DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Nature (Peer-reviewed scholarly scientific journal): Chromosome 13 and Chromosome 14 Linked to Same-Sex Attraction

From the abstract:


Link

This should spark some interesting theological debates.

I can also see some horrifying consequences of gene therapy due to this, too.

I had always believed that sexual orientation was a “learned preference”. That you’re not born gay. You become gay based on your life experiences.

Separately, I’ve also believed that men who spoke with a lisp have an extremely high tendency to be gay.

My first opinion above radically changed when I had a son. Adopted from Japan at 3 months old.

From the moment he could speak, he spoke with a distinct lisp. I used to mention it all the time to friends who would say: “NAHH…Relax...he’s not gay.”

My son is now in his mid-20s and has always been strictly gay.

Which is fine, his sexual preference makes no difference to me. Only his happiness.

So now I believe:

1) You can absolutely be born with a strong disposition for homosexiuality, and
2) Still, I believe men who speak with a lisp have a very high tendency to be gay.

Maybe some sort of physiological/communication (brain) connection.

Theological discussion?

Congregational churches like mine, are completely accepting without regard to sexual preference/orientation. Along with the other usual stuff: race, disability, economic standing, etc...

Awesome to see you were open minded and loving in the face of such a blow to your previous perceptions. Good man. Good father.

I echo Portland's statement rocky.

Interesting info Rocket. I've had gay friends for 30 years now, likely longer, but I didn't know they were gay. Quite a few have said they've known their whole lives - this may be the explaination why.

Nooo Wayyyyy!!!!! Roy... Mooooore wants a recount.

I'm of the belief that you're probably born homosexual. I've known a handful of acquaintances who I always had inkling about ... but they never came out until way later.

I also believe that certain things in one's life can lead them to be homosexual. So it can be genetic and learned.

I'm accepting and believe everyone has the right to be happy.

Here is my struggle with that.. what else are you "born to be"?

Is it genetic that you are compassionate? Angry? Violent? Intelligent? Hard working? Lazy? Fat? Vain? Greedy? Loving? Alcoholic? Neat? Musical? Late sleeper?

All of those things and many more we have, for eons, ascribed to ones upbringing and personal decisions.. but homosexuality, that... we have embarked on an effort to prove is genetic...

So I am of the belief that there are either a lot of other things we are genetically predisposed to be... or that homosexuality has a large measure of choice in it. I believe it to be disingenuous to say we are free to be whatever kind of person we want in all respects.. except that one.

They’ve shown genetic links to alcoholism and addiction.
I think people are born with certain predispositions. Kids that can play the piano at age 4. How do you explain that?
From a personal perspective, I was artistic as a kid. It was recognized early. In the first grade I was put into classes for gifted kids. Other artistic kids, musically gifted kids, kids that were reading at advanced levels, etc. These things can be fostered but there’s something more to it than that. It’s a gift.
As to being angry or loving or other such personality traits I do think we’re all wired differently. I had twins as neighbors when I was a kid. One was sweet and quiet. The other was a hell raiser. Same parents. Same egg, same sperm. Different people.
So yes, I think homosexuality is something you can be born into. That said I think some people can find their way there through non gene based routes too.

j/c

By the age of, perhaps 4, I wondered about my son. He showed certain "supposed traits" of what people associate with gays. (I hope I said that correctly)

As he got older, more and more so called "typical traits".

Like what, you ask? Well, his friends were girls. That's who he hung out with. That's just one thing.

H.S., I told my wife "He's gay." She said no way.

College, he moved out of the dorm after his freshman year and moved into a house. Smart move financially - but one I struggled with for a bit. Til I saw how much he was saving as opposed to living in the dorm. Hey, split a house with 4 others? It saves money.

Still thought he was gay, but he'd never said so. Not to us, anyway.

23 years old. October. He was home. Told us. I simply said "I thought so, a long time ago. No biggy. Love you. Now I'm going out hunting. Have a safe trip back." (I was going out hunting anyway).

