DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kizer Rnd 5

If Hue is always throwing his players under the bus, why to the players like him, respect him, and play hard for him?

Sorry it took me so long to respond here ... been busy and wanted this to be a decent response ... haven’t read anyone else’s response ... i have lots of catching up to do on the thread .. now worries if u dont want to comment on what i’m About to say ... you guys have prolly moved past this ... anyhow ... heres what i see ... and i’ll Stick strictly to the route trees ... won’t mention pre and post snap reads by the QB ...

X is going to run the “slant” depending on if theres safety help and/or how deep the CB is post snap ... if theres safety help or the CB plays off he will run one of the “comebacks” with the direction depending on where the cb is or the LBer drops if its a zone ...

Z is going to run a “go” route based on weather theres safety help or not over there ... if theres safety help he’ll run one of the “comeback outs” ...

If there is safety help on that side ... and Z runs the “comeback” routes ...

F will run the “ deep sideline slant” ... Y will have the option to run one of the “outs” to flood the zone ... if its man to man with safety help he can run the “in” with man to man coverage ...

F will run one of the “short outs” if theres no safety help and Y will run the “in” ..

I’m sure i f’d that all up ... but thats what i see .. *L* ...

Looking forward to reading the rest of the thread .. i’m Sure i’ll Have questions ..

Some people are more concerned about career numbers than rookie numbers.

Cool videos ... thanks ...

Isn’t it Hues job to design plays that the inexperienced guys can run? ...

Don’t u take it a step at a time ...

In Chicago they started Mitch off with a lot of rollouts and half field reads .. also a lot of plays designed to get the ball out quick ... now there hardly ever rolling him out and hes throwing the ball down the field more ...

They spoon fed him ... IMO they did it the right way with their rookie ... i think now there handcuffing him ...

Hue gave Kizer and the inexperienced guys to much IMO in the beggining of the season ... starting with the Minni game he scaled things way back ... now he’s building on that ...

IMO Hue started off with route trees and reads like u just showed ... i think he scaled it way back and made things a lot easier for Kizer and the inexperienced WR’s .. now hes adding more in every week ...

...

Nice Willie ...

See Dak over the last 5 weeks since his OL’s had multiple injuries and no Zeke the last 3 or 4 ...

But thats not Kizer’s problem my friend ... hes INNACURATE as hell ...

Hopefully it is mechanical and we can solve it over the off season .... its one of the reasons I didn’t want him to start this year .. your not going to FIX MECHANICS during the season ...

U need REPS , REPS and more REPS and they need to be ingrained w/o being thrown into the fire .. your going to revert back to bad habits if the NEW MOTION is not engrained and may lead memory throws if your thrown into the fire to soon ...

nfl ready means he can start day one.

so my question is valid.

Some peope judge QB's by their skill set and abilities. Some people believe that stats and starts surrounding them are why they get the attention. In some cases that's true, but I look at the skill set of the QB and not his situation.

I guess that depends on your point of view. What were the stats of Wentz and Goff in their rookie years? Not so good, huh?

What about Peyton Manning? Did Andrew Luck or Peyton have better stats than RG3's rookie season? Both of those guys were NFL ready.

Now if you believe that judging QB's depends on their rookie year is the avenue to follow, it's my opinion that your deduction is extremely flawed.

jc

I just now realized that I've never seen Kizer complete a roll out pass.

Does he not have this skill?

Because they basically never call that play. And the only time he ever rolls out is due to pressure.

I don't know if Kizer will become a good QB. No one does at this point. I do know this. A quarterbacks rookies season doesn't mean a thing. Think it does? Think you can tell right now about Kizer?

Peyton Manning threw TWENTY-EIGHT interceptions his first season. He had Marshall Faulk AND Marvin Harrison on his team. They won 3 games. If he had been playing here how many of you would have run him out of town? Insisted he was a bust?

Of course, Kizer may never amount to anything. But saying you know for a fact he is a bust makes no sense. Sometimes it takes a couple years for a QB to break through and finally GET it.

I have ZERO problems with taking a QB at the top of the upcoming draft. That is why I hope we don't win a game. Having the first pick is important to get the QB we want. That doesn't mean we are writing off Kizer. Nothing wrong with having as many young QB's on the team as possible. Dallas spent two first on QB's before they took off in the 90's Aikman and Walsh. They chose Aikman and traded Walsh after a couple years. Just don't write off a young amn that seems to really want to succeed. Kizer may surprise us all.

you sure dude manage to make a whole lot of assumptions with "nfl ready".

when someone tells me <insert player> is nfl ready, that means to me that he can come in, be a day one starter, and have good numbers from the very start of his career.

