DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Make Your QB Case

Thats true, but knowing that, I want the QBs who can get over that hump.

So I want the Newton’s, Wilson’s, Rodger’s, Big Ben, etc.

I think Lamar Jackson! Mayfield, and Darnold can be game changing. I don’t think Rosen can.

draft Rosen at #1

skip A. Smith and T. Bridgewater and go after Sam Bradford...

At least that is how I feel at the moment

Sam Bradford?

Come on man....

was he not doing really well before he got hurt?

Stay away from Rosen. Fire Hue and get a young hungry offensive minded head coach who tells it like it is. With the first 2 picks get Barkley and either Darnold or Mayfield. Bring in Eli or Alex Smith to groom the young QB. Get another BIG WR. Then go corner and safety. Stock the areas of need. We need to hit on the picks. This should give us 8-10 wins or more in 2018. With Hue gone fans will pack the stadium again!!

How many seasons have fans said this about him.

Enough is enough.

Good thread, bonefish. I will try and talk about QBs and not hijack the thread by talking about RBs.

I like Rosen provided he interviews okay w/Dorsey and company. He is by far the best passer in the group.

Rosen is the most accurate qb to come out in a while. He leads guys very well. Similar to Jimmy G. He throws w/anticipation. He stands in the face of the rush and delivers strikes. He throws well on the run. He is not "stiff." Heck, I don't even understand how anyone who has watched him can say that.

He is very intelligent and was also an excellent tennis player. Tennis players are anything but "stiff." Here is a link to an article about his skill set and leadership skills:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footba...college-career/

I have seen Rosen read coverages. I have seen him go through progressions. He can start day 1. No waiting period.

In the past, I have been reluctant to put a top 5 grade on a qb who wasn't asked to read coverages and go through progressions. It's not that I was saying they can't do it, but it's hard for me to gush over a guy if I haven't seen him do those things. The reason is if they can't, they will never be quality qbs, and I don't care what other assets they have. Our own Branden Weeden is a perfect example of that.

The rest:

I like Darnold, but it bothers me that his lower body mechanics fall apart when he is pressured. He could end up being great though.

I wouldn't touch Mayfield w/a ten foot pole. Too unstable.

I like Jackson the person and his athleticism, but his accuracy and reads are huge concerns.

I have to say that I haven't watched Allen, so I can't venture an opinion.

I would like for the Browns to:

--Draft Rosen w/the first pick

--Keep Kizer

--Sign a vet who isn't a huge threat to start, someone like Miller or Stanton.

Now, my opinions could change as more information is attained.

Please stop. This is not a Hue thread. It's a QB thread. Take your garbage to the million other Hue threads.

At this point I'd take Darnold but John will have 4 months to figure it out.

Rosen without a doubt.

1. Rosen
2. Darnold
3. Mayfield
4. Allen

1. At this point, it would be a surprise if Baker Mayfield doesn’t go somewhere in the first round. Mayfield isn’t for everyone. But he’s accurate, he’s mobile, and he wins. The off-field incident of last summer and his on-field antics are there, yes, but offset by how his teammates and coaches feel about him, and his football character (i.e. how seriously he takes his craft). Like I said last week, I think a lot of teams will have second-round grades on him, and someone jumps on him in the first.

2. Conversely, it would be a surprise if Lamar Jackson does go in the first round. The evaluators I’ve spoken with have questions about his instincts and anticipation in the passing game, and his ability to process within the context of a pro offense, and still believe he’s more thrower than passer. That doesn’t mean he can’t develop. It does means that he was seen as raw as a quarterback going into 2016, and the feeling on that remains the same.

3. For as closely as we all scrutinized USC’s Sam Darnold, UCLA’s Josh Rosen, and Wyoming’s Josh Allen, not much has changed on those three as far as scouts are concerned. Darnold still has the funky mechanics, the flair for the dramatic, the rep as a winner and the pristine character. Rosen is still the pageant winner—he looks like he was born to throw a football—with the questions about his personality and character. And Allen is the raw mountain of ability without much polish.

​4. I think Josh Rosen and Josh Allen are definitely declaring, and I think very few people know what Sam Darnold will do. My understanding is Darnold shut down all talk of that before the season started, and his reluctance to jump through some hoops players do (like vetting agents) in deciding on whether to declare or not is what led people to believe that he’ll be back in 2018. What you hear is he’s a smart kid, from a good family, who will take everything into account before making a final call. Could he use the extra year? Yes. But if he’s projected to go first or second, that’ll be tough to pass on.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/12/2018-d...ourtland-sutton

didn't I read somewhere that you would be ok with Bridgewater?

is he not coming back from a devastating injury?

I think he was talking about Bradford.

He doesn’t have the injury history of Sam Bradford. It ain’t close bro.

then again could be the start of many for Terry...those are hard to overcome aren't they?

idk bro, I'll stand by my two picks.

it cool if you think otherwise.

