DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns have hired John Dorsey to become Cleveland's general manager

Priceless.

Your point is well taken but I think there is something to be said about a roster this young being able to go into its third year with the same head coach. It just has to translate to wins next year or you can bet, he'll be gone. Dorsey will not ride out his tenure with a losing coach.

JMHO

If this were a political thread, that would fit right in.

j'c

I love the made up narrative that Hue was forced on Dorsey. Only on DawgTalkers. lol

It's obvious that this was discussed weeks ago and that Dorsey was more than willing to have Hue continue on as our HC.

I think people are coming up with this BS after meeting with Elvis at the donut shop.

I wonder how quickly Dorsey's perception and leeway will change IF he doesn't draft a QB in the first?

Agreed. Strangely, it is the total opposite of Hue being forced on him. Dorsey actually got to pick his head coach because he knew who the head coach was going to be when he made his decision. If it was a problem, he could have turned the job down.

I think that's far more confirmation than coming in to a position with the need to search for a head coach - in that instance, you're not sure what coaches will be available, what coach will want to take the job and what everyone else in the building will think of that coach. There is a lot of variables in place.

Like Dorsey said, he has been told good things about Hue and is seeing a young roster playing hard for their coach. I'm not currently on speaking terms with Jackson because he pisses me off some weeks, but there is no denying the attraction of that to a GM: He knows his coach has a lot of young talent giving their all, and knows the young talent he selects will likely follow that precedent.

But, ultimately, he got to pick his coach.

I mean, if I walk in to a pizza shop and the menu says the pizza has cheese, pepperoni, olives, onion, peppers and pineapple, I can't order that pizza and then stand there screaming, "YOU FORCED THIS PINEAPPLE ON ME!" when the order comes through. I knew what I was getting when I agreed to get it.

Link


It's sounding like a QB in the first.

I'm in wait and see mode with Dorsey QB or not.

Or a FA QB. They did bring in Smith from SF.

The thing I like about Dorsey's QB moves is that he doesn't seem to monkey around with the position at all. Smith is doing his thing, and they still use their top pick on Mahomes (for the future). I'm sure Smith would've preferred a blue-chip offensive weapon for him to throw to, but Dorsey seemed to prioritize the long-term health of his QB position. It's smart (if Mahomes works out).

I have no clue whether it's right to interpret the tea leaves one way or another when it comes to drafting a QB in the 1st.

But I'm certain some will meltdown if he doesn't take a QB in the 1st.

btw Grimm, do you think the Bears are gonna draft a 1st round QB?

Oof. He states we won't be successful until we get a QB, then he mentions the three guys who currently have that title. Only one by name.

Oof.

He drafted Kevin Hogan too.

He wasn't GM for the Mahomes pick. In his tenure, he drafted Aaron Murray and Kevin Hogan - both in the fifth round. Both were gone by the end of his GM tenure.

Well if he says "until we get a QB" and says we have three on the roster, it seems pretty obvious that he doesn't see any of those three as our QB or he wouldn't have said "unti we get one".

Seems pretty clear to me.

He drafted Hogan in the 5th.

That's about the right place to try to get a developmental QB. It's not like he did it in round three or anything. lmao

Also he got fired in June. A month? after the draft. So he did pick Mahommes.

fixed it, both were 5th round. thx

j/c:

Jimmy Haslam, failed owner so far, may get John Dorsey hire right by accident: Doug Lesmerises

BEREA, Ohio - If Jimmy Haslam got it right this time, it will be by accident. But sometimes happy accidents happen.

Awful teams earn the No. 1 pick in the NFL Draft, find a college quarterback waiting for them, make the obvious choice and set themselves up for a decade.

Maybe new GM John Dorsey is that. Maybe the Browns owner stumbled into the guy who will get this right.

Dorsey's resume, highlighted by a 43-21 four-year mark as the general manager in Kansas City, sparkles more brightly than any recent Browns GM hire, and the cap room and draft picks in place enhance his chances for success. He was unemployed and available and likely would have been scooped up by another team if the Browns hadn't pounced.

Anyone who liked the strategy and process put in place by Sashi Brown can't be so blinded by the past as to ignore what's in front of them now: a qualified, self-assured decision maker who could rightly inspire confidence.

That makes one.

The greatest potential problem comes from the fact that Dorsey was hired by Haslam and that he is committed to building a team in the image Hue Jackson desires.

No one should trust either of those two.

Haslam bent to the winds again, switching course based on the last person in the room to whisper him a good idea. Nothing he has done as owner should make anyone believe in any decision he makes.