So sure, i think of Luck when i think NFL Ready.

but then that label has been attached to guys like Quinn.

and Robiskie.

so, when it comes to rookie QB's, when someone tells me they are nfl ready, then i take that as he will be a day one starter and lead the team to a decent record.

I don't think anyone can be sure about Kizer at this point. What I do know is the fourth QB drafted in any draft class has very low odds of success. I know second round QB's have very low odds of success.

With that said, sitting here with the #1 draft choice with a talented crop of QB's I think considering the above mentioned factors makes passing on a QB at #1 is much too great of a risk.

But Luck didn't and Peyton didn't. There are things you know an NFL ready QB can do that you simply don't know about the other QB's. There's certain things you know about a QB coming out of a pro system that you don't know about QB's coming from the spread.

What I believe that you don't seem to be including is that just because some tell you a QB is NFL ready doesn't mean he is. You know as well as I do that terms get thrown around too freely. I certainly never said that Quinn was NFL ready. If Quinn had been that good, he wouldn't have been there at #22 for us to draft.

The speed of the game is a huge transition for almost every rookie. Very few exceptions but there are some. What you do when you pass on an NFL ready QB verses a spread QB is leave a lot of questions unanswered that you had the answers to with an NFL ready QB.

If you'd like to make a wager PM me. I'm willing to bet you that if we pass on Rosen, he will be gone by the #3 pick.

because again, like my overall point, nfl ready seems to mean different things to different people.

and then combined that with the fact that there's no consensus on who that #1 QB is.

I certainly want Lamar over Rosen. There are people who want Rosen over Mayfield, there are people who want Mayfield over Lamar, and all the other perspectives.

Couch was suppose to be the more nfl ready QB over Mcnabb.

yea....

and what does him being gone by #3 mean to me? Bortles was gone by 3 and he sucks.

Where the hell did you ever hear that at!? lol He drew up plays in the dirt. That kid was nowhere close to NFL ready. Not even in the ballpark!

And you're right about there not being a consensus #1. That's because this class is a very talented QB class. When that happens, opinions will vary. In some classes it's because there isn't a QB who could be considered a #1 consensus. In this class it's because there are a few of them.

It's all about opinions at this juncture. We could easily see a better consensus form before the draft gets here.

You gotta admit, most NFL fans and sportswriters are still concentrating on this season. Unlike us who are always talking about the draft in december. Hell, sometimes November.

we're still on the nfl season, but other than Mayfield, the QB's entering the draft are gonna be in bowl games that don't really mean anything.

so we(browns fans and any other fans of trash teams this season) are already looking at their game tape and trying to see who's better.

never too early to start, especially if youre a fan of this team.

I certainly agree with you and you won't see me trash any of the better QB prospects. I can understand why people would like them and support them. So I'm not actually a Rosen or bust guy. I certainly support us selecting him because he has some weapons in his arsenal that are very rare. Post snap reads. Working from under center and going through quick progressions. A quick decision maker with a very quick release. I'm not saying that any of the others can't, but this is a combination that's rare and hard to find.

And those are questions we don't have an answer to with any of the others.

for me, it's nothing to do with his passing ability.

but he questions on his movement in the pocket, if he can extend plays, if he can feel the rush.

also, you have to wonder about his off the field problems. people act like it isn't a big deal, but i struggle to understand why when players literally rise or fall in the draft based on their off the field issues and questions of work ethic.

for example, Jay cutler has #1 overall talent.

but the draft is all about projecting where a player is gonna be in the future. if Rosen has Jay cutler issues, work ethic, and leadership problems, is he really worth the #1 overall?

those are legit questions.

so while ability from a pure passing standpoint and nothing else doesn't leave rosen with questions compared to everyone else, other criteria he certainly has a lot.

his injury history also can't be overlooked. i keep hearing how running QB's are dangerous, yet Rosen is a pure pocket passer who has a way longer injury history than Lamar and Mayfield.

I don't want to argue, but I think I need to make a couple of clarifications:

1. McNabb was far more NFL ready than Timid was. Timid didn't even have a play book in college. LOL....truth, bro. I hated that pick and I still rue the day we took him over McNabb. I still maintain we took him because we wanted a face [white] for the franchise. McNabb was a far better qb prospect.

2. Rosen is NFL ready because he has played in a Pro-Style offense and we have seen him make both pre and post-snap reads. We've seen him go through progressions. With other qbs, such as Kizer, we haven't seen and we have no idea if they can do it or not. Additionally, Rosen's mechanics are pristine. He can spin it like no one else in this draft. He is so freaking accurate and he gets guys YAC due to that accuracy.

