DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kizer Rnd 6 ...

Goff's resurgence was a confluence of several factors. Sean McVay HC/Playcaller. Matt LeFleur OC. Greg Olsen QB Coach. Aaron Kromer OL. That's 4 coaches with experience as a coordinator 3 of which had experience as a playcaller. Net-net it was a wholesale revamping of the offensive staff/scheme/identity.

Then they added an entirely new receiving corps. Gone was Kenny Britt (at least the Browns got that part right) but they hit on a draft pick, a trade and a free agent.

I'm not talking about the kid. I don't think Goff changed. I think everything around him did. How much around Kizer is going to change improve?

That's all i'm saying.

If the situation was bad this year, how much different will it be next year?

Hopefully with an OC, draft picks and FA a whole lot better!!!

Damn good question. If Hue is the coach and elects to bring our #1 pick QB along the same way he [cough] developed [cough] Kizer, we'll be looking at another turd sandwich of a season with another high draft pick in 2019.

Continuity.

I think no, he shouldn't pick the next one alone.

Trust me.

Kizer isn't going to instantly become accurate if Paul Warfield and Gary Collins suited up next year.

I’ll help ...

- worst recieving corps in the league .... UNTALENTED, young, UNTALENTED, bad hands, UNTALENTED, unmotivated, UNTALENTED, two best recievers were injured or suspended, UNTALENTED ...

- given way to much responsibility for any rookie much loess one that wasn’t EVEN CLOSE TO BEING READY for a rookie ....

- the HC/OC’s REFUSAL to run the ball ... he literally REFUSED to run it ...

U need more or is that enough? ...

I wonder why Hue said he wanted more say in the draft? Could it be that Sashi straddled him with a QB who can't be developed? You can't turn a a pig into a cow. The rump roast will still taste like ham.

Or it could be that he's deflecting because he was actually the one who didn't want Carson Wentz?

Agreed. Kizer, in comparison to most rookie QB starts, was not treated with the same care and development as you'd find with most teams. Kizer was thrown to the wolves without support. The lack of a run game really bothers me. Hue did not want to run the ball. Nor did he want to do screens and other plays to relieve the pressure on the rookie QB. It is obvious. I've watch a lot of rookie QBs and their development process, especially when they are starters. Kizer was not handled well, especially with is developmental issues coming out of college.

Well it was Depodesta who said he didn't believe Wentz was a top 20 QB.

Funny how people try to blame the HC for bad drafting by the FO.

Come on. Mike Silver, who literally calls Hue Jackson his brother from another mother, said that Hue Jackson didn't want Wentz with the second pick.

Sashi Brown, and the rest of the front office, whiffed a ton on QBs. That's why he is no longer employed. But let's not pretend that Hue Jackson didn't also make mistakes.

To go even further... the FO was depending on Jackson to help make that pick. They based either all or part of their decision making on his opinion.

This is 95% Hues fault. He is the QB Guru, QB Whisperer brought here to fix the Offense. If we don't have a QB after 2 years, it's his fault. He loved Kizer in the pre-season touting him as future star in the NFL. Give me a break!!!!

I actually don't buy into this. Jackson just said not long ago that he wanted more input in the draft. If the FO was relying on Jackson, it would seem to me that he wouldn't have said that.

And yet another point... Since both Jackson and Sashi reported to Haslam, I would think Haslam would know who it was making the call on the QB's being drafted and who was actually responsible for passing on QB's like Wentz and Watson. Unless of course people actually believe that it was Hue who made these calls and Sashi was the one who ended up being fired.

That just makes zero sense to me.

Yeah ... I guess having a couple of sentences from you other than "fire Hue" is progress. But this looks like fabrication to me. I don't remember ANYWHERE that Hue was loving on Kizer pre-draft. Feel free to post a link, I'll gladly say I was wrong.

DePodesta said that "they" didn't think Wentz was a top 20 QB, not that "he" didn't. From that statement, it sure seems like a consensus rather than just him, and it has been stated all along that Hue would have a big say in selecting players, especially QBs.

I said he loved him in the pre-season not pre draft. Was touting him as a future star when we were 4-0... LOL

Well my apologies for misreading the post.