And he knows that. He agreed when I asked Friday why anyone should have faith in him or his choices.

"I think that's a fair question," Haslam said. "We have not done a good job as owners, and it has been hard, harder than we would have thought. But I believe we have the right people in place, and in all organizations, the key ingredient is people.

"We have the right people in place with John and Hue and the people under them to do that. And I'm really excited going forward, really excited."

What excites him is a turn back toward traditional football talk, which is what excites Jackson and what excites Dorsey. Paul DePodesta remains as a team strategist, and Dorsey gave lip service to analytics, but it's hard to imagine DePodesta having any true voice in the Dorsey-Jackson world, and it's hard to imagine him sticking around.

If he does stay, good. That he's still here inspires some hope that maybe Haslam will strike the ideal balance between old school and new school, and oversee a cohesive, smart, forward-thinking operation that utilizes the best attributes of scouting and numbers to create a winner.

No? Not buying it?

While the Browns hammer the idea of alignment, the fear is a room full of stubborn yes men who undo Brown's work.

There's disagreement over Brown's moves of the past. There's no dispute over the way he set the franchise up for the future.

They may waste the picks accrued under Brown by trading them for mediocre veterans (see the failed AJ McCarron deal); or blow the cap space on more mediocre veterans to appease Jackson's win-now desperation and send the franchise back where it was three, four and five years ago.

No one is more capable of undoing all that work, and making the pain of the last two years for naught, than Jackson.

Haslam is listening to him. Dorsey is bragging about being in concert with him.

Beware, Browns fans, beware.

The John Dorsey way of doing things may be right for the Browns. The John Dorsey way of making Hue Jackson happy will almost certainly be wrong.

But there remains no one above them to referee potential disputes other than the owners. Haslam smirked at the suggestion of a team president who would lord over both Jackson and Dorsey, rather than having both of them report directly to Jimmy and Dee Haslam.

"It sounds by your question that you think we need to," Haslam said to a reporter, before explaining that no president position is planned.

"I would never say we would never do that," Haslam said. "But we're comfortable with the alignment with the way it lines up."

Comfort should be the enemy. Brown and Jackson didn't get along, and something had to give. But Dorsey and Jackson patting themselves on the back, spinning yarns about the old days and sending the Browns into traditional-football purgatory isn't the answer either.

There should be disagreement and debate and discussion, with the best idea and evaluation winning out. Under the right situation, and a better moderator, maybe the Browns could have thrived through the Brown-Jackson conflict, not crumbled under it.

Haslam isn't capable of overseeing that situation.

So when it got messy, he dumped the guy with the different ideas and stuck with the guy more palatable to the rest of the league. Then he hired Dorsey, a decorated talent evaluator, and told him, "Here's your coach, you guys kind of think alike."

Credit Haslam for taking the risk of the Brown-DePodesta plan. The Browns are better for it. Blame him for not having the gumption to stick it out and to referee the disputes more adeptly.

You've heard this before, but if this GM-coach combo doesn't work out, like the ones before them didn't, where else is there to look other than to Haslam? He tried a plan based on patience, then bailed on it because he has no plan or patience himself.

So I asked what Haslam will do if he determines eventually that the problem is ownership.

He chuckled so hard he snorted.

"We'll cross that bridge when we come to it," Haslam said.

Actually, Jimmy, we're all on that bridge already. If the Browns make it across, it will be by accident.

But as usual, it feels like it's going to collapse.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/12/jimmy_haslam_failed_owner_so_f.html

Yep, I'm an idiot today (other days too, just worse today), ignore me.

Pretty much says it all doesn't it.



Did some reading up on dorsey.... Got high grades for his ability to source talent (draft and FA). Had some issues with the way he did things like this summer, he fired two guys (Trip Macracken, remember him, and another guy) didn't tell anyone in the organization that he was doing it and made no explanation to the media and apparently didn't inform the Hunt family he was going to do it.

Not sure how to take that.

But we do have a ton of Cap space and lots of picks and lots of young guys that can still grow into their roles so actually, if he uses the money and picks right, we could be in very good shape for years to come.

Well articulated article !

This " Having three different people report to the owner is dumb in any circumstance. Having three different people report to the owner when the owner is Jimmy Haslam is a disaster."

And , way to go Mourg !!

yea... until he picks a dud then you will be saying its a hue or haslam pick lmao.

