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mgh888 #1373821 12/15/17 11:36 PM
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I wanted Sashi to stay, too. I used to criticize him, but I've always been about continuity. I thought the plan was dumb because it's so hard to endure so many losses in football. Just not enough games in the season. But, once we made the plan.......I said we should stick w/it. I think some people misunderstood my criticisms for wanting him fired. Heck, I even had something about no more firing in my sig for part of this year.

The bye week was tough and revealing. I thought Sashi would be fired that week. You just can't allow that. However, when JH didn't do anything......I was holding out hope that Sashi and the coaching staff could work out their differences.

If the reports of them not speaking for months are true........someone had to go. It was either Sashi or pretty much the entire coaching staff because the new HC would want his own staff. Haslam, for once, made the right choice.

I am now more hopeful for the future w/Dorsey and Hue, but as a long-time Brown's fan, I have to admit that I think they might do something really dumb...........like firing the coaches.

You know what really gets to me.........I have a lot of family members and friends who are Steeler fans. They actually say they feel sorry for me. That pisses me off. I don't want to anyone to feel sorry for me and other Brown's fans. I want to freaking win and shut them the hell up!

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j/c...

I hope the 49ers fall flat on their face and don't have a 8-8 or better season for the next 10 years. And we go on to success...in your face players who don't want to come here. In your face to the sports journalists who just demean us any which way they can!

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+1 thumbsup


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eotab #1373922 12/16/17 10:47 AM
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tab, JG has never been quoted as saying he didn't want to come here. It was just some reporters speculating because our team has been so bad.

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Ok well I still hope he falls flat odds are he wont but why I said 49ers....tired of these journalists...they want to go to bed with the 49ers...good, hope they are terrible.



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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Now that Sashi is gone, this franchise is looking up. We have a lot of picks and cap space. Dorsey wants to win now. Don't listen to the half-dozen or so haters, this franchise is trending upwards.


Sure hope so. I've been on this board awhile. Since original DawgTalkers. There's only been three seasons where I've seen any hope. William Green Rookie Year (God that was exciting), DA 10-6 with KW2, Winslow, and BE. And when we were 7-4 with the Kyle Shannahan/Brian Hoyer connection.


It's just really hard not to feel beaten down.

I'm excited about Dorsey, but bad things always seem to happen to this franchise. That's why I fear that the Rookie QB we want will refuse to sign with us ALA Eli Manning and John Elway.


Jesus I wish we could have just gotten Garapollo. I was pretty pissed when I saw that trade go down. Even if he didn't want to come here, we could franchise tag him or transition tag him. I think he was a freakin RFA next year. So we'd have a minimum of two years with him before having to make the long-term deal work.

Get the guy and worry about the details later. A 2nd and 3rd would have done it. We got two extra 2nds and and extra 3rd for goodness sake.



Either way, hopefully we got the right GM and we can look forward instead of backward.


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Originally Posted By: PeteyDangerous
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Now that Sashi is gone, this franchise is looking up. We have a lot of picks and cap space. Dorsey wants to win now. Don't listen to the half-dozen or so haters, this franchise is trending upwards.


Sure hope so. I've been on this board awhile. Since original DawgTalkers. There's only been three seasons where I've seen any hope. William Green Rookie Year (God that was exciting), DA 10-6 with KW2, Winslow, and BE. And when we were 7-4 with the Kyle Shannahan/Brian Hoyer connection.


It's just really hard not to feel beaten down.

I'm excited about Dorsey, but bad things always seem to happen to this franchise. That's why I fear that the Rookie QB we want will refuse to sign with us ALA Eli Manning and John Elway.


Jesus I wish we could have just gotten Garapollo. I was pretty pissed when I saw that trade go down. Even if he didn't want to come here, we could franchise tag him or transition tag him. I think he was a freakin RFA next year. So we'd have a minimum of two years with him before having to make the long-term deal work.

Get the guy and worry about the details later. A 2nd and 3rd would have done it. We got two extra 2nds and and extra 3rd for goodness sake.



Either way, hopefully we got the right GM and we can look forward instead of backward.


If that is TRUE why didn't New England say hey Sashi give us a 2 and 3 and he's yours? Why did they keep saying he wasn't on the block? saywhat

Vambo #1374005 12/16/17 03:01 PM
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Quote:
If that is TRUE why didn't New England say hey Sashi give us a 2 and 3 and he's yours? Why did they keep saying he wasn't on the block? saywhat


Beats me.

But why wouldn't they trade him for more than they got from the 49ers?

My buddy who was a Pats fan was upset when he saw the trade.

I find it hard to believe, the Pats decided to be nice to him or something, and not send him to Cleveland. Maybe they didn't want him in the AFC. But I don't think it was "Doing him a favor" or something like that.


