DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Fixing the Secondary Without Minkah-Fitzpatrick?

What are your thoughts on how to upgrade the Secondary Without Minkah-Fitzpatrick at #4?

How can it be done?

With Haley in town, the possibility of Saquan Barkley becomes a REAL possibility. Our Laveon Bell.

Obviously this would come at the expense of not landing Minkah-Fitzpatrick.

How can we do this? What options do we have in FA and Draft?

Wilson will be back, but we have no clue what he will be. So I'm looking for 3 things to upgrade the Secondary.

1) FS (FA or Draft) Who though? Eliminates Minkah-Fitzpatrick.

2) CB #1 (FA) Who though? Eliminates Minkah-Fitzpatrick.

3) CB #2 (Draft outside Top 4) Who though?

There's ways to do this without Minkah-Fitzpatrick, allowing us to snag Barkley at 4.

Build the Secondary with 3 Players NOT named Minkah-Fitzpatrick.

To really fix the secondary Minka is a great firat step. How? Sign a veteran QB (Alex Smith,Kirk Cousins etc) and draft Minka

FA Options:
Trumaine Johnson
Lamarcus Joyner
Beshaud Breeland

I'm thinking that we draft our qb at 1 and Fitz at 4. Draft another CB or two if they are w/in 1-2 spots of your Vertical board during the remainder of the draft.

We can also bring 1 or 2 FA corners.

That is how I would go about it.

This. I prefer fixing the secondary with Fitz than without. If he is there at 4 and we don't take him, I will be really pissed. Assuming we get QB w pick 1.

Derwin James

Free Agency - LaMarcus Joyner FS - Most recently LA Rams
Draft - trade up and get Josh Jackson CB Iowa

Done. I don't even need a 3rd guy

There are definitely ways to do it, but they all generally will result in just having a "bunch of guys" back there.

I don't think any of the options result in as dramatic an improvement in our secondary.
Regardless of whether we draft Fitz or not, however, we NEED to sign at least TWO top tier free agents in the secondary, and we need to draft a CB with one of the two 2nd round picks.

I tend to agree. I think we are going to be active in free agency. What we do there is going to change what we think we need to fix with the draft.

The draft is going to make us better. If we get 3-4 good players in FA, we might take a big leap.

Plus, to me you "fix" things in FA. That is totally needs based. Leave the draft to just get quality ballers.

I’m really hoping the Colts stay at 3 ... if so ... I PRAY they take Barkley ... if they stay at 3 it means Fitz will more than likely be available unless they plan to play him at CB ...

Passing on Fitz would be a very bad move .... he helps this particular team so much more than Barkley its not even funny ...

Yes, I don't think the Colts take Fitzpatrick. The only concern would be a team trading up, but that would most likely be for a QB, no?

I think without question Fitzpatrick is there at 4. I would even ink it in. And I think Dorsey wouldn't hesitate if Fitz is there, he's the pick even if Barkley is there.

I also think Chubb is a possibility for the Colts at 3. I've read that if Bell doesn't stay with the Steelers, the Colts would be a very strong possibility.

If were can't get Fitzpatrick then I would sign one of the top Free Agent corners (Trumaine Johnson, Malcolm Butler, or Kyle Fuller) and then draft a corner with one of our early 2nd rnd picks (Oliver, Alexander, Davis) then I would move McCourty to FS.

The top free agent corners will be signed in March, a month before the draft.

1. FA - Morgan Burnett (GB).
2. Draft with 2a Oliver CB Colorado.
3. Draft with 2c Justin Reid FS Stanford.

1a Darnold
1b Barkley
2b Kirk

I'd expect us to go big after some secondary guys in free agency (we tried to get several guys last year but whiffed). Morgan Burnett, LaMarcus Joyner, and Trumaine Johnson all make sense for obvious reasons. If that happens then it'll free up the fourth pick to do some different things.

^This. There are other good backs in the draft. While Saquon would be nice, it's not critical we get him. Guise could fall. Chubb is there, Sony Michele, Josh Adams, Kerryon Johnson. Any of these guys will serve as a workhorse back. The only way I would pass on Minkah is if Dorsey & Williams wanted Derwin James instead.

Not sure what you are saying......you sign free agents before you draft players. We can't count on Fitz being there at 4. If that is our plan, we need to readjust the plan.


Fitz is a top corner for those who don't know. I sign as many FA db's as I can. If it moves Fitz down the ladder, so be it.

Roquon Smith would be a great addition at backer. Who wouldn't want that guy? He's not getting much love and i am not sure why?

