Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Haus Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
This is a somber article, and a phenomenon I mentioned here in the past a few times. It's kind of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" kind of scenario.

Quote:
Baltimore Residents Blame Record-High Murder Rate On Lower Police Presence

For the third year in a row, Baltimore, Md., has had more than 300 murders, reaching a new record of murders per number of residents in 2017.

Some residents attribute the high murder rate to relaxed police patrols in the city following high-profile cases of police brutality. Officers have backed off in neighborhoods, like the one where Freddie Gray was arrested.

The Rev. Kinji Scott, a pastor in Baltimore who's held positions in local city government, says the opposite needs to happen.

"We wanted the police there," Scott says. "We wanted them engaged in the community. We didn't want them beating the hell out of us, we didn't want that."

He's among activists who are calling for police reform to reduce the violence in Baltimore and several other high-crime cities across the U.S. that he says haven't seen change. That change begins with a conversation between the communities directly involved, Scott says.

"We need the front line police officers and we need the heart of the black community to step to the forefront of this discussion," he says. "And that's when we're going to see a decrease in crime."

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

When you think about young people who are out here facing these economic challenges and are homeless and living places that are uncertain, and you're a parent — you're scared. Not just for yourself really, but for your children.

The average age of a homicidal victim in Baltimore City right now is 31 years old. We had a young man who attended one of the prime high schools, [Baltimore Polytechnic Institute], Jonathan Tobash, and he was 19 years old, he was a Morgan State student. And he was killed on his way to the store. That's the state of Baltimore right now.

On whether the community wanted police to back off after the death of Freddie Gray

No. That represented our progressives, our activists, our liberal journalists, our politicians, but it did not represent the overall community. Because we know for a fact that around the time Freddie Gray was killed, we start to see homicides increase. We had five homicides in that neighborhood while we were protesting.


What I wanted to see happen was that people would be able to trust the relationship with our police department so that they would feel more comfortable. We'd have conversations with the police about crime in their neighborhood because they would feel safer. So we wanted the police there. We wanted them engaged in the community. We didn't want them beating the hell out of us, we didn't want that.

On whether the high murder rate is unique to Baltimore

It's not. I lost my brother in St. Louis in 2004; just lost my cousin in Chicago. No it's not unique, and that's the horrible thing.

On whether Ferguson, the killing of Michael Brown, and the birth of the Black Lives Matter movement has brought change

The primary thrust nationwide is what President Obama wanted to do: focus on building relationships with police departments and major cities where there had been a history of conflict. That hasn't happened. We don't see that. I don't know a city — Baltimore for certain — we've not seen any changes in those relationships. What we have seen is that the police has distanced themselves, and the community has distanced themselves even further. So the divide has really intensified, it hasn't decreased.

And of course we want to delineate the whole culture of bad policing that exists — nobody denies that — but as a result of this, we don't see the level of policing we need in our community to keep the crime down in our cities that we are seeing bleed to death.

On whether he's optimistic for 2018

I am not. Because I look at the conclusion of 2017, these same cities — St. Louis, Baltimore, New Orleans and Chicago — these same black cities are still bleeding to death and we're still burying young men in these cities.

I'm a preacher, I want to be hopeful, but not as it stands, no. Not until we really have a real conversation with our front line officers in the heart of our black communities that does not involve our people who are "leaders."

We need the front line police officers and we need the heart of the black community to step to the forefront of this discussion. And that's when we're going to see a decrease in crime.

It's a sad situation in many cities. I've missed some of the recent discussions here-- has anyone come up with new ideas in the last month or so?

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,946
P
PDF Offline
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
P
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,946
Here is a very lengthy and well thought discussion on Baltimore in particular -

https://youtu.be/qulcqNMHVic

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,065
Likes: 782
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,065
Likes: 782
here's an idea: maybe people would trust the baltimore cops more if they weren't busy planting evidence on people in order to arrest them

funny that you decided not to post that, though.

lemme guess, you weren't aware.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Haus Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Hey Swish, good to see you again!