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Originally Posted By: Vambo
If that is TRUE why didn't New England say hey Sashi give us a 2 and 3 and he's yours? Why did they keep saying he wasn't on the block? saywhat


I never saw anywhere that it was reported or stated that the Browns KEPT asking the question, can you provide a source or where you heard that ?? ... The Browns FO should have been asking, that's their job/due diligence. I did hear Peter King state that the 49ers DID keep asking the question .... and they were rewarded with a trade. Peter King also indicated the Browns basically accepted the JG wasn't for trade and didn't stay in touch and keep asking the question....

Last edited by mgh888; 12/16/17 03:16 PM.

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Originally Posted By: PeteyDangerous
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If that is TRUE why didn't New England say hey Sashi give us a 2 and 3 and he's yours? Why did they keep saying he wasn't on the block? saywhat


Beats me.

But why wouldn't they trade him for more than they got from the 49ers?


My buddy who was a Pats fan was upset when he saw the trade.

I find it hard to believe, the Pats decided to be nice to him or something, and not send him to Cleveland. Maybe they didn't want him in the AFC. But I don't think it was "Doing him a favor" or something like that.


That's the $100,000 question. They were OK giving 2 and 3 for AJ so why would they not for JG?...Pats didn't give them a chance is the only thing I can figure.

mgh888 #1374018 12/16/17 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: mgh888
Originally Posted By: Vambo
If that is TRUE why didn't New England say hey Sashi give us a 2 and 3 and he's yours? Why did they keep saying he wasn't on the block? saywhat


I never saw anywhere that it was reported or stated that the Browns KEPT asking the question, can you provide a source or where you heard that ?? ... The Browns FO should have been asking, that's their job/due diligence. I did hear Peter King state that the 49ers DID keep asking the question .... and they were rewarded with a trade. Peter King also indicated the Browns basically accepted the JG wasn't for trade and didn't stay in touch and keep asking the question....


I never saw anywhere that it was reported or stated that the Browns didn't keep asking the question, can you provide a source or where you heard that ?

If you wanted to get the most from something you wanted to trade would you tell as many people you could as to get the most or tell only one person and hope others will ask after you repeatedly told the you were not trading him.


Quote:
Schefter said the Patriots called the 49ers to pitch the trade and it took five minutes to get it done, which makes sense because the 49ers got a steal. San Francisco had to be shocked it fell in its lap like that. Schefter said he thinks the Patriots reached out to the 49ers because of Bill Belichick’s respect for Garoppolo, and his respect for 49ers coach Kyle Shanahan and their GM John Lynch.


https://sports.yahoo.com/patriots-wanted-right-jimmy-garoppolo-didnt-trade-browns-145348406.html

mgh888 #1374056 12/16/17 07:19 PM
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I agree w/this. I read where the Brown's interest before the draft was luke-warm. I don't think they stayed after it. Apparently, SF did.

I think this was yet another huge reason for the divide between the coaching staff and Sashi.

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I have zero proof of this, but it seems logical to me:

I think that Garappolo told the Browns that there was 0 chance that he would re-sign with them, and that ended the interest Sashi had in him.

There was no way that Sashi would have given up picks, a commodity that we all know he valued, without an extension in hand. (or at least the understanding that they would work on one)

I think that we were done once Garoppolo said that there was no way he'd sign a long term deal here.


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Wouldn't that have been tampering? Are you allowed to talk to players from other teams about contracts and trades?

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Quote:
I think that we were done once Garoppolo said that there was no way he'd sign a long term deal here.


When did that happen?

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Quote:
I think that Garappolo told the Browns that there was 0 chance that he would re-sign with them, and that ended the interest Sashi had in him.


Isn't he a RFA after the year? So, theoretically, we could have thrown the maximum RFA Tag on him 1&3 and then franchised/transition tagged him next year. Who would be able to beat us with a transition tag? We have the cap space to win that battle

We tell him that it's either that or he signs a normal extension. I bet he'd have signed.

Had we traded for him, the ball would have been in OUR court.


I think a lot of this stuff is reaching. As Vers said, I think Sashi dropped the ball. One of the main reasons he got fired.



The only other reason would be New England doing him a favor. And I just don't see that being the case. That or New England not wanting to trade a potential franchise QB to the AFC

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I agree w/this. I read where the Brown's interest before the draft was luke-warm. I don't think they stayed after it. Apparently, SF did.

I think this was yet another huge reason for the divide between the coaching staff and Sashi.



So the Brown's which include Hue interest pre-draft was low and they didn't stay after it...hmmmm

You may be onto something here! thumbsup

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Wouldn't that have been tampering? Are you allowed to talk to players from other teams about contracts and trades?


Not if we were currently in discussions with his current team regarding trading for him.... the Patriots could have easily said "see if you can work a long term deal with him".


