Let's take a look at the roster as it stands today:

O

Thomas, Bitonio, Tretter, Zeitler, Coleman as starters. Drango, Martin, Reiter and a bunch of ??? as backups.

We need Thomas to return and Coleman to improve. Drango has been a very pleasant surprise and our depth here with Martin is pretty decent. This is a good group with 'some' depth. I don't see us getting too drafty here unless Thomas hangs it up.

Kizer, Kessler, Hogan

We need a lot of help here... a lot. I think all but Kizer will be gone next year. I expect we will draft a QB 1st overall, maybe even add a second guy later on and look to add a vet FA.

Duke, Crow, Dayes, Vitale and the new guy

I won't be surprised if Duke is the only holdover to '18. Lots of RB depth in the '18 draft.

Njoku, DeValve, Telfer and a couple other dudes

I like the potential of this group. I think Telfer is the most-replaceable guy of the (3) named here. I don't expect us to spend a high pick here.

Gordon, Coleman, Higgins, Louis, Coates, and some guys who either can't catch or get open...or both

I like the first three guys named here and the rest are take-em-or-leave-em types. We'd be nuts to NOT draft a WR with a top-ish pick...I think we need a vet too.

D

Garrett, Ogbah, Nassib, Shelton, Coley, Ogunjobi, Brantley, Orchard, Meder, Edwards

I like this group. We really need one of the interior guys to show the ability to penetrate and we need another pass-rusher...even if just a situational vet type. In this group I often wonder what any of these young guys would look like on a veteran DL where they weren't one of the better players along the line. Specifically, Coley, Ogunjobi & Brantley...even Nassib. I'll be surprised if we use one of our first 6 picks here.

Collins, Kirksey, Shobert, Burgess and some guys

Something is missing here and I'm not sure what. I like the four guys named here. I think Peppers should be put back in that hybrid role. I won't be surprised if we use a one of our first 6 picks here if the right guy falls.

Taylor, BBC, McCourty, MJ, Peppers, Kindred, Nacua, Smith, Currie and some guys in jerseys and Wilson

We obviously need corners and a FS. I'll be shocked if we don't use one or two of out first (6) picks here. BBC and Taylor were dinged up a lot this year and Wilson never played. There are some good players here, but we need a stud back there.

Colquitt, Gonzo, Hughlett

I think we are set here. Gonzo really improved from a shaky start.

Needs: QB, WR, RB, FS, CB
Wants: DL (pass rusher and penetrating DT), LB, TE, OL

I don't think the roster is bad per se...but the lack of experience is astounding. There are a lot of pieces to work with and some of these guys are likely moreso career backups as opposed to starters.

This team gets better in a hurry if we can address the (5) needs listed above. We've got (6) "high-ish" draft picks to that end.

I quickly put together this list when thinking about the roster. The following guys will be entering the vaunted 3rd year in 2018:

Ogbah
Kindred
Shobert
Nassib
BBC
Coley
Burgess

C Coleman
S Coleman
DeValve
Higgins
Drango
Louis
Kessler
Hogan

I expect a few of these guys to be out in '18. However, there are a lot of starters on that list and a lot of guys who start-ED a fair amount of games in their first two years. Not too shabby...especially if these guys get that 3rd-year-in-the-league bump in their play.

Spot on with Line Backing Corp...... Like you, I can't put my finger on it .. As a group they seem play a day late & a dollar short .. We know they can't cover a running on passing downs and don't even get me started on TE coverage , lol ..

I wonder how much of that is scheme ??

Good thoughts IMO. I think Brantley will stud out next year. He was showing signs this year.

If we get a QB, we probably need more on the defensive side of the ball from a numbers standpoint.

I think FA will be a big boost. I think we will sign a receiver, QB, maybe a O-lineman and maybe a corner and backer for the D..

If we do bring in 3-4-5 vets in to the mix....no, all won't be stars, just good players, we should improve in a hurry.

LB corp must stay healthy. Collins, Kirksey and Schobert are good enough ... Burgess might be good depth. We might need to add someone here too

I'm no scheme expert...but having essentially no Safety help sure seems like it would make their job much more difficult.

Good thread so far. I honestly think they if we get a QB, we will get better fast.
But what do I know?
Anyways, good read so far.

New guys always tear it down before putting their favorite ideas in place, So, here we go again.

I am sincerely hoping Dorsey doesn't but there is always that risk.

We need to let WR Louis walk...he's a [censored] poor WR, and made a ton of errors on special teams with lackluster effort at times...I'd keep Higgins as our bottom guy, and look to improve the top spots...Imagine a core of Jarvis Laundry, Josh Gordon, Corey Coleman, Christian Kirk, Higgins...I mean I'm sure Miami will try to retain Laundry, but thats a stacked set of weapons for Rosen (or whomever)

Do You think they could coach Louis into a better version of himself that you wouldn't want to let walk?
I think it's possible.

It will be interesting to see who we can add in FA and/or trade. Per Over The Cap $108.7M in effective cap space. That's more than 30 other teams with only the 49ers having more space than us. $108.7M is more than the Falcons, Cardinals, Jaguars, Patriots, Dolphins, Ravens, Giants, and Cowboys combined.

One of the problems with signing FA is the stigma of playing for the Browns. But if we target keys players, we should be able to outbid other teams for most of them.

I actually thought it was smart to target OL last year in FA (even though letting Mack and Schwartz go was dumb) .. we looked at the draft class's weakness and went after FA in that category

The thing that bothers me about the roster the most is when I look at it, I don't see a winless team there.

You see an inexperienced team. Inexperience, which has led to many individual mistakes at critical times in most games. It's not one small group of players either. It's all of them. They play pretty well for the most part while taking turns screwing the pooch at the worst times. Of course, there's also the well below average QB play which doesn't help a bit.

quote by 'peen above:



No kiddin'.

Had the team been properly coached, had the players been ready to compete, had there been a demand of excellence in training, preparation and execution, the Browns could have easily played .500 ball.

Of course the players love their buddy Hue.

The Browns will never see 5 wins with Hue Jackson as coach.

Same here...I actually see sound OL and DL, and low talent on impact positions, apart from MG, Gordon and Duke.

That should be enough to be competitive in most of the games and win a few.

What I worry the most is the lack of accountability and the losing team mentality... I think the regime made things a lot worst, to the point that they are defending a 1-31 project.

With this mentality I don't think we can win even with a probowl roster, not in a sport where in every play there is a good chance of a career ending injury.

Now, I can't even imagine what players think when a 1-31 coach is lecturing them...

Based on some normal growth and development - the roster is really not far away at all. It's not hard to expect significant improvement.

Simply add a veteran QB like Smith or Cousins - we're already potentially a 5 win team without changing anything else. You figure Kizer cost us the chance to win 3 or 4 games with ill timed turnovers or just rookie, 21 year old mistakes and development. Add a WR that catches the ball, you've got another major improvement. I don't think I am relying on josh Gordon, but if he stays clean and comes back and plays 16 games - that's a quantum improvement.

There is some excellent talent in the draft - including OT ... so getting a read on Joe Thomas and whether he thinks he's coming back and for 1, 2 or more years would be important. If Joe is coming back I'd really want to target skill players like Minkah, Rosen/Darnold, Barclay with the first 2 picks. . . if there is any doubt about JT, I'd really think it important to get his replacement. Not sexy but smart.

j/c

I am not interested in signing a free agent WR. I'd rather draft one. I think a lot of people forget you need a QB. If we had drafted Michael Thomas over Coleman, we'd be singing the similar tune that Thomas was a bust. We need that quarterback.

Fitzpatrick would be huge for this defense. I think over anything he is our no brainer draft pick. I think then you get Peppers into a hybrid role with Kindred as SS. I was disappointed in Taylor. He's one to me that says he'll try harder if we are winning or his job is on the line.

We aren't far off from being able to win.

Can't see Fitzpatrick + Kindred + Peppers playing, that would not make sense, except in special packages.

Kindred was actually a nice surprise and IMHO he is an above average safety.

I can only see us drafting Fitzpatrick if Williams gets fired (which I think he should) and we assume Peppers is a bust (which I think he is).

If GW stays, see us most probably improving on the CB position through draft and FA....

Same here. A whole lotta addition with minimal subtraction should do it. Easier said than done when the right QB still isn't here yet.

Mostly when you don't have the right coach that cannot find a workable QB in more than 10 players he had at his disposition...

We have lots of teams with good Qb's that don't go anywhere, and we have some teams with bad QB's that win championships.

We also have lots of teams with average QB's that are competitive and win some games in a season.

But most of all I think we have to get rid of the losing mentality, install accountability and don't accept cheesy excuses.

In a game where every play can mean a career ending injury, you cannot accept excuses on the lack of performance of players, coaches and teams.

This was the root cause of our problems, if you think it were just the 10 QB's we had, you are going to be up for a rude awakening....

Why not both? I think we can draft a quality WR after round one, but very few develop quickly. By adding a veteran WR, you get the benefit of his experience & skill immediately. You can let the drafted talent develop at a non-pressure pace, not to mention the leadership a solid veteran would provide to a group that desperately needs it.

One thing (amongst a couple others) that bothers me is that we consistently hear that our WR's run poor routes. Why? Are they not being coached up properly? Perhaps someone on here can fill us in on the degree of difficulty in coaching/training for this characteristic...

Every thread must turn into a "Fire Hue" thread.

I’m sorry to the Hue supporters on here but I agree, I think this roster was better then 0-16, I may be wrong, but felt a lot of other coaches could have done better, but then I was never a Hue fan anyway, didn’t really understand why he was such a “hot” cordinator when we brought him in. I’m assuming the “plan” was they wanted someone who would be good with a young drafted QB. That never materialized for probably many reasons. The man I hoped for was Matt Praticia from NE, but I’m a defensive guy at heart.

I’m not really asking him to be fired now, but would like answers to why we are keeping someone who hasn’t shown he can be successful, it’s just a hard pill to swallow for me. Even though we brought in a ton of players the last two years, and I’m not a Sashi supporter either, didn’t understand a lot of his moves and draft picks, but you can’t tell me this roster wasn’t good enough to pull out 3-4 wins this year. Playing Kizer was a huge mistake, and not relying on the run more was a mistake, actually I don’t really see where Hue has helped any of the QBs he’s had while he’s been here. We were all told this guy was good with the QBs, thought that’s why he was brought here. But if that’s where his reputation was built and he couldn’t show legitamite growth in any of the QBs he’s had, well that’s another hard pill to swallow.

the one guy from Detroit thought we had more talent than 20 teams or whatever.

I wouldn't go that far, but we also should have won a freaking game

Because we pick up the wrong type of Wr's... Wr don't run the routes on vacuum, most of the times they need to beat the CB on release, and guess what, very few of the Wr's we have possess that talent.

Been watching our Wr's and many times they run the route the defense want's, except for a few exceptions like Gordon...

I developed a very simple rule of thumb to assess the quality of WR's, and usually it works out great. The higher the WR cushion, the better he is. Same goes to accessing CB quality, the larger the cushion, the worst the CB.

There are good and effective WR's that are not great with press coverage, but most of the times it requires a great pass protection or QB mobility to let the route develop...

j/c

When I think of this year's FA period I also think about all those existing guys coming into their 3rd year. It sure seems as if we could use some vet help/depth, but when do some of those pending-3rd-yr-guys become that vet presence/depth/help? They won't be depth until/unless they are upgraded-upon...by others with youth or experience. They won't be vets until they are...whenever/if-ever that occurs.

I think the most-logical areas to target in FA are one each of the following: QB (long-term starter or bridge), WR, CB & S...maybe just CB or S rather than both. Maybe consider LB & RB if the right guy is out there. I'm not suggesting that we will sign 4-6 viable FAs...just that that's where I think we should focus.

If they think Wilson is a candidate to help at CB that would be huge and might impact the FA search at DB. I think McCourty should think about moving to FS. He's got more in him at CB, but maybe A LOT more in him at FS. Imagine signing Trumaine Johnson, McCourty moving to FS, and getting a stud CB in the draft? (1) pick and (1) FA. Instant upgrade...no?

Someone said it earlier or in another thread and I alluded to it in the OP...but...imagine Ogbah on a team like Jacksonville...or BBC on a team like NE...or even Higgins on a team like Pitt. All (3) guys are coming into their 3rd year and have a TON of playing experience. I don't think talent is as much an issue as inexperience...although the ailment and the symptoms are the same either way.

I realize that we/fans tend to over-value their own players...I get that...but we aren't talking about 5+ year guys suddenly getting "better" next year. I'm talking about promising young players...who should not have seen the field as starters until next year...coming into their 3rd year with a great deal of starting/playing experience. It's the upside of the uber-rebuild...now it just has to work.

I think the roster will look quite a bit different next year. I think Dorsey will use free agency and the draft to bring in a lot of players. I think guys like Louis, Taylor, Nacua, Coates, etc are going to be looking for employment.

I really, really hope that these bad WRs are all crap canned. Get rid of Coates, Louis, etc ... keep Gordon, give Coleman one more shot, sign/draft 2-3 impact WRs

I think Coleman main problem is that he is not good with press coverage, he was never good at it, he's was an explosive WR at college, but that does not work at NFL level.

You can go back at the draft profile analysis and see that he would hardly bee a good player. And for sure he was never a #1 WR in my eyes...

" Does his best work from outside the numbers, but lacks desired NFL size to play outside. Allows cornerbacks to leverage him against the sideline on deep throws. Takes longer than expected to gear down for comeback routes after hitting top speed. Ran limited number of simple routes. Hands are a concern. Fails to catch away from his body. Dropped 10 passes for a drop rate of 11.9 percent. Loses focus and concentration on routes that work towards the middle of the field or when he senses defenders are closing in. Had sports hernia surgery that forced him to miss his bowl game."

I think 2 years past, this is still a correct assessment on Coleman...

I wouldn’t mind seeing him lined up in the slot more, maybe put him there permanitly. I don’t envision him as a Welker, or Edelman type but think he could put pressure on the safeties from the slot. Open it up underneath for some other guys running crossing routes, TEs, Outside WOs. But that’s not really how the air coryell system works.

I think the roster looks a lot different Opening Day 2018...nature of the beast even for good teams.

Imagine this:

Upgrade WRs such that either Louis or Coates are WR #6. I could live with that as they both play STs and are big guys. Higgins probably becomes WR #4-#5. That means we've picked up (2) new guys.