He remarked to my wife (his step mom) "Wow, I didn't think dad would take it that well." She said "Well, he's thought that for a long time."

Yeah, I think people are born gay.

I think genes predispose people to alcoholism as well. It's well know some are more predisposed to diseases as well - based on nothing but their genes.


Many times, in the past, I 'judged' based on sexual preference, thinking it was a choice. I don't feel that way now.

Portland, I generally agree with you.. I just find irony when we say kids are born equal.. they aren't. Some are born with varying degrees of skill/aptitude at certain things.. people always say kids from Ivy League parents go to Ivy League schools because of the connections, the money, etc.. isn't it possible they are just genetically smarter than other kids?

I hate to get up in the morning, I always have. And I'm not just talking the normal "don't want to get out of bed" that most people feel first thing in the morning, I'm talking much more serious than that. It doesn't matter if I go to bed at 9:00 pm or 1:00 am.. if my alarm goes off at 6:30 am, I'm hitting snooze 8 times and probably still sleeping through it. I've tried everything, multiple alarms, alarms across the room, really loud alarms, etc.. nothing seems to work (at least consistently)...

So a couple years ago I did some research, found a study where a group had categorized people into 3 groups.. the largest and most common group (I'll call "normal" just to use a word) can get up to an alarm clock at basically any time of the morning, even on very little sleep, they can also stay up late if they need to, and they can function fairly well. The second group wakes up most mornings even without an alarm clock, fairly early, like 5:30 or 6:00.. doesn't matter what time they went to bed, they just naturally wake up early and they are eager and focused first thing in the morning.. downside is a lot of these people struggle to stay up past 10:00 even on a weekend or when they have nothing to do the next day. The third group is me.. struggles to get up in the morning regardless of what time they went to sleep, but they can stay up late, they focus better at night (late at night).... for years people thought I was "lazy" because I would sleep through morning appointments, be late for work, etc.. I was doing everything in my power to get up and nothing worked consistently.. I've just accepted the fact that there is little I can do to change it, I don't schedule morning appointments.. and if you need something done by me that's really detailed and requires great focus, the best time to get me to do it is probably between about 11:00 pm and 2:00 am... that's when I'm most wide awake and focused. I don't know if its "genetic" but I know nothing I have tried to do to change it has worked.

Glad to hear someone else, successful, has that issue. My issue is worse in the winter, no doubt.

I think back to when my daughter was a baby. I'd get up at 6, get me ready, wake her up at 6:45, get her changed and dressed, downstairs, feed her, then off to the babysitter, and then work.

Now? I hardly see her in the morning. Thank God she get's herself up.

Your story sounds very similar when it comes to the brother of my wife. She knew from the time he was a child that he was gay. Long before he even knew it. He's a very nice guy and a kind person. Living through such an experience gives people an insight that others simply do not have and causes us to see the truth about such matters through experience. This creates a situation where we must cast how we felt or believed about something because we witnessed it first hand.

/JC

I guess we are all just little programmed machines with no free will after all.

Or we all have different challenges to face but play the same game for the same reward. Some have it easy to win and some have it hard. Only the judge of the game will decide who earns the most crowns of victory. No matter what game gear you start the game with you still get to choose how you play it. Hopefully all can find the path to winning the game and don't just settle at being a participant who failed at overcoming their individual challenges.

To me Jesus already acknowledge that some men would be born gay but that if so they should not have sex.

“Not everyone can accept this word,” Jesus answered, “but only those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born that way; others were made that way by men; and still others live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

The term eunuchs has different meanings from one culture to another. In the lightest sense it just means men who are not attracted to women (gays) to the extreme where they have been forced to become that way due to surgical means aka castration. The final way is holy men who give up sex altogether to live in prayer and meditation.

