DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Star Wars - The Last Jedi (!!!SPOILERS!!!)

Meh.

The little girl (10) liked it. The wife like it too. I....some parts were cringeworthy, some were okay and most were "meh". Kind of boring. It didn't feel like a "Star Wars" movie.

I read someone saying the prequels felt more like Star Wars movies than these last two. I agree.

As the title says "SPOILERS below"

How can the prequels feel more like star wars, the sequels are a complete rip off of the original?

I mean you had the jedi apprentice to go a remote planet to get trained by a Jedi master who has been hiding for years.

The rebel (resistance) base being attacked by AT's, on a planet that is covered in white (Hoth = snow/ new planet = salt), the resistance getting away and the Sith lord enters the base looking all angry.

Empire Strikes back showed off Super Star Destroyer, Last Jedi showed off the "Dreadnought".

The New Order commander failing in battle and getting force choked.

The charismatic gambler betray/back-stab the heroes.

Ghost jedi master visits live Jedi master.

Sith Lord asking Jedi to join them to defeat the Sith Master and rule the Galaxy together.

I'm sure I'm missing many other completely ripped references from the original trilogy. I get that they are going for a "this is all a circle" and true balance in the force means there will always be a Jedi and Sith, they are Ying and Yang. the symbol on the floor in the cave at the Jedi temple was a Ying Yang symbol.

At the end of the day though, I enjoyed the movie.

I had argued for years that Luke was flawed, he used fear and anger to defeat Vader, yes he held back and didn't fully give himself over to the dark side, but Yoda said "once you start down the dark path, forever will it consume your destiny".

Luke started down that path, again didn't fully commit, but that remained and was the reason he failed as a teacher, why he had that "fleeting moment" and why he was scared to train any more Jedi. I have read a lot of people upset at this fact and to me, it makes sense.

But that just me, I also like the prequels and Jar Jar didn't bother met at all. So take my opinion for what it's worth.

I know, I know...I am one of the few, BUT I am bored to death with this franchise and have been for many years. Totally no interest in it.

I'm about to see it in a few minutes. It is the first star wards movie I've seen in a theatre since 1977, or whatever the year was of the first movie. I've seen a couple others on video, but not in a theatre. Sci-fi just ain't my thing.

Overall I thought it was good, though it did feel like they tried to do too much. Then there are some smaller things that bothered me.

We didn't find out where Snoke came from or got to power

We didn't find out where Reye came from, who her parents were or how she is strong with the force.

The bombers in the opening battle, the bombs slide off a rack. There's no gravity in space, so...

Their Battle of Hoth remake was kind if disappointing, probably from trying to squeeze too much into this.

I didn't care for how Luke was portrayed.

On the casino planet, when they showed the race track, I thought for sure it was going to be podracers.

Definitely was a changing of the guard movie. With all the "New rebellion" talk. As whole, it was entertaining, just disappointed they didn't shed some light on questions we had since the last movie.

Just saw it, and I have to say I really enjoyed it. I feel like it was much better than The Force Awakens. Then again, I think I liked TFA walking out of theaters too, but then later realized all the problems with it.

I did have a few issues with it though. I feel like it ran really long for a SW movie. Almost felt kind of Lord or the Rings-esque, like they tried to cram too much into it. And like someone was saying above, they really lifted a LOT of the plot and imagery from ESB and RotJ. However, I don't feel like it was as bad as TFA, where I was literally rolling my eyes as they did a Death Star trench run.

I also didn't like that they really didn't bother explaining Snoke, or where the heck he came from. Somehow, a Emporer-like sith lord comes out of nowhere ... And dies, so who cares about explaining that one. You can also say the same about Rey, but at least she has another episode to explain her backstory. Lots of questions unanswered, but I guess that JJ Abrams for ya.

I didn't really care for what they did to save Leah either. Just felt sort of out of character for her. However, I liked what they did with Luke. They showed he was flawed and struggling with guilt, yet still a really powerful Jedi. I thought what we did at the end was way better than Yoda bouncing off of walls like Attack of the Clones.

