DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum A John Dorsey-Alex Smith reunion in Cleveland makes a lot of sense

Kirk Cousins will be 30 when the season 2018 starts.

30 is still young for QBs now days. If we can get a good 5 years out of him, its a win.

I get what you're saying, but I still wouldn't classify him as being a "young QB." It doesn't actually matter as your point doesn't change because of how one person perceives him.

30 is young for a qb.

But, I am still waiting for some proof that backs-up your claim that JG would not come here.

Unless we land Cousins, Smith isn't a long term signing. If we're stupid enough to pass on Rosen and Darnold, then we NEED to move down because Rosen and Darnold are going 1-2. Which is why I think both will declare.

IF we're stupid enough to pass on Rosen and Darnold, we cannot move to far back.

IMO there's only 2 players that are Non QB worth Top 5 picks.

Fitzpatrick and Barkley. We can't afford to miss on those 2 if we're stupid enough to pass on Rosen and Darnold.

I'm still warming up to the idea of Mccarron.

Hopefully he wins his case and is Unrestricted. No picks involved. He'll sign here I think.

He knows Jackson's Offense. He'd be that Veteran presence. And I think he'd be OK being a #2. No QB controversy to be had. Especially if we take Rosen or Darnold.

Rosen or Darnold
Mccarron
Kizer

Is the PERFECT scenario.

how do you know we “would probably have jimmy g and a bunch of picks”. short answer is you don’t. just a silly thing to say.

I know if it was me I'd have done whatever it takes to make it happen ... I hate san fran getting another great QB ...

Too bad we didn’t just draft Jimmy G. Instead we drafted Justin Gilbert, Johnny Manziel and Joel Bitonio ahead of New England’s pick.

j/c

I read Dorsey intends to win the AFC North next year. That attitude may change everything we think we know about what he will do with the QB situation. It reduces Kizer's chance of starting, it reduces the chance of getting a QB in the draft who will start day 1, and increases the chance he will bring in a veteran to start right away. That being the case, I now believe it's possible he could pass on a quarterback with the first pick. I think it also makes a much stronger case for Mayfield, since that is the guy he seems to talk about most. I want Rosen or Darnold, but I think the chances of that happening have decreased because of that statement.

JMHO

I said that because Hue wanted JG. Did you miss that news? And I have also read that Dorsey wants to get Hue players. Did you miss that news?

Of course, I don't know for sure that it would have happened, but there are a ton of "silly" things said on this board and I find it ridiculous that you only took the time to point out my comment while letting much worse go.

j/c

I'm struggling to see A Smith as a Hue-scheme QB. What am I missing? I know Smith is pushing the ball more this year than in prior years...but other than the Dorsey connection, I don't see it.

I'm also a little worried he'll go crazy on spending cap money, which is one criticism that KC had of him because while the immediate success seen in stacking the roster was a positive, it cost them talent down the line when difficult decisions needed to be made, and also held them back from making additions as needed because of spending that didn't account for such an inevitability.

I love the mentality that he wants to turn it around so quickly, but I think this fan base would be thrilled with a .500 season. Not suggesting to aim for less winning intentionally, but don't sacrifice the long-term pursuit of winning a Superbowl at the expense of winning more games in year one.

One of the things I admire most about Bill Belichick is that he's not afraid to spend money, but it doesn't come at the handcuffed cost of losing the ability to retain key players down the line or to make adjustments from year to year. I hope that's the process that Dorsey is looking at.

Sustainability seemed to be a significant part of Sashi's 'Plan' and from what Dorsey has said to date, I wonder if he will sacrifice sustainability for short-term gain...

I fully expect it, actually.
If I'm betting, I'm betting that we will spend like drunken sailors hitting land for the first time in three months. Cap is gonna get burned up and when it comes to draft picks, there will be little thought given to the future.

HOPEFULLY, however, this is where DePodesta as Chief Strategist will chime in and be a voice of reason and keep things tempered.


That said - If we can come away from Free Agency with a starting-caliber CB, FS, LB... and maybe a QB, that would be significant.