Upgrade QBs such that Kizer sticks for now and we get (2) new guys.

I think Crow is gone...for better or worse. That's another (1) guy.

Upgrade the DBs such that BBC, Taylor & Wilson are CBs #3-#5 and MJ firmly at #6. There are a lot of guys on our DB roster that will be gone or churned...probably (3) guys easily.

That's (8) guys right there without looking at backup OL, LB & S fodder and Orchard and Edwards on the DL...could easily be (6) more guys on top of the (8).

No doubt there are a lot of areas on the roster that need upgraded.

Been doing some research on Dorsey and his tendencies to see how the draft might go. This is what I found out.

He values QB, DB, and edge rushers very high.

He really likes bigger press style corners.

He really likes to draft DBs

He likes to draft WRs but not early.

Same with RBs

Really likes OLineman and DLineman and will take them all through th draft.

What does this mean? Not sure. Maybe he won’t see value at WR or RB as high as we are drafting in the first. He also if I remember hasn’t taken either in the second round. At least not with KC.

We'd be somewhere if we'd taken this approach from the start. I didn't hate Couch but the lines would have been the place to start. Cleveland wasn't a new NFL city. We understood how teams were built and didn't need the glam positions first. We wouldn't have balked if we drafted in the trenches. Water under the bridge I suppose..

Interesting...appreciate the effort. That'll give us more to discuss during the deadzone leading up to the draft.

There’s a whole breakdown of positions he’s drafted and UNDFA he’s brought in, I’ll try and find a link

Links

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit...._dorseys_draft/

https://www.google.com/amp/chiefswire.us...tendencies/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/brownswire.us...hiefs-wire/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/articles.cl...s_gm_john_d.amp

Thanks for the info, dean!

Thanks dean fairchild although link number 2 won't open ...

thanks dean

Fixed the link....

Thanks just checked it out and I love the fact he favors WR and Safeties

Yep. And at the exact same time, if the players had actually executed the plays that were called, people would think Hue is a genius.

Or, If Hue had set his players up to succeed instead of fail we might have won a few games this year.

I agree Palmer got more out of an expansion club roster than Hue has with a lot more talent.

Players should be able to execute better if they were coached properly.

quote above by pit:



Wouldn't you?

As you've said many times yourself, too many uncalled for mistakes, miscues, lack of discipline.

The players love Hue. He's their buddy.

The Browns don't need a coach who's popular with the players.

Once they can Hue Jackson, they need a strong head coach who practices and demands hard-work and concentration.

And has the 100% support of the owner.

Yeah, when half of your roster is first and second year players... when a FO hands you a QB who couldn't hit the broad side of a barn, it's the coaches fault the team isn't winning.

Obviously the man they both reported to, the man who signs the checks, the man who knows more than we all do, the man who actually knows what goes on behind closed doors in Berea disagrees with you.

But you just keep chugging along anyway for all of the good it's doing you.

[sarcasm]Well of course they do.[/sarcasm]

Hey, if you want the closest thing to that perfect HC you describe, it must be Bill Belichick or bust for you. Every HC in this league makes mistakes. They only seem to be important if the team loses.

That or you need players with the ability to execute. Just remember what Dorsey had to say about this roster and the talent on this team. Of course I'm sure you think you know more than Dorsey as well.

Did you forget that we drafted four WR's from the same weak WR class? That Coleman was supposed to be the cream and the rest were a bunch of mid round picks?

Yeah, they're so good Hue is the problem.. lmao

by pit above:



We're talking a lot more than "mistakes".

Right?

You do realize that, right?

That the Browns are a very undisciplined team?

The just went 1-31.

That's more than a few mistakes.

Pit, did you even stop a little bit to check the integrity of your points...

I will not say the obvious one, which is the it was Hue that played Kizer. He had several option and kept playing him,and demanded he to throw the ball 2/3 attempts...

Lets go back to the moment when Hue was hired. Hue was a reputable OC, and Browns job at that time was already one of the worst jobs in the NFL.

Now, we were all sold, that Hue was a great coach that chose to embrace Sashi project. Actually he was the credible part of the project, and came here with the fame of being a QB whisperer...

So, do you actually believe that Hue, who had the bargaining power, accepted the Browns Job with blind faith in Sashi?


That any coach would gladly surrender the roster and QB choice power to management if they could retain it...

It would only take Hue to say something like: I will take the job only if I can chose my QB and have a say on the roster...

The story that Hue had no say on the players we drafted, signed or cut, is complete fantasy.

There is no way the Browns were in a position to bargain with a Coach with Hue's market at that time.

we also could say that someone with integrity, if faced with a challenge and goals that cannot keep, would just quit.

Hue didn't quit, did he? Even in fantasy land he willing accepted the conditions, so why are you making excuses for him?

I do think WSU wants this thread to be about "the roster" and not another Hue thread.

I apologize for my role in this. I should have ignored peen's comment.

Maybe we can get back to the roster?

Wow, I didn’t mean to start an argument, my point wasn’t that all of the issues were Hues fault, just that he wasn’t completely blameless. I know the players didn’t execute well enough. I saw that. But some execution problems should have been able to be fixed as the season went on, week 17 I was still seeing the same execution problems. Now to me the coaches have to shoulder some of that blame, maybe not all of it but definitely some.

Still a long time till next season, so why hurry up...

And I don't think any Browns discussion will leave Hue out of it...not until some sense is made and he his fired.

Hey, vers....


Did you ever get a chance to look at the two QBs I mentioned a couple days ago? Mike white, from western Kentucky, and Drew Lock of Missouri? White is a senior and Lock a junior who looks like he’s returning to school.

I haven't. Thanks for the reminder.

I know neither will be first rounders but I liked what I saw to an extent, and waiting on a second or third rounder would probably put browns fans up in mutinany. I was only asking for my own knowledge.

j/c

I copied the link from the official Browns website. I sorted by Experience. It makes for a crazy visual without even looking at the names:

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/roster.html

Peak at the number of players heading into their 2nd or 3rd year...astounding. I thought Jamar Taylor was much younger...yikes. There are (9) guys heading onto year (2) that we did not draft.

Your brilliant HC decided to start that kid week one and ran the veteran on the squad off the roster. Try as you might you are never going to pin choosing who starts on Sashi.

Our expansion roster was full of players that weren't even drafted and outcasts from other teams. We had turn-styles at every position on the o-line without any Pro-Bowl Guards or Tackles.

This league is also set up for parity a lot more then it was back then as well. But our HC, the one you call a liar, somehow managed to break that parity two years running.

Well I was big on Patrick Mahomes and Hunt , so maybe I will be a Dorsey Fan .

And what's most amazing is that the complete rebuild of DL, and the OL, and the replacement of a HOFER LT mid season, is completely left out of the arguments....

Hey, maybe Hue had a say on choosing lineman but not on what QB to start or the choice of the 3rd QB on the team and practice squad...

The levels of fantasy are amazing in some people...

Interesting.

I think it will be crazy next year when we have so many guys w/expiring rookie contracts.

As much as I don’t like Hue, never did, I can’t believe Sashi forced him to play Kizer, that’s usually a coaches decision. I think Hue player who he THOUGHT gave him the best chance to win. I think he probably thought he could get more from him then he did. I don’t agree with his decision to start him right away like that but I do believe that it was his decision.

j/c

How awesome is it that Drango played so well...again...this year. Last year as a rookie he played "out-of-position" (from college anyway) and filled in quite nicely...and that was with Erving and basically eotab at his right hand (C). Then he gets thrust into JT's shoes and played quite well again...in just his 2nd year. Impressive. I wonder if he will give Coleman a run for the starting RT job after what he showed at LT? Does anyone remember if Drango was the LT in practice on Joe's days off?

FWIW: On another site I regularly read how surprised some guys were at the improvement showed by Rod Johnson throughout camp before he got hurt. They all acknowledged that he has/had a long way to go but essentially stated that he was quite ahead of where they thought he could be/get in such a short time.

Three new starters on the OL...a returning starter at LG who missed much of the prior year with injury...and a 5th Rd, 2nd year guy steps in at LT for a living legend and plays well. Maybe Wylie does know what he's doing?

Dean, the whole argument that Hue had no saying on the QB and roster is just fantasy of some..

Hue held all the bargaining chips when he signed for the Browns, he could have made any reasonable requests,and some unreasonable ones, he was that fundamental for the credibility of the project.

I think Erving and Johnson filled in for Joe during camp.

I’m saying it was his decision.

I'll do my part and not respond to the silliness above.

I was talking about this with a friend the other evening. Something that gets over-looked (so it seems) when discussing past GMs (who didn't re-sign coveted guys for whatever reason) is that some of those guys probably should have been re-signed long before they became free agents and were up against a time deadline. Easier said than done...I know...but a legit point nonetheless.

We got to that topic after talking about how much salary cap we have to burn. It's not as giant as we think if we sign a big name QB and re-up (early) some of the young, coveted talent. There is some work to be done here for sure.

LOL

Anyway, what areas of the roster do you think there could be the most change?

I think the QB room is going to look very different. The WRs and secondary will certainly be different. Crow will probably be gone.

The OL should remain fairly static. The linebackers probably won't change much. The DL shouldn't change much. Not sure about the TEs. We could use one dependable guy. Maybe a FA vet. Then again, maybe not. LOL

As long as Dorsey doesn't go too crazy with cap money, we should be okay.

A lot of those guys will be RFA's and ERFA's some will be replaced by this year's draft class.

We probably want to get Duke locked-up before his contract is up. I wouldn't wait too long. He's become very valuable.

He took some issues with Hue's statements about the team, so that might not be doable.

Duke wants to retire as a Brown.

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-brow...owns--112788765

I actually think it's going to be quite a balancing act. I think most would agree that we need to put talent around the rookie QB that we'll draft. So to me I think there will be a lot invested at the WR position. Hopefully a quality FA signing as a security blanket for a rookie QB along with one high draft pick at the position.



Hopefully we'll have an at least average FA signing at QB along with Rosen as our #1 pick in the QB room. I think they should keep Kizer and cut Hogan and Kessler loose. For all of the blather spewed on here, staring either of those two instead of Kizer would have been an even bigger disaster and there's no doubt in my mind that of the three, Kizer certainly has the most upside and it's not even close.

I agree with you about Crow and I can understand that. I mean I like Crow but I don't consider him an elite RB. From a dollars and cents standpoint, you could probably draft a third round RB and get equal production for a much better price than signing Crow to a veteran contract.



I agree with that for the most part. I still have grave concerns about Shon Coleman. Maybe I'm just missing what a lot of people claim to be seeing. But he's had either 14 or 15 called penalties this season and while some wish to dismiss that because he's young, I see that as a pretty big issue. With that concern in mind and knowing Joe Thomas is closing in on the end of his career, I certainly wouldn't complain about an investment at the OT position.

I'm certainly hoping we'll see turnover in the secondary. That's where the balancing act I mentioned earlier comes into play. We need a huge influx of talent in our secondary. Band aids aren't going to do it. I don't see a true cover CB on this roster. I like BBC but he's no more than depth at the CB at best. At the very least we need to sign one FA CB and draft another one high in the draft. Maybe in that scenario McCourty could move to FS.

But I don't see any way in the world you could pass on a talent like Minkah Fitzpatrick if he's sitting there at #4.

In order of need I would place the list like this.

QB, CB, FS, WR

I would certainly put QB way above the rest. After that, I believe you have to look at BPA in the other positions. That's why I would value Minkah Fitzpatrick at #4 over the CB position at #4.

Second tier needs.

RB, OT

He fell in the draft and I felt that he was a steal for us. IIRC, it was projected that he would be the eventual replacement for JT. And yes, Wylie seems to be doing a very effective job with the Oline.

We best take a qb at 1 ... that regardless of what we do in FA ... short of signing Cousins ... the rest is contingent upon what we do in FA ...

at 4 take Fitz ... hes possibly the best BPA but he’s definetly a STUD at a position that takes a HUGE STEP in making our D DOMINANT!!! ... i don’t see how we can pass on that opportunity ...

After that in no particular order ... CB, CB, WR is the A list ... WR, RB, MLBer, OL on the B list....

And one thing I think we have to get is a “POSSESION WR” like an Adam Thielen type guy ... we really need someone with good hands, that runs good routes and can be counted on for the 3rd down catch ala Brian Brennan ,,,,

At this point I think it'll be:

1. Whatever QB Dorsey wants.
2. Fitz or Barkley.

we have 8 players with more than 5 years experience.

we have 3 players that have more than 7 years experience and one of them is a punter.

We have 51 players with 3 years or less experience in the NFL.

If we don't churn the roster in the off-season, we should see a lot of growth in players next year and most won't even be in their prime.

They truly built this team through the draft.

Nice post, Pit! I think you brought up a good point about the tackle position that I didn't really consider.

I agree w/just about everything you said. Hard to believe, huh? LOL

I want Rosen and the Fitz. That would be freaking huge for this franchise. Combine them w/Myles and you have real building blocks for the franchise.

I also think we need a craft route runner at WR. Jarvis Landry would be huge, but even someone like Danny Amendola would be helpful.

I wanted Amendola last time he was on the market. It didn't go over well on the board. lol He has sure hands and would be very helpful converting on 3rd downs.

I didn't say anything about firing Hue did I?


The answer is no.


I can't help it Hue hasn't won any games except for a fluke blocked kick.

I have to live with Hue as coach. You have to live with he hasn't coached us to a win unless you think he coached us in to a blocked kick victory.


I get it! Pun intended. Hue is back next year. It's going to be great. Go Browns.

Judging by what Dorsey has done in the past, I don’t see us taking Barkley. Fitzpatrick could be an option though, he likes DBs. As for the WRs he’s taken he tends to lean towers more explosive type of players, when the combine gets here watch the verticals.

I'm going to try to do this two ways

I'm going to start with what I think are the top 10 positions by importance to any NFL team starting from scratch.

1) QB
2) Pass Rusher
3) Left Tackle
4) Left Corner
5) Wide Receiver
6) Right Corner
7) Free Safety
8) 2nd Pass Rusher
9) Main DT
10) 2nd Pass catching target

These are the basic building blocks that in my opinion you build a team on. I know people can easily argue with this list, especially the bottom of it, and there are several ways to skin a cat, but it's my post so I'm going with the way I would build it.

This is where you want a majority of your young talent.