Overall, I thought I really liked it. Although I reserve the right to reverse my opinion in my month when everyone points out the obvious plot holes I missed.

Watched it. Hadn't seen one since 1983.

Didn't expect to know what was going on.

It was easy to figure what was going on, except who was hero of the movie.

It only makes me want to see the other ones, 4, or 5 have missed, all I remember is the opening said chapter 8, or something.

The crowd was crazy weird.

There was a point when the screen goes silent for about 10 seconds,
Best part.

and there seemed a character that got introduced but not used, I guess they'll have to come back to that one later.

Maybe the most interesting part was even after the end I'm really not sure what happened, so it's not clear, which if you are going to make another movie, that helps a lot.

But on the other hand, sooo many things DiD happen, that I don't know how anybody could claim it's a disappointment.

At the start, I felt I didn't have any fond memories of any of the old Star Wars' movies, they were all the same and I'd probably just hate wasting 3 and a half hours.

Oh, first 20 minutes seemed like a Re-run,

what happened about 21 minutes from the end, who's eye was in that character, what was up with that?

At the end, I'd probably like to watch at least one of the movies I haven't seen yet, but it's just a movie.

Don't let anyone spoil this one for you. (What got resolved? I have no idea.)
220 million dollars, that's probably about it. Cha Ching, that's better than a Vegas Casino.

As someone who has been a die hard fan of Star Wars since I was about 6 (I was born in 1974) and saw Star Wars for the first time I have mixed feelings.

My main complaint was the goofiness and one liners was a bit much, of all of them the one that bugged me the most was the shoulder brush off by Luke.

I kind of choked up a bit when Luke died, I dont know, it just felt like a part of my youth died, but I will also say Luke was never my favorite. I thought he was a whiney little wussy and my favorites were Chewie, Han, and Darth Vader. But I was ok with ending Luke Skywalker, I felt it was time to move on from him and Leaha. This movie defintely felt like a passing down of the franchise to the next generation. Now, I watched it with my 18 year old son who is a sci fi geek and he loved it .

They copied quite a bit of the imagery and shots too. Like a lot of the "Hoth" battles, where the guys pile into the trenches with their guns, or look through the binoculars to focus on the incoming walkers.

The one I really noticed was when the Falcon was racing through the salt mines with the tie fighters following behind. It looked just like the scenes where they were trying to blow up the second death star. They didn't even try to hide it too, they played the exact same soundtrack to go along with it!

Random thought

how many defeats does the empire suffer before they realize to have defenses that detect small space crafts ?

Haha! I turned to my daughter in the middle of the movie when Poe was shooting out all the lasers on the Dreadnaught and the commander was complaining that the ship was too fast, and told her, "The Empire still hasn't learned their lesson!"

So....did they make the galaxy great again?

I liked it.

Of all the recent releases, Rogue One is probably my favorite though. That was so well done.

Millennial Vader was not as annoying in Last Jedi as he was in Force Awakens

Spoiler below....

I really thought Wren was going to jump to the rebel side and a new, and better villain was going to emerge. Meh, woulda been better

(((((((((((((( SPOILERS ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Seriously, don't read. LOL


I enjoyed it but man, there is plenty wrong with it. Same with Episode 7.

Negatives:
Too long. When they got to the final planet I couldn't believe we were in for a considerable amount of extra run time.

What would I cut out?

Leia's fake death. Good Lord, did Disney insist on a Mary Poppins shout-out?? That was lame and possibly the most non-Star Wars feeling moment yet. And how many of those are in the mostly awful Prequels to choose from?

To the casino and back! What a time filler this was. And our heroes were thwarted because of illegal parking.

Anti-climatic deaths. We got a dramatic death with some actual emotional impact from a character (Asian bomber pilot) we had just met but later find out Admiral Ackbar died in passing. How did Luke take the Han news? Who knows?? Glad I spent 2 years wondering about Snoke's background. Captain Phasma got out of the trash-compacter for what now?

Luke. I actually felt like they handled him pretty well. But I hate that this hero I grew up loving thought for even a second about murdering Kylo. In his sleep.

