DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Tax Overhaul Pt. 2

GOP Senator Implies Those Who Aren't Millionaires Waste Money On 'Booze, Women'

https://www.yahoo.com/news/gop-senator-implies-those-aren-022808743.html

GM, we're not millionaires cause we keep smashing chicks all the time and turning up at the bar, apparently.

While he said it in an absolutely horrible way, I agree, keep in mind where he's from.

Many, many farmers have HUGE wealth - on paper.

With land around here going for $7-10,000 an acre, it doesn't take much for a farmer to exceed $5.5 million, on paper.

Say you own and farm 750 acres. That puts you at, on paper, $7.5 million in assets. Don't even bring up the, even depreciated value, of your buildings and equipment.

Why should a person that worked to buy 750 acres of ground, and farm it, have his heirs have to sell the ground in order to pay for the guy to die?

Who cares, right? Someone else will buy the ground, and pay taxes on it. Meanwhile, the death tax takes 40% of the sale? More?


(oh, someone that owns 750 acres of farm ground - OWNS - is probably making a decent living. Certainly not rich, by ANY stretch. If they don't OWN the ground - i.e. are paying off a loan on the ground, they aren't doing very well. Again, equipment? Any idea what a combine costs? The different heads for it? Paying people to help you? Ain't no one around that can farm 750 acres themselves. etc.)

I'm all for the death tax. As long as it applies to everyone, equally.

hmmm Lets see I have only been smashing one woman for the last 37+ years. The last movie I went and saw was The Passion, The only bar I go to any more is a local one that charges $2.00 per beer and I am only there once or twice a week.

Dow jumps 250 points to record as Wall Street cheers Senate passing tax bill

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/04/us-stock-futures-dow-data-tax-plan-opec-politics-on-the-agenda.html

Can't wait to pay taxes on these profits!

well then, I don't know why you guys are complaining all the time. sounds like the life. sheesh

No guarantees that everyone in the middle class will get a tax cut. Most likely many of the elderly and nearly 25% of middle class tax payers will see a tax increase of roughly 10% in their taxes. Enjoy suckers. I'm turning my profession into a pass through business ASAP.

Why do you think a pass through business will save you?

I can channel my biz profits through my personal salary at 20% instead of the middle class rate of 25% for my tax bracket which is still an increase but the biz will get tax cut. All in all the middle class and the middle class business owners are so screwed as this stands right now.

Heard just this morning that Trump is suggesting on raising the corp tax to 22-25% so my plan may be moot. W'll see.

It's not going to work like that though. Go read about the 70/30 rule.

70% will be taxed as per normal
30% will be taxed at the lower rate.

They did it that way to try to stop people from incorporating themselves and game the system.

Yeah we're screwed. What a CluStEr ....

OOOpppsss

No one knows what effect this bill, when finally passed, will have on the economy. Everyone will think that they are getting screwed. And some may be right, and some not so right.

My guess is it won't have that much of an effect on the average taxpayer.

So you're saying we gotta pass the bill to see what's in it?

Isn't that the proper procedure in Washington since ObamaCare?

This is like saying "if I pour gas on my car throw a match on it, there's no telling what will happen".

We know what will happen - a brief uptick in the economy followed by a crash and stagnating wages. Remember "trickle down" economics? Kansas? Louisiana? We've done this. It doesn't work.

And you know, the GOP was always going to screw the people like this once they had the votes - but the Democrats messaging has been terrible. Embarrassing. This is on them, too, in a sense.

Like, for instance - a group that is pretty commonly reviled is young brats who inherit money and don't know the value of work of a dollar. All sides of the every spectrum don't respect them. They almost always end up being skill-less morons who contribute nothing to society (like the current president).

And yet I've heard 5-6 arguments in the last 3 days against the inheritance tax. There's popular arguments saying "it's unfair that some kid in a beanie with a lumberjack beard living in Williamsburg is getting taxed 40% on $6 million of his $17 million dollar inheritance!"

Like, how do you not combat that argument with complete ease?

I have never seen economics "trickle up", so trickling down is the only way our system will work. In a capitalist society is the only way the poor and downtrodden can succeed. They cannot succeed in any other system.

As for the estate tax, why should the government get tax money on assets that have already been taxed on multiple occasions? No reason. Just highway robbery as usual. Just because junior is an idiot and blows through daddy's estate is not the point.

In my humble opinion, there aren't nearly enough tax cuts in the bill.

This is laughably wrong. They money trickles into the Caymans. It doesn't trickle down. There are zero examples of "trickle down" working and dozens of them cratering economies.

A man who needs 200,000 employees doesn't hire another 100,000 just because when he gets a windfall.



Because sick people who work 40 hours a week can't afford health care, and we need public works project and our government is deeply in debt, and if a dumbass rapist ogre like Donald Trump who has contributed nothing to society can't make a $250 million inheritance with $11 million untaxed and $239 million taxed at 40% work for him in life, that's his problem.

PDF you need to read everything Milton Friedman has written.

I have.

Next to none of his theories work in practice.

Name me one historical instance where "trickle down" economics worked.

That's his problem? Yup. It's also his money.

