DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kizer Rnd 6 ...

I disagree that a run first approach wouldn't give the QB work, in fact, it would have given him plenty of work, likely in more favorable situations. JMHO

lol,

I will say this, in Hue's defense, I like that a lot was dumped on Kizer's plate. I thought that, for the most part, he handled it well, and if we were a normal team he would be going into next season, with better weapons, better prepared to start winning. However, because of all the losses creating the intense pressure to begin winning next season, he'll have to take a backseat to whoever we bring in (Vet or #1 pick). I'm saying he could have been taught just as much, but been asked to use what he'd been taught more judiciously.

JMHO

I think some people can look panicked and some peoples actions show you they're panicked. Looking at the red zone results I'd say Kizer has been panicked all along. You just don't see it in a physical form.

Was about to post this myself. I think situations like this could've been avoided by bringing in an OC. If Hue does stay, I'd really love it if Ken Dorsey was hired to be our OC. He's done a great job as a QB coach with Cam in Carolina.

This is a terribly harsh article, and I don't agree with everything in it, but the writer does make some valid points.

Cleveland Browns: Hue Jackson’s handling of DeShone Kizer
by Peter Smith

Cleveland Browns head coach Hue Jackson wants DeShone Kizer to believe that he’s doing what’s best for him, while burying him.

Hue Jackson, the so-called quarterback whisperer and head coach of the Cleveland Browns, has spent much of this season taking a megaphone to press conferences telling everyone who is listening that DeShone Kizer is bad and it’s anyone’s fault but his. It didn’t start out this way as Jackson couldn’t say enough about how much he liked Kizer, even going as far as staking his reputation on him.

Jackson took Kizer, a player both the front office and his quarterback coach, David Lee, said he wasn’t ready, and after jettisoning every other potential option, named him the starting quarterback.

At that time, Jackson was extremely high on the former Notre Dame signal caller.

Even after naming Kizer his starting quarterback, Jackson didn’t tailor his playbook around what the rookie could do. Instead, he insisted the rookie grow up fast and adjust to his offense, pointing to his extremely high expectations of the quarterback position. This all sounds good except Kizer couldn’t do what he was being asked, which was clear both in the preseason and several weeks into the regular season. The offense is the offense, regardless of whether it’s Robert Griffin III, Josh McCown, Cody Kessler or Kevin Hogan.

Kizer was benched on multiple occasions for turning the ball over, which is defensible on its face. The problem when it came to Jackson is he never took responsibility in his role for why those interceptions occurred. Due to the poor handling of the quarterback depth chart, like releasing Josh McCown and then Brock Osweiler, he also replaced Kizer with quarterbacks that were just as bad or worse than Kizer, forcing him into a pretty embarrassing yo-yoing of the quarterback position that made Jackson look just as bad as the quarterback.

It took until week seven for Jackson to make some adjustments to aid Kizer and put him in better position to succeed. His performance improved but not enough to get in the win column. Kizer had some promising moments against teams like the Detroit Lions and Minnesota Vikings, but never a complete game and none that ended in victory.

When Jackson deemed it clear that Kizer couldn’t do what he wanted, Jackson panicked and tried to trade the Cincinnati Bengals a pair of draft picks for his former quarterback, A.J. McCarron. When the trade didn’t go through, Jackson lied through his teeth, again, saying Kizer was the man for the job and he was a franchise quarterback.

More weeks passed and losses added up and then Jackson came out and said that he thought Kizer could be a great quarterback, but that the team would certainly be in the market for a quarterback next year highly in the draft.

Once he had succeeded in getting rid of Sashi Brown, the man who heroically botched the McCarron panic trade, the organization came out with new general manager John Dorsey and owner Jimmy Haslam for their press conference. In this press conference, Haslam said the number one job for Dorsey was to find a franchise quarterback. The owner of the team publicly laid the blame of the organization’s struggles on Sashi Brown and a 21-year old rookie quarterback because Jackson convinced him they were the problems. (In fairness, Haslam blamed himself as he always does in these situations, but then proclaimed he’d change nothing about how he operates the team.)

The self proclaimed quarterback guru played an unprepared rookie quarterback too early because his ego made him believe he could fix him, despite warnings from everyone around him. When the rookie was unable to perform what was expected, he benched him. When benching him didn’t work, he took to criticizing him in public.

After that didn’t yield the desired results, he attempted to replace him. Then, he tried to make nice for a minute before making it known to everyone that he intended to replace him the following year. At the end, the head coach blames all of the team’s struggles on the quarterback he handled so poorly.

