DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns have hired John Dorsey to become Cleveland's general manager

I just want to comment on one thing, and this is independent of all the who's and what's flying around right now.

How nice is it to have a plan in place and execute that plan when we get rid of someone? I always couldn't stand how we used to fire people and then we were like, "now what?" No question that this was a highly organized effort to turn around the FO in record time. So I give them credit to that. I need to try to read up on Dorsey.

Another thing... man, this business is BRUTAL!

I woulda been first by a minute but my internet was so darn slow on the tugboat right now.

I was on the phone with my wife and saying to her, "Man, I wish the internet wasn't so slow, I'd be able to be the first on this one." lol

I read something in an article earlier (I think a MKC Cleveland.com one) saying that Sashi was ordered to get McCaron after Hue found out that Jimmy G went to the 49ers for a 2nd round pick.


I guess, Sashi didn't even know about the trade before Hue brought it up, and this really pissed off Jackson because he felt like the Browns didn't even have a chance to try to get him over the 49ers. Hue really wanted Jimmy. AJ McCaron was a knee-jerk consolation


Haslam then told Brown to get McCarron. Brown failed so miserably that it looks like it might be on purpose (thank god).

And that would be the insubordination. Haslam tells Brown to do something. Brown doesn't do it.

Has a head coach ever been demoted to coordinator on his own team? Something makes me think that that's never happened.

Hang on a minute. They're saying they've been talking 5-6 weeks. Wasn't the bye week 4.5 weeks ago? They were talking to him before the bye?

I think there are rules against that, even rules against it happening right away if an HC is fired from a team.

Not like our record was/is a glaring example of job security eh?

Yes, I would bet ... it seemed odd when he was here a month ago, but now not anymore

there's a lot to like about taking our GM job (and a lot not to like obviously) ... but the draft picks, salary cap, current young front 7 ... plus, nobody expects crap. we're freaking 1-28 or whatever

Merry Xmas INDEED, Baby!

Haslam was serious about this and it started with Singletary. There's your Rooney Rule qualifier.

This all makes sense now.

Sashi fired. Haslams statement about Jackson being here in 2018 was because he already KNEW Dorsey was coming that evening and he already agreed that Jackson was to STAY.

The best of the spin doctors can't spin that one.

QB?

Just speculation here. During Dorseys tenure with GB they had Farve and Rogers. KC brought in Smith.

Who in this draft mirrors any of them? Not knowing what input Dorsey had on any of it. Those were still the ones he had on said teams.

Who fits? Only TWO in my book.

Rosen and Darnold.

Dorsey and keeping Jackson is Merry Xmas.

Rosen is the Happy New Year!

Seriously doubt he'd give Jackson and Mayfield even a second look. Thank God!

Hue can still resign. If his desire is to be in Cincy who can stop him?

There MAY be alot left to this yet whether it's in the plan or not.

We knew something was up when we were talking to Singletary

All good stuff except you forgot that Hue doesn't run the ball. Never waste a pick on a back as long as Hue Jackson is coach.

The FO/Dorsey keeping final say over the roster is VERY good thing.

It's almost like all we need is a QB. Haha.

While I definitely think there is talent to win games, not having the QB clearly hurt us. However, I'm not sure that Hue getting let go will necessarily be the case. People will be upset, but I think there is credence to saying Hue will be here in 2018 as I'm guessing, since the Dorsey hire was in the mix for awhile, that keeping Hue was part of the discussion and seemingly agreed upon.

However, there definitely could be a situation where Dorsey doesn't like what he seems and asks Jimmy for a change. But I don't put a high percentage on that for many reasons, but the one at the top is the hierarchy doesn't have Hue reporting to him. Hue reports to Haslem. Hue is a Jimmy and Dee guy. They'll most likely give him at least a portion of next year. I also expect Hue to be on his best behavior with the four weeks remaining in the season and not work through the media in an attempt to persuade people to take sides.

