Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 9 of 10 1 2 7 8 9 10
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,974
W
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
W
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 8,974
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Originally Posted By: GMdawg
Quote:
It seems like he is a difficult personality to work with.


Is Haley hard to work with or is Big Ben hard to work with???


I would say both. Ben used to fight w/BA, too. He certainly blamed the coaching after the loss. Haley has a rep for being very critical of players and he wouldn't even allow Ben to audible to a qb sneak. That seems way too controlling. Like him or not, Ben has been in the league a long time.

I think Haley is a bright guy, but this seems like an odd fit.
Haley was brought to Pittsburgh to do one thing - Change the offense to keep Ben healthy. It is widely known in Pittsburgh that they were given a mandate to NEVER put Ben in a spot to get hurt. There is more to it than meets the eye. I live in Pittsburgh market and hear about this everyday from the local beat guys.

It wasn't Haley that wouldn't allow it, it was a mandate from the FO/Owners to never put Ben in that play call.

Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 891
D
All Pro
Offline
All Pro
D
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 891
I understand what edromeo is saying about the OC being more then a play caller, but I also think to ask McAdoo or Mularky to come her and not let them call plays would be a bit off a slap in the face for them. I think Hue will give up the play calling for the right coach. But we’ll see.

Vers was also right Hue did run the ball more in cincy when he was cordinator, it was closer to 50/50, but I’ll pose this, and I truly have no idea what the answer is but think it’s an interesting question, was the game plan to run more Hue’s game plan or Marvin Lewis’ game plan? I think if we knew the answer it would give us the insight to know what happened here in Cleveland.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,693
Quote:
He was let go because he and ben did not get alone.


It might have made a world of difference if they had. thumbsup naughtydevil brownie


[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski

"Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield

#gmstrong
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,124
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,124
I agree with this. Somebody better be talking about philosophy of winning football games and attacking defenses. They can't be opposites. Hue needs to review and revise some of his; a 1-31 demands that. But if Hue is on notice and on a short lease, so be it! Haley should hang with a large part of his book and philosophy.

Simplify, simplify! I am more interested in seeing us do fewer things better, much better than I am in seeing everything sub-par. Strengths demand adjustments.


"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,435
Legend
Offline
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,435
Quote:
I would say both. Ben used to fight w/BA, too.


That's what I was getting at bro. I believe this was a power struggle between Ben and Haley. Haley lost. Of all the guys we have interviewed so far I would prefer Haley. I don't care if our players don't love him. Only that he gets them to preform.


I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Haley does have a history with fighting with others though.

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
C
Legend
Offline
Legend
C
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Originally Posted By: GMdawg
Quote:
It seems like he is a difficult personality to work with.


Is Haley hard to work with or is Big Ben hard to work with???


Both.

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,262
Legend
Online
Legend
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,262

In the end the guy has to get along with Hue.

When the talks turn to a person's personality it turns me off.

The reason is that type of comment is usually not verifiable. It is normally reports based upon other reports. You rarely hear direct from people that have first hand experience.

Kurt Warner thinks Haley is great. He worked with Haley directly. Warner has a great reputation as a locker room guy.

Here is what I see so far.

The people that have been hired are all heavy duty pros.
Some don't like Hue. Some don't like Williams. If Haley is hired some probably wont like him as well.

Dorsey has brought Highsmith and Wolf and some others all have the resume you want.

This type of group will attract players especially free agents. Players want good coaches. Coaches who will help them get better.

Say what you will but the Browns have coaches with that type of reputation.

If Haley is hired he has to work well with Hue. Hue of course is an offensive guy. So offensive scheme and game plan will have to be a joint collaboration.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
E
Legend
Offline
Legend
E
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Yup. I agree. That's the impression that I get.

He wears on people


Like Kyle Shannahan did? grin


Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!

GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 185
S
Practice Squad
Offline
Practice Squad
S
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 185
Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Originally Posted By: GMdawg
Quote:
It seems like he is a difficult personality to work with.


Is Haley hard to work with or is Big Ben hard to work with???


I would say both. Ben used to fight w/BA, too. He certainly blamed the coaching after the loss. Haley has a rep for being very critical of players and he wouldn't even allow Ben to audible to a qb sneak. That seems way too controlling. Like him or not, Ben has been in the league a long time.

I think Haley is a bright guy, but this seems like an odd fit.


It is Mike Tomlin that won't allow Big Ben to audible to a sneak, not Haley.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...rterback-sneak/

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
E
edromeo Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
E
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
Do you think Haley adopts Hues O or will he bring his own?
Both.

