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Sixteen years later, Amy Trask still vividly remembers the moment she found out that the Jon Gruden Raiders-to-Buccaneers trade had been consummated.
Trask was the Oakland CEO at the time. And she was not pleased.
“My husband and I were coming in the house, it was 9, 9:30 at night,” Trask recalls now. “And the phone was ringing, my arms were full of things, and I remember picking up the phone and it’s Al (Davis). And I’m juggling things in my arms, and I’m so distracted and he says, ‘blah, blah, blah, trade.’ And I said to him, ‘Look, I’m gonna again ask you—please rethink this, I don’t think we should do this.’
“And his exact words were, ‘I don’t think you heard me. I just told you, I just did it.’”
That night, in early 2002, the Raiders sent Gruden to the Bucs for first-round and second-round picks in that April’s draft, a first-rounder in 2003 and a second-rounder in 2004. The Raiders wound up with corner Philip Buchanon, tackle Langston Walker, defensive end Taylor Brayton and center Jake Grove. Oakland made the Super Bowl that next season under Bill Callahan.
The Bucs, behind Gruden, beat the Raiders for the Lombardi. And because of that, history will tell you that Trask was right to tell Davis not to trade the coach, despite the tremendous haul coming back. So the question I had for Trask next was simple: Was there a point where she’d have signed off on dealing Gruden, something she’d been steadfastly against?
“Maybe,” she said. “I doubt it, but maybe.”
The coaching carousel is about to start spinning again, and we’re about to take you through all the rumors. But everything needs to be prefaced with the fact that, in this year’s market, supply is lagging behind demand. There have been 50 coaching changes in the past seven cycles, more than seven per year, and that’s dried out the pipeline. And with 8-10 openings expected this year, some teams may try to get creative.
So maybe the time has come to reprise the idea of coaches being traded. Texans coach Bill O’Brien is the most obvious candidate to be moved. But the idea of Browns coach Hue Jackson and Jets coach Todd Bowles going back to their old homes in Cincinnati and Arizona has been kicked around in league circles all fall, and those guys are under contract too. The wheels certainly are turning.
A trade is not the only way teams could think outside the box to find the right guy in January. Some might dip their toe in the college pool (Stanford’s David Shaw will get calls), others may look to position coaches (Philadelphia QB coach John DeFilippo) or special teams coaches (Kansas City’s Dave Toub), if they’re not satisfied with the class or can’t get one of its belles.
LIKELY/DONE
• Chicago Bears: The writing has been on the wall here for a while. The expectation is that John Fox will be gone. What’s less certain is whether or not general manager Ryan Pace gets to pick the next coach, and whether or not the coaches pursued by the Bears dictate Pace’s fate.
• Cincinnati Bengals: Marvin Lewis’ impending departure has been on the table from the moment he and the team decided not to do another one-year Band-Aid extension, which sent him into a contract year. Word is, the Bengals will lean towards coaches they know, which is why Jackson and Jay Gruden’s names have been mentioned, as have internal candidates Paul Guenther and Darrin Simmons.
• Detroit Lions: With the Lions eliminated, I moved this one from the “maybe” pile, as rumblings have held for a few weeks that Jim Caldwell would be in trouble if he missed the playoffs. I’d expect Patriots defensive coordinator Matt Patricia to be a consideration if Caldwell gets whacked, with the possibility that Jim Bob Cooter and the offensive staff stay.
• Indianapolis Colts: Chuck Pagano kept his team competitive, and the front office respects the job he and staff have done. That said, GM Chris Ballard is almost certain to fire Pagano and hire his own guy. The attractiveness of the job Ballard will offer is, of course, tied to Andrew Luck’s health. Two of his ex-Chief co-workers, Toub and offensive coordinator Matt Nagy, have been connected to this one, and there are whispers that Indy could make a run at Pats offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels.
• New York Giants: Much will depend on who the team hires as general manager, and many believe that Dave Gettleman will be involved in the remaking of the scouting operation, be it as the hire or in another senior role. While the attention has been on McDaniels, and a McDaniels/Nick Caserio package deal has been rumored to be a consideration, I’d expect both Patriot coordinators to be considered.
WE’LL SEE
• Arizona Cardinals: Many have assumed that Bruce Arians will retire after this year. Is he having second thoughts? The Cardinals went through this last year—Sean McVay was atop their candidate list then—and are ready either way now. As we mentioned, the Jets could get a call on Bowles, and O’Brien might draw interest here too.