1) QB - Obviously our biggest need. With Kizer an unknown at this point, we need a QB of both the now and the future. I am a big fan of signing a vet and drafting a QB.

2) Pass Rusher- We are set here with Myles Garrett

3) Left Tackle- You would think we would be set here, but JT may be retired by the time we really need him. I really wish I knew how well Roderick Johnson looked to coaches before he got hurt. We may need a JT replacement, we may just need a swing tackle. Despite how well Drango did, he is not an LT.

4) Left Corner - McCourty deserves a medal for how well he did at the spot but he is on the wrong side of 30 and should be playing on the right.

5) Wide Receiver - Do we trust Gordon to stay out of trouble? Coleman to stay healthy and improve? We just need a ton of help here, starters and depth.

6) Right Corner - Even if we move McCourty here we need one for the future. Taylor and BBC are both nickel corners at best

7) Free Safety - A huge need here. And before some numb-skull mentions it, a free safety that is a big hitter is not our most important need. A FS with range is the most important need. If he isn't a huge hitter, but can police the field he'll make our corners look much much better. Why so many people like SS types as FS's and FS types as SS's is beyond me.

8) 2nd Pass rusher - If Ogbah hasn't hit his ceiling, or Nassib for that matter, I think we're okay. When our DB's aren't giving 50 yard cushions, we'll start to get sacks.

9) Main DT - We have Shelton here. We also have a lot of young DT's with promise. I think we are okay this year. If we get another, that's great too!

10) 2nd Pass catching target - For some teams this is the TE position and it may be the same for us. We have two young TE's and TE's don't really start to get it until their 2nd or 3rd year. Hopefully, we'll be going after multiple WR's and we'll improve here one way or another.


Now the team specific needs...

1) QB - Notice how it's at the top of both lists? It's that important to figure it out.

2) FS - A FS with range will suddenly make our corners look that much better. It is one of those building block positions, so hopefully in the draft or a young FA if we go the FA route.

3) WR - We do not need a speedster. We have those. We need a big physical pass catching machine. Hue has tons of vertical routes so the speedster is important as well, but those speedsters will only get open when there is a credible safety valve for the QB.

4) Left Corner - I like big press corners and I believe all of the decision makers for the Browns do too, so this should be accomplished next year.

5) WR - Just see #3, one of these WR's could be and probably will be a FA.

6) RB - I like Barkley at #4. I think he is very special. Unlike most, I think he is as special as Zeke was coming out. All that said, RB is so deep in this draft it is nuts. There will be a UDFA RB in this draft that will most likely make a run at rookie of the year. It's just that good. We'll get a RB somewhere in this draft and maybe two because it is so deep.

Notice how every position on my 2nd list is also on my first list except for RB? If I would have did a top 11 instead of a top 10, RB would have probably been the next one, but RB's are so easy to get. My 2nd list is 6 picks long which means that everything on that list could be addressed by the 3rd round of the draft. We are also going to have lower picks and free agents, so everything on the first list should be addressed as well.

It's hunting season and with our picks and cap space, we are loaded for bear. Let's just hope beyond hope that our aim isn't off this time. If we figure QB out, the rest is gravy.

Awesome post. I like this kind of posting.

I am a little buzzed and will wait until tomorrow to address your points. But man, that is a really good post. Kudos!!!!

FA target 1 and 1b.

Top CB and Landry.

QB and Fitz.

It blows my mind how so many CAN'T see how damn close we are to exploding onto the scene.

We're FINALLY going to have a REAL QB.

Hell, a real QB would've gotten us 6 wins in 2017.

I'm STOKED!

Hearing this conversation reminds me of this article:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...ack-to-returner

Someone posted an article like that last year and it might be that one. That gave me the idea. His list seems fairly close to mine.

j/c

Am I the only guy not panicked about replacing Joe Thomas after watching Drango this year? In just his 2nd year in the league?

I'm not suggesting that Drango=Thomas...but Drango played quite well and he's young, young young. He just might improve upon what I would call no-worse-than-average. They are both listed as 6'6" and Drango is 3 pounds heavier at 315. Drango doesn't really look like a LT...but I thought he played like one. He's one of the many guys entering his 3rd year and with a ton of playing & starting experience.

Drango was shockingly outstanding WSU but he isn't agile enough to be a full time LT. The Von Miller's of the world will eat him alive. He could play on the right but would be a better guard.

Drango played very well, but we also used tight ends to help him out. I think he could be a starting caliber guard or a great utility linemen.

I agree w/both Dep and CHS. I am not knocking Drango. In fact, he played leaps and bounds better than I thought he would.

I would prefer him at guard or as our 6th man [considering we have two good guards in place] because I think his lateral movement isn't his strong suit and that sometimes rears it's ugly head against the quicker pass rushers.

But again.........the dude was very impressive filling in for Joe.

I see what you, CHS & Vers said about Drango and I agree. I'm just on this 3rd-yr-in-the-league thing right now and he's got a chance to improve on an already-good skillset given that he's so young and played so many meaningful snaps already.

I think it's telling when we think back about his play that our only real complaint is that he struggled against the premier pass-rushers in the league and we used a TE to chip on occasion. Pretty darn good for a 5th Rd guy in his 2nd yr. Just the mental fortitude to step in for a guy like Joe Thomas says a lot. I think he got better as the season moved along as well...primarily because I didn't notice him very much...the hallmark of a good OL.

I think Joe returns and my Drango-excitement becomes moot (thanks Pit) for now but I can't help but think what Drango could be with an off-season dedicated to improving his play - and his body - as a Tackle. If I were Coleman I'd be awfully motivated to get in the best shape I possibly could going into TC.

Need to take a page out of someones play book " did you's guys watch the Game " LOL ....

Durango surprised a lot of us with his except-able play at LT .. One of my pet peeve's with Hue is that he left Durango hanging by NOT giving him a TE to help in critical downs .. Fresh in my mind are several times when we where backed up near our own End Zone ; Hue would call a pass play and leave Durango on an Island out there ..Kiser would get squashed ..

I don't see Joe Coming back this year...he already did his part for king and country.

I think he will be back depending on how well he recovers from injury. The only thing we know for sure that Joe has actually said is that he wanted continuity. He's seen coaches come and go through the revolving door ever since he's been a Brown. By keeping Hue, no matter what people say, at least Joe knows that there is some stability and continuity to come back to. And it sure seems like that's what he was looking for.

I think he’s coming back ...

Hes a loyal fella .. hewants to help his buddy Hue out ... i mean that .. its not a joke ... I seriously think he will end up coming back to help out his buddy Hue ...

I agree.

I think he would have hung them up had we fired Hue. He is not a fan of blowing things up.

LOL.......that poor guy. Think about that for a minute. He detests blowing things up and he has spent his entire career w/the Browns. That's cruel, man! Very, very cruel.

I agree as well. I think that the odds go up if we add a veteran QB and a couple of other veteran pieces as well.

I think a guy with his legacy would want to leave the game at his choice and after the game clock went to 00:00 for his last time...not holding his arm wondering if that is it.

He'll be back. He's already said we're on the cusp of being better than good.

He also knows we're finally going to have a REAL QB.

JT isn't going anywhere but LT for the Cleveland Browns ...

sound logic for sure...an he just might come back...if not def. an O-line coach maybe?

We hear quite a bit that our DL is a strength of the team...we hear that about the OL as well. However, the difference in the number of experienced players between the two units is amazing.

I'm going to start with the DTs for the moment. It seems as if we have a lot of guys at the DT position: Coley, Meder, Shelton, Ogunjobi & Brantley. (McGill was on the 53 for much of the season, but is not on the roster today.)

The senior citizens of that group just wrapped up year #3 - Meder & Shelton. Meder was out for most of the year and Shelton was very disappointing to me. I was really hoping to see that 3rd year jump from Shelton. The Steelers went to their 3rd C near the goal line in week #17 and Shelton got blown sideways on the very next play for a TD. I wonder if he's best suited as a NT in a 3-4? Many of you guys are way more competent than me in discussing such an idea.

The other three guys just finished their rookie seasons: Coley, Ogunjobi & Brantley. Coley was a UDFA and played very well. Ogunjobi seemed more noticeable as the season went along and Brantly also more towards the end of the year. I like those three guys. There isn't a true vet to be seen in that group. I look at those three rookies and wonder how they would look if they had a good vet on either side of them...either side. They played a lot of meaningful snaps as rookies.

The DEs have a similar look to them. The only real vet is that Edwards guy who came in at the same time as Dorsey. He looked ok...in his whopping 4th year in the league. What would MG, Ogbah and even Nassib look like with a good, experienced vet beside them? Orchard just wrapped up his 3rd year and was JAG.

So...two guys are entering their 3rd year (Ogbah & Nassib)...two guys just finished an uninspiring 3rd year (Shelton & Orchard) one guy (Meder) was hurt for most of his 3rd year...and three guys just wrapped up their rookie seasons. The lack of experience in that unit is downright unbelievable...unlike the OL - a group with some young vets that I like through a good, solid 8 guys - the DL is another story...yet still a decent group.

Orchard and Edwards are JAGs and very replaceable. I'd look for a guy like Carl Lawson to replace the Edwards and Orchard types - great pickup in the 4th Rd for the Kittens - and look for a vet to help in the pass rush. I'm done with Shelton...and Meder is that guy you just have to keep on a team like this right now. I'd like to see Shelton traded and a vet FA brought in to provide some stability. If that vet is a penetrating DT and is out there to be had, I'd go after him like I would any other position of need. I really think the three yutes at DT would benefit greatly from an experienced DT in the mix.

It's a group I like and think could really be something with another year under their belts and a few new faces to upgrade some JAGs. I'd be surprised if we spend one of our first 5-6 picks here...unless some guy like Wilkins slips through the cracks - which isn't going to happen. I'd be ok going after Wilkins...but a crazy-young unit only gets younger (albeit better) with a rook.

I don't think there is an order to how a team gets built through the draft.

You have to draft the best player available (and you consider players on your own team) and build from them.

Use FA sparingly to address high priority team needs.

At the risk of appearing to be a shameless bump of one's own thread:

I'm seeing some posts recently that the next step for the new 3 Amigos is to bring in some veteran talent to help the yutes. I certainly don't disagree, but which veterans and/or which positions?

QB is easy...identifying which QB is not.

Where do you see the roster being in need of some vet presence?

I'm more interested in playmakers at this point...but some vets are certainly in order. Where and who is the tough question.

I don't know Who, but I'd like to see us fill holes at WR, CB, LB, QB.

The only QB I'm interested in, really, is Alex Smith, I think. I've never thought very highly of Cousins, despite his rise in popularity here over this past season, and I cannot think of any others worth salt that will be available.

For the other positions listed, just bring in competent players. I'd settle for "NFL Average" in terms of quality.... and then draft highly at those same positions.

Just a thought based on that post...Several years ago now, Pettine brought in Jim Leonhard to play safety. Talent wise, he didn't improve the defensive backfield, but his knowledge and experience did. He made everyone around him better. He was virtually a coach on the field.

(It says a lot that he is now a highly regarded DC for Wisconsin.)

I've touched on this before but I'll say a little about it again.

Firstly, the "who" is almost impossible to say. There's a large FA list at this point in the year but a lot of the better players on that list will be re-signed and in some cases have the franchise or RFA tag placed on them. That will make the list coming out when the FA signing period opens smaller and less talented than it appears now. Who's left on that list is anybodies guess at this point.

The where is never written in stone but it sometimes comes down to common sense dollars and cents. In our case the salary cap isn't a restriction to signing talent at any position. Yet I think this FO is football savvy enough to understand the ramifications of simply throwing money at players hoping something sticks.

Certain positions in the NFL are far more costly than others. Signing them to a FA contract is a very expensive proposition if you feel you can actually address the position in the draft. Positions like LT, QB, CB and pass rusher all command a very high salary in the FA market. I mean if you were reading the board when the Jets signed Buster Skrine, people couldn't fathom what he was being paid.

Now when you're in a position like we are, you can't address all of our needs in the draft in the secondary, at WR, QB, RB and other basic holes in the draft. So I won't be a bit surprised if we sign at least a couple of players at high dollar contracts at either FS/CB and probably QB on the FA market.

But let's look at two positions that make a ton of sense to fill via FA. WR and RB. With this years heavily talented crop of RB's in the draft, this may not be the year that this applies, but you can sign a pretty damned good RB on the FA market for a reasonable price. So in a weak RB class, why would you waste a valuable resource on a position you can get a bargain at on the FA market?

The same applies for a quality possession WR. I'm not talking about your #1 WR, but a guy you can count on with good hands for a go to guy for your QB. Think Joe Jurevicius from our past. Guys like Julian Edelman and Wes Welker. These are the type of WR's that keep drives alive that in the end make a big difference in the W/L column.

Choosing to sign players that are at bargain positions on the FA market and drafting positions that command a huge salary on the FA market is a good way to help control your salary cap and still address many positions in a smart way.

My line of thought is basically the same. I'd add a situational pass-rush vet as well.

I think the only way to get A Smith here is to promise we won't take a QB in the 1st Rd for 2018. jmo

I’m not sure we make a huge splash in free agency, except maybe at QB, could see some guys being looked at there. I like Alex Smith a lot, wonder how he’ll fit in Hues offense, Smith has always played in west coast and gets rid of the ball quickly, not sure it’s a good match for the coryell style with the reads taking a bit longer sometimes.

I think we’ll bring in some vets at key positions where we are currently very young, probably look at both Green Bay’s and Kansas cities roster and free agents GMs like those guys they’re familiar with.

Let's substitute names for "starter" or "depth"...in somewhat of a make-believe world where the guy(s) exists and is available.

Starters: QB, CB/FS, slot WR, maybe RB

Vet depth (if not addressed as "starter"): WR, RB, CB, FS, DE, LB

(1) vet WR and (1) vet DB would help immensely.

As of now, the Browns have signed 15 players to futures deals including:

WR C.J. Board
LB Austin Calitro
DB Trevon Hartfield
WR Bug Howard
RB Josh Rounds
OL Victor Salako
DB B.W. Webb
WR Kasen Williams
DL Collin Bevins
RB Kelvin Taylor
ILB Max Bullough
DL Ricky Ali’ifua
OL Joseph Cheek
DL Jeremy Faulk
DB Corey White

I really want to answer your question because this has been a true football thread [for the most part] and not the typical "Hue is responsible for global warming" thread that almost every other thread has become.