I have to admit, this does concern me. I wrote in another thread that I don't expect wholesale slaughter, but I do expect that some of our youth at depth will be replaced by vets and the cap space will be used. It's a matter of degree. At this point we have to assume that Hue & Dorsey are smart enough to know they're on a good path, and while veteran leadership is good, youth and skill are also good. The roster is in good shape to move forward with a few additions, both veteran and rookie.

At this point, not really. A lot depends on what they do with their FO and coaching situation, though. Think Pace and Fox are going the wrong direction record-wise since they've been together in Chicago. Seems pretty soon to give up on Mitch with what he's had to work with.

Fox is out ... thats a NO BRAINER ...

Not sure why theres even questions about Mitch at this point ... thats just silly talk ...

Are there questions about Mitch? I mean other then my asking Grimm?

But do you consider questions about Kizer silly?

2 rookie QBs in similar situations with similar production but with different perceptions, at least in this forum.

"You know what, let's re-awake this sleeping giant, the Cleveland Browns." — John Dorsey

interesting snippet...


"Further, Haslam confirmed that Paul DePodesta, a Sashi Brown hire, will remain with the franchise going forward. Dorsey supported the decision and said he is looking forward to assessing how analytics, DePodesta's department, can fit with the organization. "I'm a forward-enough thinker in today's technology. I think in today's football, you have to have a certain degree of technology. If not, you're living in the stone ages. These things are going to help you advance."

I agree that it's too soon for the Bears to spend a 1st round pick on a QB....and I have the same thought in regards to the Browns.

I was just pointing out a parralel situation but much different perceptions.

I swear to god if we trade out of the number one pick I am going to vomit.

Questions I have no problem with ... u asked if the Bears will draft a QB like they could be giving up on Mitch all ready ... i was being nice when i said silly ... ...

But do you consider questions about Kizer silly?

Once again ... questions .. not silly at all .... wanting to give up on him ... thats just STUPID ...

2 rookie QBs in similar situations with similar production but with different perceptions, at least in this forum.

You have a valid point about the opinions in this forum .... i could care less about the opinions in the forum ... most have no clue ... your not in that category ... most just look at stats and start drawing correlations and thats BS ... its also STUPID ...

Those two share one thing ... there both ROOKIES ... thats the only similiraity they have ...

Everything else about them is DIFFERENT starting with their college experience ... everything thats happend to them in the NFL is DIFFERENT ...

I think what your getting at is why do we need to aquire another qb now IN CASE KIZER doesnt work out and Chitown don’t ...

- Kizer was innacurate in college and still is ... he’s actually gotten worse ..... Mitch wasn’t, he has had issues sporadically with it in a few games ... its not CONSTANT like it is with Kizer and it wasn’t who he was in college ...

- Kizer struggles with locking on recievers in college and still does and Mitch didn’t and doesn’t now ...

- Kizer takes forever to go through progressions (thats improved some over the last month since hues “dumbed” things down) ... Mitch don’t ...

There’s risk with Mitch and Kizer ... just like with any rookie qb .. but he didn’t have the same problems Kizer did when coming out and Kizer is the same QB he was in college as far as his negatives ... and to me accuracy and decision making are 1and 1a ... Kizer has struggled with both those since day 1 in college ... Mitch didn’t struggle with either in college and is light years ahead of Kizer in both departments in his NFL career ..

STATS are decieving here .... case in point ... against the ravens Mitch was 8 - 16 .. i’ve Watched every snap they’ve both taken this year ... 6 of those were DEFINITE THROW AWAYS ... a 7 th i’m not sure ... Mitch’s stat line was 8 - 16 witch is HORRIBLE ... in reality 6 of the 8 incompletions were GREAT DECISIONS and throw aways ...

There’s a reason one was the 2nd pick in the draft and the other was taken late in rnd. 2 ...

Not sure how i chopped off some of your previous post ... im no genius at this stuff either .. *L* ..

I figured thats where u were going ... with the parrellels ... I addressed it in my response to your post directed at me up above ...

IMO there not parallel situations ... not even similiar other than the fact there both rookies ...

I think this was a done deal that started during the bye week. That's why this happened so fast. I think it's a good hire. Please John, make us a winner again!

GO BROWNS!!!!!

We have a GM now that knows what he is doing. I already like his first move in waving Britt. I don't see us trading the pick but you never know.

I am good with it even if I am soory Sashi didn't get to work the plam while Hue gets to buy more time.

I suspect the Giants house cleaning prompted ours.

Sources: Communication, management style were factors in Chiefs’ firing of Dorsey

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article158155634.html

Unless Mike Silver or the QB coach says so days after the draft on a radio show, no I won't.