DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kizer Rnd 5

This is your post after the edits? The original must have been a doozy.

Hogan has far better instincts than kizer. Kizer has no touch or accuracy. I would take Hogan over Kizer any day!!!!

He was up and down today, but I don't think he was nearly as bad as some people are saying.

He made some big time throws.

after watching wentz tonight....i see some of the same mistakes kizer has.

high misses and he just fumbled the ball going into the endzone for a touchback. thats brownie all the way

Hogan must have started dating Hue's daughter or something.

He's never even active anymore and Kessler is not a professional QB.

Makes no sense to me.

He STB during his lone opportunity. He ain't getting another voluntarily.

Kessler STB every time he's on the field.

Hogan had one opportunity. Considering Kessler's ineptness that could earn Hogan at least one more try.

Too busy working on Kizer's ineptness. Not enough time for Hogan's.

From the results I figured they must not be working on him at all. Just call enough pass plays and eventually he'll come around.

I don't know... at times it looks like his ineptitude is definitely improving.

Hey VERS serious question .....Whats your take on Riley Fergason

bonefish, I cannot help but wonder if we pick a qb at 1 and 10-12 games in he is going thru the rookie struggles all rookie qbs go thru will we proclaim him a bust and move on to the next draft for another one. Somewhere along the line development needs to be allowed to happen.

Sorry to jump in here but I'll add my two cents. I think its more about his accuracy, and his wild inconsistency. I don't hear anyone complaining about his growing pains (INTs, pre-post reads, holding onto the ball too long, getting in and out of the huddle, command of the system, etc.) because I think most of us expect those issues. It's consistently missing the wide open receivers that has me concerned. JMHO

Edit: I'll say that maybe he can overcome some of that if he "slows down". Many of his inaccurate throws look rushed to me. He doesn't get set correctly and he hurries the throw. That's one possibility that could be overcome and corrected. I'd like to know what some of the other posters think about that.

Will he be able to hit the broad side of a barn with any consistency?

Probably not even from the inside!

I'll never criticize the decision to draft Kizer. I'm a fan of the low-risk, high reward moves, and arguing with the benefit of hindsight is dumb, imo. Beat your chest with the "I told you so" posts, but just call it what it is.

That said, I do criticize letting go of our vet QBs. This goes back to McCown. Granted, part of this is hindsight talking with the season he's having, but it more has to do with McCown being the perfect bridge QB. The guy is fairly competent, is a super class guy, and knows his role in the org. I do think that having McCown would've been very beneficial for Kizer.

As for Kizer... ugh. I don't think he should be cut or anything, but the guy is not ready... what many said at the beginning of the season. I'm glad he hasn't been knocked out for the season yet, and I hope that continues. The game experience he's gotten has probably been a positive for his development, so that is probably going to help him for next year. That being said, we'd be absolutely insane to go into next season without at least 1 additional legit QB added to the roster. We have to at least add a big-time FA or a top pick QB.

The current perception of Kizer is exactly the reason why many didn't want him to start.

This 2017 Browns team lacked the talent for any QB to be productive.

Look at McKown now vs McKown with Jets. A veteran journeyman like McKown didn't magically improve.

Talent matters.

Another reason many didn't want him to start was his inexperience.

Rookie QBs have their ups and downs that are just natural parts of the process.
Grooming a rookie QB in normal circumstances requires patience.

But a raw rookie QB on this team requires and deserves more patience.

But it's hard for fans to be discerning and factor in the current set of circumstances; it easier to say he's a bust.

Hue Jackson believes in DeShone Kizer but admits 'we can't have too many good QBs on this team'

Updated 3:24 PM; Posted 3:19 PM

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/12/hue_jackson_believes_in_deshon.html


By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com

BEREA, Ohio -- Browns coach Hue Jackson acknowledged Monday afternoon that the Browns might have to draft a quarterback with their top pick even though he still believes DeShone Kizer can win in the NFL.

"We can't have too many good quarterbacks on this football team,'' said Jackson.

He said quarterbacks are assets and that the Browns have to do whatever they can to solve their quarterback problem even as they continue to develop Kizer.

It means the Browns will continue to take a hard look at the 2018 quarterback class, including UCLA's Josh Rosen and USC's Sam Darnold, who may opt to stay in school.

If the draft were tomorrow, the Browns would have the No. 1 pick, and the No. 8 pick from the Houston Texans after the teams' 2017 trade.

Jackson said he hasn't backed off his statements that Kizer can be the Browns' QB of the future despite the fact he's 0-10 this season and last in the NFL with a 58.1 rating. He's also one of only five QB with a completion percentage in the 50s.