(and that goes for anyone that gets hit by the estate tax)

What makes the gov't. think they should get 40% of someones estate when they die? You know, the property, the assets, etc, that have already been paid for, and the taxes on said items have been paid (in the case of property taxes, it's an ongoing tax)

Why is ANY of that the gov't.s?

It's his dad's money. And his dad's dead.

He interited $11 million clean and $239 million taxed at 40%. He didn't lift a finger for it.

Explain to me how that's unfair.

Also...in the specific instance of Trump - he took that money and lost it to the Japanese, screwing over every hardworking American in his path. Maybe it's antecdotal, but how is that better than sinking the money into programs so people like GM or my mother or whoever doesn't have to lose their sanity because they get cancer?



Do you think KKK member Fred Trump could've earned that money if he lived in Haiti? Can you think of anything in his lifetime (World War II, maybe?) that the government did to open the door for him to earn that money?

Don't get me wrong...the government is a broken institution that uses our tax dollars to bomb brown civilians, but on the surface of merit, yes, I think that's completely fair.

1986 tax act. Revolutionized the USA.

That's laughably wrong. C'mon, man.

People took that money and used it to outsource manufacturing. Wages stagnated. It was literally the birth of offshore accounts. Look at any chart where wealth disparity and wage stagnation begin. The deficit rocketed. Reagan had to raise taxes, what, a year later?

The '86 tax act is the diamond jewel argument *against* trickle down. The dot com bubble came along and propped up a cratering economy, and we've been living off tech and housing bubbles ever since.

The only legit success of the '86 bill is that we outspent the USSR in a manufactured arms race - but we didn't even need to, because they were already rotted further than we thought.

So, the will made it his money.
Neither did the gov't, so why would they get 40%?


I'm not in favor of the death tax, at all, unless it is applied equally across the board, no limits.

Why is it of your concern if someone inherits a dollar, or 100 million dollars? The taxes were paid on it.

Plain and simple, it's a money redistribution ploy. And the money isn't going to help the poor people, it's going to the gov't.

And, this isn't only about Trump.

with reagan's tax plan, the national debt tripled.

reagan raised taxes 11 times.

the annual deficit went from 2.7% of the gdp under carter to 4.2% of the gdp under reagan.

due to the deficits, the US went from the largest credit in the world to the largest debtor.

for people that claim to care about the debt, they sure don't like bringing this up.

No politician cares about the debt. They may say they do but they do not.

i agree.

but if we are going in debt, i rather the people benefit from it through healthcare, infrastructure, and education rather than trickle down economics, increased military spending and endless wars.

I think we may disagree some philosophically. If going into debt, I prefer it to be on keeping US citizens safe. That is the #1 responsibility of our government. Infrastructure I get and that is needed, no doubt. Our bad education system is not a problem of money, in my opinion. I do believe that cuts in SS , Medicare, etc. is not the right thing.

i disagree.

overall, i feel that this country oversells the "safety" aspect, which has led to disgusting situations such as the Patriot act or what the NSA was revealed to be doing thanks to Snowden's whistleblowing.

our military industrial complex allows the pentagon and government to create enemies when none exist. fear is the biggest seller in America, it's the biggest money maker.

we could halt increases to the military budget for the next 10 years and still outspend the next 6-8 countries combined.

we are the safest country on the planet when it comes to foreign threats. we are more of a threat to each other than any foreign enemy.

but yea we do differ philosophically. you lean toward the realism school of thought, i lean toward the liberalism school of thought.

You mean the realism that Aristotle is the father of?

I'll take that.

no, in the international relations school of thought.

there's philosophical realism and political realism, and a bunch of sub-genres under those.

Partially perhaps, but I would not pigeon hole me like that.

The government absolutely did do far more than KKK member Fred Trump and his idiot kid. '

I laid this out specifically:

And I laid out specifically that the death tax isn't about Trump. Yet you keep harping on him.

The death tax is about people - many of them rich in land, not necessarily income.

You want to make it about trump, because it fits your negative agenda. And negative is what you are.

How about that family farm?

How about you tossing 40% to the gov't. right now, so sick people can get help? Oh, you wouldn't do it, and the money doesn't go to sick people anyway.

I did specifically said it was antecdotal.

Look up the word antecdotal, then re-read our discussion.

My point still remains.

It's not "unfair" that a dolt gets taxed after their first $11 million inheritance

Talking down to me again, eh? That's your specialty, I know.

Oh, hey, I don't even need to look up the word, I know what it means.

The death tax isn't about trump. Period.

I talk down to you constantly. You constantly make insanely dumb arguments.

Am I supposed to pretend they're not?

I Also constantly say "arch, you're smarter than this...are you really gonna take 40's side?"

Your response is always disappointing.

The death tax is You arguing that it's unfair that a kid shouldn't be taxed after $12 million of money they never earned

(Psst...your argument is the coastal elite one)

Stop putting words in my mouth, you're a fake.

My argument is the money was earned by someone, and the taxes were paid on it. Who the hell is the gov't. to step in and take 40% of it when someone dies?

It's a pretty basic point. One you can't see, obviously.

The death tax is very immaterial when it comes to tax revenue collected by the government. It is all about principal. I cannot understand how one thinks a person's hard earned earned money should not be able to be passed down to an heir tax free to the heir (remember all this money has already been taxed, probably multiple times). Why anyone thinks the government should get any of this money is mind boggling.