In all cases the homosexual behavior is unacceptable. There are many behaviors we tend to be born with a predisposition towards. Violence, risk taking, meekness, cowardice, bravery, etc. It's how you live in spite of the bad things you want to do that makes you who you are. Some give in and fall prey to their weaknesses and other rise and overcome. them. Life is NOT fair but God IS. Look towards Lazarus and the rich man.

Luke 16:19-31English Standard Version (ESV)
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side.[a] The rich man also died and was buried, 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’ 27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house— 28 for I have five brothers—so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”

We all have different challenges as we face living our lives. Some have it easy and some have it harder. Only God decides what reward or punishment we will earn. All of us have our sins that we are weak to and have to fight hard every day not to give into. Being born to that weakness is not an excuse or permission to give into it. It's just your cross to bear for this very short life. It's not easy. Even Jesus had to have help bearing his cross.

The reason we form churches is not supposed to be to condemn others but to gain support for each other to overcome our sinful nature. This doesn't mean to accept a sinful way of living but to love them anyways and help them get back on the strait and narrow path. Just like I love my child but still rebuke them when they do something wrong. It's better to be rebuked in this life than to suffer punishment in the next life.

Which is more loving? To leave them alone to ruin their eternal life because you accept there is nothing you can do to save them? Or do you fight tooth and nail to save them knowing that for at least a while they may hate you for it? Each person will decide for themselves what to do and i wont judge them for it because it's between you and God.

I just won't say something that is a sin is anything but a sin. Homosexuality is a sin. Doesn't matter if it's fair or not. It is what it is. God is the one who determines what is sin or not. Not mankind. You either accept that fact and change or you don't and face the consequences of your actions later. If you don't believe in God that is up to you. Do what you want. I have done my duty to share what God had told me to.

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

I would sacrifice myself to save my kids from despair all day, everyday because I love them. Because I love them, I can't just sit and watch them suffer. If I love you as myself as Jesus commands then it should be very hard to sit still and do nothing to save you from putting yourself in jeopardy. Do it with love and kindness like Jesus did though not with judgement and thorns like mankind does.

I'm the same as you. I feel like I don't start hitting max productivity at work until after noon.

So, we have free will, but then god made it so that people had a harder time than others?

He he made gay people gay on purpose?

Man, that dude is mean.

God didn't make them gay any more than he made my sons autistic. I've always said this, if everything went according to God's plan, we'd all be sitting naked under a tree right now.

But an all knowing a God would have known Eve was going to eat the apple. So he didn’t plan for us to be sitting naked under a tree. So which was God’s plan now? Free will/eat the apple, or sit naked under the tree?

The Bible calls Jesus The Lamb of God 'slain from the foundation of the world'.

God had a plan in place if the choice went the wrong way. Obviously it did. You don't want to see me naked under a tree.

Again an all knowing God would have known the choice. So was it a plan B? Sounds to me like it was the plan all along.

Well it sure couldn’t be to sit naked under the tree. All knowing, he knew what we’d look like when we’re old.

Unless you don't get old.

Too late for me.

Do you think it's less hard for a born alcoholic to not crave beer? Maybe it's easier for diabetics to not crave sugar?

Hell maybe it's harder to just be completely normal with nothing that challenges you and leaves you completely bored with life.

The flesh is just a machine made to anchor our soul for a very very short while as a test to see if we would still love God even in hard times. You don't make pots with clay alone. You have to bake them first before they are done. Not all of the pots will make it without breaking in the fire. Even the best potters have pots that break when tested by fire. "He is the potter and we are the clay." He can mode us and make us but it's up to us if we survive the fire or break in the process.

I'm sure he could have made us into simple robots that do as they are told and are all perfect. Yet the only thing a parent wants is for their kids to love them back. A simple robot can't love you back. We were made the way we are with all our imperfections so that in spite of it all we could CHOOSE to love our creator or not.

