DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Kirk Cousins, we all are already

Yeah, compile a list that covers decades and try to make a point out of it. lmao

You know as well as I do that in any given year, more starters come from teams that draft them than signed them on the FA market. That was my point and you have proven why stats are for losers. Because people will manipulate them to try to prove a point that doesn't exist.

I had a weird dream last night that he somehow ended up in Pittsburgh. It was one of those dreams that felt so real, I had to talk myself out of it when I got up this morning.

Anyone's top 100 QB is going to be over decades Pit. If I didn't use a top 100 list you'd be complaining that none of the QB's are any good.

YOU ARE FREE TO DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH ANY TIME TO DISPROVE MINE.

We both know you won't do that because one it takes some effort and two most stuff that you post is baseless.

So we are stuck with rocket surgery.

Let's look at the actual QB's of each team. Not based on injury, but on the actual QB's that each team deems their starting QB without them being out due to injury. The QB's they actually see as their future starters.

San Fran - JG Trade

Colts - Andrew Luck - Draft pick

Cleveland - DeShone Kizer - Draft pick

Chicago - Mitchell Trubisky - Draft pick

Jets - Josh McCown - FA

Houston - Deshaun Watson - Draft pick

Cincy - Andy Dalton - Draft pick

Jags - Blake Bortles - Draft pick

Giants - Eli Manning - Draft pick

Arizona - Carson Palmer - Trade

Bills - Tyrod Taylor - FA

Redskins - Kirk Cousins - Draft

Eagles - Carson Wentz - Draft

Seahawks - Russell Wilson Draft

Cowboys - Dak Prescott - Draft

Rams - Jared Goff - Draft

Panthers - Cam Newton - Draft

Tampa Bay - Jameis Winston - Draft

Ravens - Joe Flacco - Draft

Dolphins - Jay Cutler - FA

Titans - Marcus Mariota - Draft

Vikings - Teddy Bridgewater - Draft

Broncos - Paxton Lynch - Draft

Saints - Drew Brees - Trade

Chargers - Philip Rivers - Draft/Trade

Steelers - Ben Roethlisberger - Draft

Lions - Matthew Stafford - Draft

Chiefs - Alex Smith - Patrick Mahomes drafted to replace Smith.

Falcons - Matt Ryan - Draft

Green Bay - Aaron Rodgers - Draft

Oakland - Derek Carr - Draft

N. E. - Tom Brady - Draft.

As I said, the vast majority of NFL teams find the answer to the QB position through the draft. Many of those who don't, only find band aids. Unless you actually think Tyrod Taylor, Jay Cutler and Josh McCown answer the QB position where they are playing.

You make this too easy.



Well base on that for a while.

What did they trade to get him?

Not trying to argue, but in fairness this should read;

Vikings - Case Keenum - FA

I have no idea who their starting QB is going to be next year, but as of right now, their starter is Keenum.

And it may remain that way. In fact I believe that it will. But none of that really changes my basis that most teams find their long term QB via the draft.

I'll admit, this is nitpicking, but a couple of those are wrong.

Dolphins have Tannehill, and he was from the draft.

Browns, Jets, Jags and Broncos (and probably Giants) have guys (and you put the right guys down), but to say that those guys are their long-term starters is misleading. Those teams are going to be replacing those guys in this upcoming offseason.

My main point is what QB's are currently playing that were drafted as long term starters for their current teams and what QB's were signed as FA's as long term starters for their teams.

And while it's true the Dolphins have Tannehill, they did move on to Cutler as their starter.

Usually, if a team sees the QB they drafted as being a long term starter, he never hits the FA market. That's why teams usually look towards the draft for their answer.

That's why if a quality FA QB hits the open market, he can dictate his destination. If he's young, like Cousins is, he will want a destination that gives him the best odds of success in order to set him up for yet another high dollar contract four years from now. I don't believe it's logical to think that Cousins will find Cleveland a logical destination for that.

Let's face it, most of us agree that Hue is on a one year prove it deal at this juncture. That doesn't appear to be a place of stability and success to most players IMO.

Because Tannehill got hurt before the season.

Well then let's just add one to the drafted list. Since my contention was that far more teams resolve their QB needs via the draft, I'm fine with that!

I wasn't trying to make a point, just a correction.

That's fine.

Yup, this is what I was getting at with the Dolphins line.


I get that you're saying that the good QBs are got through the draft, but I don't really understand what we're supposed to glean from that. Good QBs are pretty rare, so it makes sense that teams don't let them go when they have a good one. I see this more as correlation vs causation, if you think about it that way.

If anything, I would argue that this is more of an argument FOR getting Cousins instead of drafting high. It's so rare to find a good QB (yes, Cousins is good) that can be had through FA. I'd even hazard a guess that the dreaded Analytics would have us go and get Cousins, and then spend that high draft capital on other positions/prospects that do not carry such a high bust risk like QBs do.