Yes I know. I was answering the question on how to fix the secondary if Fitzpatrick were not available. I sign a free agent CB, I draft a CB with one of our 2nd rnd picks and I move McCourty.

I can't see a scenario where Fitzpatrick isn't there at 4.

Not saying its absolute. But who takes Fitz at 2 or 3?

Our offense is horrendous. If we only like the top 3/4 QB's (Rosen, Darnold, Allen, Mayfield), I think it's best we pass on Fitzpatrick and get Saquon with #1 and get your QB at #4.

If we are banking on a QB falling, maybe Mayfield or Lamar Jackson, I say draft Saquon and Fitzpatrick, then trade back up into the late 1st to get your QB.

I think the offense is only horrendous because of the quarterback position. I think a lot of what happens with that position in the draft will be dictated by free agency.

I really don't see a need to draft saquon early if there's possibly better RBs later. And this draft seems loaded with RB. I wouldn't waste a #1 draft pick on a RB.

If someone really wants Rosen and wants to hop ahead of the giants to get him, say Denver, then do it and draft Mayfield and Fitzpatrick 4 and 5.

Sashi is gone. I doubt that the new FO would be dumb enough to allow a team--and especially a team in their own conference--to draft an elite qb and then settle for a lesser qb.

Unless we make a huge move in FA or via a trade before the draft, I don't think there is any way we move out of number 1.

I think moving down is a real possibility. I would be fine taking Mayfield at #1, but there's a lot of insistence that we could add future picks, trade back and still get our guy.

I do think however, if we add a stud QB in FA, that it's possible we trade back. I'm not a fan of it myself, but I think if they somehow sign Cousins I can see us trading back from #1 allowing someone to grab a top QB. At that point, we still take a QB, but more along the lines of White or Lauletta.

I think it's a lock that we need a Veteran QB, preferably a good one who will start day one. If that's Alex Smith or Cousins or even (gulp) Bradford from Minn, then we need to go that route. That way can pass on a QB at #1, trade down to get some more pics, draft a Barkley or Fitz, or BPA and go from there. But that all depends on how Hue and Haley feel about Kizer. Remember that Hue drafted him high. 2nd round pick is kinda high to just give up on Kizer, IMO. That's admitting failure.

What if we draft a Rosen or a Darnold and he's garbage in Year one (like a Trubisky or a Goff) do we just shuffle him down the depth chart and draft another the next year? Where does it end?

Nope, get the vet QB, stick with Kizer and get the best players with #1 and #4.

If It's Bradford or a McCarron type I guarantee we will take QB @ #1 but I would say if it's Smith or Cousins we won't ... JMHO

Ridiculous, Draft the best QB or who the Browns think is the best QB at #1 and quit screwing around. We are not smarter than everybody else. Forget Allen, Mayfield and Jackson.

You can't say draft the best QB and then say forget Baker Mayfield.

But I agree we shouldn't play games, just draft Mayfield #1.

Anyone who is at 5-10 and wants to jump ahead of us to get him?


The only way I can see us not taking him is if we sign both a top-tier CB and a Pro Bowl FS in free agency. Period. Literally, unless the secondary is completely fixed for the long-term in free agency, I just cannot see it. It is still, by far, our largest weakness and the area more direly in need of attention across the board. By comparison, literally every other position group on the team is completely set.

Is it , Fixing the secondary without Minkah Fitzpatrick,

or is it, "upgrading" the secondary without Minkah Fitzpatrick at #4.

Either way, I just want to chime in, get on record that I think

committing to coaching better results out of Jamar Taylor, Jason McCourty, and Briean Boddy-Calhoun and using that foundation is a step toward fixing the secondary.

Along with Kindred, and also Peppers.

And get everybody to know their roles, and add in one solid piece at a time, and pretty soon, you have something.

I like the look of Watts out of Texas as a FS; also Kameron Kelly (San Diego St) as a CB/S type. Holton Hill is another guy who I think may be a good one who may be there mid to late (strictly as a CB). Also Bates (Wake Forest) is intriguing as a latter round pick.

I would still like Josh Jackson though. Pretty please. Derwin James is highly touted and the next best FS prospect after Fitz.

I think, notwithstanding free agency, we need a deep safety and at least 1 CB. If Wilson returns, then that's more depth.

Folk have touted McCourty at safety. He has been great for us but it would be a band aid given his age. Burnett (Packers) may be an option but he's struggled to stay healthy.