I have a hard time answering because like Pit said, I'm not sure who will be available. I'll try the position thing:

QB: I think we should bring a vet in. Not sure if it will be a big splash guy like Smith/Cousins or someone like Matt Moore/Drew Stanton. This will be interesting to watch as it unfolds.

RB: I'm guessing we draft a RB rather than go the FA route.

WR: I think this is a perfect unit to bring in an established vet. A talent like Landry would be huge. I would also like a smart, route runner who reads zone coverages very well. Maybe someone like Danny Amendola.

TE: I haven't decided. We have two talented guys, but they are so young, inexperienced, and inconsistent.

OL: I think we are good at guard and probably center. I miss Greco's versatility. The tackle situation is interesting. Do we bring in a vet to challenge Coleman? Or do we draft a guy due to JT's age?

DT: I think we could perhaps upgrade at this position. Someone who might not be a star, but is hard-working, comes from a winning team, and will be part of the rotation.

Edge: We have two good ones, but one more might not hurt. Maybe a Clayborne? Not sure about that.

LBers: I would like to bring in a couple, but mostly for Special Teams and situational instances.

CB: I think we should bring a very good vet or two and draft a 2-3 corners.

SS: We will probably not do much here as we have Kindred and Peppers, but neither are good in coverage. That puts a lot of pressure on your LBers and even your FS.

FS: We need one in the biggest way. Not sure if there are any good ones available in FA, but we need to make a big investment.

P: He's good.

K: For competition purposes.

I do think it is extremely important to bring in some guys who are true pros and have experienced winning. We gotta change the mind-set from all this losing. Losing so often is so hard to overcome.

I've been thinking, which is never good

Drango did better than I thought he would at LT. Assuming Joe comes back, what about a competition at RT between Drango and Coleman?

I agree that Drango did much better than expected, so yeah, there could be a competition. I see Drango as a guard, but like you said, he played pretty good at LT.

For the record, I don't think Hue is responsible for global warming yet, but once he jumps in the lake, all that hot air is gonna cause plenty of evaporation.

Clever !

Uh, which is true, because if it wasn't the lake wouldn't have been iced over at the end of the season and he could have jumped in!


[I now return you to your regularly scheduled football discussion]

The Cleveland Browns signed TE Gavin Escobar to the reserve/futures list.


Escobar is a 6-5, 250-pound San Diego State product. He was originally selected by the Dallas Cowboys in the second round (47th overall) of the 2013 NFL Draft. Officially entering his fifth NFL season in 2018, he’s been active with the Cowboys (2013-16) and the Baltimore Ravens (2017). For his career, Escobar has appeared in 64 games (seven starts) and has recorded 30 receptions for 333 yards with eight touchdowns. He’s a native on New York, N.Y.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...61-af45eb0ddc2d

I remember him being really popular back as a draft prospect. I'd forgotten he was even drafted that high. I wonder where it's gone so wrong for him.

Internet suggests he was jammed behind Jason Witten and Dallas never used two TE sets, but he also struggled to find a place with KC this season, even as depth.

Solid add. Clearly Dorsey believes in him, and I'm never against low risk/high reward additions.

Agreed, this definitely has low-risk factor to it.

Escobar..... hmmmmmm.....

That name seems to ring a bell.

Escobedo and Miranda

Pretty nice addition this kid was rated really high coming into the draft ...

j/c...

Dorsey brought in Escobar when he was the GM in KC last year. Escobar got cut when the final 53 man roster was announced and after Dorsey was no longer the GM.

Dorsey certainly sees something in Escobar to sign him for a second time.

Quite a few people really liked Escobar in the draft. He had some impressive numbers. He has been a real disappointment in the NFL, but it can't hurt to take a look.

Here is a scouting report that was written the year he was eligible for the draft.

Numbers are interesting. Can we figure out where and how to use him. He seems to have something that has Dorsey's attention.

Welcome aboard!

escobar was a favorite in the draft ... supposed to be a great TE prospect

doesn't hurt

The Cleveland Browns signed six players to the reserve/futures list:

Pos. Name

DL Ricky Ali'ifua

LB Max Bullough

OL Joseph Cheek

DL Jeremy Faulk

RB Kelvin Taylor

DB Corey White

Ali'ifua, 6-2, 300 pounds, was originally signed by the Kansas City Chiefs as an undrafted free agent in 2017. A first-year player, he spent the offseason and training camp with the Chiefs before being waived during final roster cuts. A four-year letterman at Utah State, Ali'ifua appeared in 51 games, accruing 99 tackles, eight sacks, five pass breakups and two forced fumbles. He hails from San Leanro, Calif.

Bullough, a 6-3, 258-pound Michigan State product, will officially enter his fourth NFL season in 2018. An undrafted free agent signing by Houston Texans in 2014, he’s played 30 games (four starts), amassing 35 tackles and three tackles for loss. He also appeared in the Texans’ 2015 AFC Wild Card matchup against the Chiefs. Bullough is from Traverse City, Mich.

Cheek, 6-6, 300 pounds, is a first-year player out of Texas A&M. He was originally signed by the New Orleans Saints as an undrafted free agent in 2016. Since then, he’s spent time with the Chiefs and Texans, appearing on both their practice squads. Cheek is a native of Seguin, Texas.

Faulk, 6-1, 305 pounds, is entering his first NFL season after being originally signed by the New York Jets as an undrafted free agent in 2017. He spent training camp with the Jets before being waived during finals roster cuts. A former NJCAA Defensive Player of the Year (2015), Faulk played collegiately at Garden City Community College. He’s a native of Hastings, Fla.

Taylor is a 5-10, 197-pound first-year player out of Florida. He was originally selected by the San Francisco 49ers in the sixth round (211th overall) of the 2016 NFL Draft. He spent time on the practice squads of San Francisco and the Seattle Seahawks in 2016. He also spent parts of the 2017 offseason with the Chiefs and the Atlanta Falcons. His father, Fred, played 13 seasons in the NFL with the Jacksonville Jaguars (1998-08) and the New England Patriots (2009-10). Taylor is a native of Pahokee, Fla.
White, 5-11, 205 pounds, has seen action in 66 games (24 starts) over five NFL seasons. Originally a fifth-round (162nd overall) selection by the Saints in the 2012 NFL Draft, he’s compiled 151 tackles, 22 passes defensed, six interceptions, two forced fumbles and two fumble recoveries. He’s also started both career postseason contests he’s appeared in, tallying eight tackles. The Samford product has been active with the Buffalo Bills (2016), Arizona Cardinals (2015), Dallas Cowboys (2015) and Saints (2012-14). White is from Dunwoody, Ga.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...95-882f9ae7a673

Kelvin Taylor is Fred Taylor's son.

Yes! Max Bullough! I really wanted him coming out. I just hope this hull at LB spot doesn't stop us from drafting Shaquem Griffin. He's going to be a pro bowler as a special teams player and will be a good situational defensive player.

j/c:


https://twitter.com/BR_DougFarrar/status/953745521293733888

#TheyDidn'tGetRealPlayers

Certainly not enough of them.

Definitely more than zero wins enough though, right?

We're severely lacking in the secondary, which un-does a lot of the good we've done in building the front 7.

We have a bunch of young talent on our line and in the LB corps. Our lack of talent in our secondary shoots us in the foot (the deployment of said talent also does us no favors).

We blitzed more than anyone and got less pressure than anyone. It's almost like. . . they knew the blitzes were coming.

You do realize that even Dorsey sees the problem. Just read my sig. Maybe you should email him your complaints?

We knew the secondary was going to be really bad, and we managed to make it even worse by getting rid of Haden (he wouldn't have been a savior, but there's just that much less talent back there, and a young'in making young'in mistakes and being inconsistent in his place). We drafted a guy high that people weren't sure he'd be able to step into the FS role (and that's putting it lightly), and we lost our other draft pick to a brutal knee injury. McCourty was good, BBC was fairly good, but Jamar Taylor had a down year.

.... Just for [censored] and giggles ....

. " You do realize that even Dorsey sees the problem "

.... You do realize the guy before , and the one before , and the one before and so on , saw the problems too ?? lol

Is this your signature:



http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...eal-players-jab

He played for the Gators like his father. He's good, but he isn't as good as his dad was. He might make the team, but I wouldn't pass on Barkley of Michel because we have him.


He had a nice career at Florida, but I remember him not finishing runs. At some point you need to quit looking for another cutback and just get the last 2 yards.



He does, or did work hard, so who knows, maybe we got something, but I suspect he is a #2 back at best, and nothing wrong with that. He's not going to kill you if you have to give him extended playing time.

I just remember him getting crushed on the sideline by the coach who hugged the shark while naked.

I agree. I brought it up at one point this season, but i don't see Drango at a RT. Joe playing RT wouldn't have produced a HOF career IMO.


To me, the RT needs to be a bulldozer type. I am looking for a big SOB at that position.


You might have to chip a TE or bigger back on passing plays to allow the big guy to center up on a outside rush, but to me, the positional requirements for the two positions are way different.


Orlando Brown Jr. looks like my kind of RT.

LOL....I guess I am not sure what you are talking about.

For the second part Google "jim mcelwain shark"

Ok.....Jim isn't there anymore, and for good reason.


I remember Fred even complained.

didn't want to start a new thread for this just yet.

5 potential cap cuts that might happen.

5) Jeremy Maclin, WR, Ravens
4) Joe Haden, CB, Steelers
3) Dre Kirkpatrick, WR, Bengals
2) Danny Woodhead, WR, Ravens
1) Brandon LaFell, WR, Bengals

https://www.chatsports.com/nfl/a/here-are-5-potential-afc-north-salary-cap-cuts-37068

I wouldn't mind taking the first four. and yes that means bringing back Joe Haden if he would to return.

Report: Browns held tryout with LB Nick Moody


Cleveland continues to look at candidates for reserve/future contracts.
By Chris Pokorny@DawgsByNature Jan 20, 2018, 5:06pm EST

https://www.dawgsbynature.com/2018/1/20/16913750/report-browns-held-tryout-with-lb-nick-moody

According to Howard Balzer, the Cleveland Browns held a tryout on Friday with linebacker Nick Moody.

Moody was a 6th round pick by the San Francisco 49ers in 2013. He spent two years with the club, and then spent some time with the Seattle Seahawks and Washington Redskins in 2015 and 2016. The most action he saw in a season came in 2014, when he made 2 starts and registered 21 tackles on the year.

All indications are that Moody was out of football for all of 2017. If the Browns end up signing him, it would to a reserve/future contract. As of Saturday, no deal was reported.

Dre is a CB
Woodhead is a RB

Well when you say what you mean and it doesn't sell, you have to do the PC thing. I mean it's a corporation. So no matter how you slice it, he knows we need more talent to win. lmao

Yep, he realized that agreeing with Hue was hazardous to his job security. I think he realized the talent he needs to win is at the HC spot.

'Peen, are you sure he is big enough? LOL

We have tackle problems now, mores if JT hangs it up. But we need a big man there, and I hope to see the kind of guy you expect.

But he has to have some decent feet and mobility too.Brown might be able to do it.

Yet that's not even close to what he said. A SWING and a miss!

Eh... close enough.

He probably thought Jimmy took a swing at a HC and missed, but he didn't say it out loud. It's easier right now to force an OC on Hue that has some HC experience, so he can eventually replace Hue next year.

Smack in the Pure Football Forum. I'll leave you to that.

or just maybe he has now time to study a lot more game film and realizes we have more YOUNG talent than he thought.

The comments were made one week apart. I guess that is enough time to watch some film, but my guess is that he put his foot in his mouth and then had to back track.

So when he says what you like, you present it as gospel. But when he says something contrary to that he is lying?

So you think when you backtrack on what you said, you're being more honest? Yeah, that's the ticket. lmao

Or you were lying the first time.

Yeah, that's the first thing most people do when they get hired. Lie right out of the gate. Let's face it, the first thing he did was pretty much say the talent sucked. Looking at the statement you provided, all he really said was the talent sucked less.

Well, he didn't lie right out of the gate. In his first press conference he said that Sashi Brown set up the team great for the future.

He did in the way of salary cap and draft picks. But you have to use those resources properly for all of that to pay off. I mean we've been set up when it comes to draft picks the last couple of years. We sort of punted on those to set it up for the following year.

It's a great position to be in for sure. But at some point you have to spend that capital and you have to get it right. Hey, Sashi did some very good things while he was here too.

That darn logic stuff isn't going to fly here!

Hue's making a career out of it.

There is also young talent on their rookie contracts (Myles Garrett, Emmanuel Ogbah, David Njoku, Briean Boddy-Calhoun, Duke Johnson, Larry Ogunjobi, Danny Shelton, Joe Schobert, and, somehow, Josh Gordon) and veterans under contract for 2018 (Joe Thomas, Joel Bitonio, Kevin Zeitler, Christian Kirksey, Jason McCourty, and Jamie Collins) to go along with the cap space and draft picks.

This team is set up extremely well for the future and it would take gross negligence to mess it up.

I'm not quite so sure about that. Some of these players will improve and some will not. And there's a lot of areas in need of improvement. Our secondary is putrid at best. Let's face it, to this point Calhoun is probably a pretty good nickel back (the position, not the musical group, but he's not a legit CB. We certainly need a QB and most likely a RB. Corey Coleman hasn't developed to this point and Gordon certainly hasn't shown he can be depended on. I mean we could go further but at this juncture people can really disagree.

I see a lot of young players. Some are certainly performing well to an extent. But real impact players? Only time can give us those answers.

So if you claim it would take gross negligence to continue to find a QB and fix a flailing O, then that's all we've had for the past 18 years. Because the talent on the O side of the ball and our secondary is terrible.

Agreed. I don't think I have ever said any different. But Rome wasn't built in a day.

Some would say that the two most important parts of the team, the offensive and defensive line, are basically fixed and ready to go. That is very important.



Nickel backs are basically starting players on every team in the NFL. They are very valuable. I didn't mention Corey Coleman for a reason. I think he has talent, but he has also been injured.

Not so sure this team is set up as well as you think for the future, I think there is some talent there, but what happens when all those young guys with talent start getting into there negotiations for there next contract, that’s a lot of contracts and money to figure out. Will we be able to keep all the players we’d like to keep?

That's a great point and one that my friends and I are hot on right now. That pending issue makes the search for a vet QB even more imperative.

