DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Hue Part 4 .. How much rope does he have ..

Almost the entire thing. It was biased, slanted article that used a mix of hyperbole, misconceptions, and deceit.

Interesting...I thought that article was spot on. I frequent another Browns board and the 'football' guys there have been on Hue's case all year about not putting Kizer in position(s) to succeed by making things easier on him...rather than insisting that Kizer do things he simply could not. That was my takeaway from that article.

And this is a perfect example of why it's called "The Spin Zone".

Do I think Hue could have done better? Yes. Do I think that NOT knowing what Kizers capabilities were/are is worse than 0-16? Yes.

I'd say we're 3/4 of the way to knowing what we have in the kid.
I'm not overly impressed but his toughness and work ethic make me want to see him a little more.

That's why we are here! That stuff is addictive; lowers the bar for everybody and everything.

With a story title claiming Hue Jackson explains why he is a terrible HC and a sub-title claiming Hue knows only one way to do things. It promises that Hue Jackson himself explains all this.

Then, Dude takes ONE Jackson quote-- [the new GM “told him his goal is to bring him the players that fit the coaches”] -- and the author turned that one, single quote, on one, single subject, into the rest of the article making a number of different conclusions on the information contained in that quote.

People need to learn how to read closely rather than jumping to outrageous conclusions just because someone tells them to do so.

The gist of that article is that Hue is inflexible in his systems and demands of his players...AND...that he needs players that fit HIM as opposed to being able to build a successful team around the talent of his players.

I don't need any quotes from Hue or Dorsey to see that in the way Hue has coached this team.

So if the talent is pretty much equal, you draft players that don't fit into how your scheme works?

See this is a basic concept. ALL HC's want their team to draft players that fit into the system they want to run.

How many HC's do you think tell their FO "please draft players that don't fit into my schemes"? I mean seriously?

They took a common theme that every coach wants and used it to try to be Hue specific. It's just not.

So when you dratft players do you draft BPA or BPA for Nue?

Maybe we will be undefeated in the preseason, that has to stand for something, right?

Seriously, I agree with Peen, we need to see signs of life (and that means a couple Ws, not close losses/moral victories)...

BPA for your team.

So guys like McVay miraculously went to a team (fresh) that just happened to have the kind of players that fit his desired, ironclad, system? C'mon man! Of course you try to get guys that fit your desired mold. Your argument fits fine for long-tenured coaches who earn the luxury to - over time - get the players that fit their mold. In the meantime, you coach to the players you have. Hue's "argument" excuses his being unable to succeed - to the point of even winning ONE game?

The scary thing is sometimes the other team takes away what you want to do and with the players you have...the coach has to adapt week-to-week to what works and what doesn't - regardless of what the coach 'WANTS' to do. Hue could not adapt over the course of two years to the point of winning more than one game...my confidence is extremely low that - even after getting "his guys" - that he will miraculously adapt week-to-week or half-to-half with his preferred roster.

Lastly, what is the mold that Hue prefers? What does he do that stymies the other team? What identity does Dorsey draft for Hue?

The gist of that article is that Hue is inflexible in his systems and demands of his players...AND...that he needs players that fit HIM as opposed to being able to build a successful team around the talent of his players.

I don't need any quotes from Hue or Dorsey to see that in the way Hue has coached this team. [/quote


I think it's also telling when you look the period of Kizer being replaced.. Kessler and Hogan come in with a full game plan and all 3 have the same problems.

When all your QB's with varying skill sets all display the same problems.. that's a coaching issue. I talked about this way back under Shurmur when both Weeden and Colt, two guys with 2 completely different sets, displayed the same exact problems.

All this aside, if Hue isn't going to take the steps to adapt the game to what he does have, he needs to shut his mouth about how he's been trying to win each game.

Hopefully Haley's arrival makes my point moot.

I don't know trying to win in the NFL with an offense from college football and college football players seems to be a problem an OC would have dealing with.

I think Hue looks inflexible on offense because he lacked the players to execute the plays he called so he went down to bare basics. How many times did we watch Hue looking exasperated and shaking his head after he would call a play and they executed it so poorly. I honestly felt bad for him.

The article was written by an amateur and it was beyond horrible. I am not surprised that some of our posters liked it, though.

Id say the rope got a full year now

And in the last quarter of the season when Hue was riding Kizer on the sideline a lot harder, I saw a few times where Kizers response looked like he was surprised he was getting chewed out because he did what he was told to do. I also saw once or twice where Kizer kind of had that look of "I'm over it".

This is just speculation, but I think the A.J. trade under via Hue's insistence had more impact than just Kizer saying he has to play better. It damaged that HC/QB relationship.