A reasonable question would go something like this: is avoiding the occasional bad encounter with police worth a significant increase in homicides and other violent crimes? It's an honest question, and one that many cities have had to deal with. The "Ferguson Effect" could just as easily be called the "Baltimore Effect", "Chicago Effect", etc.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,065
Likes: 782
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,065
Likes: 782
as soon as you answer my question as to why you blatantly ignored cops planting evidence, then i'll give you a well, thought out response to your article.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
C
~
Legend
Offline
~
Legend
C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
Thread title says "residents" but only quotes a known Conservative pastor who has been blaming the liberals in the city for the past 6 months? lol

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Haus Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Originally Posted By: Swish
as soon as you answer my question as to why you blatantly ignored cops planting evidence, then i'll give you a well, thought out response to your article.

I'm not sure what all that has to do with the repeated observations that when police back off of proactive policing in violent neighborhoods, violent crime inevitably goes up.

I also think planting evidence is an extremely dirty tactic, and completely unbecoming of a police officer or anybody in authority for that matter. That should be a serious crime as I'm sure it is. What more would you like to know about that?

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Haus Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
Thread title says "residents" but only quotes a known Conservative pastor who has been blaming the liberals in the city for the past 6 months? lol

He sounds alright to me lol

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,065
Likes: 782
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,065
Likes: 782
because it's a false narrative.

My comment has to do with the topic because there's no trust within the community and law enforcement, and i stated one of many reasons as to why.

there's plenty of LEO's in the suburbs, yet that hasn't stopped the opioid crisis, which has led to violence and other crimes.

so this idea that more cop presence will curve violence is something i never agreed with, especially since i experienced it first hand. putting more cops on the street isn't addressing the problem.

it's feel good solution for guys like you to "feel" safer, which actually means "we need more cops, not to actually solve problems, but to keep the people in the hood from spilling out into the neighborhood in which i live".

i took a quick look at the demographics, and the the pastor comments are obviously wrong. baltimore is a liberal city, so the narrative of the groups he mentioned is the actual narrative of the community. his opinion is in the minority...surrounded by minorities.

but that's classic Haus: only offer solutions to symptoms, instead of solutions to root problems.

lack of education, lack of job skills, lack of investment into the communities is what leads to a rise in violence. you address those problems, and history has shown that violence will go down. if you're not addressing WHY people are being violent, but instead try to address the ACT itself, then the problem is never gonna go away.

and when you have corrupt cops, it only further leads to problems. the people of baltimore as a whole do not trust the cops, and they have zero reason to.



Last edited by Swish; 01/03/18 09:30 PM.

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Haus Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
I posted this in one of the old social justice threads. It seems just as relevant now as it was back then:

Quote:
The claim that police were going around gunning down unarmed black men was not your claim. It was Swish's. I should have done a better job of clarifying that.

You make some good points about policing and profiling and such. I agree that it's hard for people who haven't been harassed to understand how that feels.

There's a trade off between things. The reality is that some neighborhoods have more crime than others, and that's where police attention tends to be focused.

Here's what I've been able to piece together based on a variety of data I've looked at: Many cities (often under pressure from BLM, the Justice Department, the ACLU, etc.) have indeed changed their tactics to a more hands off, less proactive type of policing with far less discretionary stops. All the good stuff we talk about.

And now that more recent crime data has become available, what you notice is that once those changes are made, there is an immediate and significant increase in murders and other violent crime. This is true for Chicago and several other major cities where the local police department was pressured to change its tactics. There were about 300 more murders in Chicago in 2016 than in 2015, for example. Well the changes to that department were made right around the end of 2015/start of 2016... go figure.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,065
Likes: 782
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,065
Likes: 782
and you're still just as tone death as ever.

happy new year. clearly nothing changed.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Haus Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Originally Posted By: Swish
and you're still just as tone death as ever.

happy new year. clearly nothing changed.

Happy new year to you also. I hope all is well with you over there.

Tone death... you haven't heard tone death until you've heard me sing.

As far as being tone... deaf, the tragic reality is that there has been a large increase in murders in several major cities. To some extent, I feel this is based on a flawed understanding of what is going on. I'm trying to bring awareness to this in the best way I know how.

Here's a question for you: what is the single factor most strongly correlated with the violent crime rate of an area? It's not poverty rate, socioeconomic status, or anything of the sort.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
C
~
Legend
Offline
~
Legend
C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
The problem isn't "proactive policing" whatever nonsense pretense that is. No one is going to trust Baltimore police when the Police Department doesn't even look after their own. If Cops won't serve and protect their own, then who will they protect and serve?

