DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Make Your QB Case

I like Darnold, because of the gritty ness of his game. He played better when JuJu was on the team, but he comes across as the more competitive of the two, the other being Rosen.

Darnold is the first QB I have liked since Luck.

I am ok with Rosen.

No to everyone else.

Todd McShay's first mock has the Browns landing Darnold with the first, and Barkley falling in to our laps with the Houston selection.

That would be absolutely amazing.

He also mocked Allen to the Broncos at what, 5? That's absurd. Allen isn't worth a top ten pick.

I don't see it, either. I can understand the perspective that someone will fall in love with Josh Allen, but the tape just doesn't match that ability.

He reminds me a lot of Christian Hackenberg coming out of Penn State. Incredible skill set, pro-style experience, but playing well below the level you would expect from someone who has all the gifts in the world.

I'd pass.

The more I watch the more I think we have to take Rosen or Darnold. Both will be good, and either will help this team immensely. One of these two guys and we're set at QB, IMO.

We could see 5 QBs go in the top 12. All these guys have kinda bunched themselves together.

Darnold 2016


Darnold 2017

Baker Mayfield

Thanks Mourg ... I Love Rosen, So Accurate on Every Level, Short, Medium, Red Zone, and Especially the Deep Ball (Josh Gordon), and He is Not a Stick in the Mud, the Guy Can Run if Necsacary ... Rosen Should Be and IMO Will Be Our #1 Pick ...

Really liked what I watched of Darnold and Rosen. However, if Rosen proves he has what it takes, in terms of loving the game, etc, he’s who I pick. Some of those plays were brilliant. Either we’re set.

No, I don't think so. But KOB said he hurt his knee. No one can seem to find that report. I don't think it is true.

This artice has some mention of it but not a lot of details

Jim Mora: Banged-up QB Josh Rosen 'has taken some horrible hits'

Oct 9, 2016
Kyle Bonagura
ESPN Staff Writer

UCLA lost 23-20 to Arizona State on Saturday night, but the Bruins' bigger concern might be the health of sophomore quarterback Josh Rosen, who suffered a pair of injuries in the game.

Rosen first left the game late in the second quarter with an apparent leg injury and was replaced by former walk-on Mike Fafaul, who finished the first half and started the second. After two drives to start the second half -- one resulted in an interception and the other in a punt -- Rosen returned in the third quarter, and the offense began to click.

The Bruins scored on three of their four possessions after Rosen returned, but he was knocked out of the game again late in the fourth quarter after being sacked by Koron Crump. Television cameras showed Rosen favoring his right, throwing shoulder on the sideline, and he did not return for the Bruins' final drive.

UCLA took over at its own 31-yard line down by three with 48 seconds left, and Fafaul was sacked twice and intercepted.

The seriousness of Rosen's injuries remains unclear.

"Josh is beat up. He is beat up," UCLA coach Jim Mora said. "He has taken some horrible hits because we can't protect for him."

It didn't help that the Bruins couldn't run the ball at all, finishing with minus-1 yard rushing on 23 carries.

With no running threat to worry about, Arizona State was able to ramp up its pressure on Rosen, repeatedly knocking him to the ground.

"We can't run the football at all," Mora said. "When you can't run the football and you have to throw every down then they can pin their ears back and come after you, which they do. Unfortunately we couldn't protect tonight, either."

During the game, Rosen passed Troy Aikman for sixth on the school's career passing yards list. Rosen completed 24 of 43 passes for 400 yards with two touchdowns and an interception against ASU. Fafaul was 3-for-11 for 44 yards with two picks.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/sto...tate-sun-devils

Not just this post or poster, but It is just hard to understand the logic that anyone could want a player who could arguably go #1 overall.
When you will little doubt "hold" #1 overall, and then saying you want to let 4, 5, 6 or more other teams have an opportunity to take him in front of you.

1. Barkley
5. Jackson

This allows us to have 4-5 offensive weapons on the field at once. I would also draft best WR available in the second round after CB, and FS.

I read that, too. The follow-up articles addressed that he did not suffer a knee injury.

See...........this is my problem w/guys who make false claims like KOB did. That is why I sometimes ask for links. They say it and people pretty much believe it. That's wrong.

