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I think it is pretty obvious that the plan that Haslam and Sashi orchestrated is far more responsible for our record than our coaching staff. If you can't admit that, then there is no further need for us to converse about it.
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No, I'm pretty sure the plan was to lose, but even the worst coach out there should have accidentally won a couple of games. The Haslam and Sashi plan had nothing to do with the poor game management, abandoning the running game, and ruining a rookie QB. Hue has earned his own scorn. Maybe you saw that in the beginning, but you don't seem to be seeing it now.
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Legend
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I have never said he shouldn't have won a couple of games. But come on, man........this team wasn't built to win this past year. What's the difference between winning 2 games this past year and zero?
Do you remember some of you making that argument a couple of years ago when Sashi blew up the roster?
I even predicted that blowing up the roster was not a good idea because of how we would establish such a losing culture. The blame game starts. Players start pressing. So do the coaches. Alienation between different parts of the organization widen. The fans and media look for for fall guys. Attendance dwindles. Ownership gets angry.
I'm sorry, but I never thought it was a good plan for those reasons. I love that we have the picks and the money, but the damage done by so much losing was devastating.
And again, if Sashi had such a grand plan, why hasn't he even received an interview?
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They're like trying to discuss something with a Trump hater.
Same M.O.
#gmstrong
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And again, if Sashi had such a grand plan, why hasn't he even received an interview?
The guy was just fired this year. Banner was a favorite of yours correct? How many interviews has he had since he has been fired? Hue managed the games, not Sashi or Haslam. They weren't managed well. Same with the RB and the QB. Your dislike for Sashi has nothing to do with whether or not Hue has earned his scorn.
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Legend
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Banner hasn't had any interviews as far as I know. See, some of us can be honest. Others can't.
My dislike of Sashi was due to his dumb-ass decisions. Cutting Haden was dumb. Blowing up the roster was dumb. Passing on impact players was dumb. Playing hardball w/free agents was dumb. Alienating his coaching staff was beyond dumb. Being insubordinate was inexcusable. He'll never get a NFL personnel job again for his transgressions here in Cleveland. Bank on that.
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And again, if Sashi had such a grand plan, why hasn't he even received an interview?
The guy was just fired this year. Banner was a favorite of yours correct? How many interviews has he had since he has been fired? Hue managed the games, not Sashi or Haslam. They weren't managed well. Same with the RB and the QB. Your dislike for Sashi has nothing to do with whether or not Hue has earned his scorn. Isn't he still getting paid by Jimmy?
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Legend
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My dislike of Sashi was due to his dumb-ass decisions. Cutting Haden was dumb. Blowing up the roster was dumb. Passing on impact players was dumb. Playing hardball w/free agents was dumb. Alienating his coaching staff was beyond dumb. I agree with all of that. I wanted him gone as well as Hue. I don't want any remnants of this all time losing culture to remain. I'd love some continuity, but when you're going down to defeat week after week in historic fashion that the league has never before witnessed, and the team is not showing improvement in any area...it's time to call in the dogs. The hunt's over. I'd be all for letting Dorsey start from scratch. This smells of the fat guy keeping Mangini for a season because the team didn't quit on him, and we saw how that went.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir
#GMSTRONG
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Banner hasn't had any interviews as far as I know. See, some of us can be honest. Others can't.
My dislike of Sashi was due to his dumb-ass decisions. Cutting Haden was dumb. Blowing up the roster was dumb. Passing on impact players was dumb. Playing hardball w/free agents was dumb. Alienating his coaching staff was beyond dumb. Being insubordinate was inexcusable. He'll never get a NFL personnel job again for his transgressions here in Cleveland. Bank on that. I have some Sashi decisions I didn't like as well. And again, this has nothing to do with whether or not Hue has earned his scorn.
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That's fair.
I don't agree w/firing Hue because I just don't think there is a better candidate out there and I don't think anyone could have won w/this roster. Yeah, maybe another coach could have won 2 games or so, but I think we coached the team to see what we had in players more than anything else.
And w/all of that said..............I am NOT saying Hue is a good HC. Like I said, I was the first dude on here questioning him. I'm just trying to keep it real.
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And again, if Sashi had such a grand plan, why hasn't he even received an interview?