Baltimore officer was killed with his own gun, police say

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/22/us/baltimore-police-officer-shot-with-own-gun/index.html

I've been sitting on that story now for a few months, wondering which #bluelivesmatter poster would talk about this first. Of course, none did. Is it surprising that Chicago and Baltimore, where crime rates are the horrible, have the most police corruption? Not really.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Haus Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
The problem isn't "proactive policing" whatever nonsense pretense that is. No one is going to trust Baltimore police when the Police Department doesn't even look after their own. If Cops won't serve and protect their own, then who will they protect and serve?

Baltimore officer was killed with his own gun, police say

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/22/us/baltimore-police-officer-shot-with-own-gun/index.html

I've been sitting on that story now for a few months, wondering which #bluelivesmatter poster would talk about this first. Of course, none did. Is it surprising that Chicago and Baltimore, where crime rates are the horrible, have the most police corruption? Not really.

Is it surprising? Not really-- I have to agree to that extent.

The deeper question is whether it's crime and corruption directly affecting each other, or there is some other factor that predisposes an area to both high crime and high levels of corruption.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
C
~
Legend
Offline
~
Legend
C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
Originally Posted By: Haus
Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
The problem isn't "proactive policing" whatever nonsense pretense that is. No one is going to trust Baltimore police when the Police Department doesn't even look after their own. If Cops won't serve and protect their own, then who will they protect and serve?

Baltimore officer was killed with his own gun, police say

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/22/us/baltimore-police-officer-shot-with-own-gun/index.html

I've been sitting on that story now for a few months, wondering which #bluelivesmatter poster would talk about this first. Of course, none did. Is it surprising that Chicago and Baltimore, where crime rates are the horrible, have the most police corruption? Not really.

Is it surprising? Not really-- I have to agree to that extent.

The deeper question is whether it's crime and corruption directly affecting each other, or there is some other factor that predisposes an area to both high crime and high levels of corruption.


Like many things in life, the outcome is not based off of a singular event. No matter how much you want it to be.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Haus Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Quote:
Like many things in life, the outcome is not based off of a singular event. No matter how much you want it to be.


Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Likes: 13
D
Legend
Offline
Legend
D
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Likes: 13
YA ... its the police corruption ... rolleyes ...

It has nuttin to do with PUNK ASS DRUG DEALING CRIMINALS that have ZERO RESPECT for life ... its all the cops fault ... thumbsup




Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,946
P
PDF Offline
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
P
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,946
Originally Posted By: Haus
Hey Swish, good to see you again!

A reasonable question would go something like this: is avoiding the occasional bad encounter with police worth a significant increase in homicides and other violent crimes? It's an honest question, and one that many cities have had to deal with. The "Ferguson Effect" could just as easily be called the "Baltimore Effect", "Chicago Effect", etc.


"Bad encounters" aren't "occasional".

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/09/the-counted-police-killings-us-vs-other-countries

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Likes: 116
4
Legend
Offline
Legend
4
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 25,823
Likes: 116
JFK's nephew says Emanuel has plan to force black people out of Chicago

In a war of words between heavyweight names in the national Democratic establishment, a Kennedy running for governor has slammed Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel for his alleged complicity in a gentrification plan that critics say is forcing African-Americans and other minorities out of the country’s third-largest city.

“I believe that black people are being pushed out of Chicago intentionally by a strategy that involves disinvestment in communities being implemented by the city administration,” said Chris Kennedy, who is running for the Democratic gubernatorial nomination ahead of a March 20 primary. “I believe Rahm Emanuel is the head of the city administration and therefore needs to be held responsible for those outcomes,” Kennedy said, according to the Chicago Tribune.

“This is involuntary. That we’re cutting off funding for schools, cutting off funding for police, allowing people to be forced to live in food deserts, closing hospitals, closing access to mental health facilities. What choice do people have but to move, to leave?” Kennedy was quoted as saying. “And I think that’s part of a strategic gentrification plan being implemented by the city of Chicago to push people of color out of the city. The city is becoming smaller, and as it becomes smaller, it’s become whiter.”

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/...ut-chicago.html

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,946
P
PDF Offline
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
P
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,946
Chicago has driven blacks south since the 1950's.

