DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum "The guys that were here before, they didn't get real players". - John Dorsey

https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot/status/941344300088033280

What is the point of saying something likes this?

1. What is a real player?

2. If you don't like the players, doesn't this just lower their value with other teams if you try and move them?

3. Why upset the players and turn them against you?

4. Is he specifically talking about Sashi Brown or is he also talking about Ray Farmer, Joe Banner, etc.?

I think John Dorsey was/is a good hire. He will probably be successful (both because I think he will do a good job and because of all the assets he has at his disposal), but I really don't understand why this is a necessary thing to say.

Fire him and Hue. The culture of this place is revolting. The Browns logo should be a snake eating its own tail. I feel so bad for the players.

He's right! It's been nearly 20 years since I've seen REAL Cleveland Browns football!!

We've had a few players sure but not a real football team with a hard-nosed attitude. We've stunk!

From Dustin Fox:


https://twitter.com/DustinFox37/status/941346151701401600

What is "REAL" Cleveland Browns football?

It makes it real easy to take credit when the team improves when you're in charge though (even though you walked into an almost perfect situation to build a team).

I don't know why anyone would make this statement. I feel John Dorsey is a good hire and will make us a winner in time. the guys we have here sure feel they are real players and I do also. We just need to focus our attention on acquiring IMPACT players. That could be what JD meant.

My guess is that we will get sort of clarifying statement at some point.

A long chess match between the Front Office and Coaching staff that takes place in Berea over a year or two.

Even if it is true (it is imo) you don't say that. This is one of the main reasons he was canned in KC. It is also the reason Hue is on borrowed time whether it be in 3 weeks or next year. He couldn't get along with a HOF coach in Reid so how do you think this is going to work with Hue once the honeymoon is over??

Guarantee all are fired by 2019. Hue will go within the year when Dorsey wins the next power struggle, and then lose the next with the new coach.

I haven't commented on Dorsey much because I wanted to see if maybe he had learned to mellow out and play nice with others, but this kind of stuff is his M.O. He is a very good talent evaluator imo and I'm glad it is him not Sashi picking this year with all of these draft picks. However, Haslem added yet another guy who is power hungry at times unprofessional, and difficult to work with yet again.

Again, I agree with the assessment, but you just can't say that........the freaking players are still in the building for God's sake.

Wheeels on the bus go round and round....round and round.

Most anything before the move.

It's been a crap fest since.

So "REAL" Cleveland Browns football is not being awful all the time. Got it.

That works!

AKA back-peddling.

Probably wasn't the best idea to say it but it's generating talk and interest! I like a little cockiness in a player and heck even a GM!
Choir boy, staight and narrow guys haven't really produced much for us.
Some insane, 70's Raideresque or Joe Turkey Jones type guys wouldn't hurt.

I disagree. Andy Reid wanted more power, just like he did in Philly.

I also think that Dorsey and Hue are going to work together. I think they are on the same page. That's going to upset the Hue Hater's, but there really aren't that many of them. They just talk a lot. LOL

He said GUYS. Plural. The only GUYS not here is Brown. GUY. Singular.

Ever think maybe he was referring to Farmer, Lombardi, Savage, Holmgren and Banner?

You know, the GUYS who have ONE 1st Rounder STILL on this team.

he may be buying himself some time ... saying how putrid our talent is, though I'm not sure I would have been so damning

should he have said that? probably not. Is it true..well when you're 1-28 hard to argue otherwise. I guess we will see this offseason if he replaces a bunch.

That's just an outright disgusting way to talk about guys in the locker room. I've said it a million times: Think it, say it to the wife, but things like that being said to the media aren't helpful, only hurt the team and later down the line are quite easy to be used against you.

We've got how many players on our roster brought in over the last two years? They now all think the GM is a $*%$head.

People can hoot and holler all they want - If those words left the mouth of Sashi Brown, Ray Farmer or Joe Banner, we'd be talking about a toxic environment that was establishing a clear disconnect between the playing roster and the staff.