The guy was just fired this year. Banner was a favorite of yours correct? How many interviews has he had since he has been fired? Hue managed the games, not Sashi or Haslam. They weren't managed well. Same with the RB and the QB. Your dislike for Sashi has nothing to do with whether or not Hue has earned his scorn. Isn't he still getting paid by Jimmy? Sashi is but I don't believe Banner is anymore.
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Sashi is who I meant thanks.
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I think I would be ok if AJ landed here.
I bet you're wondering the samething I did, why O' why didn't I take the...blue pill
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Almost got back on topic 2 pages ago
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AJ McCarron Reportedly Files Grievance Against Bengals, Wants to Be 2018 UFA http://bleacherreport.com/articles/27425...-to-be-2018-ufaAccording to Schefter, a ruling on McCarron's filing is expected "sometime this winter." Should the arbitrator side with the Bengals, Schefter reported the team "likely would place a first-round tender on McCarron as a restricted free agent." If McCarron comes out on top, he'll be free to pursue a big-money deal on the open market after spending the first three seasons of his career in Cincinnati.
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AJ McCarron and a rookie to sit would at least seem like a plan (no reference to previous references of 'plan' intended) that may work given his history with Hue and potentially Zampese. Hell, Kizer may even click in that environment.
The Bengals (!) did it how I'd like to see with Palmer. I know some rookies have had success but that has been by and large into an existing and relatively successful and stable framework which did not ask them to do everything. I still scratch my head at the number of times we asked DK to pass the ball.
In this scenario, guys like Rudolph, Jackson and Allen may come into play. I still see Rosen as the best of the crop presently though, notwithstanding concerns over his injuries.
Last edited by drobs; 01/21/18 03:51 AM.
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Alright, keeping the thread to McCarron - how much do you think we'd have to pay him vs. Smith. I know Cousins will cost a mint which I am not convinced he warrants despite other views. I don't see McC being worth a super deal, maybe 8M 3 yrs. I'd pay Smith more, say $15m/yr for 2 years, I think he gets 17M/yr now and I can see going up to that in negotiations. Don't know Bridgewater's worth but I wouldn't break the bank for him unless he's good enough in Dorsey's eyes.
My One Desire is pick the top rated QB in the draft no matter what else we do.
Last edited by chet the jet; 01/21/18 04:46 AM.
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I think McCarron would like an opportunity to be a starter. I think this would be his best chance. He has ties and knowledge of the system. If he wins his grievance case I see him being a Brown. No idea on money but we have more than enough. I also think Dorsey would go for it. It works out, all good. It doesn't, Hue likely goes and the rookie comes in. It's a win win for FO.
Last edited by drobs; 01/21/18 05:34 AM.
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A.J. McCarron: 'Would have loved' chance to lead Browns to wins Cincinnati Bengals quarterback A.J. McCarron was nearly Cleveland Browns QB A.J. McCarron, and nobody wanted that more than Browns coach Hue Jackson. It was Jackson who pushed for the Browns to trade for the Bengals backup, his former protege from his time as Cincinnati’s offensive coordinator. It turns out McCarron really wanted it to. He broke his silence on the issue in an interview with an Alabama radio station. “As a competitor, I wanted that opportunity, just to be able to showcase and help a team win ball games,” McCarron said on Mobile radio station WNSP. “I think I would have had some success playing for Hue. I would have loved the opportunity to go up there and get them a win, more than one win. As a competitor, that’s all you can ask for.” Then-general manager Sashi Brown explained at the time the deal did not get done by the trade deadline, though many reports indicate it was a paperwork snafu that ultimately led to the failure of the trade between the two AFC North rivals. https://brownswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/...browns-to-wins/with Andy Dalton's contract expiring and AJ wanting out...Bengals could be out of two QB's pretty soon. I have a feeling with Zamp as our QB coach...one of the Two might be headed our way. That last part is why we need to POUNCE on this. NOW. Ratt burgers retiring SOON. They have NOTHING behind him. Flacco has never been more than an AVERAGE QB. Dalton can stay or go. AVG QB. Fix the Secondary and take this Defense to the next level and get Darnold or Rosen and we are on our way to the TOP of the AFC North within the next 2 years. I'd gladly take Mccarron for his knowledge of Jackson's Offense and Veteran Presence in the QB Room. I'm now OFF the Cousins Wagon. Solely due to the fact that I firmly believe that BOTH Darnold and Rosen are going to end up being MUCH better QB'S down the road. And NINE years younger. Darnold or Rosen with Kizer and almost ANY Veteran QB NOT named Cousins or Smith is a great QB Room improvement. You guys would be ALOT better off if you'd just DROP the constant BS arguing about Jackson and Sashi and actually ENJOY the RIDE.
