DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Browns Front Office...cont....

Device,
First, there is NOT alot of talent on this team. There is SOME talent in SOME places on this team but not alot!! Second, JG coming out of rehab made out WR group ALOT better which shows how [censored] poor it that group is. Add that along with a rookie QB with accuracy issues = alot of missed opportunities and losing.

Memphis and Device,
How the hell can Brian Baldinger make that quote THEN on his own twitter feed, show 3 other clips of the Browns offense line getting USED!!!!.. That makes NO sense!!! Please go over to Baldy's twitter feed and look at those breakdowns!!.. And then he says there is enough talent!!.. Really!!

Where it has gone wrong, what's next for NFL teams out of playoff race

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/260353/whats-next-for-nfl-teams-out-of-playoff-race#8

Cleveland Browns

What has gone wrong this season? What didn't go wrong? The Browns are still searching for certainty at quarterback, lack depth throughout the roster, are overwhelmed by youth and inexperience and have significant needs at receiver and the secondary. Even vice president of football operations Sashi Brown admitted he has not given the roster enough talent to win consistently. Season-ending injuries to LT Joe Thomas, LB Jamie Collins and DE Emmanuel Ogbah took away the few high-level players on the roster. The Browns have too many needs at too many important positions to win a single game in the NFL, much less contend for a division title or the playoffs.

What needs to happen in offseason? The Browns have five picks in the first two rounds of the 2018 draft, including (likely) the first overall selection. They also will have more than enough salary-cap space to sign a few more free agents. They hope that influx of talent, combined with what is on the roster, will give the team enough foundation to show real progress in 2018, not merely express happy words about it. The key: making the right picks. The Browns can't afford any more mistakes like they made when they passed on Carson Wentz and signed Kenny Britt. Player evaluation has to improve.

Is a coaching change the answer? Only if the roster gets better by the team hitting on those draft picks. It's tough to imagine how Browns owner Jimmy Haslam sells a coach who has one win in 28 games. But the only way a coaching change would matter is if Paul Brown were reincarnated to lead the team. This team's biggest issue isn't coaching; it's a significant lack of talent up and down the roster. If you want to judge Hue Jackson by his record, have at it. He owns it. But until he has an actual and complete roster, it's tough to see what he can do. Yes, there have been questionable in-game decisions, but there are very few NFL games without something that can be second-guessed. It would have taken a miracle worker to turn this season's team into a winner. -- Pat McManamon

I agree w/this article.

I do want to say that I hope all parties retain their jobs. We have a shot to turn things around.

I believe they are all learning as they go, if they learn from mistakes and tweek the plan as needed we should start seeing progress as in wins in 2018.

We are finally in agreement, Vambo.

Agree with this article too. The one thing I would like to add is yes, we are lacking talent at some positions but there is talent on this team it's just young, inexperienced and one could say raw. The positions where we need upgrading can be done with the next draft and FA period. I would retain our coaches and FO and if anything hire a consultant to help. We can't mess up the upcoming draft.

Once again ... We were ALL told up front.. The first couple years will be PAINFUL.. We will be a bad team. We were all on board. We knew.. We may not have realized just how bad PAINFUL meant.. but we knew. After all .. we were the Browns.. We had been through PAINFUL years many many many times. No Problem. WE committed to the plan. We knew that once the plan started it would be impossible to switch horses mid-stream. Even if we could switch horses midstream, it will make little to no difference because the process has started and must be played out. So stick with the one who brought you... and hang on for the ride.

There's enough talent on this team not to be 0-12.

I believe you're interpreting wrong...

yea I can agree with that.

Better QB and WR Play and we should have at least 4 wins by now if not 5

I agree with this. I think there is plenty of blame to go around but the sad truth is we were completely void of talent after this FO finished cleaning house. Next year might get us to a few wins but I bet were looking at three more seasons before we can compete week in and week out.

The worst thing we can do at this point is blow it up. I'd like to see Manning come in or another strong Football guy to take on a FO role providing that POV. Other than that, keep everyone until the roster has some real talent in all positions. IMHO about half our starters should be backups.

Agreed. I think what really set me off this week was the Browns played the 4pm game. I sat in my lounge room with the TV on NFL Redzone and my laptop switching back and forth between a few games.

I kept watching these play designs that were getting receivers open, plays that I couldn't anticipate what was coming, plays that were generating space for running backs, watching the way other teams go about their business on Sunday in such cohesive, precise technique. Opposition defenses make is such a struggle, then Phil Rivers goes out and puts like 400 yards on our defense with minimal effort because we're incapable of plays in which the receivers, running backs and tight ends are all at some level of being reasonably covered.