• Denver Broncos: John Elway is not pleased with how the season’s gone, and the expectation is there will at least be changes to the offensive side of the staff. A bad loss at home to the Patrick Mahomes-led Chiefs could put Vance Joseph in peril. This one remains unpredictable.
• Oakland Raiders: Jack Del Rio is under contract through 2020, and so a big question here is whether or not Mark Davis would be willing to eat three years on a contract. Assuming he’ll give Del Rio another year, there are problems on the staff that we’ll detail a little later in the column that should lead to a significant shakeup. Another thing to note here would be Davis’ long-standing fascination with Gruden.
• Tampa Bay Buccaneers: There’s been some level of expectation that Dirk Koetter will be a casualty of the Bucs’ hugely disappointing 2017 season, and we’ve seen several on-field signs (most recently, with Jameis Winston’s display last Sunday) that he’s lost some level of control over the team. You know where this goes next: All eyes on Gruden. And if they can’t get Gruden, does Koetter get a stay of execution?
• Tennessee Titans: If the Titans beat the Jags on Sunday, they’re in the playoffs. If they lose, there could be a coaching change. And if there is one, I’d bet McDaniels is in the mix to reunite with his ex-Patriot colleague Jon Robinson.
• Washington Redskins: A change here would require eating three years of Jay Gruden’s contract, and I don’t believe Dan Snyder would be pumped to write those checks. I also believe many in the building there think Jay Gruden had a strong four years. But it’s Washington … so you can’t rule anything out.
IT’S COMPLICATED
• Cleveland Browns: Jimmy Haslam already said Hue Jackson will be back in 2018, and GM John Dorsey affirmed it upon his hiring. What if the Bengals call? Will 0-16 change anything? My belief is Jackson sticks, but I also know Dorsey’s done his research.
• Houston Texans: Simply, a reckoning is coming here. I’d be floored if O’Brien even considered signing an extension without changes to the way the football operation is aligned, and 2018 is a contract year for him. That would create a decision point for ownership—go forward for a year with a coach that would be the No. 1 guy on the market if free, or cut the cord now and move forward with GM Rick Smith.
• New York Jets: Acting owner Chris Johnson has proven to be very level-headed, and so I’d expect the little signs of encouragement that he’s gotten from the work of GM Mike Maccagnan and Bowles this fall would carry the current group through to 2018. But if Bowles has options, like Arizona, this could get interesting.
• Seattle Seahawks: Crazy? Maybe. But with the future of several big defensive stars in question, and a possible overhaul of the roster coming, could Pete Carroll, 66, retire to southern California? It’s not the wildest idea out there. (The above link has autoplay video, so click at your own risk.)
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We all should be talking about next season as if Hue is coming back.
Whether we agree or disagree with the decision doesn’t really matter at this point.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Sort of on topic, so I hope ya'll don't mind I put this here. Joe Thomas did a press conference in which he somewhat trashed Sashi and the front office for the past two years. Defended Hue and said the deck was left empty, that the plan was to maximize assets without regard for the pain of losing, and how hard it was for him to go through stages of anger and grief in which he watched veterans walk out the door. However, he was then asked about the future. Specifically, "How much better can this team be next year?" "Well that's what leads me to my great point, Pat. I'm glad you read my notes before this press conference. Is, this team right now, is set up for a long run of success, starting next year. That's why I think fans, coaches and players should be really excited, because what we've done is we've sacrificed two years of pain for a long, multiple term gain, starting next year and the following year, because if you look at our salary cap space, if you look at the number of young guys who've played and got experience right now on this team, and then you look at the number of high draft picks that we have next year and the following year, there is no reason we can't be really, really good starting next year and the following year." It was interesting to watch his tone change. At first it was rough. He was going in on Sashi and the agreed upon plan. I thought it was interesting the way he worked it back, essentially saying that as painful as it was, it was necessary for the success he believes the organization will have. At this stage, we know that means he'll certainly be playing on. There is no way he retires if the thinks the Browns are finally set up for sustained success. His comments also are indicative of why I believe Haslam when he says Jackson isn't on the hot seat - Thomas is correct in saying that Jackson was handed a roster that isn't ready to win and thus did a lot of not-winning. While I think Jackson could have done a lot of things better, the inexperience on the roster didn't make his job easier. Thomas also doesn't believe the losing creates a negative, long term environment for the Browns culture. "I'm not convinced it's a negative toll, for sure, because I think sometimes that losing can harden your resolve to turn things around, to give you an appreciation for the amount of work it takes to win in the NFL, so I actually think it could be a positive for a lot of guys in the locker room, especially, because many of those guys had nothing but success their entire athletic career, going back to when they started playing peewee football. They were always the best