Last edited by kwhip; 01/21/18 05:47 AM.
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I liked AJ when he was at Bama. I think he has ability.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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If a QB can't beat out Dalton then to be honest he isn't good enough for me to invest our future with him. If he wants to be a cheap back because he likes to play for Hue then sure why not. No way we pay this guy starter money.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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j/c
I've no doubt that AJ would love to start for the Browns. Actually, he'd love to start for anybody. Anybody. But he won't get to do that because nobody is going to sign him as their starter. Nobody.
No matter how much people think Hue likes AJ, Dorsey is not going to do that.
If we want only to win a few more games next season as we did last season then AJ works for that. His better accuracy vs Kizer should give you at least that.
But if you want to be some sort of relevant then you need a better bridge QB while your draft pick is developing.
Having AJ, Kizer and a draft pick is pretty much the same QB room we had last year except that with AJ in the mix we'd have a QB room with 2 wins total instead of 0.
No thanks.
#gmstrong
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j/c
I've no doubt that AJ would love to start for the Browns. Actually, he'd love to start for anybody. Anybody. But he won't get to do that because nobody is going to sign him as their starter. Nobody.
No matter how much people think Hue likes AJ, Dorsey is not going to do that.
If we want only to win a few more games next season as we did last season then AJ works for that. His better accuracy vs Kizer should give you at least that.
But if you want to be some sort of relevant then you need a better bridge QB while your draft pick is developing.
Having AJ, Kizer and a draft pick is pretty much the same QB room we had last year except that with AJ in the mix we'd have a QB room with 2 wins total instead of 0.
No thanks.
Agreed. I don't see AJ as the 'vet' QB that would be disposable after 2 years. Yep, the QB room would look much the same as last season...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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If the Browns are looking for a veteran QB to help teach young QBs, Josh McCown might be at the top of my list.
Surely the Browns can find a veteran QB from the list below.Drew Brees QB 39 NO TBD $24,250,000 UFA
Kirk Cousins QB 29 WAS TBD $23,943,600 UFA
Sam Bradford QB 30 MIN TBD $18,000,000 UFA
Jay Cutler QB 34 MIA TBD $10,000,000 UFA
Josh McCown QB 38 NYJ TBD $6,000,000 UFA
Drew Stanton QB 33 ARI TBD $3,250,000 UFA
Chad Henne QB 32 JAC TBD $3,250,000 UFA
Ryan Fitzpatrick QB 35 TB TBD $3,000,000 UFA
Derek Anderson QB 34 CAR TBD $2,350,000 UFA
Mark Sanchez QB 31 CHI TBD $2,000,000 UFA
Case Keenum QB 29 MIN TBD $2,000,000 UFA
Matt Moore QB 33 MIA TBD $1,775,000 UFA
Scott Tolzien QB 30 IND TBD $1,750,000 UFA
Teddy Bridgewater QB 26 MIN TBD $1,712,376 UFA
Geno Smith QB 27 NYG TBD $1,200,000 UFA
Kellen Clemens QB 34 LAC TBD $1,000,000 UFA
Tyler Bray QB 26 KC TBD $962,500 UFA
Chase Daniel QB 31 NO TBD $900,000 UFA
Joe Webb QB 31 BUF TBD $900,000 UFA
Josh Johnson QB 31 HOU TBD $900,000 UFA
Blaine Gabbert QB 28 ARI TBD $895,000 UFA
Jimmy Garoppolo QB 26 SF TBD $870,975 UFA
Austin Davis QB 28 SEA TBD $855,000 UFA
E.J. Manuel QB 27 OAK TBD $800,000 UFA
Brock Osweiler QB 27 DEN TBD $775,000 UFA
Brandon Weeden QB 34 TEN TBD $775,000 UFA
T.J. Yates QB 30 HOU TBD $775,000 UFA
Last edited by mac; 01/21/18 10:02 AM.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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AJ does not have the experience we need in a veteran QB. He may wind up being a solid starter but the Browns can't take the chance. They need to know what they are getting. No more backups.