The big question is over the language of the offense?
Will the players learn Haley's verbiage or will Haley learn Hue's/the players verbiage?

If Haley is brought on I assume he would be the playcaller and would coordinate the offense autonomously BUT would clear/consult and sometimes receive direction from Hue.

e.g. Hue might say these are X things I want to emphasize in the offense and they will discuss and bounce things around and come up with their offensive identity. Then Haley's will implement the ideas from their discussion.

Then during the season/game to game Hue could can relay certain aspects of the offense/certain players to feature etc. that he wants to see and again Haley would go out turn those areas of emphasis into a gameplan. Hue might even coach a certain aspect of the offense RZ offense or 3rd down passing etc.

They will work on the opening script together and half time adjustments etc.

That's how I imagine it would work.

But one of Hue's tasks as HC is to manage personalities and make it all work.

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
E
edromeo Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
E
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
Originally Posted By: dean_fairchild
I understand what edromeo is saying about the OC being more then a play caller, but I also think to ask McAdoo or Mularky to come her and not let them call plays would be a bit off a slap in the face for them. I think Hue will give up the play calling for the right coach. But we’ll see.
Just in case my point was lost in my conversation with Ballpen; all I was saying that if Hue hires an OC and still retains playcalling it doesn't make the hiring a sham.

I agree that established OC's with a history of playcalling will want to continue calling plays and I believe they should.

But lets say they hire a Sean Ryan or Ken Dorsey as OC that I Hue imho is likely to retain playcalling.

Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,753
C
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
C
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,753
Originally Posted By: DeputyDawg
Haley does have a history with fighting with others though.


Correct, and one of those guys was Kurt Warner...who in the aritcle above says he'd work with him again.

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
One of those was also some guy in a bar on New Year's eve I believe.

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
E
edromeo Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
E
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com

The Browns and Haley, 50, are close to agreeing on a contract, and he should be named their first offensive coordinator under Hue Jackson soon, a league source told cleveland.com.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/01/all_signs_point_to_todd_haley.html

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805
K
Dawg Talker
Offline
Dawg Talker
K
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805
Originally Posted By: edromeo
By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com

The Browns and Haley, 50, are close to agreeing on a contract, and he should be named their first offensive coordinator under Hue Jackson soon, a league source told cleveland.com.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/01/all_signs_point_to_todd_haley.html


OUTSTANDING!!!!!!

The dude would not take the Gig if there was ANY questions about play calling.

And NO people. Dorsey didn't SHOVE this down his HC's throat.

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
E
edromeo Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
E
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
Trade for Landry Jones/Matt Cassell to help install the offense?

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Originally Posted By: edromeo
Trade for Landry Jones/Matt Cassell to help install the offense?


I'd rather have a 50 yr old Kurt Warner come out of retirement.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,556
Can't wait for Hue to find out who his OC is gonna be.

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
NFL channel announced it's final.

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
E
edromeo Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
E
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
Even if they don't play?

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
E
Legend
Offline
Legend
E
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Haley is definitely calling the plays. It could go either way on the language it all depends on what he and Hue decide on, I'm "Guessing" that they will opt to keep the current language and Tree. OL call will remain the same unless they change OL Coach.

I don't see why Hue won't give him his Play book and then Haley tweeks it with his plays and styles. But also a lot will depend on who his QB is going to be. And ??? will he have a say?

jmho


Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!

GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Originally Posted By: edromeo
Even if they don't play?


Especially if they don't play. Warner has shown he understands the system.

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
E
edromeo Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
E
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
Okay...

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
E
edromeo Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
E
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
I agree. Maybe start with Hues verbiage and gradually transition to Haleys (his verbiage is likely easier anyway)

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 320
G
2nd String
Offline
2nd String
G
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 320
Haley and Hue. Hope it works out. Can't understand why Haley would be interested in the Browns unless he didn't have any other offers. He has to know that this could be for only a year unless the Browns start winning. As in getting off to a good start next season is an absolute must. Haley should be able to help a lot.


I just want a winner. We need players who can be part of the solution not part of the problem.
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Verbiage is the toughest thing to switch and we have a bunch of young players. If we do switch, I would prefer a slow change as well.

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066
D
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
D
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066
If they don't see a necessity to change the verbage off the get go, why bother changing it at all? IIRC when Flip was our OC, wasn't it he that learned the verbage instead of forcing the players to learn a new one?


"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton

-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
If they don't see a necessity to change the verbage off the get go, why bother changing it at all? IIRC when Flip was our OC, wasn't it he that learned the verbage instead of forcing the players to learn a new one?



