DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kizer Rnd 6 ...

Well, ya know. lol. The first time I saw him play....it was a preseason game and saw him on the sidelines. He had this look in his eye like he had this GIGANTIC Chip On His Shoulder. And I thought...Good Kid...you're gonna need that chip if you want to play in Cleveland.

So, I've been rooting for him. For his Chip to win and not for the Browns/Media/Fans to ruin him. (because that's what always happens)

Sexy weird hair aside.

Exhibit A: Chip and Hair



And then Eve stops posting....

... . Catch your breath, girl.

Week 15: Same ol' Kizer.

Maybe after another four years of college, he can play in Canada. I can't defend him any more. He played like a complete simpleton today.

Rough game from the passing offense.

Its a copy cat league and the Bears played a lot of Cover 2 man under just like the Ravens did.

Its a tough ask for a rookie QB that is clearing struggling to win the game by reading progression in a 5-7 step drop passing game against press man coverage.

A vertical passing offense with receivers that aren't getting open or making plays downfield isn't going to look pretty.

The 2 plays that immediately stand out to me: bad decision on the interception to Gordon and missed throw to DeValve on the corner route near the sideline.

Gordon had 2 drops (sideline and the comeback route) and 2(?) passes broken up by Fuller who was living in Gordon's pocket.

Would have like to see 1st down play-action, RB screen game and some bootlegs though.

Should have started the game throwing to Duke and Njoku.

QB DeShone Kizer, 42.2 overall grade

Kizer had a tough game, completing just 1-of-10 pass attempts 10 yards or further downfield while his receivers failed to win contested situations. Cleveland’s rookie signal-caller also struggled under pressure, as he completed only 5-of-15 attempts under pressure and had a passer rating of 19.4 when Chicago’s pass rush got to him.

I get that he's 21 and being asked a lot - and the book isn't closed on him. But ... let's be real, it's not his struggles against cover 2 defenses that is the issue. It's the terrible decision making - and the missing of open receivers with terribly inaccuracy that is the thing that has a siren going off in many people's minds.

Kizer has made no improvement on the following from game 1 to game 15:

--Post snap processing - does not go through his reads.
--Post snap processing - does not understand what his first read is doing i.e., go routes, sitting down in zones, back shoulder, etc.
--Accuracy. It's poor.
--Pocket presence. He never moves up in the pocket, always outside. As soon as he moves outside he's done. I don't recall one pass he's completed on the move.
--Terrible deep ball.

Agree 100%.

We sure were lucky to land a QB whisperer to coach the kid up. After working with him in the off season and through 15 real games, Hue’s famed talent is apparent.

My post was about the Bears game. There isn't a need to go round and round about your overall opinion of Kizer. I know your opinions. We disagree.

And you don't need to preface your post with a statement you don't believe and the contradicts everything you wrote following it.

And I do believe the book is closed on him.

But ... let's be real, it's not his struggles against cover 2 defenses that is the issue.
^^I agree we should be real. And we agree 100% here though. You are right it's not Kizer's struggles against Cover 2(man) defenses that's the issue its the team's

You obviously do not know as much as you think.

I've been rooting for Kizer and saying that you can't judge him fairly based on a team with crappy receivers and ... and ... and ... all season long. I've only really started to be down on him after his simply incredibly bad decisions in the last 3 games. It was like he had turned a bit of a corner and played smart for 2 games - and then wham, it was like he just went right back to wanting to throw the ball regardless. He's shown flashes - but the one thing he has consistently done is be inaccurate, even when given the time and a clean pocket ... and turn the ball over. He's also shown a total inability to throw a fade route.

Is he a bust? No - not even close because there is every chance he matures by leaps and bounds.

Do I want him to be my starting QB of the Browns next year based on what I have seen. Not a flaming chance in hell.

You obviously do not know as much as you think.

Looks like you want to go round and round in circles. Again, my post was about the Bears game.

It's evident Kizer is in over his head.
But if you have a rookie qb and the struggles he had in college
Have not gone away at the Pro Level it's more than Kizer than whats wrong with this offense
How can you expect Kizer to evolve or show improvement when the play calling
For one hasnt gotten better
This offense still looks like a offense from a 3rd preseason game
How can Kizer improve when your best WR was out of football for 3 years
Your best TE is a raw rookie who's barely played the position ??
A rookie qbs best friend is a dominant run game
Big Ben and Russell Wilson are proofs of it
The game hasn't slowed down for Kizer
He's not getting any help from Hue or the non playmakers around him
Kizer isn't good enough to overcome incompatence around him
Switch Big Ben and Kizer
Which qb has the most wins ?

And my post was based on you telling me what I believe in. So no, you do not know what you're talking about with that, and that's a fact. Merry Christmas.

I'm sorry but it's not that hard to throw a ball under 15 yards with accuracy for even high schoolers. He just plain sucks.

https://twitter.com/jake_burns18/status/945649044247994368

Click the link for the video.

That last throw...

he was just trying to bounce the ball off the turf and into corey's hands. perfectly executed play if you look at it that way.

The "Ricochet Pass", next big offensive trend.

With Weeden we had the flipper. With Kiser, we have the skipper.

Is accuracy and touch are bad, and his age doesnt matter.

Eotab is our most optimistic poster here, if not overly-optimistic (not that that's a bad thing ). If he doesn't care much for Kizer? That's really tellin' ya'll somethin'.