I just want a winner. We need players who can be part of the solution not part of the problem.
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AJ does not have the experience we need in a veteran QB. He may wind up being a solid starter but the Browns can't take the chance. They need to know what they are getting. No more backups. Hue should have a pretty good idea what they ghad t with AJ... if he becomes a UFA the I think he's the most likely candidate... cousins is going to cost a ton and smith will take draft picks... I think you roll with AJ and draft a qb in the first four picks and sit him... then you have a vet qb thwt at worst should be able to win a few games while Kizer and a rookie learn....
<><
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AJ does not have the experience we need in a veteran QB. He may wind up being a solid starter but the Browns can't take the chance. They need to know what they are getting. No more backups. Hue should have a pretty good idea what they ghad t with AJ... if he becomes a UFA the I think he's the most likely candidate... cousins is going to cost a ton and smith will take draft picks... I think you roll with AJ and draft a qb in the first four picks and sit him... then you have a vet qb thwt at worst should be able to win a few games while Kizer and a rookie learn.... But is he? I don't see AJ as a true vet QB due to his lack of playing time...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I think I would be ok if AJ landed here. what's that got to do with anyth... wait a minute..... nvm
#gmstrong
A smart person knows what to say.
A wise person knows whether or not to say it.
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I think I would be ok if AJ landed here. what's that got to do with anyth... wait a minute..... nvm ...???
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Well - what other QB in the league outside of Dalton has more experience and knowledge of Hue's offense - correct nobody. Does that not count for more than a more experienced QB with no experience or knowledge of Jackson's offense. I think so.
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Well - what other QB in the league outside of Dalton has more experience and knowledge of Hue's offense - correct nobody. Does that not count for more than a more experienced QB with no experience or knowledge of Jackson's offense. I think so. Maybe Pryor .. I shudder to think this .. but if WR Pryor would have stayed in Cleveland last year, he would have been the most experienced QB on the team and the one with the most NFL wins.
The Cleveland Browns - WE KNOW QUARTERBACKS ( Look at how many we've had ... )
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Well - what other QB in the league outside of Dalton has more experience and knowledge of Hue's offense - correct nobody. Does that not count for more than a more experienced QB with no experience or knowledge of Jackson's offense. I think so. And I think not. I expect that you are correct in that both AJ and Dalton have more exposure to Hue's system, Dalton likely moreso than AJ. Knowing the system but having little playing time may be more problematic than having years of actual on-field playing time...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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He has 4 games and a playoff game under his belt. No different than Garropolo in terms of on field experience and how did he make out with his first 5-6 games. Not saying AJ and Jimmy are equivalent, but I believe there is something to be said for sitting for 4 years in the NFL and completely understanding the system you will be expected to play under vs. learning an entirely new system, potentially, and being expected to be successful out of the gate as a veteran such as Smith.
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I think I would be ok if AJ landed here. what's that got to do with anyth... wait a minute..... nvm ...??? I got thrown off there, someone was actually talking about the thread itself. nvm-nevermind
Last edited by texaslostdawg; 01/21/18 03:04 PM.
#gmstrong
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Gotcha... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Makes sense. Somewhat better and probably cheaper than Cousins.
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Does Nick Foles enter the equation with a $7.6M cap hit? Or do they suck it up to keep him behind Wentz. Will he ask to be traded? I saw an interview with him before the Eagles/Falcons game where he said he was about to retire until the Eagles asked him to return as Wentz' backup. Something tells me he's done when his current gig is over. I don't normally quote myself, but I wanted to add onto this previous post. To me, more likely than Nick Foles is Case Keenum. Foles was close to retiring but was convinced to come back to his original team. Keenum is possibly the odd man out in Minnesota. If we're looking for a vet to sign for 2-3 years and be a bridge/backup for drafted rookie, a good case could be made for Keenum (see what I did there?).
1. #GMstrong
2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb
3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa
4. ClemenZa #1
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I think Keenum might be a good option, but will Minni let him go?
I know some will freak out, but Bradford might be a good option, as well.
I am afraid that Teddy has not really recovered.
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Keenum will most likely get the franchise tag, in my opinion.
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum AJ McCarron thread
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