We aren't in "win-now" mode by any stretch...but it's right around the corner with such a lopsided roster.

Vet QB..vet WRs...vet DBs...that will change this team right now

I brought that up when Sashi made the plan. Of course, I was called clueless and it wasn't even worth discussing.

Sashi is gone...you need to get over it. You bring his name up more than the rest of the board...COMBINED.

I thought we were discussing contracts expiring.

Oh my, are you suggesting this was Hue's plan? LMAO

I certainly WAS discussing expiring contracts. I don't care about Sashi...he's gone. I don't think Hue has any control over player contracts or acquisition anymore.

Since you asked, I don't think Hue even HAS a plan.

So, let me make sure I understand your rules..........when we are discussing expiring contracts, we are not permitted to mention Sashi?

Do I have that right?

Vers is working on his next vacation I see. Well I'm off to do something else.

You have the market cornered on demanding what, where and how others post. The real rules of the Board are there for all to read...no need to ask me. Just like we don't need you hi-jacking every thread to tell people where to post.

You are obsessed with Sashi...he's gone. Let it go.

How so?

No. You can't keep every player. It's why teams trade a Collins or a Garoppolo. We have the most players signed thru 2020 in the league, and we also have 4 picks in the top 35 of this year's draft. If we continue to draft well, we will be fine. That's how it works.

With that many guys, and this draft haul, all under essentially the same contracts, it's going to take some astute talent evaluation to figure out who to extend and when.

Thank God that Sashi won't be making those decisions.

Please stop ruining every thread with Sashi Sashi Sashi posts. He is long gone. This is a thread about the roster. There is a Sashi thread somewhere on the planet - that no cares about - where you can make these posts.

I'm sorry, but "the roster" has Sashi's influence all over it. And you have permitted Diam, rasta, and many others to hijack numerous threads w/their repeated attacks on Hue.

If they can turn every thread into a "Hue sucks" thread, than I can damn well talk about Sashi in a thread about the roster, especially since he is the one most responsible for our current roster.

Except Sashi isn't here... nor has he been here for the past 2 1/2 months.

Yet is was his decisions that have assembled the current roster. So maybe it will stop coming up when someone else starts signing FA's and making the draft picks.

Like it or not, our current roster is the roster Sashi assembled.

It's funny how it's fine to talk about Hue's past record. I mean those seasons are over, right? Just like Sashi being gone, right?

If you can trash Hues past actions, why is it you seem so butt hurt that people question Sashi?

Yeah, Sashi is gone but the team he built, or didn't build is right here, right now.

And Pitdawg will be the first one to sing Sashi's praises when Dorsey cashes out on all of those picks and all of that Cap space Dorsey gets to enjoy this year.

Hey somebody has to do it. I mean Sashi could have drafted Wentz but he instead kicked the can down the road. Hopefully we have someone who can step up the plate and commit to a QB.

Again you really need to understand what "kick the can down the road" means.

Sashi would have drafted Wentz if our QB whisperer liked him enough.

We won't have to worry this year though Dorsey will tell Hue who his QB will be just like he told him who his OC will be.

Just like Dorsey made him hire an OC and give up play calling. Apparently Dorsey didn't think Hue was doing a good job at it.

So you wish to blame Hue because Sashi didn't do his job. Sad really.....

That's an easy one. Sashi kept trading away picks instead of drafting impact players by kicking the can down the road until next year. The only time he didn't do it was by drafting Garrett.

Nope I'm pointing out how Hue is good at getting other people fired for his mistakes.

If you don't believe me you can look at the coaching staff Hue hired when he first got here. How many of those guys are still here?

Pit "kicking the can down the road" doesn't mean what you think it means.

Its not a bad thing not to know something, but when someone points that out to you and you still keep repeating the mistake, it doesn't paint a pretty picture.

I'm tired of reading my stockers BS today. See you tomorrow.

"stalkers"

lol

Did you somehow miss Joe T's recent comments?

I chuckled a little. The Browns have certainly demonstrated over the years they are quite capable in the "gross negligence" department. LOL

Did you miss when JT called RG3's play "franchise-level talent" when we signed him? Just because we all like JT doesn't mean everything he says is gold. In fact, it's been quite the opposite over the years.

I remember when he said we were grooming Osweiler to be the starter and then Hue pulled the plug and we released him.

That wasn't Hue that... oh. I see what you did there.

j/c...Sashi has a big say in our current roster so I guess he is relevant in this thread.

I think Sashi did a lot of good. Joe Thomas explained "THE PLAN", I knew what the plan was and I was happy with it when we made the commitment. Implementing the plan well some things I didn't like. Most of all not taking Carson Wentz who was and obvious solution to our Franchise QB.

But I understood the plan and agreed with it. We have had many rebuilds since 1999 but not was bare to the bone like this rebuild. It was evident when in year one 2016 we had 19, NINETEEN ROOKIES on our Roster of 53.

It was not a situation for winning. Did I expect 1-31? no not at all.

Now back to the Roster. We actually have a solid foundation for the PLAN. Would Sashi mess it up if left in his hands.
Well not quite sure. But again What I did not like was not getting us a viable Franchise QB Prospect that was actually a Firing offense if you ask me. I stated all along that I liked Sashi, I liked Hue - but I did have strong feeling that whoever was responsible for not bringing Wentz here in 2016 should be fired. So I have no qualms on Sashi being let go.

I also knew that when Hue was hired you put together a staff to become functional.

I think Hue has the DC he wants and now has the OC he wants to make this happen.

The record was terrible but our roster is not.
Mostly young but good football players.

I thought releasing Joe Haden was a mistake, not one we can't get over equal to the magnitude of letting a Franchise QB slip through our fingertips.

We kept some good young players from the previous regime.
Shelton, Bitonio, Kirksey, for instance. We added some solid players. Ogbah, Garrett, Corey, Larry, even Brantley for the DL...Schobert is looking solid, Collins is a stud with skills,
I'm a little cautious on his TEAM assets. Hopefully Williams can use him in his version of the 46 D.

I like Kindred, I think Peppers is a lot better than his detractors paint. I just cringe at some of the discussion regarding his tackling...the kid is a good tackler...do you know btw how easy/hard it is to tackle when you are coming up from 30 yards away at a full sprint??? I can't wait to have us utilize him in more attack mode than staying back the way he was but we were limited in available talent.

I actually see McCourty as our future FS. We need more Big CBs FA or draft.

I like the FA pickups of Zietler and Tretter. We let go guys like, McCown, Greco and Haden as part of the plan and as Joe stated in the long run it was the right move but we paid for it in the short run.

Hue gets a lot of credit and respect from me for holding it together 1-31 without having a revolution that is one heck of a job!

I am happy that Dorsey has the responsibility to finish this.
I don't know if he will be great at it but I do have confidence in him. He has a need for Berry and Depodesta and will use them. He brought in two very good people in his personnel department to get this right.

Between Hue, Haley, Kitchen, Zampese and Dorsey with the aptitude in utilizing that knowledge we will make the correct decision regarding our QB position first and foremost!

The QB room was just awful last year that was a crime against all us fans who love our Browns. But it is over with. I suspect that only Kizer will remain, I think he earned that.
but he probably will be #3 on the depth chart, a good thing.

RB this is a strong class for that. Not going to debate the who, just again confident we should have some impact there.

Got to protect my man Joe Thomas here...
Memphis, what JT stated when we signed RG3 has a total different weight to it then talking about a synopsis of the season and our future. As a player and big part of the O he was excited that we got what was considered a "FRANCHISE LEVEL TALENT" he was stating a fact not much to do with opinion as RG3 was coming off of a series of injuries.

But how does that discredit his opinion on the state of the Browns.

Also it was at the beginning of him finding his voice...up to that point he was a man of a few words.

What Joe said was what he observed to be. If Brock was taking the first team reps...guess what that means..ahem, Grooming him to be the starter. Oh wait and he was named the starter of preseason one and two.

What was he suppose to say. It wasn't a statement of WHAT JOE THOMAS THINKS THE BROWNS SHOULD DO. It was his observations of what he saw during that time.

He now had most the season to for the first time step back and observe and that is when HE GOT IT...The Plan, he understood it.

What many suggested what he was saying about Haden was just something posters here were making up.

Anyways we have a chance to build on this Roster. As for Joe Thomas wishes and wants...ya think he was any clearer on what he wants when he talked about Drew Brees That is what he wants, that is not an observation of what he sees happening,
you all get the drift of the difference of the two???

jmho

Joe was on the team. He knows the situation in regards to X's and Os', guys playing hard, the roster, etc.

I trust his word over yours and the small band of posters who are on a witch hunt.

Well my friend, the difference is it is still germane to discuss Hue since he is still the coach. Why wouldn't you still talk about the teams current coach?


Understand?

Browns notebook: Hue Jackson says landing big-name veteran QB and drafting QB at No. 1 is ‘on the table’

Published: January 24, 2018 - 10:12 PM | Updated: January 25, 2018 - 9:27 AM

https://www.ohio.com/akron/sports/browns...is-on-the-table

By Nate Ulrich
Beacon Journal/Ohio.com

MOBILE, ALA.: The main mission of the Browns this offseason is to solve their 25-year quarterback problem, and the ammunition to get it done belongs to them.

They’ll have more than $100 million in salary-cap space heading into free agency March 14 and the first and fourth overall picks entering the draft April 26.

So the Browns could conceivably sign or trade for a big-name veteran quarterback and draft a QB at No. 1 overall, too.

“I think all of those things are on the table,” Jackson said Wednesday at the Senior Bowl when asked about that scenario. “I think you discuss all of those things and you work through all of those things as you go through this.”

So the possibility of signing Washington’s Kirk Cousins to a mega-deal or trading for the Kansas City Chiefs’ Alex Smith shouldn’t be dismissed.

The popular belief is the Browns wouldn’t pick a quarterback at No. 1 if they were to sign Cousins, but a QB would still be in play atop the draft if Smith were acquired via trade.

During an interview Wednesday on ESPN’s Golic and Wingo, Browns 10-time Pro Bowl left tackle Joe Thomas lobbied for signing Cousins.

“We have $118 million in cap space. So we’ve got plenty of money to do whatever we want,” Thomas said. “But I would actually sign Kirk Cousins and then I would use the first and fourth pick on the best players available. Probably [Penn State running back] Saquon Barkley and one of the defensive players. I’m not exactly sure where they go, where they rank all the quarterbacks. But, for me, I would rather sign Kirk Cousins because we have the money. Then you don’t have to trade a draft pick for a guy like Alex Smith.”

This much is certain: Jackson wants new General Manager John Dorsey to add wins to the quarterback room by getting a veteran this offseason. The Browns entered last season with three quarterbacks — rookie DeShone Kizer, Cody Kessler and Kevin Hogan — who had zero regular-season NFL victories on their resumes. It was a huge factor in the team going 0-16.

“Do we want to be in that situation again? No, we don’t. You need to have a quarterback that knows how to win in the National Football League, but circumstances sometimes dictate otherwise,” Jackson said. “You just don’t know how things will unfold, but if we had the best of all of the worlds, we would want a guy in there who has won in the National Football League and knows what that looks like and what that position has to play like to have that.”

Short of signing Cousins, the Browns are widely expected to draft a quarterback at No. 1. Jackson said he doesn’t have one in mind for the top pick because it’s still early.

Jackson said he agreed with what Dorsey told Browns beat writers Tuesday at the Senior Bowl: There are four or five QBs in this year’s class worthy of consideration at No. 1.

UCLA’s Josh Rosen, Southern California’s Sam Darnold, Wyoming’s Josh Allen and Oklahoma’s Baker Mayfield are in the mix. If there’s a fifth, it’s probably Louisville’s Lamar Jackson.

“I know we are going to vet out every quarterback there is, and I think John [Dorsey] was very honest with you guys about there is four or five prospects that could land in this first seat,” Jackson said. “Let’s see how that all unfolds. … Let’s let the process take us through it and give us the right answer at the right time.”

At this stage, I'm okay if they spend 95% of the picks on QB, surely ONE has got to come...

I mean, right?

I'm on record ;
.... You could sign Kirk Cousins and I would still draft a QB at #1 ( you never pass up a Franchise QB no matter who is on your roster )And then if there was a guy I liked sittin there in the forth , I'd take another one .. Start making a REAL attempt to get this Monkey off our back ..

I agree waterdawg, Lets get this fixed, Cousins/Smith FA, Darnold/Allen #1, Fulk in the 4th ... JMHO

j/c:

It scares me a bit when Dorsey and Hue both say there are 4 quarterbacks that could go so high in the draft.

I do like the idea of us bringing in a vet who has actually won some games.

It is the "silly season", as they used to call it. Also, just because they think that 4 QBs could go high in the draft doesn't necessarily that they would take them if they were available.

It is imperative for the Browns to bring in a vet.

Just for team psyche alone. The Browns need to win games.

The draft? I don't care about NFL ready because none of them are.

We need a vet who has won in the NFL. There are guys available.

In no way does that mean we don't draft a QB number one.

The Browns need to decide who is the best quarterback prospect for this team. Then go draft him.

Nobody means what they say in the silly season Vers. I think they know a kid who runs from the cops isn't a serious candidate. I think if you would take another look they say there are four candidates based on talent alone. And they also said it's early in the process. The process won't take long to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Why is it scary? I think it's exciting. The future of the NFL is in this draft.

I can't wait to see the uproar if we draft Baker. Can't wait.

I wanted Darnold bad last year, but as time goes on I think Mayfield might be our best choice.

Rosen is the best pure passer. But with him I worry he doesn't want to play here and he might be to fragile.

Darnold has the highest ceiling according to pundits but imho he is a project and needs to sit at least a year.

Mayfield is the least 'fit the mold' of the group, but he is accurate and more athletic I think than the others. I like his must win attitude and that he has walked on and won the job twice.

Allen is mini Ben. He has potential and good size, good arm, etc. But again a project and I think Darnold has more upside for a project.

Jackson reminds me of Vick. He's a very good QB but has a run first mentality imho. He is smallish and I think even if successful he will have a short career in the NFL due to his running game.

Mason Rudolph is the Jimmy Garoppolo of this draft. He is underrated, not ready yet but the best 'long term' project for a later pick.

I will honestly be happy with any of these guys but if I was forced to rank them it would look like this:

Mayfield
Rosen
Darnold
Rudolph
Allen
Jackson

Here is the deal Water. I don't think Cousins will sigh with us unless he is assured we won't draft a QB in the first few rounds.