This isn't anything new. It's the most segregated metropolitan area in America.

It's long been used as a racial wedge for that reason.

There's no secret that when Trump says "Chicago" he means "black".


Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Likes: 13
D
Legend
Offline
Legend
D
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Likes: 13
I didn’t see CUT FUNDING FOR COPS in there did i? .... Naaa ... i couldn’t have ... rolleyes ...

And at the same time were cutting funding for mental health care ... thats a good formula ... rolleyes ...




Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Haus Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Originally Posted By: PDF
Chicago has driven blacks south since the 1950's.

This isn't anything new. It's the most segregated metropolitan area in America.

It's long been used as a racial wedge for that reason.

There's no secret that when Trump says "Chicago" he means "black".


Care to post a racial breakdown of crime in Chicago? If that is not possible, how about one map showing demographics of the city and another showing the homicides.

I just think that before you go and make assumptions about what somebody means so you can label them a racist, we should at least get the facts straight. Is that fair?

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
C
~
Legend
Offline
~
Legend
C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
Originally Posted By: Haus

Care to post a racial breakdown of crime in Chicago? If that is not possible, how about one map showing demographics of the city and another showing the homicides.

I just think that before you go and make assumptions about what somebody means so you can label them a racist, we should at least get the facts straight. Is that fair?


Why are you trying to get a map and crime stats? Are you trying to point out that racism is a good thing by showing the effects of racism?

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Haus Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
Originally Posted By: Haus

Care to post a racial breakdown of crime in Chicago? If that is not possible, how about one map showing demographics of the city and another showing the homicides.

I just think that before you go and make assumptions about what somebody means so you can label them a racist, we should at least get the facts straight. Is that fair?


Why are you trying to get a map and crime stats? Are you trying to point out that racism is a good thing by showing the effects of racism?

You will have to ask PDF what he meant when he said this:
Quote:
There's no secret that when Trump says "Chicago" he means "black".

I tried to make some inferences into what he meant, and why he brought it up.

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,946
P
PDF Offline
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
P
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,946
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chica...1017-story.html

Writer Ta-Nehisi Coates didn’t get to be the most discussed public intellectual in America by pussyfooting around when it comes to race.

So he was characteristically direct this week during a trip to Chicago, telling Chicago Inc. that President Donald Trump and conservatives “use Chicago as a tool — ‘Chicago’ has become code for ‘black people.’ ”

Raised in Baltimore in the 1980s, Coates won the National Book Award for his 2015 memoir “Between the World and Me” and has become a darling of the left for his trenchant criticism of the central role of white supremacy in U.S. history. He said the constant national focus on Chicago’s crime problem started under President Barack Obama as a way to diminish the first black chief executive.

“They use ‘Chicago’ to shame people,” he said. “I’m from Baltimore and I grew up in the height of the crack era,” he said. “I’m not trying to make light of any of the violence in Chicago at all that you see on the West Side or the South Side, but this sense that Chicago is somehow alien or outside of America is just absurd, it’s ridiculous.

“I love Baltimore, but I go back and they are still struggling with the same problems they were in 1985.”

Coates spoke Monday at the Chicago Humanities Festival and was scheduled to speak at an event in Lincoln Park and at Evanston Township High School this week — evidence of the high demand he is in. In addition to serving as a national correspondent at The Atlantic, he also writes Marvel’s “Black Panther” comic and is about to start work on a movie script about a school exam cheating scandal, starring Michael B. Jordan and adapted from a New Yorker article.

Still, Coates rejected the idea that Trump’s election had benefited him personally by creating an audience more receptive to his message.

“I would rather he had not won,” Coates said. “And I would have been saying the same thing if Hillary had won.”

“There’s always going to be people who don’t like what you’re doing, but you can’t have everybody love you. … If you are fortunate enough to get any type of large readership, there will be people who don’t like what you do, and that’s fine.”

The White House couldn’t immediately be reached for comment.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Haus Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
There can be a number of reasons to bring up Chicago:

1. It can be used to illustrate the failure of city-planning by the Democratic party in cities across America.

2. It can be used to show the failure of strict gun laws to affect meaningful change in a city. Criminals find a way to do harm one way or another.

3. To your point, it can be used by people who have committed the thoughtcrime of noticing that all majority-black areas of significant population have high crime rates.

