DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum AJ McCarron thread

I wish the Browns would have used Clevesteve's insight instead of their own. We probably would have a few Lombardi's by now, lol. I wish he'd come back here and post.
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No I don't expect them to be perfect. Certainly not. But let's put the shoe on the other foot. If you were paying multi millions of dollars every year to someone you made it abundantly clear to that their #1 job was to get a QB, how many years would you continue to pay such a salary knowing they missed on that opportunity at least a few times? When someone pays somebody that much money, there's a certain amount of accountability attached to it.

And I do understand that we all use our evaluations as a gauge to our beliefs on a player. That's not really the issue I have with it. The problem I have is when people use that as some form of weapon in either bolstering or attacking a FO as if their opinions on players is somehow comparable to those who make millions to make those decisions.



Let me bring up a point I've used in the past. How do you really evaluate a lot of our players who have been drafted? Some seem pretty obvious like Obgah, Garrett and even a few others on the D side of the ball.

But let's look at the O side. Njoku is quite raw and still an unfinished product. Devlave still has his questions marks. We drafted three WR's in the middle rounds of a very weak draft class. Anyone could see that those picks didn't make any sense.

We have a lot of young talent that the jury is still out on is my point. Some will develop and some won't. But the QB is and always will be the albatross in the room until we have one. It's the most important position in the NFL and once again Haslam made it public that it's Dorsey's #1 priority.

Being a starter on the worst team in the league certainly isn't a vote of confidence on a players ability.

Just like a HC being the survivor of a purge of FO personnel isn't a vote of confidence in the HC's abilities...especially when JH is on charge.

Well it is obvious to see who got the bigger vote of confidence. The one who is still here......

A vote of confidence from Jimmy Haslam might be the most irrelevant Browns thing I can think of. Getting a 'bigger' vote of confidence from JH is like being the tallest midget.

JH just decided to keep a HC who won one game in two years. That goes more to JH's incompetence than HJ's hidden/secret/magic ability.

Yet it's the only vote of confidence that counts because he signs the checks. Sucks, doesn't it?

Only sucks for the fans who have to put up with the crapfest.

Completly agree.

IMHO,what was questionable on Sashi's strategy wasn't on passing on a specific talent, but passing on all talent, and trading for picks.

Underlying assumption was that a team is able to get better value from bottom round picks and less talented players.

That is the big issue here, and in fact I would say a substantial part of the posters here agree with Sashi, but I see them attacking specific decisions he made....

I on the other side, do not believe is possible to get the type of players a NFL contender needs inn later rounds. You have to draft/sign your franchise players when you can.

That's why the biggest failure,IMHO, wasn't passing on Wentz or even Watson, the biggest failure was passing on Bosa/Zeke and Malik/OJ this year.

I also think Sashi extended this logic to the roster, and thought it was easy to replace the talent we had. This part I think he actually was kind of validated, because he was able to build solid DL and OL....

Now, what is most curious is that many posters criticize Sashi for his football decisions, some even question how can the Owner make a lawyer the GM...

What they fail to realize is that what failed here the most in this project were the football guys,not the lawyer or business part of the team.

Yes,IMHO, you can have a business man, a professional manager managing a football team, providing you have great football staff...

What you cannot have is a lawyer managing mediocre football personnel....

Still somebody has to explain me,how did Haslam hire a lawyer to get the QB... I always thought it were the football guys that were hired because they knew a lot about QB's....

Malik and OJ? Malik tore his ACL in Week 7. For Malik, we got Peppers (who played a full season) and the number 4 pick of the draft, which could end up being Minka Fitzpatrick.


If you ask me right now if I'd rather have Hooker or Fitzpatrick, I'll take Fitzpatrick all day any day. Fitzpatrick is a far more complete player.



And OJ Howard. Hadn't heard much about him, but looking at his stat line, looks pretty similar to David Njoku's. Both were on bad teams. Howard was picked at 19, Njoku at 30 (using a 2nd round pick and a 4th round pick, which made us eligible to excercise the first round option on Njoku).


So I don't see any reason to bring those two up. Cause, as far as I'm concerned, that trade down is a success verses the prospect of selecting Hooker at this point. And Njoku and Howard look pretty comparable at this point

I was super depressed that we passed on Hooker last year, but agree I would rather have Fitz than Hooker.