It wouldn't out of fear of competition. Cousins as always been viewed in DC as the stepchild. He wants to go to a team who is committed to him. Signing him, then drafting a QB in round one wouldn't be showing that commitment, and I agree with him. If we make a play for Cousins, it has to be all in. Any drafted QB to work behind Kizer, or in competition with Kizer, would have to be a 3rd round guy tops.

I have liked this idea for a good while. I like some of the rookie QB's, but I like the idea of Cousins better. He is still a long tern option. Some people talk about rookies as 15 year deals. I will be happy with a 5-6-7 year long term deal because we know what we are getting. I am not trading the bird in my game bag for the two birds in the bush. That bird in the bag means I know i have food on the table.

Sign Cousins, draft Barkley and the defensive stud of your choice. Maybe Fitz, maybe Roguan Smith, Chubb...get better tomorrow.

We need the sun to come up tomorrow. Tomorrow! Tomorrow!, I love you, Tomorrow. You're always a day away!

Agreed, bone'. We really must win a couple of games early. As one poster said previously, Matt Moore may present a better option than most would think...

The playoffs have undoubtedly helped Kirk Cousins. Watching Keenum, Bortles and Foles go off in the playoffs has put to bed that there is more than one way to win in the NFL; especially when the alternative is the greatest quarterback of all time.

I'd take Cousins over any of these three quarterbacks, and those three respective rosters aren't out of the realm of possibility in terms of establishing equal quality.

The Browns have a strong foundation to offer that. Already a strong front seven, a decent OL and the ability to immediately add the likes of Barkley and Fitzpatrick, with plenty of money and draft selections remaining.

It is a similar plan to that which Dorsey originally followed with the Chiefs when building around Alex Smith.

There is understandably trepidation that Cousins isn't elite, and rolling the dice on a quarterback could produce an elite quarterback, but I won't be surprised to see Dorsey jump at the certainty of a very good quarterback before the slim chance of getting an elite quarterback from this class.

John Dorsey expects Joe Thomas to return in 2018

The lineman may return for the 2018 season.

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-brow...-2018-114221658

In regards to a potential retirement, the public has not been given any indication on which way Cleveland Browns offensive tackle Joe Thomas is leaning. The lineman recently said that he goes back and forth.

General Manager John Dorsey joined the 'Bull & Fox Show' on 92.3 The Fan to discuss several topics including Thomas' future. Dorsey may have tipped his hand.

“We all admire Joe Thomas. We all think he’s a great person. I think he’s a great football player. We’ve had nice discussions with each other. I expect Joe to come back," Dorsey said.

"I mean I do, I’m the eternal optimist. But, you also have to make sure you have plans in place if something like that doesn’t happen. I want Joe back, the whole organization does..city of Cleveland does, too."

Thomas is recovering from a ruptured left triceps tendon. He is on pace for a return in June or July. His eleven year professional career has produced ten Pro Bowl appearances. The 33 year old played a consecutive 10,363 offensive snaps before suffering his injury.

The Wisconsin product was the No. 3 overall selection in the 2007 NFL Draft. He has one year remaining on his contract.
Author

I think he will be back. Show enough spunk next season, he may sign for 2 more.

It would be a huge boost for the team if Joe returns.

I believe his decision hinges on the Browns signing a veteran quarterback. Joe has hit the wall with rookie quarterbacks.

If he returns for two more years the Browns can better plan for his replacement.

Joe said in an interview on the Golic/Wingo show, (Vambo posted it on here), that he'll let the team know of his decision before the FA period so they'll be able to plan on his return or retirement.

I doubt we'll sign a QB before the FA period, (I don't know if trades follow the same dates).

I agree with you, hearing Joe talk he does seem weary of rookie or crappy FA QBs.

I agree with you to an extent. Yet at the same time I think Joe will let the team know if he's coming back before the FA signing period begins. I simply don't feel he'll leave the team in the dark going into the FA signing period.

I think his decision will hinge on a few factors. One would be his overall health and exactly how much more punishment he wants to put his body through. Secondly the wishes of his family. And thirdly, does he believe in the new FO and the addition of Haley.

I feel if Joe believes this new set up will actually be an answer to moving this team forward, the only thing standing in his way would be points one and two.

A trade for Alex Smith would preclude free agency.

In addition Joe has earned the right to know. Meaning Dorsey should show respect in regards to Joe and tell him his intentions regarding free agency. It is not something that he has to do. However, it would go far in gaining trust with the team. He doesn't have to be specific because negotiations can go different ways. But he can let Joe know his intentions to sign some veterans in key areas.

I don't think trades can occur until the new league year starts. With that said, my guess is that Joe Thomas will let the team know well before then.

For all we know, or will likely ever know, Dorsey may have already told him about his desired plan.

So what is it he can actually tell Joe? We're going to "try" to sign Kirk Cousins? The 2018 trading period begins at 4:00 P.M. on March 14th. The FA signing period begins on March 9th. So actually they will have to wait longer to trade for Smith.

I mean I guess they can tell Joe what they want to do or what they're going to try to do, but that's about all they can tell him.

Well was talking in " What if mode " lol .. I don't look for Cousins to sign here .. If'in I was an owner , no payer would dictate who or whom I could draft or sign ..

After Cousins who I don't will sign here and Smith which was cost a draft pick ; What Vet would have any real clout ??

Once again ; I don't care what we do in FA ... I am going QB at #1 , and then again later in the draft .

I fixed that for you buddy

I kinda have to agree with you. If momma ain't happy, nobodie's happy.

Joe has been filmed, interviewed and even written in defense of Hue and saying that with Dorsey here to cherry pick the right players + our cap space there is "no reason that the Browns can't go to the playoffs next year". He believes in the direction of the ship...I bet he returns so he can be part of it. If, however, it is another disappointing year, he will hang his cleats.

No chance Cody Kessler returns to Browns in 2018

The end may be near for one Browns quarterback.

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-brow...-2018-114413143

The writing is on the wall for at least one, and probably two, Cleveland Browns quarterbacks entering this off-season.

It is a guarantee that the Browns add at least one quarterback this off-season. They are not keeping four quarterbacks on their roster next season. Who is the odd man out? Fans need not look any further than the inactive reports to end the season.

Kevin Hogan and Cody Kessler alternated spending time on the inactive report throughout the season. From Week 7-Week 13, Hogan was inactive. He was active in the four remaining games. What occurred the week leading up to Week 14 against the Green Bay Packers? Ownership had announced that Executive Vice President of Football Operations Sashi Brown had been relieved of his duties and replaced with General Manager John Dorsey.

Hogan was a fifth round draft choice out of Stanford in the 2016 NFL Draft. He was selected by the Kansas City Chiefs, who was then the employer of Dorsey. Cleveland claimed him on waivers when he was made available. Kessler had been taken in the third round of the same draft. It is hard to ignore that favoritism can exist in the NFL.

When the Browns add a quarterback this off-season and need to replace someone on the roster, it makes sense for Kessler to be shown the door. It would also not be a surprise to see Cleveland add two quarterbacks and release Hogan, trade Kizer.

Kessler will likely get another opportunity in the league, however. He has played in 12 games. In those appearances, he has completed 139-of-218 passes for 1,506 yards, six touchdowns and three interceptions.

lol, pure speculation and common sense.

No source or anything behind this call. lol

OMG!!! someone speculated on this board OH NO.

It is difficult to envision any scenario wherein Cody is on our roster next season...

I think you missed out on what i was talking about.

I was talking about the article. Not a poster on the board.


The title of the article is misleading

Hardly what I would call a article. More an opinion piece in a blog type site.

Take it for what it's worth, but I agree Kessler looks to be the first odd man out.

Hogan or Kizer might be the other if we sign a bridge QB and draft a rookie. I say Hogan or Kizer because Dorsey may like Hogan and or we might find a trade partner for Kizer.

I made my comments inside your post

Makes sense.

After what I saw last year, far as I'm concerned, Kizer's the only one I like.


He's got real toughness to him. But I'd like for him to sit, chill-out, get his head together, work on his game, and grow from last year.


But, hey, he played near a whole season (one game missed due to the Kevin Hogan experiment/let Kizer take a break and reflect or something). Not many Browns QBs have done that in awhile.

So I do like that about him. That's for sure

'peen,

I think we'll see more than a few. With all of our high picks, plus whatever we pick up in FA, we're going to see a LOT of new faces in camp.

That's why I kinda want to trade up with a bunch of our picks, or trade picks into next year's draft.


We have a real young team, and we plan on bringing in veterans. Then we have a ton of draft picks.

I'd love to take those 3 seconds and 2 thirds, and get like two more firsts out of them or something.


EDIT: Doesn't Buffalo have two firsts?

Oh, and it seems like we might not have two thirds..... thought we did

I guess it just depends on if you think some of those guys are any good.

I don't hold much hope for some of them.


I am up for trading down if it makes sense. I am up for trading up if it makes sense. I just don't see the point in waiting for Carl Nassib to emerge. He's a decent guy, works hard, but Ii don't ever see him being a stud.


We can do better. Let him back-up somewhere else.

The guys listed there just finished their second year in the league. Some of them playing in two completely different philosophies each year.

Part of the point I was making is that if we weren't previously so devoid of talent, a guy like Nassib wouldn't have seen the field much...let alone start games at the end of the year. He'd get time to develop before being asked to start.

A guy like Burgess would have never started a game but for injury. The way the LB group was going before Collins got hurt, we'd have only seen Burgess in very limited, specific roles. Roles where he could succeed.

Cody Kessler would not even have seen the field his first two years if we had a decent starting QB.

Not only did the guys I listed play a lot in two years (and likely played too much due to necessity) they oftentimes played next-to, in-front-of, or behind a guy(s) with even less experience than said third-year guy.

Shobert made the pro bowl and BBC was the 6th rated slot CB in the league. If that's only "decent" out of a second-year, 4th Rd pick and a UDFA, I'll take more decent please.

I'm not saying these guys are studs, but they played well - and played a lot - before that vaunted 3rd year. Good teams are able to pick guys like those I listed and let them sit and learn how to be a stud...or even decent. We had to throw them in and let them learn how to swim. I think they performed quite well...all things considered.

Point taken on BBC and Showbert.

My thoughts/opinions...............

FS-needs upgrade or vast 2nd year improvement

SS-Kindred solid starter

depth is intriguing with Nicua and Currie both seem solid

SAM-Jamie Collins-we haven't seen how good of player Jamie is capable of being...hopefully that player can return healthy

MLB-Schobert solid starter

WIL-Kirksey solid starter

None of the LBs excell in coverage though...depth seems solid especially Burgess

CBs-other then Boddy the CBs are replaceable players that should be upgraded from. Imo they were the primary cause of the pass defense struggles as the scheme was created to prevent them from being exposed.

DEs-Garrett and Ogbah have 10 sack potential, Nassib is a solid depth player/sub...but all three are kinda 'base' end types I would like to add a bendy speed rusher EVEN if they only play 3rd downs then we could kick Ogbah inside in 3rd down/nickel packages

Needs: CB1, CB2, Speed Rusher, FS, Coverage LB

I agree... McCourty is aging. Taylor lacked the effort from his great 2016 campaign. I'm curious to see if Wilson will ever be a factor. But I think this is where Fitzpatrick would be a must pick at 4 as he could play CB, but being at FS would solve that too...

Sashi spent lot of capital on D and WRs- we have some return, but not enough. Besides QB- we need RB, CB, and WRs who can separate
if Coleman can play the slot- move him, he ain't getting it done on outside and JMHO is to small. Besides, he is brittle, who knew. We have got to score some POINTS....GO Browns!!!

What about Left Tackle?

If Joe Thomas retires, that position is as important as any besides QB.........

I like Spencer Drango, but he's a backup. He simply isn't athletic enough to keep up with good DEs. Shaun Coleman is developing as a RT. I don't think he is the answer at LT. He's not that great of a pass blocker.


I think that's something we've forgotten on this board. I think we've also forgotten what a luxury Joe Thomas has been.

do you think that puts the LT from Notre Dame on the board for us with #4 pick???

I dunno. My number 4 is Fitzpatrick at this point (assuming 1 goes to the QB).

I've seen him play, and noticed him before I ever heard his name. "I said, "Man, that guy is an NFL player."

So that's who I want.


I don't know anything about the LT's this year except there's three that seem to get talked about, and that guy from Oklahoma is huge.

I kind of am hoping we make a big push to sign Nate Solder (assuming Joe Thomas retires). If Joe doesn't retire, drafting a future LT in the 2nd round has to be looked at.



I'm not like a LT is the third most important position on the team type of guy. I don't think we have to draft LT at 4 with a reach. But, I recognize that there's something that no one on here is talking about, and that's that Joe Thomas is very likely to retire and we need some sort of plan.

Oh, and tackles are harder to find than guards, because the footspeed required

I can't speak for anyone else Tab. I just don't think the talent meets the pick there. I do know need plays into it but I just don't see Mike McGlinchey as being worth the #4 pick. We drafted Thomas at #3 and I was thrilled about it. But I wouldn't share that feeling if we took Mike at #4.

Rodger, any ideas on a LT plan?

If Joe Thomas retires, how do you feel about a season with Spencer Drango as starter.


Only guy I saw on the FA list I noticed was Nate Solder, Greg Robinson, and Will Beatty.


Robinson was cut in November after Taylor Decker came back to the Lions. I think he's a bust. And Will Beatty I just know of cause he played at UConn

Not at this time. It's almost like finding a QB. It can be done but it's not easy. They're in high demand and a decent one rarely hits the FA market.

As sad as it is to say, with the years of losing piling up I have a much harder time finding the passion to follow the draft and FA market like I used to.

GOD NOOOOOooooooooooooo

Hes not that good ... i mean the #4 pick ... he’s a good player .. just not THAT GOOD ...

There isn't a LT in this draft worth a top 10 pick. A guard maybe, but not a tackle.

The Cleveland Browns announced Wednesday that they’ve signed TE Devon Cajuste, DB Denzel Rice, and OL Christian Schneider to futures contracts for the 2018 season.

