DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kirk Cousins, we all are already

STATS, STATS, and more STATS.

How do we explain this?

Since 2013. FIVE YEARS of Cousins.

3-13
4-12
9-7 (wildcard playoffs LOSS)
8-7-1
7-9

How do you justify 30m a year? I don't get it.

While the w-L is important, QBs absolutely get paid based on their stats in the nfl.

Actually....that’s most players in the league.

If Cousins price tag is too high, Alex Smith would suffice just fine. IMHO

To each his own.

I don't like pointing at an individual player and blaming a team's record entirely on him. Especially when it comes to a player who clearly played at an extremely high level.

Hmmmmm. I don't like that one.

Hmmmmm. At all.

It's not a matter of PRICE. Every team in the NFL would KILL to pay 30m a year for a Bonafide STUD at QB.

It's a matter of is Cousins that STUD.

So who do you blame?

Gruden? Snyder? Deshaun Jackson? Garcon? Defense?

yes and special teams and all the other coaches and the Ol and the WR

Washington has had a below average defense while Cousins has been there, since 2013 they have finished the following in points allowed 30th, 29th, 17th, 19th, and 27th. He also hasn't exactly had a great running game to help him either.

This might be OUT THERE, but based on all that, Cousins basically needs a PERFECT team around him in order to win even 10 games and a playoff game?

Hmmmm. Sounds like a 30 year old 30m a year Face of a Franchise QB to me.

Would you consider Phillip Rivers to be a franchise QB?

I doubt the Cousins would even return the call.

Talk about being a glutton for punishment.

Thank you sir, may I have another.

What was Cousins record vs. Playoff teams in Washington ?
How did he fare vs top ranked defenses ?
Some qbs can inflate their stats vs weak detenses and struggle vs top 12 defenses

Smith would cost us draft capital on top of the salary. How much draft capital is he worth? How much would it take to get him?

Cousins against playoff teams 2017:

vs chiefs: 14/24, 220 yards, 58.3%, 9.17 per pass,2 TDs, 0 int, 116.7 rating

vs vikings: 26/45, 327 yards, 57.8%, 7.27 per pass,1 TD, 1 int, 78.7 rating

vs saints: 22/32, 322 yards, 68.8%, 10.06 per pass, 3 TDs, 0 int, 132.6 rating

vs eagles(2 games): 53/80, 543 yards, 66.3%, 6.79 per pass, 4 TDs, 2 int, 91.8 rating

vs rams: 18/27, 179 yards, 66.7%, 6.63 per pass, 1 TD, 0 int, 97.6 rating

so against playoff teams this year, 11 TD's, 3 picks.

Trying to figure out the Kirk Cousins conundrum

https://dawgpounddaily.com/2018/01/14/cleveland-browns-cousins-conundrum/

The Cleveland Browns are on their annual quest to fix the quarterback position. But is Kirk Cousins the answer to the team’s woes?

Let’s get the obvious of the way up front, shall we?

The Cleveland Browns need to fix the quarterback position.

Almost everyone outside of the franchise knows that, and it is probably safe to say that everyone within team headquarters in Berea, save quarterback DeShone Kizer, knows it as well.

The big unanswered question is just how the Browns should go about solving the problem this offseason.

Fortunately for the Browns, the team has numerous options at its disposal. (And how rare is it that anyone can say or write that the Browns are fortunate about anything?)

The most likely path will come in the 2018 NFL Draft, where there will be at least five quarterbacks who will be part of the discussion – Oklahoma’s Baker Mayfield, Louisville’s Lamar Jackson, USC’s Sam Darnold, UCLA’s Josh Rosen and Wyoming’s Josh Allen.

There are pros and cons to each of those quarterbacks, which will all be exposed in the coming months. But the Browns hold selections No. 1 and No. 4 in the first round of the draft, so if they identify a quarterback they like there is absolutely nothing to stand in their way.

But if the Browns decide that waking a few more years for a rookie quarterback to develop into a consistent winner is just too much to stomach, free agency becomes an option.

Which leads us to Washington Redskins quarterback Kirk Cousins, who is one of the most-divisive quarterbacks in the NFL.

Candidly, to borrow a favorite word of Browns owner Jimmy Haslam, we simply do not know what to make of Cousins.

There is no doubting that he has put up the numbers in his time as Washington’s full-time starting quarterback. During the past three seasons, Cousins have averaged 4,392 passing yards, 27 touchdowns, 12 interceptions and, most importantly, completed 67 percent of his passes.

Of course, in today’s NFL, raw passing numbers may not mean as much as they once did. After all, during the same time period Jacksonville Jaguars quarterback Blake Bortles has averaged 4,006 passing yards, 26 touchdowns and 15 interceptions, which are not all that different from what Cousins has done in Washington.