Keeping Hue is fine. I just thought we should have kept both -- only wishing the two people would have been on the same page. Dorsey is set up to do really well. This draft and our assets is a wet dream for a incoming GM. A QB will be the first pick and if he picks the right one, we'll see all these other pieces come together as well.

we'll see what he does with the current players though ... guys like Louis, Schobert, Crow, Britt, Colemans, etc

I think you give Haslam WAYYYYY more potential credit for being far sighted than I ever could. So in answer to your question - absolutely not. I do not think Haslam can see or plan that far. jmo

I tend to agree with you - I think Sashi has done a good job preparing the team for success. I think there are some good pieces in place. . . I do not have the same confidence that Sashi would have 100% nailed the QB selection in this draft. And to be honest I don't know that Dorsey will either. But Sashi has left behind the greatest opportunity for his successor to succeed that I have ever seen.... He's gone because of a power struggle with Hue.

I understand that it might appear that way - personally I think Sashi is smart enough to realize that draft capital has to turn into game changing talent on the team if you are going to, you know, actually improve the team .... and so I personally believe there was a 3 year plan. Year 3 (this year) was the year to acquire cap space and max draft picks and then utilize it without trading down and go BIG in draft and FA to put your final pieces in play ... If you look at the way the team & draft was managed - and you look at it as a 3 year plan, it makes sense to me.

j/c:

After reading and listening to people sharing their views on John Dorsey, there isn't even an average take on him. Everyone absolutely loves him and what he has done in the NFL.

That's very promising.

Yes. It's a shame Sashi won't get the opportunity to use the picks he acquired this year which was a huge part of the process. Of course there will always be those fans who will always think Sashi wasn't a spender and was only a pick hoarder. Nothing will be farther from the truth, but the haters will always believe that is the truth.

Probably not very high.

But do you understand how many negative stories and comments were wrongly leaked about Sashi simply because of "old school football guys" not wanting to have their jobs questioned because someone had a new, different approach? You know how many beat writers ran with those leaks & national takes because they don't want to lose their sources and relevance reporting in the league? That's why his chances are so low. So many people needed Sashi and his approach to fail and it's so obvious (at least to me) what happened. Not that analytics is new, but the emphasis and reliance on it over the constant human error and emotion driving decision-making. I think someone posted a article or comment that said drafting NFL players is the LEAST efficient process in all of sports. Maybe baseball was up there because of the sheer amount of players selected, but, that the process of scouting/drafting players and their success rate is mind-bogglingly poor. If someone has that or if I'm incorrect in stating that, please point that out. The process of removing as many inefficiencies as possible is what is beginning to take form in the NFL and there is resistance to that. I even see it on this board. Sashi was the latest poster child for that effort. Hopefully Depo remains where some of these new systems remain implemented and improved upon. It'll eventually happen where analytics most likely trumps the eye test in percentage given when making decisions, I wanted the Browns to lead that revolution-- like they've done many times before.

Sashi needed time to actually implement the plan IMO. And now he won't get that chance. But he left us in a great position and hopefully we see the fruits of that work next year.... You know, when Jimmy said he wanted to see tangible results.

Yes, I'm optimistic. He has big shoes to fill and I'm hopeful he can do as well as Sashi. It sounds like Sashi always drafted best player available while acquiring assets. We needed good players, Sashi brought us good players. Some of these players aren't Hue guys, so the excuse was born. And I agree the FO and HC have to be in the same page. Obviously they weren't. Sashi will always be seen as the guy who passed on Wentz and to some that is a fire-able offense. We were going to have the #1 pick it a ton of tradable assets and likely draft our quarterback of the future this year. In year 5, as was the plan, everyone would have forgotten about Wentz. But here we are....

Well this is a business - so while I have some sympathy for Sashi, it is what it is. He had a big hand in his own downfall - whether it was in-fighting with Hue, whether it was the botched trade, whether it was missing on Wentz ... they are all serious issues, not to mention a 1-27 record.

If there wasn't poison between Hue and Sashi I would have wanted things kept in place with the addition of an OC. If one of them had to go, I can't think of a better scenario than the one that has played out. . . . . we get the most amount of continuity and as per the really excellent article someone posted yesterday about alignment of philosophy, we've got an 'old school' HC and and 'old school' GM.

