DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Would you accept Cousins, Sequon & Minkah (Or OT, DE, WR, etc.)

I'm nervous we'll back up the Brinks truck to sign Cousins and pass on a franchise QB @ 1. The arguments for signing an established QB will be many, and the temptation to use the draft to build capital, add weapons, and round out the defense will be strong. But I want "our guy" not someone jaded by the system, and maybe somewhat of a "me" guy. I want talent with upside, not someone who has maxed out at middle of the pack. I want someone young who can grow with this young team, someone who can help build a new dynasty.

Of course we could grab someone later in the draft but there probably won't be much left after the first two rounds and any QB taken is automatically getting 2nd, or more likely 3rd string reps anyway. Hue has a year invested in Kiser, so if you're looking for a guy to sit and learn behind Cousins, Kiser is it. Hogan has a history with Dorsey and knows the system.

So would you be happy with Cousins, Kizer & Hogan?

Cousins Kizer and Hogan?

I'd prefer Smith over Cousins but I can live with it, Kizer eh.. and Hogan? It's irrelevant that Hogan knows Dorsey, and what system does Dorsey have that Hogan knows? It's Hue's system that Hogan needs to know.

Yes, Hue's is the system Hogan knows.

To me, Cousins brings a different scenario than Alex Smith. Because he's still 29, we could safely sign him to a 6 year contract and negate the need to draft a QB early. Smith would be more of a "bridge QB" at 33, plus he would cost us some draft capital (2nd round?). If we ended up with Cousins, Barkley, Fitzpatrick, and best avail CB, WR, and LT in the 2nd round, I feel we'd be well on our way to at least 7-8 wins next year. That's a positive step in the right direction for a change.

Agreed.. and I think it's disturbing that neither Kizer or Hogan thrived much less showed progression in Hue's system. Was it the system or do neither of those two have any talent / are not capable of progressing?

cal, if our guys are absolutely convinced there is a franchise guy at the top of this draft I do not want to spend a ton of dough on cousins or Smith. I would try to sign a 2nd tier guy, draft our guy at 1 and the fs at 4. With our next four picks focus on corners, receivers and maybe an o lineman.

I do believe that our #1 pick is going to have to beat out an improved Kiser who is going to make it a real competition.

I would because Cousins is a proven commodity in this league. I find it hilarious and somewhat ridiculous that last year we were all told that the QB class of the past two years wasn't great (Goff/Wentz and 2017 class) and that the 2018 class was going to yield potential "generational starters". Watson who was freefalling to what some predicted could be the late 1st or early 2nd round eventually went at 12 and prior to his injury was blowing everybody away. Chiefs fans believe Mahomes will be a superstar and we all know where both Goff and Wentz have taken their teams. NOW, here we are and people are doubting all of these "potential generational starters" of 2018 because, surprise surprise...they didn't live up to expectation both on or off the field or there is an injury concern.

It's a total crap shoot.

Assuming JT returns...go with the proven starter in Cousins and take Barkley and Fitzpatrick at 1 & 4, but also take Mayfield or Josh Allen further down (trade back up if you need to). Cousins gets the 4 year deal where he can work with the rookie and then you have Cousins, Kizer and Mayfield/Allen or even Rudolph or Ferguson (is he eligible?) much further down in the draft could be had. Let them learn from Cousins and eventually one will take over. Given all of their ages they will still be mid-20s by the time one of them takes the reigns from Cuzzo. This also buys you time if a truly great comes out of college (Fromm looked pretty damn good against Oklahoma!) or Will Grier (WV).

Alex Smith could be your starter on a shorter term deal (2-3 years?). I would take that too as it would be a trade of probably a 2nd rounder + a 3rd or 4th. We have the picks to make it happen. Along with Dorsey and Reid (who can't win a playoff game), Smith has helped stabilize a rocky franchise and made them very competitive.

Kirk is 29, I would still be drafting a QB. If you end up with a Rivers Brees situation, oh well.

A Rivers/Brees situation would be welcome...

It would be welcome ALL DAY LONG ...

I personally don't like Kurt Cousins as a thought of being a Browns Qb, but, I didn't like Brian Hoyer either.

No, but I'd be perfectly happy with Cousins, Kizer and an early second round QB draftee.

If the Browns came away with Cousins, Barkley and Minkah I'd be ecstatic.

You know what you're getting with a FA QB.