We are posting on public message board. With that, there should be a certain responsibility to post honestly. I am not talking about opinions. We all have them and that is a different animal. However, one should not deliberately post false information to make one's opinion more relevant.

I agree with the general concept. But in this specific case, I don't think whoever posted about the knee injury did so maliciously. The media clearly put the information out there and it was seen by the original poster. You mention follow-up articles that say he didn't suffer a knee injury. I didn't come across those. I wasn't specifically looking for them but none the less, those rebuttal articles are not readily found. So This information was seen and other information was missed.

Here is another question. Which article is correct. I didn't see the article you are referencing but which one is the truth? Was that 2nd article a correction of this article or the result of spin from the UCLA/Rosen camp?

This has been in my mind too. If he hasn't had a knee injury, why does he often wear a knee brace? Unless it has become just a fashion choice, much like the single compression sleeve, it would suggest something has happened.

The medical at the combine will be important for him. He's already got a long list of issues, especially the nerve damage in his throwing shoulder, that are troubling.

Sam Darnold, Josh Rosen, Baker Mayfield, Josh Allen

Darnold - I think he has NFL top 10 QB type potential talent. I think he has a certain amount of the "it" factor. I think he makes those around him play better. I think he has the physical size and gifts as well as the mentality. On the downside, he's not as polished as Rosen IMHO. He's not as accurate as Rosen. However, he makes plays happen and for the long haul Franchise QB I take Darnold over the others knowing it will be awhile before he's ready.

Rosen - I like him the most as a pure passer. He has the size and can make all the throws and make them well. He seems to be NFL ready if that is even a real thing. I've heard knocks over durability and passion for football, but I'm not sure they are real. As a day 1 starter I would take Rosen over the rest of the field. I also think he will be a franchise QB possibly top tier.

Mayfield - Mayfield is this years moxy candidate. He plays the game with passion and is a gifted 'college' QB. But like Manziel, I'm not sure that will translate to the next level. If it does translate he would make a great pick up outside of the top 15 in this draft if Rosen and Darnold are gone. I think he has high potential / high risk pick written all over him.

Allen - He reminds me of Big Ben. He can make the all the throws. He's big, really big. And I like him a lot in this draft. If you are not sold on Darnold or Rosen for any reason, then Allen has to be the pick. He may well be the best of the three but my money's on the other two for the long haul Franchise Guy.

Yup, because if its on the internet it's most certainly true...

So about that knee injury...

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...rosens-comeback



See the huge brace on his knee:



Here is a view of that brace from the back, see it?



How does one end up with suge a huge brace on his knee Vers? Hmmm? I don't appreciate being called a liar. I was watching the game Rosen got knocked out of twice and he was favoring his knee when he left the first time.

him coming back into the game is NOT an indicator of him being ok...my best friend completely tore the Meniscus in his knee and went to work for 3 weeks(in construction) said the pain wasn't that bad, it wasn't found out until his wife kept nagging him and he went to the Dr and they ended up having to operate on it...so going back into the game is no indicator of anything.

you don't wear braces like that unless you have some sorta history of hurting your damn knee.

Lets also not forget the Shoulder Injury to his throwing shoulder that required Surgery

Oh and the Concussion

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/11/3/16605312/josh-rosen-injury-will-miss-utah-game

http://beta.latimes.com/sports/ucla/la-sp-ucla-football-notes-20171103-story.html

There are some LEGIT injury concerns with Rosen. Due to this wonderful law called HIPPA we will never know the full extent of why Rosen wears that knee brace unless he wants to tell us himself as his medical history is protected by Federal Law.

Make no mistake guys don't wear braces like the bulky one Rosen wears unless they have hurt that knee in past, or are afraid of rehurting it(meaning they hurt it in the past)

I am in no way trying to be malicious towards Rosen. I am just throwing some cold water on the hype train. The Browns could do far worse then drafting Rosen considering what we have drafted the last 10 years. I am just saying there are questions about Rosen that deserve further scrutiniy, and we shouldn't go off half cocked on who we are going to pick.

Nothing wrong with doing your homework on a guy...just going along with a hype train without doing some homework is not a good idea.