I don't normally key in on so many games at once, but that day I did, and it was shocking to go from those teams to ours. Comparatively, we are mind-numbingly sloppy. And I watched Bears/49ers. I'm not hearing that we don't have talent. There is no way our team should be looking so lost compared to teams that themselves aren't exactly boasting a litany of talent.

I understand the call for patience, and I want to believe it pays off, but I can't understand just why our team looks so much damn worse than other teams when there is no valid case that all these issues can be based on talent alone.

There is a serious issue with regards to our coaching. Not just from a schematic point, but from the way our players seem to be so much worse coached than players around the league who aren't consistently blowing their assignments or dropping their fundamentals.

Your claims about poor schematics and predictability are pure hogwash. Please stop fabricating things in order to further your agenda.

Your keyboard should give you an electric shock whenever YOU accuse someone of posting with an agenda/bias.

BDU just laid out a detailed, thought-provoking post. Instead of disputing it with your own opinion, you once-again whine that he is lying and has an agenda. Ridiculous.

The claims of Hue being poor schematically really gets to me.

This is from an article when he was hired in Cleveland:



And this from Haslam:




Fast forward to less than 2 years later and people are claiming that Hue is poor schematically and is too predictable.

Hogwash!

Hue is not perfect, but some of these claims are preposterous.

You're quoting Haslem as proof that someone has a great offensive mind?

Really?

The agenda has no bounds apparently.

I really enjoyed the sentiment of that article

Had me day dreaming - about a Manning brother reunion - (assume #1 QB Drafted ) Eli on a two year deal where he can bring the new guy along, Peyton as part owner and football czar - the manning name would help balance out the stench of the current owner.

I think Hue has proven to be a solid Offensive coach.

I do agree with many of our posters that think he is too big play happy.
Many times going for a home run on 2nd and 9, instead of dialing up a solid 4 yard play that puts us in a 3rd and manageable rather than 3rd and looooong. This in my opinion is where he is unfortunately the most consistent. On top of that, his reluctance to commit to the run gives us no chance to utilize play-action plays which I love to see.

I also feel that his play calling and lack of imagination on short yardage plays is crushing. Please see the Jets game. I was shocked to see us convert on 4th and 1 against the Bengals, not so much to see us get tackled for a loss against the Chargers.

I have no doubt that with improved talent at WR and a NFL ready QB many of his faults would not be as glaring, but the reality is he needs to understand the talent he has and scheme to that talent. By no means should he scrap his playbook, but it should be adjusted considering he had Kessler and Kizer as his QB's throughout most of his 2 years.

Once again, as has been said and agreed upon by many posters, QB is the most important position in the NFL, Kizer was not ready for what he has been asked to do. PERIOD.

Again we can not be surprised by the lack of wins the last 2 years when it was stated that we would struggle for two years by our FO. I feel we only gave away the Jets game and that we were fortunate to be in the last handful of games heading into the fourth quarter. Fortunate because of our QB as well as missing 3 of our 5 best players not because of Hue Jackson.

This week we play a Packers team that also has a QB issue. Hundley has shown flashes but he has been in the league for three years. IMO the packers are not that great of a team, however when you have a top 5 QB leading the troops everything is elevated across the board. Very few teams have the depth to maintain success without a good QB. The Packers are no different.

We can win this game and we can beat Chicago. Why are these teams beatable??? because their QB is not much better than ours. Jon Fox is a solid coach with a Sb victory as well as another SB appearance. He is on the hot seat b/c he does not have a proven QB. McCarthy is a great coach who looks barely formidable without Rogers.

Once again, there are many reasons for 1-27, but at the top of the list is suspect QB play as well as our D's inability to stop anyone on 3rd down. Williams has proven in this league to be a damn good DC, but I have no idea what he is doing lining up our safeties in Toledo. Has Peppers once been brought up in the box? I don't know the answer, but if he has it has not been anywhere near the amount of plays it should be. Granted, we have not given up many home run plays but opponents have singled up and down the field with ease too often.

Bottom line we have built a pretty good foundation of young players who have flashed potential, but we need a QB and FS bad!

At this point I will be shocked if Peyton wants anything to do with Haslam.

Device, one of the big reasons we are 0-12 with the talent we have is because mistakes made at crucial times like when we are in the red zone. Turnovers, penalties, missing open receivers etc. That's not so much talent it's inexperienceand it happens way to often. JMO

And note the last part of the write-up: " If the Giants were to roll the dice, they would likely need a multi-man front office power structure with a clearly-defined role for McCloughan."