Well for one, in Haley's system, there are concepts that go with that verbiage. See my post here on the Erhardt - Perkins system.
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.ph...rom#Post1393419

Second the long verbiage in Hue's system doesn't help with all the delay of game penalties that we've had and the timeouts we've had to burn to avoid those penalties.

I'm not saying that they will change verbiage, but if they do I would prefer it slow.

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066
D
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
D
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066
Originally Posted By: DeputyDawg
Originally Posted By: DevilDawg2847
If they don't see a necessity to change the verbage off the get go, why bother changing it at all? IIRC when Flip was our OC, wasn't it he that learned the verbage instead of forcing the players to learn a new one?



Well for one, in Haley's system, there are concepts that go with that verbiage. See my post here on the Erhardt - Perkins system.
https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.ph...rom#Post1393419

Second the long verbiage in Hue's system doesn't help with all the delay of game penalties that we've had and the timeouts we've had to burn to avoid those penalties.

I'm not saying that they will change verbiage, but if they do I would prefer it slow.


Thanks for the link and there's some good info for the lay fan such as myself!


"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton

-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 891
D
All Pro
Offline
All Pro
D
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 891
I don’t know if it’s really as difficult as we all think learning a new system and verbiage, I mean they will have a whole off season, if the players can’t adapt to what sounds like a system that is a little easier with its verbiage then they probably shouldn’t be playing at the NFL level.

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Originally Posted By: dean_fairchild
I don’t know if it’s really as difficult as we all think learning a new system and verbiage, I mean they will have a whole off season, if the players can’t adapt to what sounds like a system that is a little easier with its verbiage then they probably shouldn’t be playing at the NFL level.


I'm leaning toward a quicker switch myself now the more I think about it. It's toughest on the WR's having to learn the concepts and all the routes for a given play. We will probably have two new WR's anyway. It's actually easier for a QB to learn and since we'll have a new QB, that's a plus.

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
E
edromeo Offline OP
Hall of Famer
OP Offline
Hall of Famer
E
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
That's a good point about the E-P verbiage being easier for the QB and that who it all really comes down to.

There is some sense in ripping the Band-Aid off and starting fresh with Haley's verbiage.

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,555
Legend
Online
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,555
"Dilly dilly!", anyone? rofl


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,425
L
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
L
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,425
dilly dilly..


I`m good with Baker... Playoffs is good enough for me.
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,815
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 6,815
Originally Posted By: cfrs15
Originally Posted By: Ballpeen
I only wonder if Hue feels in the least bit guilty when he looks all these coaches in the eyes and tells them they aren't good enough to be on his staff?

What about those coaches and their families when those guys have to go home and tell the wife they didn't measure up to Hue's standards?


Remember when he said he didn't hire an offensive coordinator because he knew the team was going to be bad and he didn't want that person to be the fall guy?


This is what Hue said when hired about not having an OC...

Quote:
January 16, 2016

“Right now in my mind, I don’t really plan on having an offensive coordinator, because I want to reserve that right to call plays,” Jackson said, via Cleveland.com. “That’s something that’s gotten me this job, so it’s something that you’re an expert at. You want to continue to work at that and keep that in your pocket so you can use it to help your team.”


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...ve-coordinator/

Quote:
December 7, 2017

“I got the job because of what I did on offense,” Jackson said. “I didn’t think it was fair to give anybody that title and not have a football team that was worthy of that guy to be the leader of it when I didn’t think it was where it needed to be. To me, you guys would have been telling me to get rid of him.”


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...ve-coordinator/

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 511
All Pro
Offline
All Pro
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 511
Well Haley will be seeing his former team twice a year as AFC North Rivals


August Back to School!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
D
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
D
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
That Dec 7 quote by Hue was spot on. No one was going to be successful with our QB room. He was right, fans would have been calling for him to fire the OC, just like they called to have him fired and/or to hire an OC.


#gmstrong
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 7,059
Originally Posted By: ddubia
That Dec 7 quote by Hue was spot on. No one was going to be successful with our QB room. He was right, fans would have been calling for him to fire the OC, just like they called to have him fired and/or to hire an OC.


In this instance, the fans would have been right; Hue did hire one...


When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,818
D
Hall of Famer
Offline
Hall of Famer
D
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,818
Originally Posted By: ddubia
That Dec 7 quote by Hue was spot on. No one was going to be successful with our QB room. He was right, fans would have been calling for him to fire the OC, just like they called to have him fired and/or to hire an OC.



The interesting thing is Hue had no idea what his QB room would look like when it was time to hire an offensive coordinator.

Page 9 of 10 1 2 7 8 9 10
DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Offensive Coordinator Cont.

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5