J/C

I am not a Alex Smith fan, but he is at a point in his career, where he is gong to want a ring. I don't see him coming here at all.

Well gentlemen, I can only say this: He wasn't brought here to go .500.

Equating my post to a belief there is a "imaginary cap space trophy" is hyperbole.

Your suggestion of mindlessly spending money based on a philosophy of spending a predetermined allotment of cap space is awful, and would doom this team. NFL teams should never spend money just because they want to spend x amount of money, they should spend money on retention of players and signing of smart, available talent at the correct price. If the worthy players aren't there, forcing contracts is a terrible idea just because you only want $10M in cap space.

Free agency and re-signings is something Sashi did extremely well, but only because he was saved from himself for the most part.

For example, this offseason in which the Browns were too frugal for you? Re-signed Collins, Kirksey, Bitonio and Colquitt to long-term deals. That's a fantastic move to lock down four high-value players. At the same time, bringing in Zeitler, Tretter and McCourty were also fantastic additions.

Where Sashi failed?

Following the signing of a 4 year/$34M contract with Baltimore, Tony Jefferson revealed that he signed in spite of Cleveland offering him more money, citing that he doesn't play football for money and was swayed by Eric Weddle, who he specifically states PFF ranked their #1 safety.

I hope Jefferson still likes PFF, because he's currently their #39 safety while Kindred is PFF's #31 safety. Kindred is in his second season, is already better, and his contract is 95% less.

At the same time, Sashi was boneheaded to offer above-market value to Pryor and then, upon Pryor still wanting more, offering that to Kenny Britt in a desperate desire to fill the need. It stank of desperate need spending that hurt this franchise.

Sashi did the right thing in retaining players at an appropriate value, and signing the right free agents to the right contracts. The only time he stuffed up was when he offered overvalued contracts.

I'm not against signing free agents or trading for players on big deals, but they have to be the right players at the right price after considering the long-term implications and how it could impact future re-signings and the ability to resign current players.

Promising to win the AFC North in his first year just stinks of overzealously adding veteran talent to contracts that, to get them here, will have to be above market value. This rebuild requires much more patience and disciple in how players are added.

This will be our 3rd big draft. That means a lot of players off contract in 2020, 2021 and 2022. Personally, I would like to have the ability to re-sign those deserving of remaining rather than throwing cash around in a rush to win-now.

If I have to say goodbye to someone like Emmanuel Ogbah because Dorsey didn't consider this team's long-term potential, I might have to try shoot him.

Don't blow your load in a rush to get 10-6 when what really matters is being in a sustained positon to compete for a championship.

Sashi being gone means nothing - the key should be building through the draft and retaining our own talent.

True, but he was brought here to build a team that can enjoy sustained success in a strong position to compete for a Superbowl year in, year out.

Attempting to go better than .500 is great, but not if it is at the sacrifice of sustained success.

Alex Smith is not going to sign to be a backup. . .

I'm not bagging on Sashi (at least that's not my intent), but in hindsight we might have been too heavily weighted towards the future. Stockpiling draft picks and cap space is great and all, but you gotta cash those in at some point. I know you want your young guys to get all the playing time, but it won't kill the long-term vision to keep SOME vets.

At some point, you gotta make a move to win.

I think we have plenty of room to shift the balance without becoming that Philly Dream Team from a couple years ago.

The plan was pretty clear. It was to be bad (tank) for several years and build the team up through the draft. Playing, almost all, young players is the easiest way to ensure losing.

Which is one reason why I think he might have no interest in being a Brown.

If Dorsey and Jackson are planning on signing Smith but drafting a rookie QB with the #1 overall pick, I don't see him signing on to suffer for a year or two with a young roster, only to be replaced for the developed QB at, presumably, the time when the roster is ready to compete.

Dorsey just drafted someone to replace him in KC, he'll undoubtedly be aware the same thing would happen in Cleveland.

I agree with you. I think Sashi pulled it all down far too quickly and underestimated how much a young roster would struggle in the NFL. I think he believed it would be good enough to get to a point in which all the young talent developed in to their prime.

