DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Sashi Brown fired

LOL....I am not, and bitching is a sexist comment You need to get with the times. Bitch clearly refers to a female dog.


We will see my friend. You love coaches and I think you are wrong on this one.

I'll bet you $5 Hue doesn't win 8 games next year.

It's a big if, oober. I won't argue that.

I will say the timing of all this makes it more realistic than some might think.

8 games? I just said I am not predicting anything.

This team still has a long way to go due to some of the dumb moves Sashi made.

I think he did some really good things, such as getting us picks, but man, his roster decisions were pretty damn bad. And his inability to keep our good free agents is an eyesore.

People loved bashing Gipson for his comments, but man, when a player is that upset w/how he was treated by an organization........it carries weight in the NFL community, if not on a message board.

Wait peen...........there is one bet I will take: I bet that Sashi does not win more games than Hue does next year.

Reactionary decisions once again doom Browns' future


Browns owner Jimmy Haslam once again makes change for the sake of change

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-brow...uture-111921965

Did Sashi Brown really have to answer for Santino?

The decided lack of success for the Cleveland Browns in the past three years has been vexing for the National Football League, as one of its most-storied, well-loved franchises circles the drain both on the field and off of it. After the abject failure of the Mike Pettine/Ray Farmer regime in 2015 with a 3-13 record and a murderer's row of mega-draft busts, Sashi Brown was brought up to rebuild the Browns' roster and get the team out of the doldrums.

Brown's style was unconventional, as he, along with former baseball executive Paul DePodesta used an analytics-based approach to play four-dimensional chess with the NFL Draft, resulting in a great variety of draft picks at the team's disposal. But even so, the team and head coach Hue Jackson are continuing to pay the price for the bad drafts of past regimes, and winning has been hard to come by in their rebuild. They avoided the ultimate indignity of an 0-16 season with a win in Week 16 of the 2016 season, but are treading above the fiery pit again late in the season this year. But even so, the Cleveland Browns under Sashi Brown seemed to at least have a plan: That the lumps the team was taking through the 2016 and 2017 seasons were just growing pains, and that the team had direction and was being set up for great success in the future.

But on Thursday, Jimmy Haslam just couldn't help himself.

By relieving Sashi Brown of his duties a year and three-quarters into a rebuild that began before the 2016 Draft, nothing has really been done about the Browns' record: 1-27 since the rebuild began in 2016. Rather, it is a purely reactionary move - The kind of move that has doomed the Browns since Haslam took over as team owner in 2012.

Sure, the Browns have been raked across the coals by the national media all season as quarterbacks Carson Wentz and Deshaun Watson, two players that Brown traded out of position to take, have broken out. Indeed, the frustration of Browns fans and their demands to Do something, anything about the lack of winning has been palpable. But the more intricate details of Brown's approach and vision have been largely ignored.

After past General Managers such as Tom Heckert Jr., Michael Lombardi, and Ray Farmer consistently got it right at getting it wrong in the draft, Brown was actually starting to develop a track record of success: No. 1-overall pick Myles Garrett has been as advertised. Corey Coleman, when healthy, has shown all the playmaking ability of a great receiver. David Njoku has boundless potential, as does Jabrill Peppers. And depth has slowly but surely come about, with players like Seth DeValve and Emmanuel Ogbah.

Still, it is also true that the relationship between Brown and Jackson had atrophied to the point where the two were no longer speaking. While this may have been the impetus for a change, it is a mistake to say that this outcome was unavoidable: Rather, the relationship between Brown and Jackson should have been salvaged and mediated by Haslam.

When NASCAR driver Jimmie Johnson and his crew chief, Chad Knaus, were feuding following a lost championship in 2005, team owner Rick Hendrick sat the two down to a "milk and cookies" meeting, and refused to let either leave until the two were both honest with themselves and worked out their differences. As a result of Hendrick's actions, Johnson and Knaus proceeded to win the next five NASCAR Cup Championships - And have won seven overall together.

This is the sort of decision-making that separates Hendrick, a car owner who has won racing championships many times over, from Haslam, who between his running of the Browns, Tennessee Volunteers, and Pilot/Flying J, could not be trusted at this point to run a lemonade stand in the peak of summer. Instead of trying to keep his head coach/front office combination together, he has decided once again to blow it all up in hopes that this time he will get it right.