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Thanks, I never heard of that before.

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Originally Posted By: PeteyDangerous
Quote:
I think that Garappolo told the Browns that there was 0 chance that he would re-sign with them, and that ended the interest Sashi had in him.


Isn't he a RFA after the year? So, theoretically, we could have thrown the maximum RFA Tag on him 1&3 and then franchised/transition tagged him next year. Who would be able to beat us with a transition tag? We have the cap space to win that battle

We tell him that it's either that or he signs a normal extension. I bet he'd have signed.

Had we traded for him, the ball would have been in OUR court.


I think a lot of this stuff is reaching. As Vers said, I think Sashi dropped the ball. One of the main reasons he got fired.



The only other reason would be New England doing him a favor. And I just don't see that being the case. That or New England not wanting to trade a potential franchise QB to the AFC


Yeah, moves like that would have had him soooo happy to be here and playing for us, lol

If folks go back through these threads, there is a commonality: we can all think of about a dozen different reasons why they would NOT have wanted to trade him here, and we can only think of ONE as to why they WOULD (draft picks).
So, what's more likely: they were not going to trade him here at all or "the FO failed to get it done"?

Personally, I find the notion that Belichick was taking care of his player (not sending him to this franchise), taking care of his team (not trading JG within the AFC while getting something for a player he was not going to get to keep long term), and avoiding dealing with a team that it has been reported is difficult for him to deal with all in one shot to be the absolute MOST plausible. Players don't want to be here, teams don't want to work with us, football guys can't wait to see the Harvard guys fail, etc...


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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I seriously doubt that BB feared trading JG to us because we are in the AFC. LOL


I have read a lot of excuses for Sashi over the past couple of years. Schwartz, Mack, Wentz, Gipson, Garoppolo, 3 QBs who have never even won an NFL game, etc....... Seems like a pattern.

I think Sashi was terrible. Glad he's gone and we have Dorsey here.

I think Dorsey will work w/Hue rather than undermining him.

JMO

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I seriously doubt that BB feared trading JG to us because we are in the AFC. LOL


I have read a lot of excuses for Sashi over the past couple of years. Schwartz, Mack, Wentz, Gipson, Garoppolo, 3 QBs who have never even won an NFL game, etc....... Seems like a pattern.

I think Sashi was terrible. Glad he's gone and we have Dorsey here.

I think Dorsey will work w/Hue rather than undermining him.

JMO


Enough with the undermining crap. You are spreading a completely made up agenda. No matter if you think Sashi did well or not, he tried to do the best he could. Any sane person would.

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I believe Sashi dropped the ball, Bill didn't want to trade Garrapolo in the AFC, and Bill wanted to make sure he got Hoyer as a backup QB since New England didn't even have another QB on their roster. We had three strikes against us when it came to getting Garrapolo.


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Originally Posted By: GMdawg
I believe Sashi dropped the ball, Bill didn't want to trade Garrapolo in the AFC, and Bill wanted to make sure he got Hoyer as a backup QB since New England didn't even have another QB on their roster. We had three strikes against us when it came to getting Garrapolo.


I believe this was the key factor influencing the trade. If Brisette had not been previously traded (Indy), then possibly the trade may have turned out differently...


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Originally Posted By: GMdawg
I believe Sashi dropped the ball, Bill didn't want to trade Garrapolo in the AFC, and Bill wanted to make sure he got Hoyer as a backup QB since New England didn't even have another QB on their roster. We had three strikes against us when it came to getting Garrapolo.


People who don't think Hoyer was a factor in the Pats' decision are crazy.


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Its been very tough...to be a Browns fan that is for sure.

The formula to become competitive is not that difficult. Its amazing in all these years we haven't been able to achieve it.

I think the best opportunity was when we hired Mangini...talk about not having players. We didn't. Its a shame he put in all his trust with Kokinos who was more interested in bedding his mistress than doing his job here. Shame Randy threw up his hands after that Kokinos experience and decided to step aside and hire a Czar... which sounded like a good idea at the time but just another fiasco.

Davis had success cause he was in complete control. Mangini with complete control would have been successful also. He built a good Jets team that went to the AFC Championship game twice in a row after he left there. He started to change our culture here. He didn't let players goof off, he ran them if they made mistakes in practice (he had refs calling penalties) he ran them if they fumbled. Miss tackles.

I found running to be the best negative reinforcement that actually got the players in better condition. But big men,
hate to run (laps)

Anyways. moot point. I can only hope that Dorsey and Hue don't just have a short Honeymoon but instead have a long Marriage

jmho


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I agree that Hoyer was the most compelling factor - and maybe the only consideration for BB. I do not believe BB would service his players interest ahead of the team and I don't believe he would be afraid to trade JG to an AFC team, certainly not a bottom feeder like the Browns are. . . . Hoyer was definitely the x factor imo.