Vambo, and a few others, you need to understand that no one is given truth serum before they are asked questions. One cannot totally dismiss quotes but often, often, people are asked questions and the answers they get are either the truth, a half-truth or a lie. It's the reader's job to figure out which one it is rather than hang on each quote as the gospel truth.

One cannot simply post a quote and then drop the mic as though they've now won the argument, unless the argument is whether or not the quote exists.

There are reasons why someone might not be telling the truth on a given question. It can be either a team's or an individual's opinion being masked.

They might want to mask information so as not to give away the team's true plans on a subject.

They might want to deceive opponents into thinking something that is not true, to steer opponents toward or away from the real truth.

One might want to toe the company line regardless of what this individual person thinks or believes.

I'll leave it there for you to add to the many, many reasons a quote may not be the real truth.

Every thing is not everybody's business. Just like you don't give up all the important, personal inner workings of your family's affairs to your younger children, neither does the team want to divulge important, inner workings and plans behind the team's thinking to the entire nation.

For some reason the requirement for a link to a quote seems to lead to the idea that once that quote is obtained the truth is now known, whereas all that is really proven by the quote is what the person said, not the truthfulness behind it.

People shouldn't have to be told these things.

Well said, indeed ddubia!

So he could have been telling lies to cover for himself and others and one cannot take him at face value...got it good point.

If everything is not everybody business simply say "NO COMMENT"

The NFL requires certain team people to be made available to the media. Someone has to be the main spokesman for the team. News reporters won't stand for a constant diet of "no comment". It leaves them with nothing to write about and the fans with no team information and we, those of us on this board for instance, crave information. Even if it's BS it gives us a starting point for discussions.

Personally I think Hue talks too much. He tells too much about what he is thinking or the BS he wants us to buy into. He could do himself a favor and keep things closer to the vest. Maybe not quite like BB, lol, but a little less blabber mouth.

But it doesn't stop with the HC. There is also the owner, GM, other coaches and players whom offer sound bites and opinions that stray from the truth.

Then there is the national media and blog writers who take snippits of quotes and build mountains out of those mole hills, (if they ever existed in the first place), and coax major discussions out of ESPN and the NFL Network based on little to nothing, sometimes only on opinions of people far, far away from the team. Quotes from them have even less validity. It's a circus.

There are also media members who offer up their opinions of the team/coach/players/plan. Some fans read this stuff, think it sounds pretty good/plausable to them and then use that as the basis for their won opinions. They sometimes defend those opinions dogmatically. It may be based on total made-up BS but once someone has bought into it at that depth, it's gospel to them. Then others hear them repeat that BS info and they start to be like-minded on that subject. If it snowballs you can have half a message board lost in the sea of stupidity. Now what?

It sometimes makes me feel like I'm the only one with a boat. lol

If you are OK with a coach that lies that's good for you, People on here say they hate liars but find many ways to cover Hue for his lies.

I don't trust liars.

If you're goal is to stay away from those who would deceive you then you'd best nail your door shut from the inside because the world is not sunshine, lollipops and rainbows.
The team owes you nothing but W's in the win column. That's it. They don't owe you an explanation and if they choose to give you one because you press them for it they don't owe it to you wrapped up in the truth.

All they owe you is wins. If they're not winning you can complain about it they don't owe you the truth. You can't handle the truth. Cheer for them or not, but don't expect them to put their arm around your shoulder and take you into their confidence with an honest explanation.

I don't know if you have a job working for an employer but if you do you'd better bet your ass that he is not going to honestly tell you all about his business. It's a need to know basis and you need to know a hell of a lot more about your job than you do your favorite football team. Your work owner is going to tell you whatever he needs to in order to keep you working, even if it's not always the truth.

It's all good if that's your type of people good for you.

You seem to have an idealistic view of what the world should be. Good luck with that.

If I wanted to root for thugs I'd be a Steelers fan.

Steelers are rapists, Baltimore has the murderers. GET IT STRAIT MAN!

=P

You do realize what he is doing, right?

It's what he always does. But he ran himself into a wall with his "liar" comment regarding a coach who would mis-lead opponents using mis-leading comments. ALL coaches do that, it's a matter of gamesmanship. Now they are all liars, especially Hue.