A rookie QB is rolling the dice.

I'd sign Kirk Cousins if he's not franchise tagged, but I'd be very worried that the contract would turn into a Joe Flacco albatross.

Any team that signs Kirk Cousins will be giving him a ton of money. How much money a team is willing to offer will not be the thing that decides the situation. With that said, we will clearly be among the worst choices for Cousins. Any team with cap space and a need for a QB will want him. The Jets, Vikings (if they don't retain Keenum for whatever reason), Washington, Bills, Broncos, Jaguars, and Cardinals will be in the running for him.

Of those teams only the Jaguars and Cardinals would need to finagle the cap to make it work. The Jaguars can cut Blake Bortles and Chris Ivory and have plenty of money. The Cardinals would have enough if they cut Phil Dawson, Andy Lee, and Adrian Peterson along Carson Palmer retiring (and Larry Fitzgerald???).

I'd put every team listed above ahead of us if the money is equal. We are perennially unstable, losers, with a horrible owner, and a head coach who has almost no job security. Kirk Cousins signing with us is a complete pipe dream.

Figure on $30 mil a year for Cousins. That wouldn't kill us like Baltimore as long as we don't get cute and back load it. If we allow the bigger part of the hit to suck up cap space the first year, we'll be fine on the cap.

I’d rather have Smith for 17mil.

Smith for $17 million with a QB at #1 or Cousins for $30 million with a non-QB picked at #1 and #4?

With a qb at #1 or #4. We need that regardless of the vet we bring on, if any.

I don't think we would sign a $30 million QB (Kirk Cousins) and draft a QB in the first round. That seems like a complete waste of resources as we would be expecting Cousins to start at least the length of the rookie's contract.

Don't forget we'd probably sign Smith to a longer deal if we are trading for him. He's still cheaper than Cousins, but I would expect $20 mil plus a year.

I agree, but it'd be year to year with Alex Smith. If we drafted a QB #1 we'd, most likely, want him to play in year two.

For $30 mil a year, Washington can keep Cousins.

That's the thing, it's what we'd want, but he has leverage. He can say no and the Chiefs would have to cut him. We'd have to make it attractive enough for him to say yes or live with the one year deal and tag him the next year if he goes lights out or if we want to trade him and get the investment back.

That is certainly doable but if we could find a decent contract that is agreeable to both sides, he'd be easier to trade.

Wasn't Smith's contract in KC 36mil?

No, it’s 17 million for the 2018 season and 3.6 million in bonus already guaranteed and already paid by KC.

My answer to the thread title is absolutely. Cousins has proved to be a viable starter. This allows the team to add the other parts and begin a quest for winning seasons. Even with Smith, the team would be able to grow and progress while the search for the long term guy continues naturally, instead of an expedited process.

A QB must be drafted, and even if we do sign either guy. Barkley, IMO would help, but not as much as Minkah. If it were my decision, I would take either of the two FA QBs, and still draft one of the top QBs at #1.

The FA period is going to be huge this year. We have been carrying a lot of cap space for a few years now. Now is the time to spend some of it. There is a good young nucleus on this team now. In the past that has not been the situation. We've tried to buy a winning team. Saschi had a good idea, his implementation was what was lacking. Dorsey has the tools to complete the rebuild without breaking the bank, and having many young players on the roster with experience, helps for the long term.

Bottom line is, a base has been built, now is the time to bring in high quality FAs and complete the team. QB is the catalyst, if we could land a quality FA, it would give any high drafted QB the proper time to develop.

It's easy to love taking Cousins when you believe taking a QB #1 overall is a possibility. But I don't believe it is. If we sign Cousins it's long term for a big contract and in the minds of the FO QB will no longer be an issue, other than deciding who to cut, Hogan or Kessler.

j/c:

I don't think Cousins would sign w/a team who is constantly firing people and a fan base who is crying for even more firings.

I'm okay w/that because I think Rosen is the real deal. Drafting him and Fitz, while keeping Hue and adding them to guys like Myles, Kirksey, Bitonio, and Ogbah will propel this team towards future successes.

I do not see the Browns going after Cousins. I almost expect the Browns to trade for Alex Smith and allow him to start for a year maybe two, while still drafting Rosen or Darnold. This would be my ideal scenario.

My primary concern would be the contract Cousins is anticipated to receive. It could negatively impact the Browns long-term success should Cousins turn out to be a guy that can "just" get you to the playoffs and the team passed on taking a QB this year.