Why would anybody have to do this? Maybe they are mean-spirited. Maybe they want to have an intellectual discussion, or want to convey the information to others for some useful reason. I just don't know. I have a hard time reading people's minds.

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,946
P
PDF Offline
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
P
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,946
Originally Posted By: Haus
3. To your point, it can be used by people who have committed the thoughtcrime of noticing that all majority-black areas of significant population have high crime rates.


I wouldn't call this a "thoughtcrime" so much as being laughably ignorant and racist, but, yes, this is what I mean when I say that "Chicago" is used as a code word for "black" by Trump other other racists of his ilk.

Crime is tied to poverty and a lack of education, not race.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
C
~
Legend
Offline
~
Legend
C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
If you're going to list moronic reasons, you might as well mention that Trump has a failing property right next to the Loop.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Haus Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
How can something be laughably ignorant and also true? Feel free to provide a counterexample. I have searched for one and could not find it. Maybe you can do better-- here is a start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._cities_with_large_African-American_populations

Quote:
Crime is tied to poverty and a lack of education, not race.

The correlation between the percentage of black population of an area and violent crime is something absurd like .80-.90 (depending on how things are tracked). It is one of the strongest correlations ever found in the social sciences and quite a bit stronger than the correlation between poverty and crime, education and crime, etc. In fact, the demographics angle is stronger than all of those combined.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
C
~
Legend
Offline
~
Legend
C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/bs-md-ci-new-youth-jail-20170907-story.html

In September of last year Baltimore built a $35 million dollar youth jail.

Last week the Teacher's Union called for schools to be closed as the classrooms in Baltimore's public schools do not have a heat.
https://www.npr.org/2018/01/03/575337312...igid-classrooms


And people wonder why the city is such a haven for crime.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Haus Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
I posted a video a while back of teacher-turned-whistleblower from Baltimore schools. It went into many of the problems in Baltimore schools, some of them quite saddening. Where does all the money go? Baltimore schools spend more than $15,000 per student per year.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
C
~
Legend
Offline
~
Legend
C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
Originally Posted By: Haus

The correlation between the percentage of black population of an area and violent crime is something absurd like .80-.90 (depending on how things are tracked). It is one of the strongest correlations ever found in the social sciences and quite a bit stronger than the correlation between poverty and crime, education and crime, etc. In fact, the demographics angle is stronger than all of those combined.


Come on, Haus. You can't be this stupid. I'd expect something like this from 40 or Diam. But not someone who thinks that they are educated. Poor show.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Haus Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
If you're going to list moronic reasons, you might as well mention that Trump has a failing property right next to the Loop.

Obama's stunning success as a community organizer is another good reason.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Haus Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
Originally Posted By: Haus

The correlation between the percentage of black population of an area and violent crime is something absurd like .80-.90 (depending on how things are tracked). It is one of the strongest correlations ever found in the social sciences and quite a bit stronger than the correlation between poverty and crime, education and crime, etc. In fact, the demographics angle is stronger than all of those combined.


Come on, Haus. You can't be this stupid. I'd expect something like this from 40 or Diam. But not someone who thinks that they are educated. Poor show.

The 'educated' response to this is that it all comes down to poverty, and the typical reason given for this is that there is a fairly strong correlation between poverty rate and crime. However, in doing so, they ignore the significantly stronger correlation between demographics and crime.

The correlation between poverty rate and violent crime is actually pretty weak among non-blacks. There are plenty of poor white, asian, and hispanic majority neighborhoods that have low crime.

I'm sorry you've been lied to about this over the years but all I can do is show you the truth. Whether you follow up on it or reject it out of hand is up to you.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
C
~
Legend
Offline
~
Legend
C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
Remember when you cried last year when everyone called you alt-right? I don't think the forum should've stopped calling you alt-right.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Haus Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
You can't even address the topic at hand without resorting to ad hominems. What does it say about your view that it doesn't hold up when challenged? It's like you are so shocked that somebody can be so blunt about a topic that almost everybody else dances around that you don't know how to respond.

You can call me alt-right all you want. I don't care about your opinion. I'm not alt-right and never have been.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
C
~
Legend
Offline
~
Legend
C
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
You haven't posted any stats or links. How can I refute racist nonsense without stats? What is their to refute? You just said black people are more violent. I can't refute racist nonsense. If you could, the alt-right wouldn't be a thing. Instead, you're sitting here today.