Positives:
Action and humor. That's about all I have. LOL

Luke was always a flawed hero. He failed in the cave with Yoda. He briefly turned to best Vader in-front of the emperor. I actually liked that he was imperfect. He should be. He was barely trained as a Jedi. It would make sense that he might have a fleeting moment of the dark-side, and then instantly regret that. We saw that when he fought Vader.

BIG SPOILERS!!!

My problems:

Poe prank calling the general guy in the beginning. That's not "Star Wars".

The bomber "dropping" those bombs on the First Order ship...with what gravity were those bombs dropped with?

The 1920's casino trip with Finn and that girl. Heck, the girl wasn't needed, the trip there wasn't needed, the illegal parking was lame, they never met the code breaker, but they find another one in the very cell they get thrown into who hadn't escaped until they ask him to, the awful jail escape on those "horses" and how the fake codebreaker knew to meet them on the cliff right where they were going to get caught.

We wait 2 years to know what Luke would do with the light saber....and he tosses it over his shoulder? Lame. A wise Jedi would refuse with quiet calmness, not throw it.

The Leia Mary Poppins thing was bad too. No Jedi's ever displayed that power, but Leia can all of a sudden?

If the resistance ships can go as fast as the First Order ships and therefore can’t catch them, why is there tension? It’s in deep space, there’s no friction slowing the ships down. If they’re both at top speed, you don’t need more fuel to continue at that rate.

Rey and Kylo look like they're going to join forces, kill Snoke (who we never find out who or where he came from) and they tease Rey going dark or Kylo going light....and then nothing comes of it. And we also find out the biggest tease of all, Rey's history is nothing. Not a sister, daughter, cousin, clone or anything special, just a person. Why spend all that time in #7 with her parents and why she has a special connection with Luke's light saber? Nope, all for nothing.

Laura Dern's character - She had a plan, didn’t share the plan that could have easily been explained to everyone but kept it a secret for no reason and also, the plan included allowing the other smaller ships to die on purpose. At any point she could have told everyone to get off the ship, turn the ship around and light speed into the destroyer saving everyone, including the secondary ships.

Also, ramming an Empire ship in light speed destroys it? Why wasn't that been used before? It would have made for a faster destruction of the Death Star each three times. Maybe you need more than one ship, but based on the destruction we saw, that looked VERY EFFECTIVE. And if we're not asking ships to sacrifice themselves, why can't missiles be created with that propulsion?

Also, just before the ship rammed the Destroyer, Captain Phantasm was standing over Finn and the girl ready to kill them while also being surrounded by a thousand+ bad guys. After the ramming event, all the bad dues are dead, Finn and the girl are fine and Captain Phantasm is then 300 feet away? How? And then, as someone said above, lets kill the Captain with no reason or explanation to why we should have cared about her.

Finn was trying to be the hero against that cannon and the girl stops him, why? Because she has romantic feelings for him? It's been like a day. Plus, she saved him not knowing Luke would save the day. It could have ended the resistance, but she risked it anyway.

Now is my biggest complaint. Why did Luke bother force teleporting to that planet if he was going to die/kill himself? The audience gets that "Holy Crap, Luke did what? Kylo can't kill him! Luke is the best Whoohooo! Oh wait, he's dead? Huh?"

Did any of that actually happen, they can go back and undue it in the next movie it's like a soap opera, he was only in a coma.

My favorite character is still my favorite character.
The firestarter.

I liked the red guys and the eye thing, that was pretty cool, and that chain snake kind of thing too.

There must be some significance to red palm bloom guy, because they gave them a full line and the leader was adamant it was the only one who could hack the computer. So they will be back with a storyline.

Luke was the last Jedi.

Kylo and Rey the new force users aka Gray Jedi are about to take over.

Going to poke some holes in your problems, just for the fun of it ...



"But, uh, everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here, now, thank you. How are you?"

I've heard a lot of people complain that the movie was too "funny", as if the originals never had any humerus moments in them. The franchise has always had a funny side to it and hasn't taken itself too serious. At least it's not the poop-jokes and slapstick that we got with the Prequels.