What we will probably never know - which is the biggest single question mark for me - how much of an impact on selecting a draft day QB did Hue Jackson have?? He was the only HC at Wentz's pro-day. I cannot believe that if Hue was sold on Wentz that after that we wouldn't have taken him .... so the strike on Sashi not picking Wentz would also need to be owned by Hue. What about others - what was the QB strategy last year? And what was Hue's input on Watson before the trade down? ... As it has been said, Sashi didn't evaluate talent, he made a decision based on evaluation and input by others. What was Hue's input in all this?

Although his chances will be slim, I think there's a chance he could still get a shot in the NFL. He has a think outside of the box mentality, and I think that could be an asset to any team.

If he found a starting QB, or even if Kizer put a few wins under his belt, he'd still be here. Going 1-whatever, someone was bound to get the axe.

Also, I just listened to the Hue presser. I didnt' think he threw anyone under the bus at all, including his offense. Reading tweets, and posts on here, I thought he yapped away like a loose cannon. I didn't get that feeling. Only feeling I got, as always, is I despise some of our CLE media reporters.

Thanks for re-posting clwb, lots of stuff to look through on recent events.
Half those guys I either haven't heard of or haven't heard of since the draft.
I liked Chris Jones coming our but had no idea he was a starter let alone an impact guy.
A lot of o-line guys on that list. Never heard of any of them.

Good stuff
Glaring absence is the Qb position though.

I agree 100% ....

There's two different sides to the original question / premise.

Sashi wasn't a talent evaluator and he shouldn't have been. He was in charge of the final roster - and I doubt he ever sees that power again.

I think teams looking at the draft collateral that Sashi amassed and the way he has provided a foundation for future success - I have every reason to think Sashi will be given an opportunity to have an influential position within an NFL organization. Add to that the very professional way he conducted himself. jmo

We don’t know what they were talking about 5 - 6 weeks ago ... they may have been talking about a GM role and were going to bring him in in that capacity ... U know to have a structure like the REST OF THE LEAGUE .... an addition and not a “replacement” ... Sashi may have been leading the search ... *LOL* ...

The discussion may have changed right after the NIGHTMARE at the FACTORY of SADNESS or it may have changed at any time since when the thief found out how TOXIC the building was ...

The AJ Mccarran fiasco. He was either grossly incompetent or he chose to botch the deal. I thought he would be fired immediately. You just can't tolerate that type of action as an owner.

Many of his defenders backed him because they thought he was smart to botch the deal. It was discussed thoroughly on here. I'm glad that we didn't make that trade, but you can't have your top guy be that incompetent and you certainly can't tolerate insubordination. And seeing as how Sashi is a Harvard educated man w/multiple degrees and is a lawyer, I doubt he was too incompetent to complete a trade.

That's definitely what cost him his job. You gotta have trust, and all trust was thrown out the window after the McCarron situation.

I think Sashi knew we weren't ready for a QB, we needed far more than just that piece. He did a phenomenal job building a roster trading Wentz while everyone in the organization was on board until two years later when they realized he was worth the #2 pick.

At one point the "moneyball" thought process brought us to the idea of building a team, then adding a quarterback as the final piece. Moneyball had little to do with money and more to do with gaining a competitive edge. And we were well on our way, just take a look at the defense. There's no doubt we would have drafted a QB with the first pick this next draft.

It's too bad the owner and a lot of the media and fans are impatient, but I get it. The plan wasn't to win in year one or in year two. Results were coming year 3 and that had been the mantra of even the owner as little as 2 months ago. The owner and a lot of fans believe that this change will miraculously make Hue a better game manager and HC. I have my doubts and I have no idea how anyone could side with a 1-27 HC or at worst a 1-31 HC. It's amazing how the owner and HC just threw all the players under the bus yet there are some who think this is brilliant and Hue deserves another chance.

This is unprecedented and unheard of from a really crappy team. I can't recall ever in any sport any team ever firing a front office but keeping the head coach. This is the one scenario I felt had almost a zero shot of happening.

And if it works out within the next couple of years, the one architect, Sashi Brown, who was the most instrumental will get zero credit.

This comment is wrong on so many levels that I don't even know where to begin.