Oh, and Bortles help the Jaguars into the playoffs this season, something that Cousins has not been able to do with the Redskins.

One of the arguments we’ve seen from Browns fans advocating for the Browns to bring Cousins to Cleveland is that he is “better than anyone the Browns have had since 1999.”

There is simply no debating that, but it does raise the question of what is the ultimate goal in all this. Is it to simply be better or is to be a championship contender on a regular basis?

By now, most people understand that “quarterback wins” is pretty meaningless, but it can be hard to look past the fact that in three years with Cousins at quarterback, Washington have gone 9-7, 8-7-1 and 7-9. (How Cousins and former Titans and Rams head coach Jeff Fisher never paired up is a mystery.)

Cousins’ numbers are certainly impressive, but do they ultimately translate into helping a team win games? And that is a very important question for the Browns given the nature of Cousins’ contract situation.

Because they have not been able to work out a long-term deal with Cousins, the Redskins have tagged him the past two seasons, which has driven up his price considerably.

That has left the two sides looking at three potential options this offseason, according to Albert Breer at Monday Morning Quarterback:

The Redskins can tag Cousins one final time at a cost of $34.4 million
The Redskins can transition tag Cousins, which would “only” cost them $28.73 million. It would also give the Redskins the right to match any offer that Cousins receives in free agency, but would not require any compensation if Cousins leaves.
The Redskins can simply let Cousins become an unrestricted free agent and hope for the best.

The Browns, of course, have the cap space to be a major player for Cousins, but that price will be considerable.

When it comes to quarterback it is difficult to really say how much is too much to pay someone. The Chicago Bears gave Mike Glennon $16 million last offseason, and teams keep trading first-round picks and handing out piles of cash to quarterback Sam Bradford, for reasons that are not clear.

But if the Browns are going to invest $25 million to $30 million (or more) to a quarterback, anything less than multiple Super Bowl titles would have to be considered a failure.

Which is why any decision revolving around Cousins is going to be difficult. Is he truly a game-changing quarterback and it was everyone else’s fault the Redskins were not better? Or did he just put up big numbers that ultimately did not matter when the final whistle blew each Sunday?

It would be easy for general manager John Dorsey to just cut a check and make Cousins the Browns quarterback for the next four to five years. But that would also be irresponsible without asking some hard questions about whether or not Cousins can be the quarterback to take the Browns to the next level.

Thomas Moore might be the most ignorant person in the world. I don't even think we should go after Cousins, but come on, what a dumb ass statement!

Cousins is the best FA out there, and very good QB. You get him and you don't worry about a rookie leading the team. We got the money to load this offense up. You add Cousins, Minkah and Barkley, and IMO a significant change will come for this team.

we could still go and bring back Brock

Seems to me like the Cousins vs Qb at #1 comes down to the old conundrum:

There are 2 buttons in front of you.

If you press the red button you get $1 million guaranteed
If you press the green one you have a 50-50 chance to win $10 million (or you get nothing)

Which button do you press?

Cousins is the red button
Drafting a Qb #1 overall is the green button

Green button, thanks.

I promise I am not trying to be rude, but I don't think this is a game show.

But you're making the potentially wrong assumption that just because we take a QB #1 overall that he'll become the next Wentz. Heck, we could of just as easily taken Goff in that same draft, and he pretty much put up similar stats as Kizer in his first year in the league. Had Goff did that in Cleveland, people would be calling him a bust and looking to dump him after a year.

I'm still pushing both dang buttons. I'm not letting one choice talk me out of the other.

If you think I am referring to a game show then you clearly don't get the allegory.

I'm thinking the green button in this scenario is not an all or nothing choice. Even if you don't get the $10M grand prize, you're still going to get some sort of value. I imagine the odds of success fall something like;

For Rosen

Stud starter ($10M) - 20%
Good starter ($1M) - 50%
Average starter ($500K) - 20%
Below average/bust (nothing)- 10%

For Darnold

Stud - 25%
Good - 40%
Average - 25%
Bust - 10%

(I could do Allen, Mayfield, Jackson, and Rudolf, but you get the point.)

If you can get Cousins, you do it and don't look back imho. Bird in the hand...

two in the bush?

I don't know if Cousins would really want to come here, or not .... but if he did, I would throw a ton of cash at him. Why not? Any deal could be structured so that it could shorten to a 2-3 year deal, and would still give him a ton of guaranteed cash. Draft either Rosen or Darnold, let them sit for a couple of years, and if they are ready to take over, cut ties with Cousins. He would still be young enough to generate interest on another decent deal.

If we don't come out of this off-season with the 1st QB taken in the draft, and a veteran staring QB, then this shiny new front office will have failed.

It would be foolish not to press both.