Now subtract out all of the QB's that suck because those teams have not solved their QB problem yet.

Furthermore, look at those that weren't drafted by the team they are with and then consider how few of those feel the person they acquired is truly going to work out as a long-term answer and how few of those have been with that team past their initial contract with that team.

It just does not tend to work on long term. There are definitely exceptions (Brees), but in general they are all short-term solutions.
The reason is simple: teams do everything they can to keep the long-term solutions from getting away. With the lone exception of Brees, who was in the way of Rivers, teams do not trade those guys away, and if they can help it, they don't let them get away in free agency.

Which is why I say Kirk Cousins will end up back in Washington.

As long as the same thing applies to the FA's signed as well, I'm fine with it. MOST teams solve their long term QB solutions via the draft. Rarely do you see it being done in the FA market.

I think this thread is a lot of debate about nothing. I think Cousins will end up staying in Washington. I’m sure worst case for them they will franchise him. I don’t believe he’ll just walk away as a FA.

I doubt he ends up being a FA either. And if he does he'll find a team willing to pay him a boat load of money that he'll think is a better destination for his career than Cleveland.

Yeah not even trying works great.

I have to apologize, because this is apparently my bad. Somewhere along the way I thought Kirk spent some time in Ohio, specifically Mentor.

I would still make a strong play for Cousins. We can keep the draft pick it would take for Smith, and ensure a fortified wall against us signing another Dwayne Boe or Kenny Brit.

We need to protect ourselves from ourself. This includes drafting a high QB in this year's draft, as well as signing diva WRs. TP , you are welcome back, we could use you.

Pay a veteran QB, draft Barkley at 1 (bark), then find your project at 4. Side note, Kizer showed me tons of resolve, I believe in him. Composure and bouncing back from adversity is a trait of a starting NFL QB. He hasn't bounced back, he did show composure.

Someone needs to post the 247Sports blurb titled:

Ex-Skins GM (Scot McCloughan) Warns teams looking to pay Kirk Cousins.

"Doesn't See Special"

Perhaps that is why is is an EX gm LOL. I'd love to have Kirk =)

The ideal is to sign Cousins, develop Kizer and draft another qb in the 3rd or 4th round.

Then we could draft Barkley #1....what we do at 4?? Lot's of options.

I would trade down but stay in the top ten. We would be able to pick up like 2 extra first round picks for the QBs in this year's draft.

^This.

247 Sports - LMAO.... I can't think of a less insightful source of information.

I would probably trade down as well, though it could go deeper than 10. I have a feeling Joe is going to hang them up. I was listening to Thomahawk...a podcast Joe and Hawkins do....really informative. Joe keeps referring to the team as "they" rather than "we". We are probably going to look seriously at drafting a quality LT. I am not sure we have that on the roster at this point.

I agree with others, Drango did a nice job filling in, but he is a inside guy. We are going to have to fix that be it a vet QB or a rookie. Even if Joe comes back this year, I doubt he plays longer. Having a kid in place this season, to learn from JT would be a big boost.

In looking at Dorseys past drafts while with KC, he seems to show a knack for finding later round O-linemen....maybe that magic comes here?

Anyway, we have a lot of options

They are just a news aggregator, look at what the news is and who said.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2745654-orlando-brown-declares-for-2018-nfl-draft

I have a soft spot for this kid to join the Browns. If we traded out of the top 10 I would go for him.

He will not be a LT at the next level - RT only.

Well he is guaranteed to be a stud at RT. He could still end up being a good LT too. Just have to wait and see if he can move that big body well at NFL speed.

His speed for his size is pretty amazing. I just have a hard time imagining a guy that big playing on the left side.

I'm okay w/Coleman. He isn't great, but he's young and he can improve.

His weakness is that he has poor lateral movement. That won't work at LT. He is a RT or RG in my opinion.

I think the same. We need a guy that can play on the left in case JT hangs it up.

Well, he is going to hang them up. I think a 60% chance in a few weeks. A 95% chance after next season.

Joe is all over the airwaves. He is smart, good looking, witty. He is already in life after football mode.

Heard Joe say on the radio he would gladly guarantee to play 3 more years for brees to play here. I think it's obvious he really wants a legit QB to protect. He is making it LOUD and CLEAR too so if he retires that everyone will know why. He is not wasting his life protecting Kizer for another season that is for darn sure!!!

New Orleans has a weird situation. They owe Brees $18 million before they even sign him because there was signing bonus on the voided years of his contract.

He's going to want around $30 mil a year and that's all they have next year.

They don't have a lot of cut friendly contracts at the top and will need to make a bunch of smaller cuts if they want to add players.

Offering Drew a signing bonus digs the hole deeper for the Saints unless he plays out the entire contract.

A creative contract offer could take him away from the Saints, but other teams know that as well as we do.