and they always won everything they did. So now you come in to the NFL and you realize that it takes a different level of commitment to be a good player and have a successful team in this league. I definitely think it can harden your resolve and effort, and really build a lot of character going through something like that." That doesn't simply extend to the younger players, however, as Thomas suggests a coach like Hue Jackson can derive positives from the situations for veterans players alike. "Now, certainly I think there is an argument to be mad that something like that, especially for the older guys, you can get bitter and checked out when going through so much losing, but I think a great coach, a guy like Hue, that's a great leader, a great motivator, can easily turn that around and use it as a positive moving forward." The whole press conference is absolutely fascinating. Thomas continues to talk about how the draft isn't overly important when compared to continuity, the right coaches and a great quarterback. Thomas was remarkably candid in his comments. One thing is for certain; Joe Thomas is a big believer in Hue Jackson, and he thinks the struggles of the past two years will soon prove to be worth it over the long term. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kIkT1839nk
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One thing is for certain; Joe Thomas is a big believer in Hue Jackson, and he thinks the struggles of the past two years will soon prove to be worth it over the long term. Joe is not going to the NFL HOF for his IQ or honesty. Two years of struggles soon proving worthwhile would be something like: 3-13 and 6-10 not 1-15 and 0-16 (or by a miracle of God 1-15 again)
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I want to believe him, and there were times that I looked at the situation the same way. But, this organization has been a mess for 20 years. I'll wait and see.
After fifty years of being a Browns fan, this was the one time I really considered abandoning ship in search of greener pastures and a team to be proud of. But, I just don't even know if that is possible. I'm a fan of the Browns deep in my heart, there is no way any other team could make me feel that way. I would always feel dirty trying to pretend that the new team was the same to me as the Browns.
I was 6 years old and the first time I saw the Browns was live in the old stadium. Nothing has effected me, as far as sports go, like that day. I have been a fan ever since.
RIP, Jim
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Yeah, two years of struggling doesn't guarantee anything year three. If anything the team could be younger. You'd think they couldn't get any worse but to think some giant leap is likely is wishful.
Last edited by 1oldMutt; 12/28/17 07:09 PM.
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I love Joe as much as the next guy, but he does tend to play the role of good soldier and be a mouthpiece for whoever is signing his checks at the time.
He's always the biggest fan of whatever new QB we're about to trot out there. I don't recall him ever saying anything bad about anybody that's in the building at the time. It's kind of common sense when I say it like that, but that's why I'm hesitant be like, "Oh, Joe Thomas says Hue's the man, so obviously Hue is the man".
"FIALURE IS NOT AN OPTION...!"
-mac
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We all should be talking about next season as if Hue is coming back.
Whether we agree or disagree with the decision doesn’t really matter at this point. If our owner was anyone other than Jimmy Haslam, and he said what Jimmy Haslam has said, I would agree with you. But our owner is Jimmy Haslam. Add to that the fact that we have a new GM with no ties to Hue Jackson and it leads to speculation.
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About week 6 in a moment of precognition, while reading a post I found myself answering that coach Mc--- somebody would fix it next year, so I'm going out on a limb that.
We end up with somebody named Mc something in some role.
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i dont know why he on the hotseat list.. owner already said he will be back next year....
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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i dont know why he on the hotseat list.. owner already said he will be back next year.... Oh, I don't know, maybe because Haslam came out and said this before firing Pettine and Farmer..... Browns owner Jimmy Haslam said that the team's win-loss record in 2015 will not affect the future of coach Mike Pettine and general manager Ray Farmer. "We're not going to blow things up, OK?" Haslam said Saturday after the Browns' third practice of training camp. "I think we're on the right track, so we're not going to blow things up. Haslam: We're Not Going to Blow Things Up 2015
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i dont know why he on the hotseat list.. owner already said he will be back next year.... Oh, I don't know, maybe because Haslam came out and said this before firing Pettine and Farmer..... Browns owner Jimmy Haslam said that the team's win-loss record in 2015 will not affect the future of coach Mike Pettine and general manager Ray Farmer. "We're not going to blow things up, OK?" Haslam said Saturday after the Browns' third practice of training camp. "I think we're on the right track, so we're not going to blow things up. Haslam: We're Not Going to Blow Things Up 2015 and it did not... it was all about the infighting... thats why everything got blown up.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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We all should be talking about next season as if Hue is coming back.