This decision-making has bit the Browns before. It was this line of decision-making that led the Browns to bench quarterback Brian Hoyer, who had stabilized the franchise's quarterback play and had the Browns at 7-6 with a shot at the playoffs in 2014, in favor of Johnny Manziel, who had largely winged his success at Texas A&M. The Browns proceeded to lose out the 2014 season, and the stage was set for the Browns' current troubles thanks to the impulsiveness of Haslam's Browns.

At the very least, Haslam has made some progress by electing to keep his current coaching staff and not throw head coach Hue Jackson overboard as well in spite of the team's record - At the very least understanding that Jackson has not been put in a position to succeed. This could very well be to his credit, as history has shown that sticking with a coach through growing pains with a fledgling roster can work: John McKay, the head coach of the expansion Tampa Bay Buccaneers in the 1970s, led his team to the NFC Championship Game only two years after losing 26-straight games from the franchise's inception in 1976. But then, given Haslam's impulsiveness and the fact that the fanbase has turned on Jackson, he could very well not stick to this either.

When the Browns' rebuilding process began, no one expected that the team would be a winner anytime soon. There was likely to be a lot of losing and the same sort of hair-pulling that has defined the franchise since they returned to competition in 1999. But even in the face of a 1-27 record, the wise thing to do would have been to stay the course, do everything possible to keep the coaching staff and front office together, and remain committed to a long-term vision. Instead, Jimmy Haslam has elected to take the approach of someone who wants to win something, anything right this instant, all for the sake of saying "You see? I did something about it.".

The Browns have been worse off for this line of impulsive, reactionary decision-making. No one - Not Sashi Brown, and not Hue Jackson - needed to be fired over the Browns' 2016 and 2017 seasons if they wanted to have any hopes of becoming a winning franchise by the end of the decade realized. Unfortunately, the direction that the Browns had has been exchanged for inertia. It remains to be seen whether or not the once-great Cleveland Browns will ever go anywhere but the National Football League's basement as long as Jimmy Haslam is calling the shots.

Even after firing, Brown confident 'turnaround is coming' in Cleveland

https://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1439909

Sashi Brown may not have done enough to keep his job as Cleveland Browns executive vice president of football operations, but he believes the team is on the right track.

Since he took over as de facto general manager before last season, Cleveland's gone 1-27, and Brown was officially removed from his post Thursday. He then released a statement via the team in which he took responsibility for the lack of success, and gave his former staff members a vote of confidence.

I want this to be real and clear, the way I know Cleveland and Browns fans can appreciate: Our win-loss record since I became executive vice president isn’t going to cut it. ...

Obviously, the Browns have not yet achieved the turnaround we wanted for a franchise and the best fans in the NFL, who deserve it more than any other in sports. I know that turnaround is coming. ...

And when that turnaround happens, wherever I am, I will smile - more than a little bittersweetly - and say, to myself, "Go Browns!"

Brown joined the team in 2013 and was promoted to oversee the personnel department following the 2015 season. Cleveland put up a 15-77 record during his overall tenure.

Classy statement by Sashi. That makes me feel bad for him.

He knew we weren't going to win the first two years. He made that clear.

I said it from day one...........losing that many games is very hard to overcome. People start w/the blame game. Some guys on here put it all on Hue. Luckily, the Haslams didn't buy that BS.

I feel bad for Sashi, but if it came down between he and Hue.........it had to be Sashi.

agreed vers. .. that's a nice statement

I think that Sashi not pulling the trigger on one of the 2 QBs he had a shot at really did him in. I really wanted Wentz when he hit the draft, (if you recall) but I was happy with the picks we got in exchange for that pick. I do like Dorsey, and it appears that we were just waiting for him to say yes to pull the trigger on Sashi's firing.

I do think that Sashi, QB failures notwithstanding, did a great job of adding quality players to the team through the draft. He also built up a lot of draft capital that will serve Dorsey well.

I'm very hopeful moving forward. I think we have the right people in place.

anyone else think Sashi was hired to fail on purpose?