Do you really believe that we would SIT a #1 Draft Pick with the Talent of Rosen or Darnold for upwards of 2 years?

I just cannot wrap my head around that.

I'm betting it's Mccarron or Daniels with Rosen or Darnold.

Green Bay did with their #1 pick in 2005, worked out pretty well. Use FA for today and the draft for tomorrow and we have a better than not chance to be competitive for years to come at QB. This coming draft we have the affordable opportunity to do just that.

All the above, and more.

In no respect do the Redskins have a high end team. At best, any of their positional groups could be considered solid.

This year the Redskins were 21st in yards against, tied 28th in points against and 16th in yards per play against. They gave up 4.5 per carry against the run (28th) and tied for the 2nd most plays over 20 yards against the run.

They were better against the pass, 10th best in passer rating against. However, they were also 25th (best) in touchdowns against. So they didn't give up a whole lot of yards and were in the top half for sacks and interceptions, but gave up a lot of touchdowns.

In terms of rushing, the Redskins were awful. 3.6 yards per carry (30th) and 28th in total rushing yards (24th in attempts), 21st in touchdowns, 32nd in long runs (Only 3 rushes all year over 20 yards) and 2nd in fumbles.

Cousins led a passing offense to 12th in yards, 6th in touchdowns, 4th in plays over 20 yards, tied 7th (fewest) interceptions, 8th in completion percentage and 11th in passer rating. That, in spite of being sacked 8th most.

That passing offense was aligned in similarity to Pittsburgh, Atlanta and Detroit - all of whom objectively have better rushing, better OL and better receivers.

Now, sure, stats. But that's one of the best passing offenses in the NFL. If you have one of the best passing teams in the league, but you're losing, it's a team problem. The same reason that just a few years ago we saw Ryan and Brees playing for losing teams. How naïve to consider Ryan and Brees the issue - but when it's Kirk Cousins, that's fine to say in spite of the clear impact he's having.

Now, with that said, Cousins isn't exempt from poor performances. This year he threw 3 interceptions and 158 yards against the GIANTS in a loss. He also struggled against the Chargers. However, he was almost perfect against the Saints (131 passer rating) and he put up 3 touchdowns and 330 yards against the Vikings. They lost to the Eagles twice: Once he struggled, the other he put up 3 touchdowns and 300 yards. Throw back to 2016 when the Redskins lost to the Cowboys in spite of Cousins putting up 450 yards and 3 touchdowns. Cousins does run and hot and cold. One week he's the best in the league, the next he'll struggle to get the offense moving.

However, we're about to watch Foles, Keenum and Bortles duke it out for a spot in the Superbowl. Why? Because they play for awesome teams. Any of them isn't half a Kirk Cousins. Those guys all got in ahead of Roethlisberger, Ryan and Brees - two of whom, as I previously mentioned, have played at a high level on losing teams.

It is clear that Cousins is playing at a level in which the their record shouldn't be placed on the shoulders of Cousins.

I agree that Cousins isn't specifically elite. He's not Brady, Brees or Rodgers. He's a damn good quarterback, however, and I don't see any reason why he couldn't lead a team to a Superbowl if the right team was placed around him.

Putting a team around Cousins would be one hell of a lot easier, and more fun, than hoping to find a one-in-a-lifetime player like Brady/Brees/Rodgers in the draft. Ironically, all were undervalued draft day steals, just to highlight how damn hard it is to find one.

Objectively, Cousins doesn't have a good team around him. I would hope that Dorsey and his All-star front office could accomplish that, however.

C'mon man. That's a horrible comparison.

Daniel and Mayfield.


Cousins would be fine, however I'd be extremely disappointed if we brought him here. On one hand we should start winning, which is nice, but I don't think Cousins is the answer.

Really? What is it you think is horrible about the comparison?

Probably because Rodgers was the 24th overall pick in the 2005 draft rather than the first overall pick and the Packers still had Brett Farve playing at a high level.

And if we bring in Cousins it's because he's playing at a high level. Also 24th or 1st, it's was still the packers 1st overall. But Alex Smith was first overall that year. Certainly no one would suggest that he was a better choice than Rodgers. So I really see no point in going down that rabbit hole.

The overall point is if we land someone in FA like Cousins we still need to take a QB high, 1st or 4th and let them sit and learn. In the end our chances of gaining a successful NFL QB is greater than just tossing the new guy out there.

I wasn't trying to argue w/you. I was pointing out that he was the 24th overall pick as opposed to the 1st overall pick and he was sitting behind a HOFer in response to a question you asked.

I apologize if you didn't really want an answer.

Nor was I trying to argue with you. I'm simply responding to your reply as to why I don't necessarily agree. It is okay if we don't agree and it doesn't have to lead to an argument. It's just a differing opinion.