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Thanks dean fairchild although link number 2 won't open ...

thanks dean

Fixed the link....

Thanks just checked it out and I love the fact he favors WR and Safeties

Yep. And at the exact same time, if the players had actually executed the plays that were called, people would think Hue is a genius.

Or, If Hue had set his players up to succeed instead of fail we might have won a few games this year.

I agree Palmer got more out of an expansion club roster than Hue has with a lot more talent.

Players should be able to execute better if they were coached properly.

quote above by pit:



Wouldn't you?

As you've said many times yourself, too many uncalled for mistakes, miscues, lack of discipline.

The players love Hue. He's their buddy.

The Browns don't need a coach who's popular with the players.

Once they can Hue Jackson, they need a strong head coach who practices and demands hard-work and concentration.

And has the 100% support of the owner.

Yeah, when half of your roster is first and second year players... when a FO hands you a QB who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, it's the coaches fault the team isn't winning.

Obviously the man they both reported to, the man who signs the checks, the man who knows more than we all do, the man who actually knows what goes on behind closed doors in Berea disagrees with you.

But you just keep chugging along anyway for all of the good it's doing you.

[sarcasm]Well of course they do.[/sarcasm]

Hey, if you want the closest thing to that perfect HC you describe, it must be Bill Belichick or bust for you. Every HC in this league makes mistakes. They only seem to be important if the team loses.

That or you need players with the ability to execute. Just remember what Dorsey had to say about this roster and the talent on this team. Of course I'm sure you think you know more than Dorsey as well.

Did you forget that we drafted four WR's from the same weak WR class? That Coleman was supposed to be the cream and the rest were a bunch of mid round picks?

Yeah, they're so good Hue is the problem.. lmao

by pit above:



We're talking a lot more than "mistakes".

Right?

You do realize that, right?

That the Browns are a very undisciplined team?

The just went 1-31.

That's more than a few mistakes.

Pit, did you even stop a little bit to check the integrity of your points...

I will not say the obvious one, which is the it was Hue that played Kizer. He had several option and kept playing him,and demanded he to throw the ball 2/3 attempts...

Lets go back to the moment when Hue was hired. Hue was a reputable OC, and Browns job at that time was already one of the worst jobs in the NFL.

Now, we were all sold, that Hue was a great coach that chose to embrace Sashi project. Actually he was the credible part of the project, and came here with the fame of being a QB whisperer...

So, do you actually believe that Hue, who had the bargaining power, accepted the Browns Job with blind faith in Sashi?


That any coach would gladly surrender the roster and QB choice power to management if they could retain it...

It would only take Hue to say something like: I will take the job only if I can chose my QB and have a say on the roster...

The story that Hue had no say on the players we drafted, signed or cut, is complete fantasy.

There is no way the Browns were in a position to bargain with a Coach with Hue's market at that time.

we also could say that someone with integrity, if faced with a challenge and goals that cannot keep, would just quit.

Hue didn't quit, did he? Even in fantasy land he willing accepted the conditions, so why are you making excuses for him?

I do think WSU wants this thread to be about "the roster" and not another Hue thread.

I apologize for my role in this. I should have ignored peen's comment.

Maybe we can get back to the roster?

Wow, I didn’t mean to start an argument, my point wasn’t that all of the issues were Hues fault, just that he wasn’t completely blameless. I know the players didn’t execute well enough. I saw that. But some execution problems should have been able to be fixed as the season went on, week 17 I was still seeing the same execution problems. Now to me the coaches have to shoulder some of that blame, maybe not all of it but definitely some.

Still a long time till next season, so why hurry up...

And I don't think any Browns discussion will leave Hue out of it...not until some sense is made and he his fired.

Hey, vers....


Did you ever get a chance to look at the two QBs I mentioned a couple days ago? Mike white, from western Kentucky, and Drew Lock of Missouri? White is a senior and Lock a junior who looks like he’s returning to school.

I haven't. Thanks for the reminder.

I know neither will be first rounders but I liked what I saw to an extent, and waiting on a second or third rounder would probably put browns fans up in mutinany. I was only asking for my own knowledge.

j/c

I copied the link from the official Browns website. I sorted by Experience. It makes for a crazy visual without even looking at the names:

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/roster.html

Peak at the number of players heading into their 2nd or 3rd year...astounding. I thought Jamar Taylor was much younger...yikes. There are (9) guys heading onto year (2) that we did not draft.

Your brilliant HC decided to start that kid week one and ran the veteran on the squad off the roster. Try as you might you are never going to pin choosing who starts on Sashi.

Our expansion roster was full of players that weren't even drafted and outcasts from other teams. We had turn-styles at every position on the o-line without any Pro-Bowl Guards or Tackles.

This league is also set up for parity a lot more then it was back then as well. But our HC, the one you call a liar, somehow managed to break that parity two years running.

Well I was big on Patrick Mahomes and Hunt , so maybe I will be a Dorsey Fan .

And what's most amazing is that the complete rebuild of DL, and the OL, and the replacement of a HOFER LT mid season, is completely left out of the arguments....

Hey, maybe Hue had a say on choosing lineman but not on what QB to start or the choice of the 3rd QB on the team and practice squad...

The levels of fantasy are amazing in some people...

Interesting.

I think it will be crazy next year when we have so many guys w/expiring rookie contracts.

