DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The New Front Office

I am sad to see Kirby Wilson go. I think that he did a good job with the running backs.

Why not?

We can probably pay him more than anyone, no?

Technically yes, but many teams can pay him what he'll want.

$300 an hour? That seems a bit steep, think I’ll just go fishing. Lol

True.


Then how the contract is structured will be important. Guaranteed monies, etc.

I really liked what I read about Lee. He seemed like a bright guy who really helped QBs w/their mechanics. The job that he and Hue did w/Hogan was beyond remarkable. They also improved Kizer's footwork and Osweiler raved about what Hue did w/his mechanics. I imagine that Lee was involved in that. In fact, I remember reading an article about it during camp.

The Browns front office makeover means Hue Jackson is in the crosshairs --

Bud Shaw's Sports Spin
Updated 4:39 PM; Posted 4:38 PM

http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.ssf/2018/01/the_browns_front_office_makeov.html



By Bud Shaw, cleveland.com

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Considered a front office "rising star" while working at one of John Dorsey's previous NFL stops, he turned down another organization to try to help build the Browns into a contender.

But enough about Ray Farmer.

Turns out Farmer's legacy was not "singing from the same hymnal" as Mike Pettine but rather texting hymn revisions on Sundays.

Now the latest personnel up-and-comer is Eliot Wolf, who followed new hire Alonzo Highsmith from Green Bay to comprise what many are calling a group of "hard-core football" men.

In this case, "hard-core football" is being happily floated as the good cop to the analytics bad cop. Here it's used to distinguish jocks from nerds.

Fact is scouting and analytics work well enough together in organizations all around the league. Only here and now, after 1-31, is one demonized at the expense of the other as if the head coach had nothing to do with that record.

It's funny. But not if you're hanging your hopes on the new front office as the biggest driving force behind making the Browns great again.

In the NFL, sustained success is the product of several elements working in harmony.

1)The head coach.

2)The quality of his staff.

3)The starting quarterback.

4)Front office talent.

5)The working relationship between the head coach and front office.

The accounting here still leaves a lot to be desired.

Item by item:

1)Hue Jackson.

2)A coaching staff that over two years has had more casualties than an episode of "The Vikings."

3)TBA.

4) Respected and promising.

5)Problematic.

The relationship is problematic because, for one, it's another in the long line of forced marriages in Berea with Jimmy Haslam again playing the role of relationship coach.

It's problematic because the front office is inheriting a 1-31 head coach whose biggest selling point is that his team kept a good attitude.

Granted, that's no small thing when you win once in two seasons. But it should not overshadow the fact you somehow won just once in two seasons.

Dorsey is a former NFL linebacker, who built his front office resume in Green Bay and Kansas City.

The last former NFL linebacker to run the front office was Farmer, who turned down a second interview in Miami because the Browns saw him as a rising star. His resume was built over seven years in Kansas City, Dorsey's last organization.

At least Farmer began with a coach, Pettine, who started out 7-4 before the trap door opened.

They didn't work well together despite Pettine being a traditional football guy, too. I'm just saying it takes a lot more than that.

One of Dorsey's first statements as Browns GM brought an assurance he would get Jackson the players he wanted. More "real" football players.

These arrangements always sound better between January-August before the GM has reason to second-guess the head coach and look for redeeming qualities other than the label of "player's coach."

It takes more than that in the NFL. Will Dorsey, Wolf and Highsmith drive the QB decision? How much should they, or can they, rely on Jackson?

Harmony and success will require the front office trusting the head coach is getting the most out of the talent provided.

Jackson liked to say he owned the losing, that it was all on him these past two years. Obviously he didn't and it wasn't.

Assistant coaches took the hit. Sashi Brown took the biggest hit of all.

But now Jackson is right.

The front office is Teflon. And now it is on him instead of the other way around.

Wow. The video. Talk about throwing players under the bus?

Damn skippy.

Wow. That's what you got out of that?

He NAILED it. And he's right.

You got 2000 A-Holes gallivanting around downtown CLEVELAND celebrating an 0-16 season? He was NICE about it.

I've got NUMEROUS words for those so called FANS and NONE are nice enough that I'd want my daughter to hear.

Cleveland.com? That's the Plain Dealer.

Is the Plain Dealer now just another of the few Hue bashers.

There’s no need to get VULGAR when your THANKING folks for RAISING MONEY to FEED the HUNGRY!!!! ... lets get our eyes back on the bouncing ball people ...

I do agree with u that Hue left his bus in the garage for what was shown in that video ... with all the driving hes been doing lately its prolly in the shop for its 100k mile check up ... ...

Only the HATERS could call him out for throwing anyone under the bus in that video ...

It made me gag when he said something about doing the things to support the coach...

Give me a break. The more he talks, the more I dislike him.

I don’t agree in this particular case ....

If it makes u feel any better .... this is one of the few times he’s opened his mouth since the NIGHTMARE at the FACTORY of SADNESS that I haven’t lost respect for him .... i now have ZERO RESPECT for the man ....

I thought this was a FO thread?

It is, but with any thread it is going to stray as the thread gets longer. You also have the fact it is hard to talk about a head coach void of discussion of the GM, or the FO without discussion of the coach. The two topics are interwoven in many cases.

I think the new front office will have a lot higher expectations than our last one. They are used to winning and yes the pressure will be great on Hue. Maybe we can get past all the excuses of the past Browns teams for not winning and accually become winners. If not I doubt leash will be very long. I do like the fact Dorsey has a win now phylosiphy. How long has it been since we've heard that from a Browns front office?