He is pro-ready, Swish.

The only question on him is the character thing. NFL teams will be sure to delve deeply into that aspect of his game. I hope we hire Dorsey, because I think he is tough enough to handle stuff like that.

I'm hoping Rosen is just arrogant. That isn't very likable, but it's not a big deal like Manziel's issues were. LOL

GREAT question ...

He never did it at ND either ...

Ed.
Our WRs as a group have been bad.
But.
I know an inaccurate QB when I see one.

There are 6 QB's that could be in the first round conversation. Each one has some kind of flaw, but some of those flaws are minor. Not one guy is elite, but all are very good for prospects.

In my opinion the most NFL ready is Rosen. His mechanics are very, very, good. Of course, he wasn't liked by his teammates or even his high school coach and that does mean something.

I haven't watched enough film yet to pick any QB, but I can really see why there is a lack of consensus right now. Each one has a flaw.

I think the other question on Rosen is his ability to take a hit. He throws a beautiful ball (Especially the deep ball)but seems to have a glass jaw. Also, for any Qb, what is his work ethic? No implications. Just a question to ask about any Qb prospect we are looking at.

People question Lamar because of his thin frame but he never seems to take a big hit. My question on. He is dynamic and exciting. He has a strong arm and quick release. I question his accuracy but haven't seen him this year. Has he improved from last season?

Mayfield. In my mind as big or bigger issue with character than Rosen. Size, offense and lack of defense in the bog 12 are his issues. I hear he is a very hard worker and is clearly a leader. His players follow him. Good accuracy and cool under pressure.

Darnold. Should go back to school. Seems to be a leader. Cool under pressure but not to the extent of Mayfield. My biggest issue with him is his deep ball. "Always" seems under thrown . He gets away with it in college but I think in the NFL this is a problem.

I don't have a number one but would be fine with any of these 4 at number 1

Can you educate me on the "glass jaw" comment? I thought his OL sucked and he has been subjected to a lot of shots. Is that not true?

He gets hit a lot but also gets injured a lot. He has had several injuries. Off the top of my head he had the shoulder injury and the concussion. It also sounds like he left their last game because of a concussion though I don't know that it was ever called that.

Just seems like a lot of injuries in a college career

Having a "glass jaw" doesn't mean he doesn't get hit. It refers to his ability to take the hit.
Just my impression.

lol I think it was wentz...looking back I'm sure he is not happy we passed on him.

That's where you are flawed, son.

THIS IS FACT!

History dictates this.

Virtually every single top QB over the years, especially the highly touted ones have numerous things in common.

They are drafted by crap teams.
They had progressively better Completion % with each College year.
They had progressively better TD to INT ratios with each College year.

They hit the NFL and it ALL goes out the window their first year.

WHY?

Simply adjusting to the SPEED of the GAME and the excellerated defensive schemes of the likes they've never seen before.

Years 2 and 3 are when the GOOD ones begin to see those College Completion % and TD to INT ratios come back to them. They've adjusted to the speed of the game.

THAT is my single biggest concern with Kiser.

He was NEVER ACCURATE in College to begin with. And if he never becomes a bonafide Starting QB in this league, THAT will be the biggest reason. Accuracy.

I thought Kizer was 50/50 to start at ND if he stood ... i thought that was one of the big reasons he came out .... I WAS DEAD NUTS WRONG ...

Wimbush is HORRIBLE ... he is by far the MOST INNACURATE ND has ever had and its not even close ... hes less accurate than Zaire was .... and that guy coudn’t hit the broad side of a barn ....

As innacurate as Kizer is ... Wimbush makes him look like Johnny U ...

Hence why i led with ... I WAS DEAD NUTS WRONG ... i mis-led a lot of folks ... i had NO CLUE how wrong i was ....

He’s a better runner ... but Kizer’s no slouch ...

Last year Zaire was a GREAT RUNNER ...

Wimbush is a VERY GOOD RUNNER ..

Kizer is an above average runner ...

Amazingly enough bro ... Kizer is WAY MORE ACCURATE than both of them ...

If Kizer would have stood in school .. we’d be the best team in the country this year ...

I think Allen will fly up the board during workouts, the Senior Bowl & combine. He could end up ranked as high as #2 or #3 by the time the draft gets here. Coaches are going to love his upside and the Wentz comparisons will by flying.

It's gotta be tough on a kid to always be seated.

Huh?

In regards to your new sig ...

U sure u want to go with Dec 7th as the date we turned it around ...

You said "stood" rather than "stayed."