More to come soon.

we can all read between the lines on that one....

This is why we wanted McCarron, right? Because Kizer's precision, judgment, ball protection, and yadayadayada are all improving. He misses people he should not, he throws into a bunch of doubling yesterday, strip sacks anyone? By now in the season SOME of that should be less. Tired of preachy interviews, predictable repetitions, etc.

I do not care who takes blame in a loss as if it matters. Losing does. Snappy noise over how bad you feel do not.

Win one without him. I dare you.

I hope we sign a veteran, keep Kizer, and draft a QB at #1. (unless we sigh Cousins, as he would immediately become our franchise QB)

WE need as much capability at the position as possible. May the best QB win.

We get the QB spot settles, and this could be a really fast turn-around.

The real question I have (and I doubt we'll get a definitive answer from the board but I think it's a worthwhile topic), is whether the experience Kizer has received on the field so far this season has been a positive or a negative?

Remembering back to last offseason, the one thing I can say that I'm very happy about is the fact that Kizer has remained mostly healthy all year. How many QB injuries/changes were we up to at this point last year? Nothing to brag about, but an improvement nonetheless.

Anyways... Kizer and this offense this season has been an abomination. I don't really think that's debatable, but the root cause of the poor performance certainly is. There's no substitute for game experience, but if all of that experience is negative, at what point does trotting him out there do more to hurt his development than help? Honest question.

I know Hue has had some head scratching calls this year, I think as a whole, all nfl coaches have them, some of them are mitigated by having playmakers executing well, and exacerbated by poor players not executing. I tend to think that Hue is the victim of the latter. Hard to tell how much Hue is being held back by not having anything at the QB position. It's the only argument I have for keeping Hue. I think until you get something serviceable at QB you can't really hang too much of it on Hue, but on the flip, I think his playcalling and inability to stick with the run hurts his case.

I agree. I also think being frustrated can also affect playcalling. When nothing works, you just start calling any darn thing.

A negative, but at least the "throw him out there and see what he can do!" guys get to see that. They'll still want to do it to the next QB that we draft however.

He's learned some good things but he's reinforced some bad habits. His offseason effort will determine if he can overcome the bad habits.

I was numb as I watched this game. I can't remember ever feeling that.

I'm all for signing a veteran QB and even drafting another QB....I wouldn't use a 1st round pick but I agree about signing and drafting QBs.

I think the speed of the turn around is linked as much to the talent to support the talent and coaching surrounding the QB.

Its hard to say. The experience playing this year has already given Kizer a negative perception and may already place him 1 foot (or more) out the door. In that respect his season has not been a good experience for him.

However; Kizer will likely never have to play on a less talented team then he did during the 1st 12 weeks of his NFL career. I view this season as if Kizer has been working out with ankle weights. He will enter next season as better QB then this year and will hopefully have better talent and coaching around him. (assuming an upgrade/addition to the offensive coaching staff)


You have to hope that Kizer is tough enough and the offensive staff still supports and believes in him. Lets see how/if he bounces back next week and over the last slate of games.

I think Hue should return because of the talent or lack thereof on this team. It was gonna be hard to get production on offense with some of the failures in the personnel dept. Failures at WR and bridge QB especially. In a "passing league" failures in those areas are hard to overcome.

But, I believe Hue spread himself too thin and I think the coordination and playcalling on offense weren't optimal. To be clear though I am not saying that the playcalling is the main issue. Talent is the issue. But, just as other teams have looked at or changed their playcalling this season it makes sense that the Browns should have done the same. But, I saw/see no changes. In broadstrokes....imho the offense is still too focused on the deep/intermediate passing game. Still too focused on the passing over the run game. Not focused enough on easy completions. etc...

What if Hue is just a mediocre coach, or an average one at best?

For sure there is much more evidence to support the idea that he is in fact mediocre than a superior HC capable of winning a SB.

There is no reason to be less demanding of an HC, than you are of a QB. So yes Kizer has showed us that he probably isn't the Qb of the future, but unlike Hue, Kizer has top notch physical arguments that make the bet worth while. Hue has nothing going for him....

That would be a fair conclusion IF you believe the talent level of the current personnel on the Browns warranted much better performance.

I don't believe it does...maybe you do?

I am not less demanding on Hue. I'm consistent.

Kizer may have shown YOU that he probably isn't the QB not me. How am I to assess whether or not he is the guy after this small sample size during a season when he shouldn't have been starting but the personnel at the QB position dictated he start? I also know that the talent level on offense wasn't good enough to support a veteran QB playing well so how much less a rookie who by all reports shouldn't have been starting?