Whether we agree or disagree with the decision doesn’t really matter at this point. I agree. As of now Haslam has said Hue will be back. Until something changes, it is pointless to be thinking about other coaches.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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IMO, the following jobs will be open:
Jets
Bengals
Titans
Texans
Colts
Raiders
Broncos
Giants
Lions
Bears
Buccaneers
Cardinals
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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i dont know why he on the hotseat list.. owner already said he will be back next year.... Because no one believes a word that comes out of his mouth.
Is buttcheeks one word?
Or should I spread them apart?
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As I have stated a couple of timnes...if we fire HUE...I think Joe Thomas does not come back. Haslam's stay firm with Hue...Joe will work hard to come back!
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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i dont know why he on the hotseat list.. owner already said he will be back next year.... Oh, I don't know, maybe because Haslam came out and said this before firing Pettine and Farmer..... Browns owner Jimmy Haslam said that the team's win-loss record in 2015 will not affect the future of coach Mike Pettine and general manager Ray Farmer. "We're not going to blow things up, OK?" Haslam said Saturday after the Browns' third practice of training camp. "I think we're on the right track, so we're not going to blow things up. Haslam: We're Not Going to Blow Things Up 2015 and it did not... it was all about the infighting... thats why everything got blown up. So he found a different reason do the opposite of what he said.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Todd Bowles got an extension today, scratch him off the list.
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"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I never thought he would get fired.
Dude had the jets competing. Josh Mccown was playing excellent ball, and that team was fighting hard. For a team missing so much talent, they balled out.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I never thought he would get fired.
Dude had the jets competing. Josh Mccown was playing excellent ball, and that team was fighting hard. For a team missing so much talent, they balled out. Agreed. In the above article it said that the Cardinals might try to get him if Bruce Arians retires.
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Todd Bowles got an extension today, scratch him off the list. We have extended the contracts of general manager Mike Maccagnan and head coach Todd Bowles. DETAILS → http://nyj.social/2lsR9rB
You know my love will Not Fade Away.........
#gmSTRONG
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one coach that i think is AWFUL is Dirk Koetter. they have talent there
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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As I have stated a couple of timnes...if we fire HUE...I think Joe Thomas does not come back. Haslam's stay firm with Hue...Joe will work hard to come back!
jmho Why would you think that? There is no logical reason to think the decision for JT to come back is dependent on Hue.
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Not surprised. He's getting the most out of the personnel on the team.
His offense has McCown playing much better.
Tip of the cap to John Morton OC, Jeremy Bates QB coach, Karl Dorrel WRs.
His defense is decent.
Last edited by edromeo; 12/29/17 01:50 PM.
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We all should be talking about next season as if Hue is coming back.
Whether we agree or disagree with the decision doesn’t really matter at this point. I agree. As of now Haslam has said Hue will be back. Until something changes, it is pointless to be thinking about other coaches. No it is not, because I and many others I know will put the Browns on hold until they fire Hue. That's how strong the feeling is. I refuse to cheer for a low character losing coach and team... Staying with Hue is going to be the worst decision this franchise has ever made, and believe me we have made some really bad decisions. The fans are the only thing left on this team, staying with Hue means that they don't care for us, so its time to move on.
Last edited by rastanplan; 12/29/17 01:46 PM.
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one coach that i think is AWFUL is Dirk Koetter. they have talent there Kinda like us...
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one coach that i think is AWFUL is Dirk Koetter. they have talent there Kinda like us... i'd say they have more .. especially on O
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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one coach that i think is AWFUL is Dirk Koetter. they have talent there And, the sad thing is...didn't the owner/GM have a coup against Lovie Smith so they could promote Koetter? Karma hits hard and comes full circle.
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no offense bro, but we've seen so many posters claim they are leaving the team, refusing to watch, etc.
yet week after week, here yall are.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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no offense bro, but we've seen so many posters claim they are leaving the team, refusing to watch, etc.
yet week after week, here yall are. You are right Swish... but I never felt this way regarding any coach or FO on the new regime... And its not just me. Hue's behavior rubs many people the wrong way, he is just the kind of person that brings the worst in you. Didn't like Mangini, but I respected the person.. Holmgren was fired just before it was impossible to stand him. Hue and Haslam are a combination that I cannot swallow... There is nobody I can identify with...
Last edited by rastanplan; 12/29/17 02:15 PM.
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I understand the frustration. Trust me man, I want hue to have another year but I hate the way he throws players under the bus.
Once again we have to wait til next year, but at least give Hue the chance to work with a an he actually wants in the draft in the first round.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I understand the frustration. Trust me man, I want hue to have another year but I hate the way he throws players under the bus.
