hope it's ok to close it and open a new one?

Thanks, mac

Step ONE:



Don't cut your whole 53 man roster in the off season.

Step, TWO:

Don't allow other people to do so either


Step 3. Don't Forget Step one like you always have!

step 4. Don't forget about step two either.

Stop Cutting Veteran Players.

This rule doesn't start until after Kenny Britt cleans out his locker.

Eh. I was cool with cutting Kruger, Whitner, Bryant, etc.

Yes that rule applies to Kenny Britt!

You have to keep Kenny Britt, he's the starter, won it in the pre-season, started Preseason game 3, and regular season game 1, when only two wideout started, him and Coleman.

Britt is productive, (though barely) and improving.

And the problem is, they are going to replace him with the next Bryce Treggs type.

And Bryce Treggs hasn't done much of anything, (but only been around since middle of the season,)
but, Bryce,

Didn't really have to join the team and outperform anyone else after he joined the Browns to win starting vs. off the bench, playing time.

I actually agree.

We've not really had a veteran player who I am upset about losing. Objectively, Taylor Gabriel and Craig Robertson have been the best, but they're not world beaters by any stretch.

I think Schwartz and Pryor screwed themselves with their own failed contract demands. I think Mack wanted out regardless. I think Gipson was overpaid, and will likely be cut at the end of this season as a result.

Travis Benjamin would have been a great fit with Deshone Kizer, but I felt we lacked the right situation, at the time, for his value to be worthwhile. He's not exactly lived up to his dollars with Rivers, either.

I would like to see a focused effort moving forward on keeping our own in place, however. We've got plenty of young talent that should be part of our long-term plans. Keeping the team together is a big one when it comes to our own drafted players.

Moving forward with Coleman and (Fingers crossed) Gordon is going to change that dynamic. I also think we'll certainly draft a young receiver, if not two, for Kizer/Rookie QB/FA QB/Trade QB to grow with.

I agree Britt is improving, he's quietly shown something these last few games, but I'm uncertain of his future with what should be an influx of new talent.

Britt has no upside. He was overpaid this year and he's not that kind of player to be a mentor to young wrs
The guy the Browns should target in 2018 is Martavis Bryant
As long as Schuster is on that team Bryant will be the 3rd WR
Bryant wants to be a #2 #1
He has the talent to be a real vertial threat and open.up.secondaries

j/c:

It's funny that Tom Heckert's guys get mentioned all the time when it comes to players we need to keep/ should have kept..


Here comes pblack...

like who?

I loved having Tom Heckert as the GM. Why did they change GM's just because they changed other things.

Water under the bridge.

couldnt do the draft.. denver wont let the drunk near the draft either lol

See!? Like I said!

Who were the Vet players this FO "let walk" and should have kept?

Tom Heckert's draft picks as Cleveland Browns

2010

1. (7) Joe Haden, CB, Florida

2a. (38) T.J. Ward, S, Oregon


2011

1. (21*) Phil Taylor, DL, Baylor

2a. (37) Jabaal Sheard, DL, Pittsburgh

4a. (102) Jordan Cameron, TE, USC

5a. (137) Buster Skrine, DB, UT-Chattanooga

2012

2. (37) Mitchell Schwartz, OL, California

4a. (100) Travis Benjamin, WR, Miami (fla.)

2012 Supplemental draft

2. (34) Josh Gordon, WR, Baylor

i agree with most of those... i could add a few more.. how many first and second round picks in that massive list?

I thought vambo was asking not telling...? Could be wrong?

Looking at that list there really isn't anyone we miss.

Heckert failed to produce a winner plain and simple.
He failed miserably when he drafted Richardson and Weeden
Drafted a cupcake FB in the 4th rd that lasted 2 years in the league
How many of Heckerts 1st rd picks are still in the NFL?
Schwartz was his best pick out of what 35 40 players
He's no longer a GM for a valid reason

I've no proof but I don't doubt Holmgren had a big say in Heckert's first round picks, especially the Weeden pick. Holmgren always said he'd pick the quarterback. I believe he did.

Still playing Regime Wars.

only entertainment the browns are worth as of late...

I miss Schwartz, but I think we made up for it.

What's a Schwartz?

There is a lot of talk that a free agent quarterback like Eli Manning or Kirk Cousins is going to be a Jaguar. They've got no cap space as it is, and Allen Robinson is going to be a free agent, so he could possibly hit the market. He'd be my #1 target. Kid is an absolute superstar.

Martavis Bryant would be a savvy signing, too. I like it. Especially given his frustration - I love the idea of having a guy you know is going to circle Pittsburgh on the calendar.