Since when has Star Wars ever cared about good movie physics? Sounds in space anyone? But at any rate, here's one of those "Extended Universe" type explanations that I can whip up for you to put your mind at ease: Gravity still exists in space. Objects are still attracted to each other. People walk around on those Star Destroyers rather than float and have since the first movie. Why? They probably have some sort of high density gravitational pull within the floors. (Yeah, lets go with that. I'm sure some EU thing explains it fully) That pull would still exist just outside of ship too, so technically bombs could fall toward it as well.



Won't argue much on this one. This felt down-right Prequel-esque. Right down to the bad-CGI animal riding.


I think you're suffering a little bit from ... um "old man" syndrome?



Agree about that one though. Leah hasn't shown any sort of prowess in the force at all, other than sensing close ones feelings, and suddenly she's Mary Poppins? I thought it sort of cheapened the scene, which could of been sort of a poignant death. Instead, they brought her character back when she really didn't serve any important purpose for the rest of the movie. (Nor showed any more force power).



Against with the physics ... I don't know if they said "top speed", but technically there is still a "top acceleration", which would actually make more sense in this instance. If alliance ships can accelerate faster than Empire ships they could pull away quicker. They could then slow down their acceleration to a rate which matched the empire's to conserve fuel. You would always be accelerating though as there is no "top speed" in space.



I think they are showing they are both flawed/conflicted. The whole movie seems to borrowing from The Matrix concept of the ying/yang where if there is too much "light" then "dark" will come from somewhere to balance it. My guess is that they will delve into this further next episode.



Just a guess here, but they COULD be setting us up with some huge misdirection. After Ep. 7, people were saying "She's Luke Daughter!" or "She's Obi Wan's Grandaugher!", it's possible that they wanted to drop that Empire-type bombshell in this movie similar to Empire ... but since everybody was already making guesses, they figured it wouldn't be very shocking. So how do they get around that? Show Luke not really caring much for her and specifically tell everyone that her parents were nothing special (with a character that might not really know). Now watch Luke come back in Ep. 9 as a ghost, Rey tell him that her parents were nothing, and he'll drop a "No, I'm your father".



I think she was trying to run on fumes to try and get in range of this uncharted planet. Her plan was never to kamikaze into the Empire ships, you can see her thinking of that at the last minute. They were hoping to stay cloaked and sneak the transports over to the planet, while the Empire chased the final ship. Maybe the secrecy was to prevent any sort of communication leak to the empire letting them know what the plan was ... sort of like how they told Finn the plan, and the code-cracker heard about it and told the empire?



Yeah, I had a big problem with that part. I could understand having the ship light-speed into the main ship and causing considerable damage to THAT ship, but having it jump around and take out ALL the other ships?? Come on now. That was waaaaay to magic-wandy.



Yeah again ... WAY too convenient.



Meh, I have no problem with that. They killed Tarkin with no explanation about him. Heck, they pretty much killed the Emperor in Jedi with just about as much backstory as Phasma had. They're bad guys. They try too look cool, and then die.



Because he finally realized he had to do something to help the rebellion. And that his sacrifice would be the start of something greater. Sort of like how Obi-Wan let himself die so that Luke and company could escape?

He also bi-located because he had no way of getting off the island (his ship was destroyed).


Back to the "old man syndrome". It sort of my own definition of it. Things you watch as a kid up through your 20's become near and dear to you. Music, Movies, Sports, etc ... nothing will ever match up to what you saw growing up. Whatever flaws it had, you are willing to overlook. When something new comes out, you try to compare it to that gold-standard you had from your youth and it will never match up. You always overlook the flaws from the old stuff and see nothing but the flaws from the new stuff. Even if they are the same flaws.

If you can kind of separate these new movies for what they are, then they aren't too bad. It's a new spin on the Star Wars universe. Let's just be thankful they aren't the prequels.

Yeah, I'm probably watching through "old man eyes" and they can't work as "kid eyes" anymore, but I kept reminding myself of that too. I wanted to like it, I even thought it would be better than TFA because they had to introduce characters and setup the plot which can bog the first movie in the series down, but I feel they threw all of that away and dropped a lazy piece of dung in my lap for $18.