Once again we have to wait til next year, but at least give Hue the chance to work with a an he actually wants in the draft in the first round. Swish, even the hole jump in the lake makes me want to vomit.. He has a long way to make to regain his integrity and confidence, and still any step he takes is in the wrong direction. He should quit for the sake of the project, but he's bringing everybody down with him... And its not only me... guess a large majority of the fans have the same feelings. In the end I'm lucky because I hate the guy, I imagine what I would feel if I was supporting him,and seeing him do this things.
Last edited by rastanplan; 12/29/17 02:23 PM.
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I'm with rasta on the frustration with Hue. I want Hue to get at least another year, but that's only because I don't want to blow it up all over again right now.
The thing I'm having trouble with is how can Hue be this awesome dude, all the player's love him, etc when we got him from Cinci to a guy that throws people under the bus left and right?
How can he go from the offensive genius that had Andy f'ing Dalton looking like Tom Brady to the guy that did what he did to Kizer?
How can he go from the guy that had the dude that's not Gio Bernard or Joe Mixon (name escapes me) running the ball down everyone's throats to outright refusing to run the ball despite the line and the QB that we have?
I just can't wrap my head around those things... and not in a "I hate Hue" kinda way... in a literal "I can't understand this" kinda way.
"FIALURE IS NOT AN OPTION...!"
-mac
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Because the bengals had a quality qb, and quality receivers that weren’t suspended most of the seasons.
Hell, look how well he had McCarron playing under the circumstances.
He didn’t just lose his ability to coach. We have some serious problems on our roster, whether it be inexperience, lack of chemistry, and/or just some untalented players.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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I'm with rasta on the frustration with Hue. I want Hue to get at least another year, but that's only because I don't want to blow it up all over again right now.
The thing I'm having trouble with is how can Hue be this awesome dude, all the player's love him, etc when we got him from Cinci to a guy that throws people under the bus left and right?
How can he go from the offensive genius that had Andy f'ing Dalton looking like Tom Brady to the guy that did what he did to Kizer?
How can he go from the guy that had the dude that's not Gio Bernard or Joe Mixon (name escapes me) running the ball down everyone's throats to outright refusing to run the ball despite the line and the QB that we have?
I just can't wrap my head around those things... and not in a "I hate Hue" kinda way... in a literal "I can't understand this" kinda way. Don't get the logic, honestly. Hue is nothing but a mediocre coach and human being.. I rather put my faith in other type of persons... And believe me when I say that the only thing that can save this project is Hue quiting... And by the way, Hue was the OC for Bengals and former HC of the Raiders... He never won anything in his life. He's mediocre in every part of the game, and one of the worst leaders I have ever seen. He's an hell of a politician, that I have to give him credit. Problem is that I hate politicians...
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Because the bengals had a quality qb, and quality receivers that weren’t suspended most of the seasons.
Hell, look how well he had McCarron playing under the circumstances.
He didn’t just lose his ability to coach. We have some serious problems on our roster, whether it be inexperience, lack of chemistry, and/or just some untalented players. Swish, we have a solid OL and DL, wich are the foundation of any team. We went through more than 10 QB's and found nothing... We are now defending the Gimme Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers or we will suck Solid OL and DL, and you have an average team. Don't buy into the Vers BS... If we had signed an average FS and a bona fide RB, we would have been very competitive. Sure the team cannot be good without talent (I have stated that many times before), but we could be competitive. There is a whole different level of teams. Sure we cannot aim for playoffs, but we could be competitive with this talent. Hue is nothing but a mediocre Coach with great PR. This past years have been so incredible stupid, that its amazing how people still give the guy credibility...
Last edited by rastanplan; 12/29/17 02:38 PM.
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Our horrendous QB play is the problem.
Kizer can’t hit open players. We can’t win with such trash quality like that.
Look, if we don’t get 6 wins next year, in all aboard the fire hue train.
But I need to see our coach with an actual QB before I’m on board with firing him.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
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Dirk Koetter - C - Buccaneers
The Tampa Bay Times reports Bucs coach Dirk Koetter will return in 2018.
The Glazer family has told Koetter he won't be fired despite growing Jon Gruden rumors. Koetter had a highly dissapointing 2017 that included a pair of five-game losing streaks and concerning regression from Jameis Winston, but the Bucs plan to stick with him for at least another season. It won't be surprising if Koetter is forced to make some changes to his coaching staff.
Source: Tampa Bay Times Dec 29 - 4:16 PM
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