That make me think McCloughan might be a good addition if Haslam doesn't blow everything up again.

That's an interesting memory of yours, since I liked Wentz better than Goff myself. I wasn't a fan of taking him at #2, but then again neither were you Vers, were you? Despite your vow of keeping my name out of your mouth, this is the second time in 24 hours that you just can't seem to help yourself. Your urge to muck rake is too great.

So I suggest that you reflect on this moment and decide if referring to me, alluding to me, or outright naming me is worth it to you because I am more than willing to finish whatever you want to start.

The head coach is also not innocent of these mistakes...

Agreed. Hue has made some questionable moves no doubt. I feel he has because he has too much on his plate. We need an OC. If they keep Hue, and I feel we should, I would strongly urge him to hire an OC. JMO

Hue is horrible. Has no business coaching an NFL team. Those two boxes above are false!!! The Bengals or the Raiders never did anything with this guy calling the shots. Jimmy got hoodwinked. The poor Browns fans got hoodwinked by this pretender. He is 95% of the problem with this 1-27 record. Predictable and in the way of our success. It's all about Hue. He wants to be a head coach. Give me a break!!!

Shon Coleman destroys NFL official on fumble
The NFL official got caught up in a mad dash for the football.

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-brow...umble-111835783








Video on webpage.

best block he's made all season.

Block in the back. Would have been a penalty.

wells he's been getting penalized at a pro-bowl level so.

Cleveland has a two-game lead for the No. 1 draft pick in 2018. What should the Browns do with it?

Graziano: I think their best bet is to trade down, pick up some extra picks and then watch as the quarterback who gets taken in that spot becomes a Rookie of the Year and/or MVP candidate for the team with which they made the trade. Haha. No, of course I'm kidding. Cleveland's top three options are: (1) take a quarterback; (2) take a quarterback; (3) take a dang quarterback.

Kimes: I don't hate the idea of spending some of their hefty cap space on a free agent, but I don't love the options. The Browns should draft a quarterback and then, with Hue Jackson likely headed out the door, pick up a coach who can shepherd the rookie the way Sean McVay has guided Jared Goff. (Easier said than done, I know.)

Schatz: If the Browns feel there's a player at another position worth the No. 1 pick, I have no problem with them waiting until the Houston pick (at No. 10) to take a quarterback. But Cleveland has to take a quarterback with one of the two picks. And who else would be worth that No. 1 pick anyway? Bradley Chubb to bookend with Myles Garrett, maybe? The analytical Browns are not taking Saquon Barkley at No. 1.

Sando: My three-step plan would include: (1) offering the pick to the Bengals for AJ McCarron without communicating the offer to the league office; (2) Investing part of Brock Osweiler's salary offset in an ESPN Insider subscription; or (3) using the first pick for whichever quarterback appears most frequently atop the Insider mock drafts.

Yates: Take. A. Quarterback.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21679...on-rodgers-more

Problem is, Sashi likes to trade down and pass on franchise qb's.

One of the PFF guys just put up this interesting statistic -

On the season, when opponents run right (D left - Ogbah lines up 94% of run snaps)
W/ Ogbah: 2.41 ypc (zone 2.18)
W/o Ogbah: 4.55 ypc (zone 4.40)

I'll say this: there is no doubt this is also impacted by Jamie Collins being injured. However, Emmanuel Ogbah has been such a significant loss for us. He was a fantastic selection by the front office. We miss him.

I would not look at the two previous drafts as indicator of what to expect in the upcoming one. They have been very clear and straightforward that those first couple of drafts were about building draft capital, because having 10 picks gives you twice as many chances to get one right as five picks. It has been solid reasoning.

They've also been very clear in stating that they did that then because that's what they needed, but that there will be a time when they will turn two picks into one in order to move up. I would expect to begin seeing that change in behavior this year.

Expect a QB at 1, don't be shocked to see us stand pat at 10 (or wherever Houston picks) unless someone throws a 2019 1st at us to trade down from there.

Do not be shocked if there is yet another trade up into the 1st to give us a 3rd 1st rounder two years in a row.

I'm sorry but that's a bunch of malarkey. Real NFL teams take the best QB available until they hit on one. They always keep a veteran QB as starter/backup to mentor the young QB's and WR's. The new Browns have never done that. Our brilliant FO release's them all the time. Hence we're perpetual losers.

When exactly were you certain Wentz was going to be a franchise QB? And you obviously were banging the drum all off season for Watson, right? GMAB.

Hey, I guess you're right. A guy can have 11 penalties called against him in 12 games and he's great!

lmfao