Following the team’s 14th loss in a row, Jackson, in his post game press conference responded to a question about Kizer by saying, “I think that’s a fair question if he’ll ever get it. I think he will, but he has to keep working.”

And later in the same presser:

“I want to see where he is because this is about his future as a quarterback in the National Football League. It’s not just about letting him play and seeing this or seeing that. I want to do what’s best for him, also, as we move forward. I think that is important.”

So in one breath, Jackson is continuing a season long trend of burying Kizer’s young career. And as Kizers getting hit in the face by shovelfuls dirt, he has to listen to Jackson try to explain to him how this is the best thing for him.

Kizer hasn’t been good. At times, he’s been downright awful, but he wasn’t prepared to play this year in the first place, which isn’t his fault. The best thing for Kizer was not playing him as a rookie. The best for him would have been letting him ease his way into the NFL and catch up to the speed of the game. He was a project and everyone around him told him as much, which Kizer has admitted on multiple occasions.

Jackson has never done what’s best for Kizer. The suggestion he has is insulting to anyone’s intelligence that pays even the slightest attention to this team. It’s always been about what’s best for Jackson’s ego. He so desperately wants credit and to be able to say he developed the quarterback that turned the Browns around, even putting his own credibility on the line for it. Then when that fails, despite his own words on the subject, puts the blame on the quarterback and excuses himself.

Hue Jackson should be held responsible for his extremely poor handling of DeShone Kizer this year, per his own words. Now imagine this all happens next year with the first pick of the draft and what is to be the Cleveland Browns franchise quarterback. Whether it’s Josh Rosen, Baker Mayfield or someone else, imagine that Jackson has been this destructive with what should be the franchise’s future and highest quarterback selected since Tim Couch in 1999.

For all of Kizer’s faults, he was mismanaged from the word go by Hue Jackson and it’s unthinkable that this could be allowed to happen again, potentially doing serious harm to another rookie quarterback. This time, with substantially higher stakes.

Link

I don’t think its harsh at all ... i think its dead nuts on!

On Duke's quote. I think the benchings are a part of losing confidence, but more is Kizer's actual play on the field. He continues to make what I'd call dumb decisions. I think it'd be normal to feel a little less confident.

On the second quote. I'm a little unsure how Hue treats Kizer so bad.

I don't he means Hue's treating him bad as a person, but instead is referring to the fact that he expected Kizer, a young, developmental rookie, to effectively execute a pass heavy, complicated offense, with very little run support and very little talent at the receiver positions, then benching him for not doing a good enough job. Twice. Then adapting the offense so that he has some success, but not sticking with it during games that could have been winnable.

JMHO

Hue expects any quarterback to make basic throws.

We have running backs who have to make diving catches.....for passes at the line of scrimmage.

Yeah that's been the problem all along, the RBs diving for catches.

I agree with the part about Hue throwing Kizer under the bus is bad handling of a young, rookie QB. That said, if this year has caused Kizer to lose his confidence, then he probably wasn't the guy, and doesn't have the resiliency that I thought he did.

This is the NFL, and this is Cleveland. If you're going to be the starting QB, you've gotta be a rock... and deaf.

that was one of many examples of the overall problem, which is that Kizer struggles making even the most basic throws.

Just wanted to share Kizer's game splits/stats.

Deshone Kizer - Stats - Splits - ESPN





Personally, seems like he does a lot of throwing 2nd quarter and 4th quarter. His second half (3rd/4th quarter) stats aren't great either; lower completion %, and most INT's thrown during this time.

His stats when he hits the 30+ throw mark tank with 37.8% completion/23.8 QB rating. His first 10 throws are when he's at his 'best'.

More throws to right sideline, with more INT's on that side as well.

By the pass thrown stats, I'd swear I was looking at Cody Kessler. Significant drop off on completion % on passes thrown longer than 10 yards. Highest behind LOS and under 10.


I'd be interested to read you alls thoughts.

But he doesn't. He struggles when asked to throw deep, often. 30+ times or more per game. Most QBs would. He's a rookie, remember?

Yes he does. That can’t even be debated.

Sure it can. He is absolutely capable of making accurate throws.

Hue Jackson full answer on drafting QB in 2nd rd: "I understand when you take a guy in the 2nd round, everybody suspects that that's the guy. We wish it is. You hope it is. But it it isn't, that's okay, too. And hopefully that guy will continue to grow and get better"

https://twitter.com/KeithBritton86/status/943578073475309568

IMO, Kizer played poorly enough to warrant us using our #1 pick on a QB in a very QB-rich draft.