To answer your original question, however, I would not be unhappy with Cousins, Barkley and Fitzpatrick.

IMO.. Thats Dorsey's FIRST priority.. convincing FA veterans to sign with Cleveland.

That may be your ideal scenario, but the decision is ultimately on the player. I think KC have enough respect for Alex Smith that they'll allow him to pick his destination, and I also think Alex has the gumption to refuse to accept a trade.

The idea that he'll come to Cleveland, get beat up on an 0-16 team for a year or two before being let go as a 35 or 36 year old free agent so we can insert our rookie? Good luck selling him on that.

He's likely going to get offers from more win-now teams like Washington(If Cousins leaves), Denver, New York (Jets), Arizona and Jacksonville, all of whom will offer to actually build around him long-term without having to compete with a #1 rookie QB.

I'm not the biggest fan of Alex Smith, but in his mind, I don't see a guy coming off 4,000 passing yards, 26 touchdowns to 5 interceptions, from a "disappointing" 10-6 season, is going to accept an 0-16 team wanting him as a stopgap. I'd bet he would be downright insulted.

If we want a stopgap for the #1 overall rookie, it isn't going to be one of the top available QB's who are going to command a high paid, multi-year deal from teams who'll actually build around them.

J/C

As for the OP topic, I'd love to add Cousins, Barkley and Fitzpatrick. That's an incredible start to the rebuilding of this roster that will immediately make an incredible difference on both sides of the ball.

I might even suggest that those three additions alone would make the Browns an instant playoff contender. I'd take that in a heartbeat.

No thanks to Barkley. Like Hue said, anyone could have run through that hole. I think if they somehow sign cousins you still draft a QB #1, take Fitzpatrick at 4.

I don't want either of the scenarios listed, I want to draft a QB, the best one.

I doubt Cousins would sign here unless he got a verbal commitment that we wouldn't draft a QB in the first round (and breaking verbal commitments is bad bad business).

A QB at 1 means Kirk having to look over his shoulder, and the possibility of fans chanting to see their new toy at the first signs of trouble.


He'll have plenty of suitors, and I don't think he'll want one that is drafting a QB at pick number 1.

This isn't a Drew Brees/Alex Smith situation. He's a FA. He has a choice

This is the way I'm leaning as well. The worse case scenario is that you eventually have to trade away a QB. I like that a whole lot better than not having one.

You don't have to start a young QB until you think he's ready. If one QB fails or gets injured, you have the other QB.

Picking up a Vet QB that's lame and missing in the draft with the #1 pick is something that would devastate the franchise.

We need to hedge our QB bets as much as possible.

I don't understand. Cousins will sign something along the lines of a 6 year, $160M contract, and that's a conservative estimate. The largest contract in the NFL is Stafford's $158m, and Cousins will eclipse that.

We're then going to drop the #1 pick, and a further $30+ million, on his back-up?

Cousins is a bonafide franchise quarterback. Whoever takes him is not then drafting a quarterback, much less using the most valuable selection in the draft. It just won't happen.

I'm fine with the idea of not taking Barkley. There is plenty of great talent later, even if it's only round two. However, the pick will just end up being the top tackle. It won't be a quarterback.

I get the desire for the Browns to do everything possible to find the guy, but it is an irrational approach.

In a hearbeat. Cousins is the kind of professional you want. Studious, hard-working, constantly trying to get better. Have hime mentor Kizer for 4 years.

Barkley gives you a bellcow running back, and Fitzpatrick ubgrades on of your biggest weaknesses.

Great, if that pans out, teams will be lining up to trade for the QB that got drafted #1 overall and didn't get a chance to prove himself.

The other option is that he gets beat out by the rookie and another team trades for Cousins who has already proven himself. If we structure that contract so we take the early cap hit, he's more than trade-able.

If Cousins is weary of his back up then I don't feel he's the right guy for us.

And I think whenever the starter has a bad game he'll be hearing the chants for the back-up. Our QB is going to need thick skin.

Starting QBs don't mentor guys that will eventually replace them. It just happened with Brady and Garoppolo. Favre wanted nothing to do with Rodgers, Montana and Young, etc. The backup QBs mentioned in the previous sentences had the want to (which I think Kizer also has) and good coaching.

Also, Kizer only has three more years left on his contract.