That's a foul comment to publicly make about our team.

I hope he doubles down on his statement. We haven't added high value or elite talent to the offense in a few years. They passed on drafting franchise QB's, WR's and RB's who are now flourishing. They let go of defensive talent and veteran qb's. The Harvard boys just wasn't cutting it and it was obvious. Dorsey is right on. Give em hell John.

Motivation. Who's feelings is he gonna hurt? Real players? Not likely. I'm sure we'll hear some sort of "qualification" on what he meant, but I don't have a problem with it. Let's see who steps up and who folds. Gotta admit, dude has cojones. He's certainly not afraid to let people know who's in charge.

You don't crap where you eat.

Telling the players they suck a week into the job is not going to gain him any support.

Probably shouldn't have said it out loud, but as it turns out, he's not really wrong.

Unless you eat in a crapper. Which is pretty much where all our meals are served. Let the players prove they're worthy of praise, and they'll get some.

To me, it’s beyond obvious why he is saying it. He is an established football guy. What the Browns needed. He has had success elsewhere. He comes here and he is ready to work with Hue Jackson, who by many accounts around the league is a respected coach. Yet a lot of the media and fans here are calling for Hue to be ousted.

Maybe he is referring to the QB situation. Browns could have had Wentz or Watson or several other QBs. Instead they have Kessler and Kizer via draft. Maybe he is referring to the WR group. Why did Sashi allow the Browns to push forward with such a bad WR group this season? Why didn’t we make a trade for Kelvin Benjamin? Why bring in Kenny Britt? Why let Terrelle Pryor walk then try and unsuccessfully bring him back? Why draft guys like Ricardo Louis? Why release Brian Hartline, Travis Benjamin, Gary Barnidge?

Maybe he is referring to the kicker situation? Why get rid of Coons and Parkey to spend a draft pick on Gonzalez?

Maybe he is referring to the DBs? Why release Haden, Gipson? Is Peppers a good pick in the 1st round ?

Look I don’t want to burn our players down but the guy is ready to work with Hue. He probably wants the media to give Hue a break. He actually has a good outsiders perspective on this unlike the fans and the media because he is a professional football front office guy and he hasn’t been emotionally connected to this mess for the last couple years. Sashi didn’t make moves to put Hue in a position to win. Sashi made moves to make the team really young and basically tank. And that’s what they did and now people want Hue to get axed for the fact he has only won 1 game. There’s also been a lot of injuries to add on to this. Collins, Coleman, Joe Thomas, etc.

just said the same thing hue has been... people are shocked?

Browns' John Dorsey: 'The guys that were here before, they didn't get real players'


Updated 11:26 AM; Posted 11:11 AM

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/12/browns_john_dorsey_the_guys_th.html

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns new GM John Dorsey didn't hold back on his assessment of the previous regime, one that was 1-27 when Sashi Brown was fired last week.

"You know what? You've got to get a guy like that (Hue Jackson) players,'' Dorsey told the "Really Big Show'' with Aaron Goldhammer on WKNR 850, the home of the Browns today. "And you know what? I'll come straight out with it. The guys who were here before, that system, they didn't get real players.''

It was a strong condemnation of the analytics-based front office, one that didn't have an experienced evaluator on the executive team.

"As Bill Parcells would always say, 'you are your record' and you know what? There it is, so that's the truth-teller in this thing,'' said Dorsey. "And I'm going to do my darnedest to get Hue (Jackson) players.

"And that's all I can ask for, and that's all I'm going to do. I like the man.''

Dorsey also refused to paint himself in a corner and guarantee that Jackson will be back in 2018.

"I live in the present and I build for the future,'' he said. "Right now the sun's out, the tarps are coming out, we're practicing outside, we're getting ready to play the Baltimore Ravens and that's my sole focus. And then it's also getting familiar with the whole layout and the organizational structure.''

Dorsey's remarks open up questions about whether or not Browns Chiefs Strategy Office Paul DePodesta will be back.