Rumors before the trade deadline said that Andrew Luck and Colts FO are not on good terms and the Colts tried to deal him but couldn’t get the deal they wanted.

If the Colts are still interested and Luck is healthy and we want a franchise QB that badly, we would be wise to make a trade with the Colts for Luck vs drafting any of the guys coming out this year.

Luck is probably available and could be had for a reasonable price. I’d give the #1for him if he is healthy. If we stay at #1 I’m inclined to take Barkley the BPA and maybe use our other pick on a QB and/or signing McCarron via FA

Rosen shoulder and knee injury worry me...he has already had surgery on that shoulder once that’s a big risk for an unproven guy...Luck for example is proven and can come in and tear things up day one. If we really want a QB that bad...talk to the Colts in the weeks leading up to the draft...I think they are willing to make a deal considering how hot the rumors were before the trade deadline...Luck wants out is my understanding. He is certainly worth the #1 pick and solves our web issues for years

Will you provide more information on his "knee injury?"

For me this is a no-brainer to select a QB at the #1 overall pick.

My choices:

1a) Josh Rosen

1b) Sam Darnold

Since we have the #1 pick, I don't think it's necessary to list any other options.

I think both will succeed in the NFL. However, I would take Rosen over Darnold at this point unless it is discovered Rosen just does not have a true passion for the game.

Take the QB #1, commit to him as an organization and support him without wavering. This is the #1 pick after all, not a 3rd round pick, not a late second, not a late first. Everyone (organizationally) needs to be on the same page in order for the guy to succeed.

Head coach Jim Mora confirmed to the media on Monday what had been previously suspected to be the injury that has kept Josh Rosen out of the last two games: an injury to his throwing shoulder.

Perhaps someone with a medical degree can translate for the untrained, but Mora inferred that it was a nerve issue in particular.

"The nerve has to start firing again, and it’s really, once it starts firing again, he should be fine. It’s just a matter of when’s it gonna start firing again," Mora said. "He’s been trying to throw, it just hasn’t gotten to a point where he can cut it loose yet."

https://www.bruinsnation.com/spaulding-r...ut-rosen-injury

Rosen first left the game late in the second quarter with an apparent leg injury and was replaced by former walk-on Mike Fafaul, who finished the first half and started the second. After two drives to start the second half -- one resulted in an interception and the other in a punt -- Rosen returned in the third quarter, and the offense began to click

http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...tate-sun-devils

all I could dig up my man

I am not sold on any of the college QBs. They all have questions surrounding them. I guess that will be where Dorsey earns his money. Finding the right guy. I would be perfectly happy bringing back Kiser along with aquiring a veteran like Keenam or Smith. We can't depend soley on Kiser and a rookie. Of the college QBs I've seen I like Darnold the best.

1A. Sign a vet. First would be Cousins. You can't sign him if you don't try. If we could sign him, we could pass on a QB at the top of the draft and allow Kize to keep developing as the back-up. Maybe draft a QB in round 2-3.

1B. Bring in Alex Smith to take control of the position for a year while we bring along our drafted QB

If we go with plan 1B, then we draft Rosen at #1 as a continuation of that plan. I think he has a fairly complete game for the NFL. Let him learn under Smith or some other vet with the plan for him to take over in 19....maybe the last few games of next year.

I like Rosen, but if after all the dust settles and we go with Darnold, Mayfield, Jackson or whoever, I have to trust the teams evaluation process.

LOL..........I know. I couldn't find anything either. I didn't want to accuse KOB of making things up, so I gave him the opportunity to prove that Rosen had suffered a knee injury.

Lamar Jackson is Russell Wilson, if Russell Wilson were 3 inches taller and wore a jet pack (and had come out before transferring to Wisconsin.)

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/russell-wilson-1.html

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/lamar-jackson-1.html

Would post a side by side of the stats, but have to run to an exam and getting the formatting right would take too long.

It's not just the stats, but I think Lamar is the only guy who can do what Wilson is doing and basically put his team on his back.

Lamar just loves to ball and keeps getting better.

I like Rosen, too, but I'm not sure he loves the game as much. I also worry about what happens when Joe T is no longer around. Jackson gives you a little more margin for error on the OL. Also can simplify Defenses when they have worry about spying and contain.

I believe it's Baker Mayfield and it's not close.

Not drafting Wentz, we have a chance to forget about that, however it appears we are going down the same path... Much like #2 was too high for some to take Wentz, #1 is too high for Mayfield. People questioned Wentz's competition, people are questioning Mayfield's competition.

Mayfield has a terrific arm, is very accurate, leads his receivers with the throw for YAC, he may be the best pocket passer in the draft, throws very well on the run and under pressure. I think he does have footwork issues, but he's been compared to Favre and Wilson.