No, but I never understood how he got hired in the first place. He didn't have the qualifications.

A lot of his supporters acted like he had "no say" in what the Browns did in the previous year, but I always wondered how in the hell did he get the job if his voice wasn't reaching Jimmy's ears that year.

The stories of proposed trades that went sour made me think Sashi was gaining more power in Farmer's last year. The contract issues w/guys like Gipson made me think that Sashi was gaining more power. Win the deal. I could see how Haslam loved that notion.

The bottom line in my line of thinking is that it would have been way more ignorant for Haslam to pick Sashi's name out of a hat than it would be to think that Sashi was gaining power the previous year.

I was "hoping" it would work out because I value continuity, but I am very happy w/the way it turned out because I believe that we have a better football talent evaluator and we have not sacrificed continuity.

The entire plan was to be bad for a few years. If that's what you mean by fail, then yes, he was hired to fail.

Sashi Brown clearly had a plan and was executing it well. Draft a lot of young, talented players, acquire draft picks, increase cap space, etc. Sashi Brown did what he was hired to do.

1) I don't think we were a long way away yesterday. Now I'm not so sure. You could be right.

2) I don't think this is a day of celebration. Although I don't mind Sashi Brown being let go, but it sounds like we chose the worst ever head coach in the history of the NFL over him. If we lose the next 4 games, I don't know how you can keep Hue. I'd feel a lot better if he had won 2-3 more games.

Gordon was Heckert.

The draft that truly screwed us was the Manziel/Gilbert draft. That was one of best drafts of all time and we zilch with two first round picks.

I agree, but the TRich/Weeden draft was just as bad.

I know you loved Sashi, but his drafts were disappointing. He saw numbers. He didn't see football players. He tried to win deals and alienated people. He made terrible roster decisions.

A lot of his ideas made sense. His choices were garbage. We are better off now than we were w/him.

I kinda feel bad for you. I was wondering if you are still going to be a Brown's fan now that Sashi is gone?

Holy moly, how do you decide between that... I'd say trich/weeden was worse.

The owner makes it tough.

But thanks for your concern.

It is stupid to rehash this, but none of this means anything anyway.

We could have had two generational players in the 2014 while still trading down. We could have had Odell Beckham and Aaron Donald! That's insane!

I wasn't kidding.........even though we argued a lot, I do feel bad for you. I can project how I would feel if it was the other way around.

Hopefully we start winning and they can win your fandom back.

Why did you bring it up if it was so stupid to rehash it?

I get that you are upset, but please play fair.

I didn't know where to put this. I decided to put it here because, if true, it probably contributed to Sashi Brown's firing more than many other things. Mike Silver when asked about Hue Jackson wanting A.J. McCarron:



I am glad the trade didn't happen (I'm guessing that John Dorsey is glad also), but failing to execute simple paperwork on something your boss wants is pretty bad.

As I said at the time..............it was either gross incompetence or blatant insubordination.

I was shocked that he wasn't fired immediately. I had second thoughts when he wasn't and was hoping we might be able to keep everyone.

However, I think that act [in addition to all the other terrible moves] initiated the Haslams starting the process to find his replacement.

And I can't believe I am saying this............but, that seems to have been a pretty smart move.

Yeah, well, I'm pretty disgruntled. I felt Sashi had us on the right path. I was upset a few times for not having that QB, and I think ultimately that is the reason for the disconnect and firing. I guess the question now becomes which QB does Dorsey like? Rosen or Mayfield? Or is there the possibility that he and Hue really like Mahomes and we go all in on him?

Go Browns!


What does this mean for who stays who goes. Roster wise.

Still think the Head coach is the most responsible for wins vs losses.
Don't try and sell me the same bill of Goods as this past off-season, that this team might be good.

Hue is coming back.

2016 Hue > 2017 Hue, because 2016 Browns had to use 4 Qb's because of injury.

2018 Hue, Let's see. Go Browns.

I hear ya man.

I won't pretend I know how he came to power, but he did.

My line of thinking is that he did more good than bad, as far as the roster goes.

one thing jumps at me for sure.

Getting a draft pick from the steelers for justin gilber was brilliant.

getting rid of Mingo and later bringing in J Collins from the pats also damn good to me.