The two watched Sunday's 27-21 loss to the Packers together in the owners' suite, and will try to determine if they're a match.

DePodesta is a pioneer in the field of analytics, and the Browns are going more towards a traditional approach now. The previous regime made 24 draft picks and 17 trades, and it resulted in one victory in two seasons, and the egregious errors of passing on Carson Wentz and Deshaun Watson.

Dorsey, who's spent 26 years as a personnel executive, has also made it clear that this is his team now, and he's not messing around.

"Let's be real we're 0-13, okay?'' he said. "So let's get this thing rolling. The only way to do that is to start to build this thing.''

Related: Dorsey praised Jackson and 'we have to get more players'

Dorsey also praised Jackson in an interview on the team's in-house radio show Cleveland Browns Daily on WKNR 850 on Wednesday, saying they speak the same language.

"It's great,'' Dorsey said. "It's just nice to be back in the environment where you can sit and go through football with real football guys. The interaction we have on a daily basis, it's 1:52 (p.m.) and we've probably seen each other four times today. So there's a genuine interaction amongst each other.''

Jackson acknowledged Monday that "it was much different'' reviewing the film with Dorsey, who played for the Packers for four years and then spent 26 years as NFL personnel executive, helping his teams to 19 playoff berths, 11 divisional titles, three conference championships and two Super Bowl wins.

said the two are "very much'' in sync on football matters and "that's what it's all about.''

Dorsey, who's already rolled up his sleeves and gone to work, said he sat in on the team meeting Wednesday.

"I just wanted to listen to Hue and how he went about things, and I'll tell you what -- he does such a marvelous of job trying to just kind of take those guys and express to them the urgency and the concerns,'' said Dorsey. "He basically was saying, 'let's make some plays, guys.' It was very refreshing to see what he had to present to the team today.''

Maybe I am just tired of the browns but I honestly dont give a damn what these guys say anymore. Its same speech over and over. Come in blame the previous guys so u can have as low of a bar as possible and someone to blame when u suck. been there done that to many times.

yea.. our win/loss record doesnt show we suck right?

J/C

I see it as much a vote of confidence for Hue as much as a condemnation of the players. I think he's saying with "You gotta get a guy like that players," that he IS willing to work with Jackson and thinks he deserves a shot with his players before truly evaluating him.

I have no problem with him saying it. If a player doesn't like it, he can step up and be a "real player" to prove the guy wrong. IF a player runs from that comment, then he's not the kind of player this team needs.

We were 1-15 last year. We're 0-13 this year. I don't see anything wrong with him having a firm grasp of the obvious. I've said before that some fans have overvalued the talent on this roster. They have. And obviously a real football guy understands that.

Dorsey and Hue. Gonna build a dynasty, y'all!

I figured you might..lol. I think your opinion of Dorsey will change greatly over the next few months (maybe weeks, but I still don't think Haslem will take the PR hit). He danced around Hue getting retained in this very press conference.

Again, he's a pretty good at evaluating talent imo, and I'm glad he's here for this draft with all the picks. However, he demonstrates the same type of personality and lack of professionalism that Haslem has brought in repeatedly since he bought the team.

This situation isn't going to get better until Haslem sells or dies....or goes to prison. It's nothing personal against Banner, Farmer, Pettine, Sashi, Hue, Dorsey, etc. They are symptoms of a larger problem that is the failure of Haslem.

Yes, having someone who is more PC but can't do the job has worked out so well for us to this point.

There are plenty of people who can do a great job and not be unprofessional......league is full of them. They aren't mutually exclusive.

Sashi sucked because he couldn't evaluate talent and was unprofessional. Banner alienated everyone in the organization (and apparently league if rumors are to be believed) not by sucking at talent evaluation, but by being a jerk. One is a bigger problem than the other, but both are eventually a problem.

Our entire defense was more or less rebuilt in 2 years. They have the best run defense avg/att in the league. But we don't have real football players.

And here we are with people rejoicing because it's about to all get blown up again and we've committed to retaining the worst HC in the history of the game....


It really is crazy...