That said - I am not sure why you want to criticize a Head Coach for a player he didn't draft but then verbally pumped him up once he was on the team ... it's like the Kessler comments people want to bash him for. It strikes me that Hue is the type of coach that once you're on the team like Kessler and like Kizer - Coach is going to say great things about you in the press. That's who he is and how he coaches.

I've said elsewhere - there's plenty not to like about Hue but let's stick to the real facts and issues. Suggesting Kizer was all on Hue because he talked him up AFTER the draft is daft. If Hue was pumping him BEFORE the draft ... and then we took him and then he was a flop, sure. I'd be all over it. But that's not what happened.

It's simple. Hue should not be touting the kid as having a great future in the NFL when I know he will be out of the league in 2-3 years. Let's just get real!

Ahhh. So Tony has spoken and knows the future. I wish they'd called before the draft.

Hahahaha.

I had a mental image of my head of Hue Jackson walking out to his presser prior to the opener against the Steelers and saying, "Before we get started, I want to apologies for some comments I've made this preseason that were positive regarding Deshone Kizer's talents. TONY, from Dawgtalkers, has informed me that Deshone will be out of the league in 2-3 years, and thus I should not be saying positive things about the young man. Learning from my mistakes, I hope Deshone dies and wish him no wellness prior to his death. Questions?"

You guys are good! This is some funny stuff...LOL

That seems like a bit much...

It was the most un-nice thing I could think of without bringing anything illegal in to it.

My only regret is I couldn't find any way to work "I'll have to watch the tape" in to it.

Kiser has shown toughness, a willingness to work, strong arm, athletic ability and all this while facing more adversity than any Browns QB i can remember. He has refused to complain about dropped passes and receivers running the wrong routes. Kiser is ONLY 21 and seems very smart. I don't see how some on here are convinced he will never make it. Kiser was forced to play this year when he should have been watching a veteran QB and learning from the bench. Hue's refusal to commit to a running game to protect Kiser is inexcusable. Our strength on offense is our o-line and our weakness was a rookie QB and our wide receivers yet we continued to throw the ball 40+ times a game. His college coach even said he needed another year in college. Why call plays like he is Tom Brady. Kiser has a lot to work on but he has also shown a lot that doesn't show up in the stat box. Hopefully we sign a veteran QB and use our #1 pick on a QB for next year. That way Kiser can do what he should have done this year and watch and learn from the sidelines. Kiser is way too talented to give up on.

I think everything you said is 100% accurate with regard to Kizer and his challenges.

With that said - I personally think there is so much development needed that to consider Kizer as your bonafide 'future franchise QB' .... meaning to ignore taking one of: Rosen, Darnold, Allen, Jackson or Mayfield (assuming the scounting/GM says that one of them is most likely a future franchise QB) would be total folly.

I 100% agree Kizer has shown a lot of positives. But he's also failed to show a lot of things too - and I don't want to give up on him and I don't want to bank on him and pass on a blue chip prospect. What could be worse than a future 2 years from now when we have to start over again at QB because Kizer didn't take the next step? At this point there isn't a ton of difference between Kizer and a draft prospect. Yes Kizer has a season of NFL experience - but in terms of *potential* - is anyone truly going to stake their name to saying Kizer is more likely to be a better QB than Rosen/Darnold/Jackson? He's just like them as in he still has a ton to prove. jmo

Thanks for allowing me to believe what i want ... mighty nice of u ... ..

U asked a question ... I ANSWERED .... sorry if that offended U ... next time .. DON’T ASK if u don’t like the answer ...

Where the F did i say a word about Kizer’s ability ... NO WHERE ... your making crap up AGAIN ...

U asked what the problem with hue was ... I ANSWERED ... should i apologize for that??

Sorry .. your boy HUE has done some INDEFENSIBLE THINGS .. hence your BS ass deflection response ...

But the bolded and underlined portion of your post is an impossibility. Considering one of the prospects a likely future franchise is mere guesswork. All any GM/scout can do is rank the prospects based on their skillset. Projection is nothing more then prognostication. You can't draft a 'franchise' QB a prospect has to become a franchise QB and that only happens IF a franchise is able to put the right pieces around them for them to succeed or fail. Case in point is Goff year 1 vs year 2. Sure Goff had a year of experience but the entire situation around him changed.