Liars on a personal level are despicable. But using bluffs and mis-leading comments by a coach or business person is not lying per se. It's bluffing. It is essentially mis-leading to gain an edge.

There are sometimes comments made without thinking. I believe this is part of Hue's problem.

PM me regarding your post to which I'm replying.

A.J. McCarron: 'Would have loved' chance to lead Browns to wins

Cincinnati Bengals quarterback A.J. McCarron was nearly Cleveland Browns QB A.J. McCarron, and nobody wanted that more than Browns coach Hue Jackson. It was Jackson who pushed for the Browns to trade for the Bengals backup, his former protege from his time as Cincinnati’s offensive coordinator.

It turns out McCarron really wanted it to. He broke his silence on the issue in an interview with an Alabama radio station.

“As a competitor, I wanted that opportunity, just to be able to showcase and help a team win ball games,” McCarron said on Mobile radio station WNSP. “I think I would have had some success playing for Hue. I would have loved the opportunity to go up there and get them a win, more than one win. As a competitor, that’s all you can ask for.”

Then-general manager Sashi Brown explained at the time the deal did not get done by the trade deadline, though many reports indicate it was a paperwork snafu that ultimately led to the failure of the trade between the two AFC North rivals.

https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/...browns-to-wins/

with Andy Dalton's contract expiring and AJ wanting out...Bengals could be out of two QB's pretty soon.

I have a feeling with Zamp as our QB coach...one of the Two might be headed our way.

Just how was this statement meant to be mis-leading to any opponents ...other than his own team?

That was Jackson toeing the company line.

Why should he lie about that doesn't make sense, wouldn't help win games.

So now he not only LIES to as you say "meant to be mis-leading to any opponents but also to " toeing the company line"...was he ever truthful about anything?

Probably not Vambo, probably not.

I give up. You are for more intellectually superior to me. I could never win an argument with you, as can no one else.

Besides, this is the AJ McCarron thread. I responded as I thought this would be a short aside from the discussion. Instead it has turned into a lengthly back and forth that has gotten nowhere and of which I've tired.

Back to AJ McCarron...

This is what I was talking about when I said that many of our best posters are not posting any more or are rarely posting due to a handful of posters who have poisoned this forum and made it more about personalities than football talk.

No, those guys seem to be the ones losing right now. Logic seems to finally be beating the agendas out there.

Oh, come on. There are several posters out there that hijack every thread. That isn't logic. It's sour grapes.

There are guys trying to defend a coach throwing players under the bus, lying about his actions, coordinating leaks to the press, and mismanaging football games, that are complaining about their threads being ruined, yes.

That's mainly because they have a hard time arguing against logic.

The same guys complaining now, are the guys that drove the posters away earlier.

We disagree. The number of posters defending Hue are far fewer than those bashing him. In fact, the same guys bashing him on thread after thread after thread are the same guys who vigorously went on the attack when anyone dared question Sashi.

I don't see many people arguing w/you guys. There are a couple. But, most just walk away while you guys dominate each and every conversation by saying the same stupid crap over and over and over.

Now, I'm done.

Yes, they are the minority, but they are a very vocal minority and until recently, a pretty militant minority. The problem is that so few people believe their arguments anymore, the last straw they have against any post against the coach is that the thread is being ruined.

Most threads about the team lead to the coach, because most people view the coach as a problem for the team.

I am going to say this again..............y'all are ruining this forum. It's like the Political forum. I'm hoping the mods step in and start policing the hijacking of threads by those who are so upset that Sashi was fired.

That is where you and I differ.

I have no problem against you arguing against anything I say. I'll simply argue back, but you have the right to your opinion. I do have a problem with some of your methods, but the refs deal with those things as they come up.

I have no need for a ref to take away your opinion.

I can deal with that myself. Logic usually wins.

I am logical and I don't think that is debatable.

Perfect! Then you can handle the opposing view without demanding that it be taken away then.

See! I knew this would be productive!

Dep, I was the first guy to criticize Hue on here. So yeah, I can discuss both sides.

What I am talking about is how each and every thread is hijacked to the point where we can't even talk about the topic and it's all about Hue.

Come on, man.........I'm trying here to get this fixed. Let's make this less about personalities and more about football talk. Please?????

How many threads about the 1-31 team did you envision not leading to the coach, when so many people are upset with the coach?