As of now, the Browns have signed 14 players to futures deals including:

WR C.J. Board
LB Austin Calitro
DB Trevon Hartfield
WR Bug Howard
RB Josh Rounds
OL Victor Salako
DB B.W. Webb
WR Kasen Williams
DL Collin Bevins
RB Kelvin Taylor
TE Gavin Escobar
TE Devon Cajuste
DB Denzel Rice
OL Christian Schneider

Christian Schneider was a UDFA for Green Bay last year and has played LT.

I love your posts but have a question on the part bolded. I thought Garrett was one of those 'bend' types. I even recall JT in an interview gushing with how much bend Garrett had around the corner? I may be recalling incorrectly. The ankle may have slowed him some this year but I think Garrett is an all you can eat rusher. I'm not a pimp or anything like that but he is a phenomenal athlete. Bend is something he 'does' unless I'm totally missing a point

Garrett is one of those bendy type rushers.

The guy was in Rookie Mini-Camp (not sure if he made it past that). He played RT in College at UC-Davis.

Spencer Drango played LT at Baylor all four years. Two time all-american.

If Drango is a poor option at LT, I don't think Schneider is an option at all.

I wish Schneider the best of luck, but I don't think he's being thought of as an option to replace Joe Thomas

He played all 5 positions at UC Davis, but played LT his senior year.

I think he is a shot in the dark as well, but one of our GB front office guys must have seen something in him.

Sure. To sign him to the training camp roster for next year......


I don't think Schneider is being looked at as an option to replace Joe Thomas.

It's something we're definitely going to have to deal with, unless we're comfortable with Spencer Drango as LT.

I like Spencer Drango, but i'm not sure he's going to improve much with experience

I'm holding out a tiny hope for Roderick Johnson, but there isn't anyone on this roster that is going to replace Joe Thomas.

If we're forced to, we'd probably slide Bitonio over.

I was thinking the same thing. Then take that beast of a guard from Notre Dame with the fourth pick.

Quenton Nelson has future Hall of Famer written all over him. He is the best player in the draft in my opinion, but since he's a guard, he might not be drafted in the top ten.

Got to pimp local guys with talent. C.J. Board played in Chattanooga. A pretty good receiver. Nice size....6' 2" or 3"....good weight/speed for size.....he could stick....has good hands. He caught around 50 balls for over 1000 yds as a Sr., and we had a running QB.

Bug Howard has a good shot too. He stood out when I was watching tape of Mr Biscuit last year.

No one replaces Joe, name a team with LT all pro every year in league..NONE, zip, except Joe....Drango twice All American, they don't give that title away- no Joe, but SHOULD be better than average....GO Browns. Needs QB, RB, WR, DB pretty much in that order would LOVE Donald and PS RB.....GO Browns!!!

j/c...
Was not thinking about LT just read a post n made me think.

Pretty sure if we get vet QB Joe will be with us 100%.

Drango actually played well I would go with him till we make a serious investment.

ND guy was only guy I read in the draft for LT.
Little Zeus is a RT like his dad.

I get that no one replaces Joe. He's one of the best pass blocking LTs ever.

But Drango was an All-American LT in College. He was a 5th/6th round pick for a reason. He's just not that athletic.

I think we'd be wise to see if we can find a better replacement for Joe Thomas if we can




Drango did better last year than I thought he would, but I'd certainly prefer something better next year as a starter. I just don't think Drango's that athletic, he was certainly the weak link of the O-Line after the snap. Shaun Coleman not that far behind.

The thing is, Shaun Coleman has the athleticism to improve. I don't think Drango has that.

That's not to say I don't like Drango. I just feel like he's the 6th man journeyman backup that we can plug-in at four positions and he'll be mediocre if necessary (although at LG he's better than mediocre). JMHO though.

jc


Link

j/c:

Browns GM John Dorsey isn’t starting from scratch, has talent to build around

When John Dorsey took over the general manager job in Kansas City in 2012, the Chiefs were coming off a 2-14 season, the worst in the NFL. In one of his first transactions as Kansas City’s GM, Dorsey swung for the fences, trading for then-San Francisco 49ers quarterback Alex Smith. What followed was the best single-season improvement in franchise history, as the Chiefs finished 11-5 in 2013. While Dorsey was inheriting the worst record in football, he wasn’t taking over the worst team in football. Kansas City had sent five players to the previous year’s Pro Bowl, and one of the league’s most dynamic players, Jamaal Charles, was an All-Pro selection.

This time around, Dorsey is again taking over a team with the worst record in football. But despite finishing with a league-worst 1-31 record over the last two seasons, it’s difficult to label the Cleveland Browns as the most talent-poor team in the NFL. There’s a foundation in place — like the Chiefs in January of 2013 — that likely made it an appealing job to Dorsey, despite the dysfunction that has followed the franchise for the better part of two decades.

A part of the incredibly successful Ron Wolf personnel tree, Dorsey has a clear philosophy of team building and what makes up the backbone of a team capable of contending. That philosophy went with him to Kansas City, where he transformed the Chiefs into one of the league’s most consistent teams. Now, Dorsey brings that philosophy – and Ron Wolf’s son, Eliot – with him to Cleveland.

Former Washington GM and another Wolf disciple, Scot McCloughan, gave an in-depth interview during the 2016 offseason about team building. During the wide-ranging interview, he outlined what gives a team a chance at competing:

“So, if you’re lucky, you have four or five blues, and hopefully one of those is your quarterback. If you have another 30 who are reds, starters, solid backups, core special teams guys, then you have a chance.”

With the Packer Way in mind, it becomes more apparent why Dorsey was willing to take the Browns’ GM job. In Myles Garrett and a potentially back-on-track Josh Gordon, Cleveland has two ‘blues’ (blue chip players) in place and under team control. Joe Thomas, if he returns for 2018, represents a third. As McCloughan put it, “Hopefully one of those is your quarterback,” and that’s the next blue chipper Dorsey must add. Hitting on a QB, either with the first or fourth selection, is imperative. With two top-five selections – and Dorsey’s history of player evaluation – there’s a good chance both of the Browns’ top two selections are both blue chippers, or at the very least players with that ceiling.

Even the worst teams in the league can have elite level talent, though. It’s the depth of Cleveland’s ‘red’ players that speaks to the better-than-advertised state of the roster. Granted, it takes a bit of betting on potential, but the Browns have almost half of the 30 red chip players already in place: Duke Johnson, Corey Coleman, Joel Bitonio, J.C. Tretter, Kevin Zeitler, Danny Shelton, Caleb Brantley, Emmanuel Ogbah Carl Nassib, Joe Schobert, David Njoku, Jabrill Peppers, Larry Ogunjobi, Jamie Collins, Christian Kirksey, Jason McCourty, Briean Boddy-Calhoun, Zane Gonzalez and Britton Colquitt give the Browns 18 solid contributors in all three phases.

The concept of blue and red chip players, like team building in general, is fluid. There are players who fit the definition of a red chipper today who could be All-Pros in a couple seasons time, and vice versa; as difficult as it is to imagine, Joe Thomas won’t play forever. Emmanuel Ogbah is a red chip player, but in a year’s time, he and Garrett could resemble one of the league’s most fierce pass-rushing duos. Prior to being lost for the season following Week 11, Ogbah’s four sacks and 15 tackles for loss ranked him T-7th in tackles at or behind the line of scrimmage, ahead of stars such as Cameron Jordan, Von Miller, Aaron Donald and Khalil Mack. He’s shown growth consistent with that of a player who reaches All-Pro status. Jamie Collins was the best player on a defense that finished 11th in Football Outsiders’ DVOA in 2014 and has the skill set to be an ideal defender to combat positionless NFL offenses.

So while Cleveland is coming off an 0-16 season, they could have as many as five blue-chip players already on the roster, with two top-five selections still to come. Dorsey has inherited a talented roster and the resources to make it into a legitimate playoff team. As the Browns’ latest savior, he is starting from the bottom of the NFL, but he isn’t starting from scratch.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/...o-build-around/

I don't agree with all the "reds" listed, but it's mostly correct, IMO.

The secret to winning teams is not having the best talent, but extracting the best from the players you have.

What's the point on giving talented players to Hue? We had few,and he wouldn't even use them....

Coaching trumps talent..

I think many of the listed red players are average at most, and some of them, like Peppers are mediocre at best, yet I do think that we have good DL and OL...

And all the draft picks and cap room crap.... We have had lots of picks and cap room for years now,and still we managed to build the worst team in NFL history....

This might transform the thread, sorry. However, I think it's simple to fix this team as it stands. Don't over think it. A number one of us could turn this team around given the current roster, the cap room and future assets...

Can't do much better than this in my mind...

QB Baker Mayfield*
RB Derrius Guice*
WR Corey Coleman
WR Josh Gordon
WR DJ Moore*
TE David Njoku
LT Joe Thomas
LG Joel Bitonio
C JC Tretter
RG Kevin Zeitler
RT Shon Coleman


DE Myles Garrett
DT Larry Ogunjobi
DT Danny Shelton
DE Emmanuel Ogbah
LB Jamie Collins
LB Joe Schobert
LB Christian Kirksey
CB Jason McCourty
SS Derrick Kindred
FS Minkah Fitzpatrick*
CB Kyle Fuller#

I could get behind that. I might move McCourty to FS and leave Fitz at corner though.

Browns claim wide receiver Larry Pinkard from Jacksonville

Updated 5:56 PM; Posted 5:55 PM

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/02/browns_claim_wide_receiver_lar.html



CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns claimed wide receiver Larry Pinkard off of waivers on Monday. Pinkard was waived by Jacksonville on Friday.

Pinkard was originally signed by Green Bay as an undrafted free agent out of Old Dominion in 2015. He appeared in four games with Jacksonville last season, including their game against the Browns. He has one career catch for five yards.

The 6-foot, 196-pound Pinkard caught 160 passes for 2,338 yards and 25 touchdowns while at Old Dominion. He has also spent time on Green Bay's practice squad.

Never heard of him, but we need the help there if he's capable.

WOOHOO We have a replacement for Kenny Britt

And for a fraction of the cost!

Don't dismiss DeShone Kizer from Browns QB discussion

http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-brown...o-start-in-2018

As the scouting combine draws near, DeShone Kizer finds himself in a situation familiar to several recent Cleveland Browns quarterbacks.

It’s life in what has annually turned into "Browns Season" -- that time of Browns excitement between the Super Bowl and training camp.

This is the time of year when the next great discovery dominates the discussion, when the players who will be on the team in the future are far more important than the players already on the team.

The best thing Kizer can do? Ignore it -- every bit of it.

Because during Browns Season, talk of the draft and free agency dominates. Which means the quarterback who started 15 games last season is forgotten.

In some ways, it’s understandable. The Browns did finish last season winless. But it’s probably not wise to dismiss Kizer’s chances of keeping the starting job in 2018.

He earned that chance.

Kizer endured a miserable rookie season, and one of the things he said after the last game was that he would be remembered as the quarterback of an 0-16 team.

Technically, he was correct. But there were many contributors to the record.

Kizer experienced what many before him had endured: the Cleveland Browns quarterback meat grinder. No team grinds them up and spits them out faster.

Kizer had his issues, and to his credit he’ll admit to them. A completion percentage of 53.6 is not adequate for an NFL starting quarterback, and 22 interceptions is too many.

Kizer never hid from those statistics; he kept saying the right things and doing his best to improve. But his climb uphill was as steep as Mount Everest. The Browns were a team, according to their own coach, that needed to be perfect to win, and nobody could disagree with that take.

There was an overall lack of talent, a team teardown of great magnitude, no real threats at receiver. It added up to a season in which whatever could go wrong did go wrong. It was so bad that GM Sashi Brown was fired for doing everything he said he would do: tear down the team, go young, build with cap room and draft picks, and point to the 2018 and 2019 seasons as the turnaround.

Kizer had to survive a rookie season in the midst of this hurricane.

But as he starts to prepare for his second season, he has some advantages.

First, Kizer has played. He’s gone through the rookie struggles. Boy, has he ever. He knows now what he didn’t know when he walked into the building as an eager rookie. That is a benefit. It can’t get worse, can it?

Second, Kizer got better late in the season. There were mistakes, but in his last game, Kizer played his best game. He had the Browns on the doorstep of their first win but was done in by a dropped pass at the 10-yard line in the final minutes. The overall effort and heart were more than impressive and gave Kizer something to build on.

Third, Kizer still has the size, arm strength and skills that prompted the Browns to draft him in the second round. He was thrown to every wolf in North America, but he lasted the season. Had he not been benched a game for throwing interceptions, he’d have been the first quarterback since Tim Couch in 2001 to start all 16 games for the Browns in the post-expansion/post-1999 era. That’s an achievement.

Finally, Kizer’s attitude was excellent. He showed up early and stayed late. He never stopped working, never stopped trying to be better. He was accountable, didn’t complain and stayed true to the team. Talent eventually shows; attitude can’t be faked. Kizer has a good one.

He will have to deal with the reality of the Browns adding two quarterbacks, one via the draft and one via free agency. But Hue Jackson has been steadfast in saying the Browns will play the best guy. Kizer will be given the chance to show he is the best guy, and his chances should not be dismissed. Players often make great strides between their rookie year and second season.

Kizer has the chance to work on his game in the offseason, and he’ll start with the edge of a year’s experience with the team.

He deserves the chance to go out and win the job.

One of the oldest adages in sports is that competition either breaks or brings out the best in players. How Kizer comes out of this Browns Season is up to him.

If he betters himself and earns the starting spot for the 2018 opener, the Browns will be just fine.

Can't say I disagree with this article.

Kizer was fed to the meat grinder. Can't say I feel sorry for him, because there's plenty of NFL QBs who sit and wait for their chance and never get it. Kizer got his right away.



And as this article says, what Kizer has to do, is take that experience of the 2017, and grow from it. He's seen what many QBs haven't. He's shown toughness that we haven't seen here in awhile.

I really liked the guy despite being let down all the time. And I'm definitely rooting for him.

But we do have to bring in a QB number 1, and we do have to bring in a Vet. That's the nature of the business and competition. And I think Kizer knows that.

What he's gotta do is focus on what he can control (and that's getting better) and not worry about the other stuff. Clean up the mechanics, watch the film, continue to learn the game, and he might be a good QB someday.

He's already shown he can go out there, give it his best shot, and take a beating week after week, and that impressed me more than what I've seen from many Browns QBs as of late

I'd agree with the article if Kizer's main weakness was not below average accuracy.