Actions speak louder than words and quite frankly, his hands are extremely full the minute he accepted the job.

Praying he and his staff gets it done. I like the people they've hired.

I agree Mac. The guy will be under great pressure. He doesn't have to do much more coaching himself out of a job. He does have to do a great deal of coaching himself back on solid ground.

He needs to win 2 of the first 5 games. I think that's fair and I hope our front office holds him to that.

No doubt the FO has their eyes gazed on the head coach, watching his every move. Listening to his every word.

I agree, 'peen. I don't believe a 1-4 or 0-5 start is survivable for Hue. I hope that Hue is surrounding himself with the best assistant coaches possible or he may not make it...

Just to be technical, the FO should punt him if we get to 0-4. No way for him to win 2 of the first 5.

It's a big time job for the FO this off season. More than the normal to evaluate.

You must be assuming that Hue has his QB of choice, maybe a serviceable vet in place. I don't see it happening with Kizer. Better offense is the only way to generate wins. A better secondary is the only way to shield leads, crucial fails this past season.

Regardless of coaches present, Hue's judgment needs evaluated in hindsight as well. He has mistakes to learn from so begets out of his own cocky stubbornness.

He is his own Job One. I would not give him much leeway or margin for error. The Packer Pack may have simpler analytics. I hope so.

Let's tie this all together, shall we? I hope everyone remembers what Dorsey said when he was first hired. You know, the statement that outraged so many people?

"You know what? You've got to get (Hue Jackson) players. And you know what? I'll come straight out with it. The guys who were here before, that system, they didn't get real players. "

So go ahead and talk about all this talent we have. Go ahead and claim that Dorsey believes that this mess is Hue's fault. Go ahead and believe that the sports writers have the answers and that they somehow trump Dorsey's statements. That seems to be what people are doing in almost every thread on this board.

I'll stick with what the new GM said no matter how butt hurt the fans get about his comments. It's obvious that he feels that analytics didn't work here. That there's a lot more to finding players than some stat sheet. That film shows you real football players and that the former FO didn't give Hue the players to win.

Good old football common sense. How refreshing it is to have that in the FO.

Except the part where the analytics guy (Depodesta) still has a job here. If it was analytics that was the problem, he would have went instead of Sashi. Sashi was just the go between in the same forced marriage Dorsey has with Hue now. The reason why Sashi is gone, is that Hue forgot what he signed up for and threw Sashi under the bus to buy himself some time. Ironically the dimwit just sped up the timeline to his own firing because early in the season when the fans are calling for someone's head it's not going to be Dorsey's head that they are calling for.

j/c:

I like our new FO's potential. I think it is a HUGE upgrade over Sashi and Grigson.

I am looking forward for the new front office actually working w/the coaching staff unlike the previous FO.

It's exciting to actually have some real football guys in the new front office. I also like the experience and track record of the guys in our new front office.

It
s more about the balance than a one size fits all. You don't have to eliminate analytics to put it in its proper perspective. It's not to be ignored but it's not the be all, end all.

So you blame Hue because he forgot what he signed up for instead of the owner not understanding it's what he signed up for?

Yeah, Hue fired Sashi. Once again, it's not rocket surgery.

You've taken this approach in several posts/threads recently and no one cares to listen to you, so I'd suggest giving up the act. If you can't see how all of these topics, positions, etc. are intertwined and overlap, that's your bad. We all get it, you don't like reading all the Hue bashing. But it's here and it ain't leaving until this team starts winning. You need to accept that.

If Hue was fired and Sashi stayed, there would be a ton of people calling for Sashi's head in every thread.....and that would include you.

That was the part I didn't care for... rest of it I agree 100% but that part for some reason rubbed me the wrong way...

But he said we're in a war for talent on all levels... I took thwt as players, coaches, front office, everyone.... and he's right... you're always looking at adding more talent... especially on a team thwt is 0-16... of curse part of thwt talent could be the head coach... this is hues last chance year IMO.... he either wins more than six games or I think he's gone...

I hope, for your sake, you don't think this is how we solely evaluated players. Please tell me you don't really believe this.

You are always in a war for talent....been that way for 100 years.

For him to say to be in support of the coach....screw him.


Hue is a bad coach. I wonder what his former assistants he just fired are doing today?


They get fired and Hue skates along with a smile on his face.


Think about that.

LOL..........no one listens to me? How do you know that? You act like you speak for everyone, but that is far from the truth. You speak for a small segment of this board. And you guys are ruining this board w/your hateful agenda.

DePodesta's job is far beyond using analytics to select players. On that side he contributed to the knowledge and method of using analytics on the roster. But his larger job has been setting policy within the building and the smooth daily workings between departments.

Before you say it, there is no policy that will make the going smooth between lifer-type football guys and those who are not. That's two departments right there that he couldn't make mesh.

You could take DePodesta completely out of any football interactions and he would still have a place and a major job in the building.

But Mac, does not Hue have control over selecting (deselecting?) his assistant coaches?

It might be a foreign concept regarding the Browns, but perhaps the new FO and the HC are actually working together?

Or maybe even Hue has been thinking of replacing those guys since the end of last season but gave them another chance thinking they'd fix it.

So maybe now, at the end of the season, which is typical, he making assistant coaching changes. I think this rather than thinking about a collusion for deceitful purposes.

I have two choices. To see these coaching changes as business as usual or to interpret them as deadly plans by the Evil Empire.

The second one's probably a lot more fun and gets a lot more action and reaction to feed the beast.