I could agree with your viewpoint if I believed that the talent level is fine and that Hue and Kizer are the main factors holding the offense/team back.

I am not sure Kizer has the mental ability to match his physical ability. He just doesn't seem to see the field well or process fast enough. He definitely isn't accurate enough at this point.

You take the best QB in the draft and don't look back IMHO. IF Kizer works out you can always make a trade later.

But a young mobile QB with a strong arm....

If he can get it right, he would be one of a kind.

Sure worth to take a risk, IMHO. You just have to sit him for 2 3 seasons and see how he pans out...

I'm with you on the drafting a new QB, but please don't throw away Kizer.... we don't need to.

Would you be interested in discussion Kizer's play in more detail? (Honest question) I know some like to post their opinions as fact and keep it moving. And if that's the case that's fine...but I was curious what you mean by seeing the field well.

Playing 'in rhythm' is the area I would like to see Kizer improve. When a QB gets to the top of their drop I want to see the ball come out. And if the ball doesn't come out I want to see them get to their next progression with a sense of urgency and with command in the pocket. i.e Keep their feet alive, don't drift, if need be hitch-reset then throw.

All of which sounds easy enough on paper but much more difficult when a QB gets to the top of their drop and the #1 option isn't open. Or the route depth is so great that the pocket begins to collapse before the WRs finish their routes. Or the QB never gets into a sense of rhythm because the WRs are constantly rotating in and out of practice and games and the QB never really builds a rapport for where/how a given receiver is going to run a given route on a given play or even knowing which receiver is going to be in the game on a given route on a given play. There is nothing worse then calling a play and knowing where the receiver is supposed to be then getting to the top of your drop and that receiver not being there.

Kizer can make some incredible throws when his reads are well defined and playcall/receivers get open. Even back in college. When throwing from play-action he was great. When the he threw the ball on rhythm at the top of his drop very few QBs can match his arm.

But when things don't line-up for Kizer or any rookie QB the whole process suffers. Accuracy suffers. Decision making suffers. Poise suffers. Imho the other factors around Kizer fail more often then on most other NFL teams which makes it much harder for him to function.

Kizer has certainly missed some throws he should hit. Especially last sunday. But when looking at the whole of his season with the talent that he's had around him I can't blame it all on him.

Hue Jackson tries to buck up DeShone Kizer

by Thomas Moore

Cleveland Browns head coach Hue Jackson says he supports rookie quarterback DeShone Kizer. If only Jackson’s actions backed up his words.

It has not been the best of years for Cleveland Browns rookie quarterback DeShone Kizer.

Kizer is 35th in a 32-team league in completion percentage, 34th in yards per attempt, 31st in touchdown passes and tops in interceptions despite being benched at halftime of two games and being benched for the entirety of a third game.

Kizer allegedly has the support of his head coach Hue Jackson, who spoke on Monday about the importance of Kizer not getting down about being the quarterback of an 0-12 team, according to clevelandbrowns.com:

“When I saw his face today, he was down. But I told him in front of the whole offensive football team, we’re not doing that. We’re not going to get down.”

It’s nice that Jackson has his quarterback’s back. Of course, it would also help if Jackson, in his role as offensive coordinator, would build a game plan that supported his rookie quarterback a bit better, perhaps one that did not task him with throwing the ball an average of 34.5 times a game.

It would probably help Kizer’s confidence a bit if his head coach:

was not leaking to the media how he was texting Houston Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson on the day of the 2017 NFL Draft.

was not actively trying to convince the Browns to trade for Cincinnati Bengals backup quarterback A.J. McCarron

was not rushing to McCarron to give him a giant bear hug during pregame warmups after the trade fell through.

was not leaking to the media about how he absolutely wanted the Browns to select quarterback Carson Wentz in the 2016 NFL Draft.

was not expressing disappointment that he received a “chilly reception” from Wentz prior to the 2016 season opener against the Philadelphia Eagles.

was not texting his plans for the game to a national reporter on the morning of the game against the Los Angeles Chargers.

But, sure, no reason for Kizer to get down. Jackson has his back 100 percent.

Link




WTF is this?! I can't find anything else on this. Has anyone heard or read any more about this, or is it fake news?

i didn't hear about that either.

Also, it was Watson who talked about the text on draft day. Hue didn't leak that.

this read like a hit piece, nothing more.

I agree, though this is true:

"...it would also help if Jackson, in his role as offensive coordinator, would build a game plan that supported his rookie quarterback a bit better, perhaps one that did not task him with throwing the ball an average of 34.5 times a game."