Yeah, I like Kizer. He tried hard last year and he was durable. I can live w/his poor decision making because I think he can improve that. But, it's hard to get past the accuracy issues and how slow he is at reading coverages.

Those are my two most important qb attributes and he is lacking in both.

I haven't given up on him, but I think it would be a serious mistake to pass on drafting a qb w/the first pick this year.

He has a real OC this season, we'll see if he improves with better play calling and playing to his strengths.

If I was Kizer, I'd be on the phone with Case Keenum, finding out where he went for the VR training he got.

There dismissed. He will be on the roster. Hey what if all go n throw silly money at FA QB n we decide not to n the couple we do we lose to some.

So if that happens guess what? Kizer will go into training camp as the #1 QB. Its a shame cause odds will be that said drafted QB should win. Maybe Kizer starts a couple of games???

But it will be how so many overall#1 QBs get drafted then become the starter n we will be mired in another .500 or worse season.
Jmho.

J/C

I don't rule out Kizer. He has issues to be worked out but the way the coaching staff handled the kid was horrible. We didn't give him any help on the chalkboard.

Kizer's issues are his own. Hue is a well-respected teacher of qbs who draws praise from around the league. It's too bad that we have posters on this board that refuse to let the anti-Hue agenda end.

Well respected by who? You and very few others...

I don't think anyone would say with a serious face that Hue is a QB teacher anymore...

Calling 60% pass plays with a struggling rookie QB is more a sink or swim strategy than it is teaching...

well respected by me also. 60 throws, play calling us a load of crap n you sort of lose the debate rught from the get go. You see Kizer was taught by Hue to be better in the pocket, be better in his decision...really better in EVERYTHING except for his accuracy which is disfunction that Kizer has on his own.
Kizer was far better the end of the season as opposed to the beginning.
Hue is a good coach for our new QB.
Sorry Vers n I trumps your he threw 60% of the plays so he must be bad. Uve never read that anywhere. Actually Kizer didnot succeed cause he was very inaccurate and that was not Hue's fault.

feel a lot better about Kizer if he was not making the same mistakes in week 17 he was making in week 1.

Just not sure he can process post snap reads quickly enough.

I agree with all of that.

Some people on here view Hue the way far left voters view Trump. If he did it, it's wrong. Those viewpoints have nothing to do with football. They are merely spewing hate whether it's warranted or not.

Hue-bris did so well with all the QBs they made him hire a real OC.

Man you guys... can't you see it was both parties fault? Kizer sucked on his own, Hue did little to nothing to help with that and/or his confidence. It's not JUST Kizer, it's not JUST Hue's fault... they both clearly had a bad encounter and situation. They failed each other.

Well, with QB's you always hope accuracy is a strength.

Hue-bris choose him to start.

Well he had been provided with such great options! lmao

You can try to do a bait and switch all you like. The facts are that Kizer isn't accurate and processes the information slowly. He simply lacks the ability to read D's post snap. But let's change the subject and pretend that makes a point.

Josh was 0fer under Hue-bris, but did OK for the jets. People want him back this season.

I would say that Hue could have switched up his system and play calling to have better used McCown.

You do realize that some of us who want to see Hue get another year don't believe he's a perfect HC, right?

Wouldn't it have benefited Hue-bris and the team had he done so?

Browns Make it Clear They Want Josh Gordon to Stay With Team for the Long Haul

http://www.12up.com/posts/5990615-browns...aul?a_aid=36534

If the Cleveland Browns are ever going to turn things around -- or at least win at least one or two games in a season -- they're going to need a significant infusion of talent across the board.


Fans in The Land actually have something to look forward to this offseason, as they have two top-four draft picks and the most cap space in the league by a long shot. While a complete roster makeover may be exactly what this franchise needs, head coach Hue Jackson knows of some talented players on this current Browns team that he wants to stick around.

It only took five games to win the coach's heart, but it looks like prodigal wide receiver Josh Gordon has done so-- Jackson wants Flash to be around for the duration.


Marc Sessler
✔
@MarcSesslerNFL

Hue-bris Jackson: We want Josh Gordon to be a Cleveland Brown for a long time.
9:23 AM - Feb 28, 2018

210
62 people are talking about this




Not only did the veteran running back underperform last season, but he also butted heads with his head coach, ​calling him out for a lack of touches. Considering his sub-par production in 2017, the team has no reason to put up with him.

Marc Sessler
✔
@MarcSesslerNFL

Hue-bris Jackson noncommittal on Isaiah Crowell. Says they’re working through the process with the FA running back. #Browns
9:22 AM - Feb 28, 2018

2
See Marc Sessler's other Tweets

The Browns face plenty of crucial decisions as they gear up for the future, but it sounds like Jackson has his feet planted firmly on the ground when it comes to addressing the past.

I voted for Trump and think HUE COULD NOT HAVE HANDLED KIZER WORSE!!!! So there goes that theory .. *L* ...

I could care less how well respected Hue is (a well deserved rep he’s earned as an offensive innovator and offensive mind .. not as a HC or HC/OC) or who wants to bury their heads up his ass ... hes a HUMAN BEING and he made a MAJOR MISTAKE IN HIS HANDLING OF KIZER ...

Sorry if the FACTS don’t correlate with some folks and there myth about Hue and how he handled the kid ... i seriously doubt he could have handled him any worse ... it seemed to me like Hue made his decisions by trying to figure out what was the worst way to handle Kizer ....

PLEASE EXPLAIN to me exactly what Hue did to help the kid? .. cause i can give MULTIPLE EXAMPLES of how Hue handled it PITTIFULLY at best ...

I agree with you on how Hue handled Kizer, but do you think swapping Hue for the best QB coach/playcaller last season would've made enough difference to allow us to not spend such huge offseason assets ($ and picks) on the QB position? Tough to say with any certainty, but I say no.

Like many, I'm rooting for Kizer, but I can't count on Kizer. The guy showed a bunch of heart and the attitude that you want from your starting QB. He also has the physical skills. I'll be rooting for him hard. But his game is nowhere near a place where you can count on him.

No a good HC and QB guru would simple not start Kizer, and made sure that he wouldn't start the season hopping BO wouldpan out and having Kessler has plan B.

Simple has that, Kizer sucked and Hue was even worst because he started Kizer, kept him and made sure he was throwing 2 in every 3 plays...

Interesting because nobody in Cleveland would say with a serious face that Holmgren is a QB guru, but apparently for some its ok to say that from Hue....

I had absolutely no problem with starting kizer, but I thought Hue would do the normal grooming process with Kizer. Go 60% run to 40% pass ratio and give him a lot of simple throws. Use bootlegs and rollouts to cut his reads down in half.

I didnt expect Hue to go 35% run to 65% pass. Its just mind boggling. Honestly the only thing I can figure is he wanted Kizer to fail so he could gain more power in personnel decisions. Its the only thing that makes any sense at all with how he approached this thing.

I said before, during and after the season .... regardless of what Kizer did GOOD or BAD if u love one of the top QB’s .. u draft them ...

ROOKIE YEARS are FOOLS GOLD more often that not when a QB plays really good ...

And make no mistake about this ... i am not blaming Hue for Kizer’s problems ... NOT AT ALL ...

I’m just pointing out that Hue handled Kizer HORRIBLY ... i’m not sure how he could have been handled worse ...

Just curious ...

Why do u think its not a bad idea to start a rookie QB who everyone including himself said he should have stood in school another year cause he’s NOT READY ...

He wasn’t ready mechanics wise or mentally .. NOT EVEN CLOSE ... i don’t get why u think starting him was a good idea? ... please explain ...

And that is at the bottom of my list of reasons Hue handled him like CRAP ...

As crazy as that sounds...it's what I find myself thinking as well.

A good friend of mine was miffed at the start of the year claiming that Kizer should sit and Hue should tailor the offense to Kessler...warts and all. Top end expectation would be 4 wins...but Kessler could manage a game with the right game plan. Not WIN games necessarily...but manage them...and maybe eek out a win here and there. That sounded crazy to me in August...and seemed the exact right thing to have been done when Hue first benched Kizer.

Kessler was supposed to take steps forward over the offseason but didn't. He was the 1st guy that "should've" started over Kizer, but it just didn't work out that way. BO was the other guy that "should've" started over Kizer, but he got shipped off. That was a personnel mgmt fail, and enough has come out regarding Sashi vs Hue (that I REALLY don't want to rehash) that muddies the water, and keeps me from putting blame for that on Hue. I just don't know for sure to pin that one on Hue.
And there was Hogan...

So we were left with Kizer, and he started.

I can't see Hue setting his QB up for failure. Hue's ass was on the line too.

Plus, he would be one rare asshat to be like that in the NFL. He'd never had risen to where he is now if he were of that ilk.

Im learning a lot on who knows football n who thinks they know football.

I will give u all a clue Hue knows QB...the fact that some of you think u know more

Sorry like most of you all a lot but I aint going to bother to argue with you all. Instead I have chosen to just shut up sit back n laugh at you all...

I see your point...but his decisions led to a winless season nonetheless..and he somehow still kept his job. Spilled milk at this point for sure.

Absolutely.

Oooops

Green is good, red is bad:



https://twitter.com/MikeClayNFL/status/971849510740746240

I think there CB grade for the Browns is inflated due to a scheme that protected the CBs at the cost of everyone else.

Some of those don't make sense...

Look at us vs some of the other teams for QB. Keep in mind, the tweet says this is pre-FA ranks (as things officially are right now).

How are the Jets and 'zona worse off than us at QB? If those guys are worse off, then why is Minny rated so high (aren't they losing all of their QBs this season as well)?

The chart looks bogus as can be.

Not much about Crow .... wonder what the silence means ... i hope he’s gone ....

I read rumors that Tampa Bay was a spot for him to land

I don't know about that, but it does leave out a lot of information, like on what it was based. I am sure someone else could come up with a chart almost opposite.

I'm curious how the market is going to value crow given he clearly wants paid.

Agreed that some of the ranking don't make sense. But on the whole I think its a good snap shot.

To answer your questions about QB the Jets are probably worse off because the Jet and Zona don't have any QBs. The Vikings I don't know...but 1.8 isn't really a high ranking it could just be a projection based on the quality of the surrounding pieces of their passing game.

Browns O:

QB-0.3
RB-1.4
WR-1.5
TE-2.6
OL-3.9

The offense and particularly the passing game was the weakspot....i disagree w/ their RB ranking because i think they were held back through underuse.


Browns D:

INT-1.7
EDGE-3.0
LB-2.7
CB-2.7
S-0.4

I think the CB ranking are off, i think the scheme tried hard to prevent the CBs from being beat deep and they didn't make plays.
I thought the INT could have been better if they played Ogun more snaps.

But on the whole I think their areas of weakness match-up.

It's position grades of every unit with UFAs removed from their grade. NYJ is worse because they don't have McCown nor does Arizona have Palmer. With 90% of our talent signed, we probably get a big boost compared to most teams.

My guess after this afternoon's flurry:
QB goes from 0.3 up to ~2.0
WR goes from 1.5 up to ~2.5

I think the trading frenzy supports my belief that the team has a decent, youthful foundation. Dorsey & Co see/know that the team is young - maybe even too young - but has a lot of potential with solid to really-good players but is/was missing experience, play-makers and a QB. They are willing to sacrifice draft picks for established players and - amazingly prior to FA - attacked three of our weakest positions.

We still have the FA period and (9) picks (?) in this draft...we don't necessarily need (9) rookies...let alone the potential (12) we started out with. I don't think they are finished trading just yet.

Rumors swirling around Suh, Honey Badger, Earl Thomas.

*Rumors are strongest around Earl Thomas

Several reporters are saying that there is at least one more "big" deal in the works that could get done before Monday.

who would be a good fit our of these 3?

Who could you do without out of that group?

Any one else you think that is out there that we should trade one of our picks for?

Well I don't want Suh but either one of the other 2 would be nice ...

For me it's easily The Honey Badger.

-Thomas is in the last year of his contract. Unless an extension is a part of the trade, I have reservations. Although I liked the Jamie Collins's trade. We'd have first rights to an extension.

- Suh's contract is expensive and he is 31.

-The Honey Badger is (1) very good, (2) 25 years old, and (3) signed through 2021. Oh, and Joe Banner passed on him for Leon McFadden.

Can he play FS?

The Honey Badger or Suh?

I'm wondering if Suh will be a byproduct of the Shelton trade. I kinda hope not.

That "big" deal could have been the Shelton trade.

I could see us going after another 3, but I would imagine that it would be in the draft or with a minor FA.

Yes.

I think there is one more coming with us acquiring a player.

I agree. Some are saying maybe Suh. Although his contract is insane so he'd probably have to be willing to restructure. Not for less $ but differently spread out.

Lol Suh at FS would be hilarious.

He'd get burnt 99% of the time, but the one time he landed a hit full speed on a WR theyd be out for the season

Would love Honey Badger!

The Suh rumors don't make sense. If the Dolphins cut or trade him they would have $22.2 million in dead money on the books for 2018 (while only saving $3.9 million) and $13.1 million in dead money from Suh in 2019.

I'm glad to read this. I don't want that guy. He's absolute slime.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe I have seen him in the headlines as a problem child since he left Detroit.

He tried to rip Delhomme's head off, literally.





Looks like he's in a fins uni here.




https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nf...miami/96066168/

Legarrette Blount doesn't think much of him either.



Pond scum. JMHO

I don't see that as a "big" deal. A 2-down player whose snap count diminished as the year went on. I think this trade was oversold by Fox as a blockbuster.

Yeah, but around here he's a big name. That makes it a "big" deal.

A "Familiar" Name. Lol

That makes him a big deal to many Browns fans.

You see here how some simply can't wrap their heads around letting him go, most with absolutely no idea what he contributes to the team or what his liabilities are. All they know is it's Danny Shelton. A player who was one of our recent first round picks and has been made a "big deal" about over the past couple of years. There's two big handfuls of players of whom those same fans couldn't care less if they're released. They're not "familiar" enough with them.

Look at the fans who are upset that we've given up on and have let Kizer go. They hate to give up hope on these "familiar" names regardless if they're helping the team or not. Browns fans cling to whatever scrap of hope they can latch onto. Perceived starters are at the top of that list.

In case some of you forgot how huge Myles is, he's in one of those Jr Reporter videos on the official website:

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-cen...fc-73af91d11c9f

Welcome to the gun show!

I agree. Many time our fandom gets in the way of seeing things as they are.