Again though, im just a liar so im done with this thread and any other further discussion on this issue. Merry Christmas...

I don't see anything about a knee surgery? Do you?

I don't see anything in KoB's post about knee surgery either. He guessed at a previous knee injury, given the large brace. Unless those things have become a fashion statement (doubtful) then I think it's safe to say Rosen had some sort of injury their that he's protecting with a brace.

J/c

For me personally I haven't looked in detail at these QBs. I mean I've watched them play but haven't looked closely. So there are very early broad stroke impressions.

With that said looking macro...the traits that make a QB successful/great are all different. Marino is different for Montana who's different then Elway is different then Brady etc...

If there is a 'must' mandate to draft a QB with the top pick then imho the Browns are picking more out of 'pressure' then team building but I digress.....

Anyhow if there is a 'must' mandate then Rosen seems like the choice because he's viewed as the safest pick. Relatively clean throwing motion. Decent amount of experience under center with some 'pro-style' concepts. Good size. Good production. And when you use the 1st round pick on a QB you want safe. Again me personally I don't think any of these QBs are #1 overall type QBs.

Darnold/Allen are too similar to Kizer. Darnold turns the ball over a lot (not that it puts me off of him as a prospect) and his mechanics are clean.
For people that are nervous about Kizer's accuracy I don't see how they can even seriously consider Allen. But for those that are okay with his accuracy he's still very raw...but it a good athlete and has a canon for an arm.

Mayfield/Jackson are my too favorite prospects to watch. But they seem like bad fits and tough sells IF they draft to appease the media outcry and fanbase.
I fall into the group that believes the most important ability a QB can have is the ability to make something out of bad play. To avoid a sack, extend a play, gain 1st downs, buy time for WRs to uncover etc. Its what Bill Walsh called spontaneous genius. Allen and Darnold have it to a degree but Mayfield and Jackson are top of the class in this regard. And if the early draft media are correct they're not 1st round guys...right now. And if the mandate is to take a QB early then they don't fit the bill and I'm sure would cause media/fans to freak.

I guess one can call something an injury that isn't serious enough to keep a player of the off the field for his next game. That's not serious enough to require surgery. That's not serious enough to really hinder his production.

That's not however what people first think of when you state a player has a knee injury.

That's actually pretty fair. Sometimes you just see the brace and can't unsee it.

I was just thinking, you could actually look at the "knee injury" from a toughness/character standpoint. The guy went back out there knowing they couldn't run it and still did his thing despite getting beat up.

And when he said "knee injury," I then asked:



I did some research before I asked the question. I didn't see any surgeries. I didn't see him missing games because of the "knee injury," so I was wondering what I was missing.

And I also didn't want people to run w/it and say he has this extensive injury history as a reason to not draft him.

I hope that is okay, oober????

I've been traveling and reading but unable to post this week - a little late to the show.

For the longest time I have been saying sign Cousins regardless of the cost. I think that viewpoint has changed in the light of the last 2 very good performances by Kizer. He's showing more flashes - and he's a rookie on a pretty bad team and he has had bad WR's to "help" him out most of the season so far ... so I want to give the guy a chance ... Cousins would be a 5+ year solution .... so my #1 preference is to sign Alex Smith and have Kizer learn behind him for 2 years. Heck maybe Kizer will push Smith after 1 year - but the goal would be for Kizer to sit and learn and refine for a year at least.

Option #2 - if we don't sign Smith or Cousins is to take a QB high in the draft. I haven't watched the QB class so it's not really fair to say I have a preference... That said based on what I have read and heard my top 3 would be:

1. Rosen arm talent/accuracy and natural ability to play QB is exciting and appealing. I mean off the charts appealing ... the huge question mark is his attitude, leadership and maturity.... and his injuries.

2. Darnold - proto typical size, grittiness and big play knack to win / come through in the clutch. Seems to have a lot of ability even if he's eclipsed somewhat by Rosen.

3. Josh Allen - Friend of mine who watches more college football than any person I know, multiple games every week, had said the Browns should take Josh Allen 2 months or more ago and said he was the real deal. It'll be interesting to see where he eventually falls in the draft ... I bet it's much higher than people are currently thinking/expecting.