...who can't win just one for the Gipper.

would have been a int if he didnt throw it into the ground i think.

I disagree. I think his age is why everything is bad. On those Corey Coleman clips, his footwork is trash on all of them or he's throwing on the run. He's not yet developed to be a guy who can maintain his fundamentals within the flow of play.

The sad fact for Kizer; the game is just too fast for him right now.

Edromeo posted over in another thread that Kizer's numbers are similar to Matt Stafford, himself a 21 year old starter who threw 20 interceptions in just 10 games.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzQXWnMQSCA

Anyone seeing some familiarity in that sporadic accuracy where he badly misses his receiver? Stafford was more refined than Kizer was, but they similarly are trying to force passes in situations where they're just not quite there yet. Both had too many turnovers, the exact same completion percentage and surprisingly similar yardage.

In many regards, I feel bad for Kizer.

Hue has done nothing to help him. Look at Trubisky - he gained the vasty majority of his yardage on the weekend from two screen passes and an intended rollout that got wide open. That made up, what, 110 of his 190 yards? Meanwhile, we're here like, "Kizer sucks, his 4th read got open and all he had to do was navigate intersecting interior pressure to find the pocket and hit his man."

The situation also sucks. Coleman and Gordon are awesome, but Kizer had neither for training camp and neither for near the entire season. We got our talent back, but it's painfully clear they aren't on the same page.

And Jackson still won't run the damn ball. Is anyone really shocked by what happened in Chicago? Browns abandoned the run first, Kizer makes a big mistake on a forced pass prior to half time, in the second half he struggles his way to more mistakes in a transparent situation.

Kizer isn't ready, and this situation isn't ready for him either. I think his age plays a bigger part in this than most will admit. He's just not ready to start.

I still won't write the kid off in the future for that reason, but he's regressing on his problems.

Maybe Hue should have recognized that and kept either McCown or Osweiler. But...

I think Kizer is done as potential "franchise" QB for the Browns.

To develop a franchise QB the organization must first be stable.
A bad franchise will never produce a franchise QB. I don't care who the QB is....if they're drafted to a dysfunctional organization success is nearly impossible. There are no QB saviors for a bad franchise.

The deck was stacked against Kizer from the start:
-inexperienced AND young in age QB
-a team utterly devoid of winning talent
-team devoid of talent at the WRs position
-team without an OC
-playcalling not tailored to slowly develop a rookie QB
-defense that doesn't create turnovers
-team with an HC and GM at odds/cross purposes
-owner...well.....

The expectations for a Kizer given the situation don't add up for me....of course he struggled.

Look at the Bears game, where were the open receivers?
Check out the other thread chronologically posted Kizer's first attempts in the game.

What are we asking our young struggling QB to do there? It hard enough asking any QB to move the ball in the passing game vs Cover 2 man under defense. Not only that but lets ask him to do it in the snow without use of 'man-beaters'.

I think Kizer is done because of the situation and because of Hue's approach to Kizer's 'development'. I still think Kizer has a chance but so much would need to go right next year for him to have a Goffesque resurgence.

Personally, I don't think it's going to take the perfect storm for Kizer to earn the opportunity to show progress next year because all it takes is common sense.

One would naturally assume that someone in the building is going to be open minded when it comes to objectively evaluating how Kizer looks at a 22 year old, 2nd year quarterback. I would hope this is something extended to all players on the roster.

Unless the Browns sign someone like Kirk Cousins, Kizer will open camp as the starter and will have the opportunity to show any progress.

Kizer will be our starting quarterback because Hue Jackson places all rookies down the bottom of the depth chart to begin camp. Myles Garrett was the #1 pick and he started 3rd string. Rookies have to earn their place.

Right but you're confusing my point a bit. I agree it won't take a perfect storm for Kizer to have an opportunity. I was referring to the situation it would take for Kizer to have a Goff like resurgence. The Rams got a whole new staff...HC, OC, etc. and brought in a whole new group of receivers.

I get where you're coming from, but I think Jackson is going to get some new toys to play with and will likely sign an OC to alleviate some of the issues.

That new offense will likely not stray too far from what Jackson already runs, which is an advantage to Kizer because the learning curve won't be so steep.

I also think another year with Njoku, Gordon, Coleman and Johnson will do Kizer the world of good. In my opinion, we've seen plenty of these guys just not being on the same page. Not having the fluidity seen from more experienced teams with high end chemistry.

All that goes in Kizer's favour. He'll be a year older, a year stronger, and will have plenty of time to work on his game while ingesting film from his, so far, his 446 passing attempts.

It also helps that none of the rookies are at an elite level of pro-readiness. Not saying none of the rookies can start year one, but there is the likelihood that Kizer has a relative advantage there. As for a veteran - if you're spending the #1 pick on a QB, you're not signing anyone you're married to.

I agree the odds are against him, but I like his chances. He's a smart kid who works hard. Won't shock me if he comes back in 2018 looking like a whole new quarterback.

Yeah, it's obvious who has control over the 53 man roster. Oh wait, that was sashi!

Agree with your post. It's been tough to watch DK this season especially that I like the kid and was really pulling for him. Still am. He was put in an almost impossible situation and it showed. I still think he can be our franchise QB but he'll need better WR's better running game and an OC that can work with him a lot would help. He has all the tools and is willing to work hard with a good attitude. We should still probably draft a QB but I wouldn't give up on DK. JMO