Jason McCourty was another move I liked.

Brean Body Calhuan is coming along nicely in my eyes. I like kindred as a run stopper.

and he a had a couple I didn't really care for.

I agree. If Sashi is the one who sabotaged that trade, then that was another gift he left us. Not doing something the boss tells you to do is bad, but I am happy that trade did not happen.

I think Sashi fell on his sword on that deal...either that, or the details simply couldn't be worked out on time. Thank you Sashi either way.

Sashi got this job for the same reason Pettine was named HC. We were a complete crap show at the time we needed a new guy...and our choices sucked.

Sashi is a lawyer known for his ability to generate consensus. I do not buy for one second that Sashi was overriding the football guys in the FO or Hue. The optics suggest that Sashi was "in control" of the 53 man roster, but I seriously doubt that. I believe he was put in the unenviable position of being the tie-breaker with his only real "tool" being the ability to generate consensus...not to add his opinion via talent evaluation.

In the end, the Browns took a shot at a "different" hierarchy structure and it wasn't working in their eyes...so they moved on. For where we are in the latest rebuild, it's a lot easier to replace a FO guy than the HC...and nearly impossible to replace BOTH. However, it appears that the hierarchy will remain in tact...but now we have a "football guy" as the tie-breaker...but I think he will function more like a "decider". I'm switching to a new brand of lollipops.

Please explain the Haden and Grecco cuts ...

Hue was not even remotely close to happy about those two cuts ...

I agree that Sashi listened and only made the final decisions when there was no consesus ...

PROBLEM is thinking theres going to be CONSEUS on everything and it WON’T CAUSE a rift when push comes to shove ... it ALWAYS DOES ...

Sashi was SET UP to FAIL by the thief ...

DUMB ASS PLAN ....

I even asked after the Haden/Grecco cuts ... is this a one time thing or is it just the RIFT COMING TO LIGHT ...

It prolly started as far back as the Kessler pick .. i think Hue was covering for Sashi on that one .. that’s PURE SPECUALTION on my part ...

I’ve thought that since the day i heard .... TRUST ME ....

Let me ask you directly ; Are you satisfied with the FO STRUCTURE / Who reports to whom ??

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ..... 1011, 1012 ...


OK ... i’m Ready to answer now ... ...

HELL NO .... its a DUMB ASS STRUCTURE that shows the thief is still in charge of something he KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT ...

At least he got a football guy to make final roster decisions ... thats an upgrade ..

I 100% agree with U that the thief is the problem ... he set Sashi up to FAIL by giving him ultimate control over the roster ... a job he was not nearly QUALIFIED TO DO ...

The thief is the head of the snake ... and he is a snake for sure ..

I’m with U bro ... the thiefs the problem ...

All we can do is HOPE he steps back and lets Dorsey and Hue do their jobs ... HOPE IS ALL WE GOT ...

Being a Military Man ( retarded NCO ) He reminds me of an officer who will take an objective no matter how many men it costs ..

Did you mean retired?

Same thing.

You gotta love spell checker. Sometimes computers are smarter than we think.

Haden was/is below-average at that point in his career. He was making ...what...14 million to be a backup? Do you think Haden - a Captain last year - was going to take being demoted to backup? They offered Haden to stay with a paycut...he refused...that happens to football-guy GMs too. He also had issues getting/staying healthy the past few years. If we were on the cusp of a playoff run, Haden - and his poor play and giant contract - would still be here over developing players like Darius Hillary and Michael Jordan...but we aren't on that cusp.

We have two Grecos on the roster today. One of whom is capable of playing LT if needed...and IS today...after playing LG most of last year. Greco could not survive at LT. The other "Greco" is so not-needed he's inactive every week and is much, much younger than Greco. How many Grecos do we need? Greco is/was a great guy...but he's an older player coming off a foot injury and we had two guys equal-to or better than him. It happens.

What else you got?

Jab alert: I see you are joining the lollipop club now with a new football-GM but who still doesn't oversee the HC...but has final say over the roster (not just a tie-breaker)...with BOTH guys still reporting directly to your favy Jimmah. Surely they will get along.