Sashi actually reminded me of playing Madden. He's 29? Nah, too old. He's 26, pretty expensive and only 84 overall? Screw that, trade him and draft a 78 overall rookie. This roster is going to be amazing in two seasons when they've earned a bunch of XP.

Sashi tried that in real life, and it doesn't work when it isn't a video game.

The same is true of trying to turn it around too quickly. Dorsey, just like Sashi, deserves patience to get it right and make appropriate moves. That's fair, but promising an AFC North title and saying anything less is unacceptable? That sounds like a guy who is going to try to rebuild the Philly dream team. This still isn't a video game, and this roster can't be rebuilt that quickly.

We were tanking.

I don't think so. Garrett is awesome, but you're only tanking for an elite QB like Andrew Luck. The Colts swearing the best QB they can find is Curtis Painter is tanking.

As sad as it is to say, I don't think they needed to make an active effort to lose lol.

Sashi Brown is a smart man. Playing, basically, only first and second year players is a stealth tank. Also, the trading for future picks, creating tons of cap space, etc.

This was the plan all along. Folks are forgetting that we're not even a full 2 years into that original plan (that is now blown up). First year was a tear down; this past offseason was laying groundwork and obtaining more capital and cap space to use once that foundation is laid.... next offseason was ALWAYS the one being targetted to begin making bigger moves.... everyone was too damned shortsighted an impatient to keep this in mind, however. None of the above is new or news.

I don't think that plan has changed. the didn't blow up the whole FO, they replaced sashi. they said PD is staying and will have input, etc. I think there is more to the shashi firing than is being let on, and it has a lot to do with the trade deadline fiasco, even if they deny that.

I think it simply boils down to one thing. Sashi had one priority above all else. Get a QB. He passed on Wentz and from what little we saw, probably Watson. At that juncture Haslam no longer trusted him to do that job. I didn't either.

To me that's abundantly clear. That's why the point was made right away that Dorsey's job was to get a QB.

Hue Jackson: Carson Wentz 'wasn't the right fit' for the Browns

By Dave Zangaro | NBC Sports Philadelphia September 07, 2016 4:43 PM

http://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/ph...ight-fit-browns

“Well, at that time, he wasn’t the right fit for us,” Browns head coach Hue Jackson said on a conference call with Philly reporters on Wednesday. “It had nothing to do with Carson. I think Carson is a tremendous person, player and has a bright future. At that time, we decided to go in a different direction.”

Everybody is on Watson. I counter with what 6 games in the NFL running around?

I'M not even CLOSE to proclaiming Watson a MISS.

Lets see what next year brings now that DC's will have a LITTLE bit of film. And OH BTW, why is he out for the season? In PRACTICE. PRACTICE? We talkin' bout' PRACTICE.

See what he's got when he KEEPS on running around in the NFL. SMH at these QB's that do this BS.

It seems that, at a minimum, Hue bought into the decision to pass on Wentz.

One injury isn't a sign of anything. And in case you missed it, I said "probably". We also whiffed on every average or above FA signing. But here will come the excuse machine. lol

And it was an ignorant plan. An football team simply can not afford to lose so many games w/out expecting heads to roll. I called it right off the bat. The blame game starts and w/so much time between games, it is talked about constantly.

I'm glad we have the picks and cap space. But, I am even more happy that we finally have a guy who should know how to use both much better than Sashi did.

I think most people are pleased. Check out your own polls on the K-9 forum. The guys who are crying about Sashi and blasting Hue are in the minority. Y'all talking more than the majority isn't going to change those numbers.

You didn't just call it, you did everything in your power to campaign for it. You cheered when it happened and when Hue is fired in a few weeks you'll try to take to take the opposite stance and say it was a huge mistake and the franchise is not set back.

Sashi was really the only thing keeping Hue here. Once Jimmy was willing to blow up part, he was willing to blow up the whole.

Just before Sashi was fire he was saying they should keep all in place and maybe give Sashi another football guy.

You're right. What is your point?