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,065
Likes: 782
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,065
Likes: 782
Originally Posted By: Haus
Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
Originally Posted By: Haus

The correlation between the percentage of black population of an area and violent crime is something absurd like .80-.90 (depending on how things are tracked). It is one of the strongest correlations ever found in the social sciences and quite a bit stronger than the correlation between poverty and crime, education and crime, etc. In fact, the demographics angle is stronger than all of those combined.


Come on, Haus. You can't be this stupid. I'd expect something like this from 40 or Diam. But not someone who thinks that they are educated. Poor show.

The 'educated' response to this is that it all comes down to poverty, and the typical reason given for this is that there is a fairly strong correlation between poverty rate and crime. However, in doing so, they ignore the significantly stronger correlation between demographics and crime.

The correlation between poverty rate and violent crime is actually pretty weak among non-blacks. There are plenty of poor white, asian, and hispanic majority neighborhoods that have low crime.

I'm sorry you've been lied to about this over the years but all I can do is show you the truth. Whether you follow up on it or reject it out of hand is up to you.


ok. maybe i'm the only one seeing this, but right now you just blatantly implied that blacks are somehow inherently racist for no other reason than ethnicity.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

- Theodore Roosevelt
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Haus Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
The FBI data is always a good place to start, keeping in mind that whites make up about 5x more of the population of blacks: https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/43tabledatadecoverviewpdf

Areas within a city can be a little challenging as people are so afraid to talk about race, these discussions are usually censored on social media, etc. Some people have a better idea than they let on though. For example, PDF correctly noted that the bulk of Chicago's black population is in the south of that city. There's also a smaller pocket on the west side. Now research where the gun crime happens.

It's basically the same thing, right? You implicitly acknowledged this earlier in the thread after the map comments were made. The thing is, this is not unique to Chicago or even American cities for that matter. Many countries have banned racial reporting of crime data for precisely this reason, but those where it is still tracked all show the same thing.

Possible idea for further research: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._cities_with_large_African-American_populations

Top Ten cities with 100,000 or more total population and the highest percentages of Blacks or African-Americans, alone or with other races

Detroit, MI 84.3%
Jackson, MS 80.1%
Miami Gardens, FL 77.9%
Birmingham, AL 74.0%
Baltimore, MD 65.1%
Memphis, TN 64.1%
New Orleans, LA 61.2%
Flint, MI 59.5%
Montgomery, AL 57.4%
Savannah, GA 56.7%

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
H
Haus Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
H
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 6,445
Originally Posted By: Swish
Originally Posted By: Haus
Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
Originally Posted By: Haus

The correlation between the percentage of black population of an area and violent crime is something absurd like .80-.90 (depending on how things are tracked). It is one of the strongest correlations ever found in the social sciences and quite a bit stronger than the correlation between poverty and crime, education and crime, etc. In fact, the demographics angle is stronger than all of those combined.


Come on, Haus. You can't be this stupid. I'd expect something like this from 40 or Diam. But not someone who thinks that they are educated. Poor show.

The 'educated' response to this is that it all comes down to poverty, and the typical reason given for this is that there is a fairly strong correlation between poverty rate and crime. However, in doing so, they ignore the significantly stronger correlation between demographics and crime.

The correlation between poverty rate and violent crime is actually pretty weak among non-blacks. There are plenty of poor white, asian, and hispanic majority neighborhoods that have low crime.

I'm sorry you've been lied to about this over the years but all I can do is show you the truth. Whether you follow up on it or reject it out of hand is up to you.


ok. maybe i'm the only one seeing this, but right now you just blatantly implied that blacks are somehow inherently racist for no other reason than ethnicity.

I'm saying that blacks have the highest crime rates for most categories and all majority black areas of significant population have high crime rates. That nobody can provide a single counterexample should tell you all that you need to know.

Of course, it is only fair to say that the large majority of blacks do not commit crimes! I do not understand why the racial crime data is such a sensitive topic. The data says what it says. I'm not using it against you, Swish. People should be judged on their own character.

Last edited by Haus; 01/06/18 12:17 PM.
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Baltimore Residents Blame Record-High Murder Rate On Lower Police Presence

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5