With that said - Sashi and co also dropped the ball and stopped pursuing JG. The 49ers reportedly did not. (per interview with Peter King 850am).

So while Hoyer was a big piece of the equation - I don't think it is credible to suggest that there was no way that the Browns could have offered a better deal that would have netted them JG. . . . For a start, what would the 49ers have accepted for Hoyer? Would they turn down a 3rd round pick? How about a 3rd and a 5th round pick? No way in hell would they turn it down. So our first 2nd round pick and a 3rd and a 5th would be a steal for JG imo ... heck - the Browns could have traded for Hoyer and then packaged him to the Patriots. But any opportunity to explore options was missed because the FO simply accepted JG was a no go ... that was a failure of responsibility given how good JG is and how much Hue reportedly coveted JG.


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Any team in the league could have had Hoyer for a sausage after he was benched as starter. We could have offered the Niners either Kessler or Hogan and a late round pick, and I bet they would have bit.

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I tend to agree - but Hoyer does know the Pats and the system.

They basically want insurance. They are a SB favorite - and they have the GOAT at QB ... but he's 40+ and so they want a capable back up 'just in case' ....


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j/c:

There is no doubt that Hoyer was a factor in NE trading JG to SF. I haven't seen anyone say it wasn't a factor.

On the other hand, I will never believe it was the only factor.

I think that Sashi had some interest in JG, but stopped pursing after NE didn't trade him before the draft. I imagine the Browns could have put together that would have beat SF's offer if they would chosen to do so.

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Quote:
I think that Sashi had some interest in JG, but stopped pursing after NE didn't trade him before the draft.


I disagree. I believe the reports that the Browns peppered the Pats all year long with trade inquiries leading up to a few days before JG was traded. Namely because both Hue and the FO wanted him.


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We've seen this from Shefter, right?:

Quote:
“We don’t know this, so I’m theorizing here, but that trade fell into their laps. And it fell into their laps, I believe, in large part because Bill Belichick and the Patriots organization had as much respect and good feeling for John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan as they did. Because the Cleveland Browns had been calling the Patriots last spring over and over. They tried apparently this fall and never got to first base with them. And then Monday morning, the day before the trade deadline October 30th, 49ers just sitting there, and the Patriots call.

“Patriots: 'I think we're open to trading Jimmy G. You want him? Interested?'

49ers: 'Yeah.'

Patriots: 'Ok.'

“And that trade takes all of five minutes to agree to because the Patriots came to that point. Now, again, the 49ers are in the right conference, out of conference, but I'm telling you, I believe in my heart that the respect that Bill Belichick had for John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan factored into the decision to make that call to that place that morning.

“Now look, it didn’t drive, ultimately, you've got to get what you think is fair compensation but the time was right, New England had made the decision that they had to move on, and when it looked out at the landscape of NFL teams, I think they liked and respected the people with the 49ers organization. And, as much respect as the Patriots have for Jimmy Garoppolo, they wanted to place him in a place that they thought would treat him the way that they thought he should be treated, and that was the 49ers."

https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/12/15/...hick-john-lynch


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Garoppolo and 49ers do it again. This pathetic team is now 3 and 0 w/JG starting. Not bad for a "back-up qb."

Dude keeps leading his team back. Took over after TN scored late and he makes 3 great throws to win the game.

Shanny and JG is a winning combination.

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Well Vers, I digress, when your wrong and it looks like I was wrong on Garoppolo and you were right, he is looking like the real deal,I am a big boy I admit when I am wrong. I just hope someday this team gets it right on a QB, because what we think really doesn't matter anyway, its up to those choosing a QB to get it right. And in the end that was Sashi's downfall ...

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Vers, Tom Brady must have rubbed off on him!!!

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Thank you Jimmy G! Turned my Sunday into a winner!


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381 yards, TD, no picks.

8.9 yard average.


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he was certainly impressive today


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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JG's stats today:

31 out of 43 for a 72.1 completion percentage. 1 TD, 0 Interceptions. QB Rating of 106.8. Led to late game scoring drives to move to 3 and 0 as SF's qb.

This was a team that was challenging us for the worst record in the league.

Moving beyond the stats.......the dude is so accurate. He leads guys perfectly and they get YAC. He is cool and calm. He makes big plays on 3rd down.

I said this a couple of weeks ago and James Loften who was announcing the game and is a HOF receiver, said he looks so much like Montana that it's uncanny.

Same physical build. Calm. Cool. Accurate. Poised. Quick release. Goes through progressions quickly.

It's a thing of beauty.

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Posts: 5,362
Tom Bradyesque no doubt. He even looks like him and not just on the field.

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