This captures my thoughts as well. Glad I'm not the only one that saw these mistakes:

J/C

I enjoyed it, a lot. I thought it was better than TFA. I think they are trying to push away form the original characters now and make it standalone for Rey/Kylo (whom I thoroughly believe are brother and sister).

I really think Finn was out of place in this movie, he really had no relevance whatsoever, and it seemed forced the entire series of him and rose trying to shut down the GPS. (Really, GPS in the future). Anyhow, I equated it to a video game - when you have a side mission that means absolutely nothing to the story, has anything to do with the main characters, etc. I think they are lost with Finns character, JMO.

I think they are hurting themselves with barely having any Jedi or light saber battles. Two movies in, and there has been what, 2 light saber battles total? Hardly any Force use other than Kylo hear and there. Given Rey is learning and she because a beast at the end. But I want to see Jedi Powers.

I do think people are forgetting how often the talk about the balance of the force in the movies. Dark/Light, good/evil. Every time Rey was questioning herself and looking into the dark, Kylo was questioning himself and looking into light. And vice versa. They will never be on the same side, as they are each others opposites.

Star Wars ended for me when Princess Leia died last December. (Carrie Fisher d. December 27, 2016)

In an amazing morbid irony. Her movie star mother - Debbie Reynolds - died the next day.

The last real spoiler of this franchise was, Luke, Padmé Amidala was your baby momma.

Seems like the entire movie is a prequel to future movies, which pretty much writes itself out of everything they set up. Whether it's the next movie or the next 3 to reveal the story.

It seemed like everytime someone spoke, they were talking of the comeing storyline.

why did I watch this,
I need to learn more of the 6 movies I've missed.

Now, after rethinking it, and so many obvious clues, I really want them to just get on with it and make the next movie so I can see what they do with the characters they pretty much set up are going to play the next roles in the next fight.

Just to expand a few points on this:

1) There was obviously gravity on the ship, the remote fell, so the bombs would have fell into space off of the ship, from there wouldn't they have continued to move in the direction they were heading since there is not friction in space?

2) X-Wings in original trilogy make bank turns like an F16 fighter jet which is also impossible

3) in Empire Strikes back when the Falcon was in the Space Worm cave, Tie Fighters drop bombs into the cave.

I don't think Rey's history has been resolved yet. Leia had "parents" also that she remembers, but found out later that they were not her real parents. She was adopted to hide her true lineage to hid her from Palpatine. I think in 9 we will find out that Rey and Ben are Brother and Sister just like we found out in 6 that Luke and Leia were. They will continue to copy the Original. There was something with the old man on Jaaku in the beginning of 7, he said something about making up for sins and Leia will always be her princess. He may have been the one to take Rey to hide her from Snoke.



I'm not sure she is dead. She fell, but could have survived.

Padmé was his mother, not baby momma. That's the stuff in Game of Thrones not Star Wars.

Agreed. For one, just like the original, they playing on some sexual tension between the two of them.

I am not putting too much into what Kylo said about Rey's parents. It would not benefit him to tell her the truth, seeing is he killed her father in the last movie

Yep, meant to type 'my' as it was from Vader's point of view.

Here's the next Star Wars installment.

It's a prequel, sequel, sidequel, with a twist and a 1 1/2 ganer.

installmet

I liked it. Not great, but I liked it. I loved TFA, and saw it in the theater multiple times. This one, I'm good until it comes out on video.

haha thanks man...I laughed almost the whole way through.

I saw it last night. Man, I can't believe some of the reactions I'm seeing on this thread. This was actually my favorite movie out of all of them, and I'm a big Star Wars nerd.

It kept my attention the whole time. There were a ton of twists and things I did not expect to happen. I'm curious to see where, if anywhere, they go with that last scene where that little kid is obviously some type of Jedi material.

It wasn't like the first 6 episodes because George Lucas is gone, but I like the makeover.

Lastly, I liked getting to see the Infinity Wars trailer...

IW looks amazing.

I had posted before regarding Finn, what are your thoughts on that character?