Jeremy Fowler of ESPN reported via twitter, "Martavis Bryant said he spoke to Josh Gordon a few months ago ‘just encouraging’ each other. The two talented receivers who have served lengthy drug suspensions connected via phone."

To some, that's just a massive red flag. Two Superstars who haven't been able to control their issues. Personally, I think two athletes who can relate through mutual struggle, motivation and support would be a real positive.

I'd be okay with signing Bryant. He's undoubtedly a very talented player. Great vertical threat, like you said, so he'd be a great fit with Kizer/the big arm QBs up the top of the draft.

JMO, but re: Martavious, I'd rather have a solid route running, good possession receiver opposite Gordon.

Same with me. We have vertical threats. I would prefer a catch machine.

That's fair. Especially with Coleman, too. We've got vertical threads but that under, bodied possession receiver remains elusive. We certainly need it for the red-zone, too, it has been evident how much we've missed a contested-fade kind of guy.

I think Jordan Matthews is going to be on the outer in Buffalo and I'd love to get him. Predominantly plays the slot with the new wave of larger slot receivers, which is a great fit with Gordon and Coleman outside. He's a fantastic possession receiver, catches everything, and runs great routes. He's been hampered in Buffalo due to injury, but he doesn't seem himself there, so he could come cheap in free agency. He had a fantastic start to his career in Philly.

I also dig Calvin Ridley or Courtland Sutton with that Houston pick in the first. I wouldn't lock either in yet, I've not watched enough, but they certainly fit the bill of a coveted possession receiver.

How's haden doing in Pittsburgh?

And you'll still be saying this after Shon Coleman gets at least one more penalty today.

It's his second year in the league and first year starting. He played LT throughout college and now is at RT. The picking on him reminds me of the criticism of Schwartz early in his career.

GOOD COMPARISION ...

The only VALID COMPARISION is how there playing TODAY ...

Your argument actually makes it WORSE ....

Your basically saying we’re SUFFERING through Colemans GROWING PAINS TODAY as opposed to KEEPING SOMEONE who’s GROWING PAINS we had all ready SUFFERED THORUGH and had improved ..

Maybe we’ll get rid of coleman as soon as he stops getting a penalty a game and is more productive like we did with Schwartz ... BRILLIANT!!!!!

Hopefully ANALAYTICS can spot that MINOR FLAW in your support of Coleman v Schwartz ....

There have been 7 accepted penalties against Coleman...

2 were when he faced Suggs in Baltimore
3 were against Muhammad Wilkerson and Leonard Williams and the Jets
2 were against Carlos Dunlap and the Bengals

If you want to include penalties that were declined then the number against him goes up to 11 but 8 of those 11 were against those 3 teams.

So Pit is probably right. I'll probably still be saying it if he happens to get a penalty in this game.

We offered Schwartz more money than he is making today. He is no longer here because his agent screwed him...not because we didn't want him or make a GREAT offer to him.

I am not supporting one guy or/over the other. One guy is no longer here by his own doing. I'm not going to get huffy over his decision. The FO could not force him to sign the best deal on the market.

Coleman is here today...Schwartz is not. Coleman is a young developing player...Schwartz is not. Simple...no brilliance or analytics required.

Edited to add:

I'm not saying I prefer Coleman over Schwartz plus the 3rd Rd pick we used on Coleman. I'm simply stating that people beat up on Schwartz on this board until his last year here...just like they are beating on Coleman now.

You do realize that RT is a much easier position to play than LT, correct?

I agree with Diam. You develop a player, he becomes great then we simply rinse and repeat. Sounds logical huh?

No doubt that RT is "easier" than LT. Also no doubt that changing from a position played in college to a different position played in the NFL might take a first year starter (2nd year player) more than 11 games to master. Sounds logical huh?

Develop a player...offer him the BEST contract on the market. He decides to leave in spite of the best deal he would see. Rinse and repeat becomes the only logical action when it is the only actual choice.

Do you agree that part of developing a player is to accept the growing pains that come with it, right?

Do you agree that the RT job is much harder when your LT is a Hall of Famer and everyone you face decides that attacking the right side is their only option?

Do you agree that the RT job becomes much harder when you have a rookie QB that holds the ball longer than he should?

Do you agree that Schwartz got this same kind of crap his rookie year?

Or are you like Diam and think facts are for losers?

No doubt we need to add another receiver or two, but every week is just a play away from someone being out. That isn't exclusive to us.

The Steelers as an example don't have anybody to replace him.

Your back-ups aren't going to replace the starters without being a step or two back.