If we can somehow move up in this draft and pick best offensive player (QB or Barkley), Jackson and Fitz, that would us SET for a decade.

1.1 QB or Barkley
1.4 Fitz
1.12 or so Jackson (send 33rd, 35th and Philly's 2nd or 3rd round pick plus later round picks).

However, the draftnik in me hates the idea of sacrificing all the 2nds. I would then maybe stand pat at 33 and see who falls - someone will. If Ward or Jackson are still there in the 20s, I'd be keen to see if we could use some of the capital to move up and snag them.

I think I’m missing something when I watch Fitz. It’s not that I don’t like him but I’m not seeing a special player, solid but not special. I personally wouldn’t take him at 4. I don’t think he will be able to play corner in the nfl, if I thought he could he be more valuable to me. Think he’s a solid prospect at free safety but isn’t on the level of a Ed Reed, or even Eric Berry. I know a lot on here won’t agree with me on this and that’s fine, I have been wrong before.

Yeah, he's not freakishly athletic like Derwin James or Jalen Ramsey. He isn't slow or weak though, he's a very solid player. He's my best player for these two reasons, he's super versatile, he can cover a WR #1 or play center field as a FS. He has the athleticism for both. His also defensive IQ is also off the charts. I think he's going to be a pro bowler for many years to come, if not an all pro. He's just super versatile and smart, exactly what you need as a defensive back today.

I've thought about the question in the OP and I just don't think it's possible to fix the secondary without Minkah. Mainly because there is not a good enough FS in free agency and he's the best FS in the draft. I also think we'll sign a CB in free agency this year no matter what.

Good post. I think he will be an excellent FS who can cover WRs if we ever play Cover 0 or Cover 1. We can also use him to cover outstanding TEs if we want to. His versatility is off the charts.

He seems like he is smart, I've watched the Tennessee and Arkansas tape and unless i missed it, i did not see him lineup at deep safety once. If that's what Williams has intended for him id like to see him do it, can you direct me to a game where he did line up deep?

He played corner but is being projected as a FS in the pros. He doesn't have elite speed for corner, but will be able to cover guys in nickel and dime defenses. He is extremely intelligent and has great instincts. His versatility will allow teams to use him all over the field and offenses will have to account for him.

CB is deep in FA and the draft.

FS is not so deep in FA and the draft.

I really would prefer figuring out a way to get Fitz with James as a plan B if we can't.

There are a lot of directions we could go at Corner.

Looks like we will in fact go after a CB and Safety in FA.

We've seen the names.

Would inking the likes of Boston or McDougle at Safety and Johnson, Butler, Colvin or Fuller at CB with a returning Wilson be enough to not take Minkah-Fitzpatrick?

Especially if Barkley is sitting there at 4 and he is our #1 or #2 BPA in the entire draft.

What an amazing decision to have to make. I'm just flipping Giddy!

I don't think it should matter who we sign in free agency, I don't think we can pass on Fitzpatrick at 4 if he's available. And if we do for some reason I don't think we do so for Barkley. I'd imagine it'd be for a DL. I really don't think Barkley is in play for us at 4 or even 1.

Glad to see I'm not the only one still questioning minkah. Hes the safe pick, he smart, good character. I get the pull and i wont be upset because barring injury i cant see him busting. But outside of intangibles I don't see him as a top 15 talent imo. I really dont think he has all pro ability. At least not for us. I think a team running balanced safeties would get more out of him.

He plays more conservative than I like for what we would use him as, doesn't break down or wrap consistently, has no tape in deep zone but doesn't show great feel in middle or shallow cementing in place too often. That's basically it so he is pretty clean but just isn't a huge playmaker and lacks tape for what we'd be using him for. Not unlike projecting peppers to ss leading me to believe minkah may fall if he doesn't show great hips as a CB in Indy. I see him similar to Adams last year. Stable but not a game changer.

Overall I feel we can get someone who may not be as good overall or as safe but actually better as a centerfielder and a lot less expensive in the 2nd. Or honestly derwin has very good tape as a free safety and plays like a man on fire. Not as safe a pick but he has the skill set to ascend as a true difference maker unlike minkah imo. Either that or sign Joyner. Hes exactly what Gregg wants in his angel

That’s where he played(from the tape I’ve watched), most of the time, nickle and dime corner, I did go back to 2016 and watched the LSU game and one other and he did play deep safety then, looked much better doing it too. He also played on punt coverage and was exceptional doing that.

I like the versatility, but still don’t see him as a top 5 pick, but understand why some like him that high.