If you have to adapt your offense so significantly that it almost mirrors that college offense, then that QB probably shouldn't be behind center to begin with.

And clearly the WRs were an issue. I don't think even TONY would dispute that. But the roster you have is the roster you have. Did we have the WR talent to run an offense of long developing plays, guys who could consistently get open when and where they needed to? I don't know.

I'm clearly not an X's and O's kind of guy and I will certainly admit there were many times the players screwed the pooch. But as a casual observer it just seemed like our offense was a square peg in a round hole... we kept trying to shove in that square peg that was close to fitting but didn't instead of rounding off the edges a little bit and getting it to work.

I mentioned before, I do get the value of implementing a system and expecting your players to fit or grow in to it. And I do believe that it is important to not lose sight of that end goal in the midst of any adaptations.

I've been hatin' on Hue a fair amount since Sashi got let go. But I am willing to bring my opinion of him back to where it was prior to: that being a guy who is capable, but found himself a bit in over his head.

This Haley hire encourages me because it always seemed the Steelers had an answer on offense. And when they found success in one aspect, they kept pounding it and pounding it until you stopped it. If you did, then they had something else ready to switch to.

Absurd is a 1-31 record. That's all we need to know. 1-31. Worst start in NFL history. 1-31.

Thanks for sharing that. I could not have figured that out on my own.

However, some of us know that when you completely blow up a roster that these types of things might occur.

Ignore him Vers, that's all he's got.

Okay.

Quoting "1-31" might be "all he's got"...but that is one heck of a lot more than what Hue has to back himself up with.

So...you don't like the article because of who wrote it and because you don't agree with it. That does not qualify as 'horrible'. What about the specific accusations he made?

Specifically...did Hue attempt to make life simpler for Kizer or not? Did Hue adjust to his talent? Did Hue manage the clock/timeouts/challenges poorly or well?

You asked me a question. I answered. You don't agree w/my opinions. That's fine. I do not wish to argue. I have tired of it on this board.

Believe what you will...

Hue could have done better and win some games but not enough to be meaningful in the big picture of things. He is smart enough to get better I think or I would have a pitchfork too. At some point you got to let new head coaches grow and learn like you would a new player.

This will be season three so I expect to see some improvement. Serious Improvement. Like Hue said, "Words don't mean anything at this point. The only thing anyone will believe are wins." So, he has one more season. Let's see if he gets it done. IF NOT the next HC might already be in the building.

Next HC if Hue doesn't have this team showing growth by mid-October.
Bank that.

I think we definately improve after this draft. If these guys cant use this many great picks to improve the team then their reputation will turn to worse than mud. I mean seriously hate Sashi all you want but the many set us up to be in a GREAT position in this draft and to take the next step.

Hue's here, a solid staff has been installed and this thread should die. I don't exactly love Hue, I'm sure I could if he rights this thing but at this point it is what it is and we may have THE most professional staff since the return.

I think it's the best coaching staff and FO by far.

Indeed so. That still has nothing to do with next year. We might win 10 games. Each year is a different deal.

I get on Hue myself, but I am not closing the door on him. For everybody involved, I hope we start winning games from the get go.

Humm, once they fire Hue, it will be a good one, not the best IMHO,but good.

The way it is right now, with Hue... its the worst in the NFL.

And honestly I don't see KC and GB has powerhouses in the NFL....

LOL... not even expansion teams could do it. Only Hue....1-31 and counting

It's blasphemy that some people believe the FO is more to blame for 1-31. That simply isn't true. This very well could work out but Hue had to change his philosophy. The hiring of Haley as the OC is a step in that direction.

I agree about the philosophy end of things. I think the Haley hire is an emphatic "Or else!"

Line in the sand for Hue IMO. Change your approach; duplicating sorry coaching and player performance week after week will stop. Buying him time to do more than worry about the PS, which we sweat endlessly. Games. Win games. Or go.

I think we may have his replacement here now. If needed.

Amazing how some, including the owner, think Hue is entitled to a "or else"...

Just throw him in the lake and end this soap opera, no "or else's" . Its time to move on, the sooner the better.

Isn't this the same thing that has been said, about the staff, the last two off-seasons?

You know, I wouldn't be surprised that if somewhere in Hue's contract that we don't know about it says that he is required to remain here for 3 years or there'd be some huge severance pay. This is just speculation, but it makes sense the way Hue had been acting this past season, Jim Donovan even commented about how it seems as though Hue went rogue. He acted all season as if he were invincible... so he may have known he'd be here a third year regardless.

The way we went through HCs the previous 5-6 years, I'd definitely want it in writing that I was going to be here for at least 3 years or I wasn't going to sign. So maybe....