While noting that I still loved the movie, I was a little disappointed he didn't have as prominent of a role in this one, even though he had more screen time probably (if that makes sense).

I thought, for sure, he was going to die in that last battle. Not sure what the future holds for him and that girl who saved him. Glad he offed that storm trooper commander. Now that he exacted revenge on his biggest rival, I'm not sure where his character goes from here.

As an aside, I was shocked that Poe and Rey never met before.

I just think that was the biggest downfall for this movie - Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed it. I just think his entire character THIS MOVIE was lost. He had no purpose. Which is sad, I loved his character in TFA, and I think they could have used him so much better in this film.

with my theory tho, Kylo and Rey are brother/sister. and the storylines are intertwined with the originals.

Vader/Luke - family
Kylo/Rey - Family

Luke/Leia - Twins
Ben/Rey - possible twins (brother sister at least)

Rey/Luke - similar relationship to Yoda/Luke - Yoda did not want to train luke, luke did not want to train Rey. Luke had darkness and hate, REy does as well.

Finn/Han - Both are the "other" guy. Han to Leia, Finn to Rey.

IDK maybe I am grasping here.

I waited all week to read this thread, struggling against the temptation to pop in here until I'd seen the movie, waiting until my daughter was done with her mid terms.

With eager anticipation she and I went last night to A MOVIE I'VE SEEN OVER AND OVER SINCE '80 AND '83!

I liked the movie, but I really felt like I was watching a rewritten, recast version of both Empire and Return of the Jedi.

About Mary Leia Poppins, we don't know what she's been doing with herself since ROTJ after the family fell apart. Visually, kinda cheesy though. Given Carrie Fisher is no longer with us, we won't be seeing what could've been with Princess Leia.

I'm with you guys, would've liked at least a little back story on Snoke.

Also agree that Rey's history will most likely be wrapped up in the next Episode.

Luke-my first movie hero going back 40 years now (I was 10 in '77). Didn't quite like the way he was treated but I understand.

I thought the coolest part of the movie was when he came out of all that smoke and did that 'brush the dust' move.

Funniest part was when Gen. Hux asked Ren, 'Do you think you got him'?

Ok, obviously in the minority here, but I didn’t like this movie. Really did not like it. I rate in the neighborhood of Episode I, which I thought sucked.

Didn’t care for all the cute little things, and scenes, and quips. Way too much. That’s not Star Wars. Thanks, Disney.

Didn’t like the Leia pulling herself into the ship. What exactly was that?

The whole Vegas thing was overdrawn, with too much humor and stereotypes thrown in. The drunk dwarf putting a few chips into BB8 like it was a slot machine? And then BB8 shooting out and endless stream of them later. Bleh.

The resistance ships were critically low on fuel. So Finn and Rose get a ship, sneak launch from the Resistance e ship, get to the Vegas planet, illegally park their shuttle (also stupid), look for the code breaker, do some sightseeing, get arrested, find another code breaker, escape from prison, steal some horses, ride all over, get on a ship, get back to where the Resistance ships are, and board an enemy ship. All without the resistance running out of fuel. And in the meantime Rey does about 3 days worth of karate kid training montage.

Hated those bird things. Just an Ewok ... sell some stuffed animals.

Crap movie. Seriously makes me doubt I will watch Episode IX. I was lukewarm on VII, but this one blows. Disappointing. Rogue One was excellent, though. Interesting characters.

I have watched Rogue One 5 times. I can't get into it. I don't like it.

So, next week, I guess I will go watch this movie and think it's the bomb.

Because yenno. Is how things work.

j/c

Yeah I'm with you Eve. Rogue One was prequels bad. Maybe worse. Literally awful. I walked out of the theater wondering why I wasted my money - and I'm a huge Star Wars nerd. I fear all the "side stories" might end up sucking. Fingers crossed for Solo.

TLJ though? I thought it was the best Star Wars movie since the original trilogies. Highly suggest going to see it.

It's funny that these movies have such a wide ranging variety of opinions. A friend of mine absolutely loved Rogue One yet completely hated this latest movies.

I think it's all about expectations. If people go into certain movies expecting certain things to happen, then they're going to be let down.