But, I agree IF one of those prospect is more likely to become a franchise QB then Kizer then by all means draft them. But how do you know? As a prospects their skillsets aren't head and shoulders better then Kizer. Especially considering that Kizer has a year playing under the toughest circumstances possible....unless Kizer is broken.

All that you said is correct. I feel bad for Kizer because he was put in an impossible position, which you laid out clearly.

However

He has shown that he doesn't have the ability to consistently deliver the ball to his receivers accurately. It doesn't matter if it's Gordon or Hollywood Higgins he's throwing to... if the receiver has to dig the ball off the ground, reach way back, jump up to catch a ball that should be put on his hands or in a spot where he can turn and run for YAC... not to mention just missing the receiver entirely and/or making terrible decisions resulting in turnovers... that's going to hold the offense back and is 100% on the QB. Moreover, I'm not sure that's something that can be totally fixed. Accuracy, most of the time, is just something a QB has, or he doesn't.

We got the draft ammo along with a good QB draft class, and $$$ ammo along with a pretty decent QB FA group which results in our best chance in forever to land a franchise QB. We are going out and getting at least 1 QB that will clearly be ahead of Kizer in the pecking order come next season.
To be clear, I think that's partly because Kizer was so bad this season, but moreso because of the huge opportunity we have this coming offseason.

I couldn't get past this sentence because I couldn't disagree with it more. It absolutely matters who he's throwing to.

If a receiver runs the wrong route, doesn't run the route properly, doesn't get separation, doesn't win against press coverage they're certainly going to be harder to throw accurately to then receivers that can. That should be obvious.

Especially in an scheme that relies heavily on receivers winning isolation routes.

Agree with you. With all said and done, this has been the most miserable excuse for a QB development that I ever seen.

Kizer didn't help also. Hate the bonehead decisions....

Honestly, I think its time to put the Kizer experiment to rest. Just keep him has the 3rd stringer, see if he can get more comfortable with the game, he is so rattled that its impossible to assess anything.

True, but I think you're missing my point. Kizer is inaccurate. He can't consistently deliver the ball to the receiver where he can make the catch and turn it into YAC. Do we have issues with the talent at our WR group? Yes, but that only goes so far towards explaining away Kizer's lack of accuracy.

Just to be clear I've long since said that Kizer is done with the Browns.

He just never had a chance here. Bad situation, improper development from a HC who is at best ambivalent about him.

And more importantly judging by this forum the fans are feed up with losing and Kizer is the bagman for all the losing and this is an organization with an owner that is even more attuned to appeasing the fanbase then usual.

Those are the reason why I think Kizer is done w/ the Browns. Not because I think he's a bad prospect or lacks potential to be a 'franchise' QB.

In short i think Kizer is done because the Browns are the Browns and its what they do...its a QB thresher.

Kizer is so rattled, that I believe you cannot access anything about him. The only thing we can say is that right now the job is too big for him.

No point on putting him at center if the game can't slow down for him. Kizer has always shown accuracy when he is calm and collected and can go through the motion....We knew that and he showed it on some occasions.

Yeah, I acknowledge that. I know that Hue hasn't done him any favors whatsoever.

I just keep going back to what most were saying at the beginning of the season. The dude just wasn't ready. He had accuracy issues at ND (Diam said). He has shown a bunch of resiliency, though.

I'm no QB expert, so I honestly don't know if he will be able to fix it. My understanding is that, generally, accuracy is something that either you got, or you don't. Regardless, Kizer has shown enough positive traits that he should have the opportunity to sit behind the starter and work on those issues, but hasn't shown nearly enough for us to pass on the talent that's coming out.

I'm not missing your point at all. I just don't agree. Its okay to disagree.

Let's say a man is thrown into lake Erie wearing a 250 lbs weight vest and is drowning. I'm not going to say he's drowning because he can't do the breaststroke.

Interesting that you mention drowning someone in Lake Erie when Hue is about to take a dip...

We might be closer to agreeing that we realize. I agree with your analogy, though I would argue the weight is much lighter (but the coach is having him butterfly, not breast stroke).