"You have a QB, or you don't"... right now, with Kizer's performance, nobody can definitively say we have a franchise QB. Right now, we're in the rare situation where we have everything we need to go and get the QB we want in a draft that is very good for QBs. Those two things together make it a no-brainer.

However, Kizer had enough working against him that he doesn't deserve to be cut. The poor guy needs to sit and learn, and I think he should be allowed to do that next year. After, if both the new guy and Kizer stud out, then we can trade Kizer.

A short timeline of some of #Browns head coach Hue Jackson’s comments on rookie QB DeShone Kizer this season





https://twitter.com/KeithBritton86/status/943591268445315072

It's almost like he is a huckster who is throwing a player under the bus to protect himself. . .

I see absolutely nothing in those comments that even remotely suggest that.

I find a lot of those type of comments laughable. You always try to bolster your players and support them. No matter what you think, you don't publicly slam your players. People around here make it sound like when he says the right thing, it's the wrong thing.

So how do you explain Hue Jackson and Gregg Williams throwing the players under the bus the last few weeks?

The only one I've actually seen throw the players under the bus is Dorsey. And I simply believe that he's a guy who just blurts things out without thinking sometimes.

I think the people saying Hue and Williams have done it are searching for something bad to say. Presenting things out of context and making a real reach to try to prove a point.

Kizer's time is over here. and I am glad for it. if it is possible he was worse then Weeden.

denial is an ugly creature.

Hue Jackson literally said he didn't hire an offensive coordinator because he knew the team would be bad.

(There are many more examples. I can find them if you'd like, but that was the first that came to mind.)

weeden won us what? 4-5 games his rookie season?

as far as rookie QB's starting, i think him and McCoy have the best record.

either way it was damn flippin' painful watching this season and him playing in it.

That's throwing players under the bus?

That's just brutally honest.

Rookie QB. 2 2nd year guys behind him.

3/5ths of an OL are new.

Rookie TE behind a 2nd year TE.

ONE WR worth anything.

No real RB.

Yeah, I'd say we weren't going to be very good too.

THANK You.

I keep hearing this players under the bus thing, and I just don't see it either.

I kinda thought I was losing my mind.

Thanks for verifying that I'm NOT.

You guys read WAY to much into the simplest of comments.

U and Pit are blind if you don’t think Hue’s thrown Kizer under the bus with his statements .. at minimum your CONFUSING throwing someone under the bus with being honest or dishonest ..

Weather something is honest or not has exactly nothing to do with weather your throwing someone under the bus or not ....

Hue did the same thing to Cody last year ... the EXACT SAME THING ...

My only question is ... HOW MANY BUSSES DOES HUE HAVE ... does he have a different bus for all his victims or does he just keep running people over with the same one ...

I have ZERO RESPECT for that man ... ZERO RESPECT ....

If we keep him ... thats fine .... theres advantages to keeping him and at the end of the day the jury’s still out on weather he can be a good HC ... we get to keep the same systems ... the team plays hard for him ... as far as i can tell those are about the only arguments for keeping him ... he has a list of WARTS A MILE LONG ...

If we fire him .. that fine too ... i cant stand listening to this guy anymore ... his ability to throw people under the bus is rivaled only by his inability to call running plays ...

I’m good either way with this JACKASS!!!!

Seems to me that Hue is looking for every means possible to mitigate his record. I agree, I don't have a lot of respect for the guy.

I almost wonder at this point if hes trying to get fired ... I can’t see how what he said this week or last week with his OC line BS went over well with Dorsey ... he’s not handling himself like a LEADER .... he’s simply not ...

After Dorsey ran his big mouth and now this with Hue ... it’ll be interesting to see if the team plays as hard as they have up til this point the next two weeks ...

There’s a reason Duke came out and said what he did about Kizer’s confidence ...

That's about where I'm at right now. I'm not sure what to make of this recent negativity (dysfunction?), but I'm not leaning in a positive direction...

At 0-16 we can't keep Hue, can we? Can we?

I guess playing hard at 0-14 (twice!) is good enough for some people.

When you have blind faith in something there isn't a single rational reason that can change your mind.

On of this days, the Hue supporters are going to wake up with a different opinion... its going to be a shock believe me....

Why do you keep on saying Hue knows QB's.... You don't call 66% of pass plays against the top pass D in the league with Kizer...

So I beg to disagree, but evidence ponits to the fact that Hue knows very little about Qb's

He coached Carson Palmer and Andy Dalton....That's his wonder CV with QB's....

Also, you better buy a tin foil hat if you think Sashi deliberately opposed Hue on getting a good QB....

If a HC cannot chose 1 of the 3 Qb's on the roster or even for practice squad....

There has to be limits on what you can pinn on Sashi...