I personally feel, as in it's not in the Bible, that he made each of us with a weakness so that at some point in our life to overcome it we would have to humble ourselves and ask him for help and find a path to accepting him. In our darkest hour we ALL come to him for help. Better to burn a little in life and be saved forever than to have it all now and burn forever for it...

Wait you calling 5:30 or 6:00 early.... rubbing my eyes. Hell the morning is almost over by then. Early is more like 3 am, and I thought normal was 4 AM with or without an alarm

My brother was born gay and so was his husband. I shared a bedroom with him growing up and he has been gay his entire life.

The problem I have with the Biblical approach of ‘we need to turn away from ‘sinful’ things is what you’re asking these people to do is to go through life without love. To go through life without intimacy. I’m sorry but I can’t believe God wants any of his creation to walk their years on this planet without human companionship and love.
This isn’t alcohol or heroin. This is a basic human need for connection with another human being. God’s love is many things. But one can’t cuddle with it on the couch after a hard day at work. One can’t look it in the eye and feel that sense of comfort and connection we only get from being in love with someone.
So if God wants this for his children he’s pretty cruel.

I'm betting DIAM and 40 aren't posting here for the fear of turning Gay.

I won’t say witch but I bet in there addled mind they’d believe your correct.
....LOL.... because 1+1=2....

Still playing spelling nazi, eh?

No, grammar nazi.

Well I would say lmao but I'm afraid you would accuse me of masked profanity.

Too add, I will continue as long as that particular poster doesn’t learn grammar or stops acting as though he’s some ultimate board wisdom provider and continues to talk down to everyone. Even though he can’t understand basic grammar usage.

That's a run on sentence. Learn proper grammar. Incomplete sentence.

You might want to step up your game.

‘Incomplete sentence’ is an incomplete sentence. Got you back.
Got me. I missed a couple commas. When I continue to have the same issues over and over, let me know. If I have those same issues pointed out over and over, let me know. I’m willing to learn.
If I don’t learn then please point it out until I do. I want to learn.
Now when the same issues of there, their, they’re...witch or which...your or you’re, etc continue to be pointed out but never solved, there’s a learning issue.
I have an issue with willful ignorance, or an unwillingness to learn.

I was only trying to speak to the level of the person to whom I was replying.
I'll let this one go, as there IS an implied subject. (me) However, on it's own, it IS improper usage. I'm doing my best right now.
I am trying to help you.


I said in another thread, perhaps, attempting to refute someone else's point by going all in on grammar and/or usage, is sad.

This isn't an English course. However, when calling someone else out as you have, it's best to have your ducks in a row.

Unlike that poster I don’t go around the board acting as some sort of divine knowledge purveyor. (Short of my grammar pokes at him directly.) He’s constantly talking down to anyone that disagrees with his stance as though they’re some sort of idiot. His constant 1+1=2 garbage is meant as ‘they’re so dumb they can’t even get the basics’ tripe. I find him droll.
So feel free to point out a few grammar gaffs I may have. I’ll take my knowledge base over his any day of the week. But I’ll also not allow him, of all posters, to talk down to me without calling him for what he is, a simpleton.
Point taken though. From this point forward I’ll do my best at holding back on the direct barbs.

I like you arch. I feel you’re a fair, intelligent poster with a good heart. Even if we don’t always see eye to eye. Or is that I to I?
Good day sir.

That would also be yet another incomplete sentence. In your incomplete sentence, I understood what you implied. However, now that you resort to Roman Numerals, I must correct you yet again. I, the Roman numeral for 1, "to" I, does not compute.

Good day to you as well. I'm off to get ready to watch the Lady Streaks (ranked #10 in D3) defeat yet another team.

Lady streakers?! Sounds fun. Where’s this event?

It's Lady Streaks. I now must add reading comprehension to my curriculum for you. Sadly, dude, I also have a full time job. I can't be constantly correcting you. It doesn't pay well. (other than in smugness)

Well my version sounds a lot more fun.