He's the missing leader of men for the Browns. He was demoted from being captain and his teammates carried his jersey to midfield. Love it!

Unfortunately some people want to peg him as the next Johnny Manziel. Nothing could be further from the truth. He plays with passion and attitude. I think his arrest and on field antics (planting flag, crotch grab) are being blown way out of proportion. I do like that he owns his mistakes. But I think I'd love it if he went to Cincinnati, Baltimore, and Pittsburgh and planted a Browns flag after a win. Love it!

I want a guy who is going to come in, work hard, and lead our players to victory. Something we sorely need. I was laughed at when I said Rosen is more like Johnny than Mayfield, but I still believe it's true. Mayfield loves football and his teammates, he gets it. I have concerns with Rosen. Seems more like a "me" guy. I think Rosen is very talented and would be a solid consolation prize to Mayfield, but Mayfield is simply better almost across the board.

I think Mayfield will have the best career out of all the quarterbacks in this draft and I don't like the playing of games with the future of the franchise. If he's the guy, draft him #1. Don't take a chance someone else will pass on him because he will be gone. I have no doubt that Mayfield will probably be a top 5 pick. We can't risk waiting on him.

I like the talent of Rosen, but reading the two links below, one sounds more like Johnny than the other. It's probably not a fair comparison because neither are Johnny.

Rosen has had issues with coaches in the past, and I dunno i just get a bad vibe. I think Mayfield, a two time walk on has proven he's everything you want in a quarterback, plus he wins. His numbers suggest it's almost like he's playing a different game, and I am excited to watch him carve up the defenses in the playoffs. The choice is easy in my mind. Mayfield.



Mayfield

Rosen

J/C

I think it is literally going to come down to draft day before I'm comfortable with who I personally would select.

Right now, I see the 2018 QB class as two options; Josh Rosen, Sam Darnold.

I'm currently leaning towards Josh Rosen. I see a lot of people saying his NFL comparison is Matt Ryan, and I'm inclined to agree with that but it is hard to say because my opinion on that is clouded by the QB that Ryan has become - it's too far removed to remember him vividly as a prospect. I think Rosen's ceiling is Matt Ryan, and his game is polished enough for me to feel like it won't take a miracle to reach that ceiling.

I can't shake Darnold, though. He wow's me a lot more than Rosen, but he also makes me cringe a lot more, too. Without some of Darnold's ugly plays, I'd have him #1, but they can't be overlooked. He's an absolute baller, however. Watching him play is a joy. He lacks the refinement and precision of Rosen, but he's got a whole lot of special to his game. If he finds the refinement, he could be amongst the best.

I don't yet know the difference between being "safe" and being "overly cautious." Perhaps the easiest way to say it - If I had to pick one to start a game for me, I'd pick Rosen. Based on how he plays now, there is a trust and comfort in what he can achieve at the next level. But if I had to pick one to give the ball with 2 minutes left in the 4th down by 6, I'd pick Darnold.

I do like Baker Mayfield but I'm heavily uncertain. I think he's closer as a prospect to the Rosen/Darnold level than he is to the Lamar Jackson level, to be honest.

Still a long way to go, but if I had the pick now, it'd be Rosen vs Kizer, and I'd legitimately give Deshone Kizer the opportunity to win the starting job next year.

j/c:

Here is a quote from Rosen's coach [Jim Mora] about his ability, work ethic, leadership, relationship w/teammates, etc.



That was from the link I posted earlier.

The coach who got fired.

Are you suggesting that he doesn't know more about Rosen than we do?

I’m suggesting that with so much ability like he claimed, he either didn’t maximize josh Rosen’s skill set like a good coach should, or he’s just hyping up his players for the draft like any coach would do.

I really don't want to argue, Swish. I was just refuting a claim made by another poster who said that Rosen didn't get along w/his coaches. I didn't call the poster out. I simply posted a direct quote from his coach. I hope that is okay?

Isn’t that the entire point of a message board? To discuss topics and debate ideas?

This isn’t a online diary. If you just want to post without people responding to you, then start a blog.

What?

I did respond to device's claims. I responded w/an actual quote from Rosen's coach.

Sigh.

You asked me we somehow knew more than Jim Mora, and I responded.

Anyways, I’m surprised that we talk about QBs who run getting injured, but people are either ignoring or making excuses for the fact that Rosen already has an extensive injury history as a pocket passer.

Combine that with his leadership and work ethic concerns, that sours me on ever considering him for #1 overall.

Jackson, Mayfield, or Darnold.

Extensive? Are you including that wretched knee injury?

Knee injury.

Hand injury.

Shoulder injury.

Concussion.

I mean damn bro, I’m not saying he’s glass, but I don’t want us drafting another Sam Bradford:

All the talent in the world, but can’t stay on the field.

We’ve had more than enough of those kind of players on this team since 99.

Okay.............what knee injury?