As much as I don’t like Hue, never did, I can’t believe Sashi forced him to play Kizer, that’s usually a coaches decision. I think Hue player who he THOUGHT gave him the best chance to win. I think he probably thought he could get more from him then he did. I don’t agree with his decision to start him right away like that but I do believe that it was his decision.

j/c

How awesome is it that Drango played so well...again...this year. Last year as a rookie he played "out-of-position" (from college anyway) and filled in quite nicely...and that was with Erving and basically eotab at his right hand (C). Then he gets thrust into JT's shoes and played quite well again...in just his 2nd year. Impressive. I wonder if he will give Coleman a run for the starting RT job after what he showed at LT? Does anyone remember if Drango was the LT in practice on Joe's days off?

FWIW: On another site I regularly read how surprised some guys were at the improvement showed by Rod Johnson throughout camp before he got hurt. They all acknowledged that he has/had a long way to go but essentially stated that he was quite ahead of where they thought he could be/get in such a short time.

Three new starters on the OL...a returning starter at LG who missed much of the prior year with injury...and a 5th Rd, 2nd year guy steps in at LT for a living legend and plays well. Maybe Wylie does know what he's doing?

Dean, the whole argument that Hue had no saying on the QB and roster is just fantasy of some..

Hue held all the bargaining chips when he signed for the Browns, he could have made any reasonable requests,and some unreasonable ones, he was that fundamental for the credibility of the project.

I think Erving and Johnson filled in for Joe during camp.

I’m saying it was his decision.

I'll do my part and not respond to the silliness above.

I was talking about this with a friend the other evening. Something that gets over-looked (so it seems) when discussing past GMs (who didn't re-sign coveted guys for whatever reason) is that some of those guys probably should have been re-signed long before they became free agents and were up against a time deadline. Easier said than done...I know...but a legit point nonetheless.

We got to that topic after talking about how much salary cap we have to burn. It's not as giant as we think if we sign a big name QB and re-up (early) some of the young, coveted talent. There is some work to be done here for sure.

LOL

Anyway, what areas of the roster do you think there could be the most change?

I think the QB room is going to look very different. The WRs and secondary will certainly be different. Crow will probably be gone.

The OL should remain fairly static. The linebackers probably won't change much. The DL shouldn't change much. Not sure about the TEs. We could use one dependable guy. Maybe a FA vet. Then again, maybe not. LOL

As long as Dorsey doesn't go too crazy with cap money, we should be okay.

A lot of those guys will be RFA's and ERFA's some will be replaced by this year's draft class.

We probably want to get Duke locked-up before his contract is up. I wouldn't wait too long. He's become very valuable.

He took some issues with Hue's statements about the team, so that might not be doable.

Duke wants to retire as a Brown.

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-brow...owns--112788765

I actually think it's going to be quite a balancing act. I think most would agree that we need to put talent around the rookie QB that we'll draft. So to me I think there will be a lot invested at the WR position. Hopefully a quality FA signing as a security blanket for a rookie QB along with one high draft pick at the position.



Hopefully we'll have an at least average FA signing at QB along with Rosen as our #1 pick in the QB room. I think they should keep Kizer and cut Hogan and Kessler loose. For all of the blather spewed on here, staring either of those two instead of Kizer would have been an even bigger disaster and there's no doubt in my mind that of the three, Kizer certainly has the most upside and it's not even close.

I agree with you about Crow and I can understand that. I mean I like Crow but I don't consider him an elite RB. From a dollars and cents standpoint, you could probably draft a third round RB and get equal production for a much better price than signing Crow to a veteran contract.



I agree with that for the most part. I still have grave concerns about Shon Coleman. Maybe I'm just missing what a lot of people claim to be seeing. But he's had either 14 or 15 called penalties this season and while some wish to dismiss that because he's young, I see that as a pretty big issue. With that concern in mind and knowing Joe Thomas is closing in on the end of his career, I certainly wouldn't complain about an investment at the OT position.

I'm certainly hoping we'll see turnover in the secondary. That's where the balancing act I mentioned earlier comes into play. We need a huge influx of talent in our secondary. Band aids aren't going to do it. I don't see a true cover CB on this roster. I like BBC but he's no more than depth at the CB at best. At the very least we need to sign one FA CB and draft another one high in the draft. Maybe in that scenario McCourty could move to FS.

But I don't see any way in the world you could pass on a talent like Minkah Fitzpatrick if he's sitting there at #4.

In order of need I would place the list like this.

QB, CB, FS, WR

I would certainly put QB way above the rest. After that, I believe you have to look at BPA in the other positions. That's why I would value Minkah Fitzpatrick at #4 over the CB position at #4.

Second tier needs.

RB, OT

He fell in the draft and I felt that he was a steal for us. IIRC, it was projected that he would be the eventual replacement for JT. And yes, Wylie seems to be doing a very effective job with the Oline.

We best take a qb at 1 ... that regardless of what we do in FA ... short of signing Cousins ... the rest is contingent upon what we do in FA ...

at 4 take Fitz ... hes possibly the best BPA but he’s definetly a STUD at a position that takes a HUGE STEP in making our D DOMINANT!!! ... i don’t see how we can pass on that opportunity ...

After that in no particular order ... CB, CB, WR is the A list ... WR, RB, MLBer, OL on the B list....

And one thing I think we have to get is a “POSSESION WR” like an Adam Thielen type guy ... we really need someone with good hands, that runs good routes and can be counted on for the 3rd down catch ala Brian Brennan ,,,,

At this point I think it'll be:

1. Whatever QB Dorsey wants.
2. Fitz or Barkley.