DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The New Front Office

Well if you are asking if I believe it was 100% analytics, no I don't. But from what I did see, I felt that analytics was an overriding factor. That too much emphasis was being focused on analytics.

My first inkling of that how they addressed the WR position in that first draft. 2016 was a very weak draft class at the WR position. Most fans who follow the game understood that. Yet we decided to draft Corey Coleman which I found questionable, but not out of the realm of being somewhat realistic.

But then we go into the mid rounds and draft three more WR's? Guys who in a talented WR class would be seventh rounders are UDFA type players. It was then that I felt it had to be a numbers game making those decisions.

And let's look at the QB position. From a strictly numbers, BPA standpoint, there are almost NEVER a QB worth the #1 pick and in some cases even the top 5 when considering the actual players on the board. But football people fully understand that the QB is the most valued position in football.

With that said, it elevates QB's in the draft. Their draft status is increased purely based on position. Here we were, one of the worst teams in football at the QB position, yet in one draft we take a QB rated in the 5th to 7th round from a talent standpoint, and draft him in the 3rd round. The next year, we pass on better QB's to take a flyer on a kid that is the 4th QB drafted at the #52 draft slot. The top priority was to get a QB and the method employed to do that certainly wasn't a sound one.

None of these decisions indicate that football people were making those decisions. It looked to me like analytics, while maybe not the only factor, it was certainly the overriding factor.

Not everything is black and white. It could have been 70% to 30%. It could have been 60% to 40%. That I can't be sure of. But with so many drafted players having such a high SPARQ scores, it seems to me pretty obvious that numbers were used more than anything else.

I don't think it is a matter or "convincing". I think all people, including Dorsey saw this situation as a front office's wet dream. Young talent, a number of picks, cap space, etc. Especially for guys like Highsmith and Wolf, if they latch on here and things start working out, they'll get all the credit and potential GM jobs in no time. If the team falters, they can blame a trigger happy owner and an HC that was on the way out anyways.

Either way, odds are favorable for both of these guys' career. I personally don't see Wolf sticking around too long anyways. I think he get a GM post sooner rather than later.

Agreed. I think it's an easy way to pad their resumes.

Fixed it for you, mac...

x3


Spot on.

Yes, I am happy thus far w/what Dorsey has done. I have some hope now. I had none when Sashi was here. Thank God he is gone!!!

With that said, it's very early in the process. Let's see how he handles FA and the draft.

And yet we've had extra picks and huge cap space the last couple of years and look where it got us. Only when you use those picks and cap space properly do you achieve success and nobody has done that so far. You only pad your resume' if you can do your job.

Agreed. Why hasn't Sashi even sniffed an interview if was doing such a great job here in Cleveland. Some folks are in denial.

For someone who wanted Sashi to stay, it sure sounds like you're not too upset about his departure.

1) If you don't think the Browns are in a great position because of things Sashi did then you're simply not paying attention.

2) Amazing how many posters want to keep bashing Sashi when he hasn't been here for 2 1/2 months. Hmmmm..... I guess some people just can't let go...

Says the guy who claims he didn't want Sashi fired.

Do you have any actual proof he has not had any type of interviews? Or is this an assumption on your part?

Is he still getting paid by the Browns?

And we were set up last year as well. And actually the year Sashi came here. Had the can have not been kicked down the road we wouldn't be in this position. Of course we would have Carson Wentz too. So there's that. So yes, we are in a great position. I just hope we have the people in charge to actually use the picks instead of kicking the can down the road again.



Amazing how our entire roster rests squarely on Sashis shoulders and people are trying every trick in the book to try to silence people on the topic.

You really need to read up on what "kick the can down the road" means.

It doesn't mean what you think it means.

The person who didn't want Wentz is still here.

Sashi did some good and liked a lot of what he did but he wasted 17 mil on a 2nd roud pick only to release your team leader on defense. He fixed the Ol problem he created. Hue udnt want Wentz but sashi was in charge.

Sashi has this team in great shape going forward but I do trust Dorsey, Wolf and Hightower to make smart decisions where I didn't trust sashi and company to do so.

Keeping hue is awin win for the front office as well. He turns it around they were genius for keeping him. Team sucks it was hue we gave him a shot.

I would have canned him week 8 but I understand.

According to some. Problem is, Hue didn't run the draft, Sashi did.

Hue just happened the QB expert that can't seem to pick, groom, handle, or adapt to QBs.

Clearly they still have to do a good job.

But its not like the only thing being handed to them is the picks and cap space. They are also inheriting a fairly solid foundation of players. Assuming we've still retained Hue and Gregg by next season, there's very little reason to believe there will be a roster purge. Dorsey and Co. Dont have to start over from the beginning building this thing. The framework is up. They just have to put on the siding and the crown molding.

You know, actually Sashi didn't have to do that either. But that was the plan to do it that way.

Here's what we know. Sashi made all of the final decisions on the draft. That was his job. Everything you just posted is your opinion without you knowing anything that went on behind the scenes to back that up.

So which "great QB" did Hue mess up with? The great Kessler? Or the extremely accurate Kizer?

If nobody will give you a QB worth a damn, there's not a lot you can do.

Watson and Wentz and tried to trade a 2nd and 3rd for AJ from the Bengals. Piled to much on his rookie QB and stop running the football. Said "TRUST ME" on the Kessler pick and " the world moved under his feet" about RGII, didn't want McCown to QB but be a coach.

You really need to quit posting opinions and what you think happened as facts. It's not very becoming of you.

Mike Silver, Hue Jackson's brother from another mother (his words not mine), confirmed that Hue Jackson didn't want Carson Wentz with the second overall pick. He also confirmed the RGIII comment.

I believe Hue Jackson was taking the bullet for Sashi Brown with the "trust me" comment (I said it at the time).

We don't know anything about DeShaun Watson.

It would make sense that Hue Jackson was the one pushing for the A.J. McCarron trade (he used to be his coach and has made a similar trade in the past), but we don't know fo sure.

You do know that it was Depodesta that said Wentz wouldn't be a top 20 QB, right? What should Hue have said? Hey, I wanted Wentz but those guys outnumbered me?

Sashi's job was to give Hue the QB's that he wanted.

RG3 moved the Earth for Hue or his loins or something

Kessler, "trust Hue on this one"

Get rid of McCown = Hue

Pass on Wentz = Hue

Sashi did that job and Hue threw him under the bus like he did his players.

Paul DePodesta made that comment long after the draft. Mike Silver has since confirmed Hue Jackson's stance numerous time. It is possible that neither liked Carson Wentz, which would make sense because we traded out of the spot.

Yes sometime the truth will get you what you want.

Actually, according to Hue.

jc...

The point I'm making, in the NFL, EXPERIENCE DOES MATTER....especially when attempting to hire top talent.

Below, the Browns announced a couple more coaching hires and confirmed the Todd Haley hire.



Browns make Haley, Jones, Kitchens hirings official
The Browns announced the hiring of their recently added assistant coaches.

link

BEREA, Ohio -- Hue Jackson announced today that the team has named Todd Haley as offensive coordinator, Amos Jones as special teams coordinator and Freddie Kitchens as running backs/associate head coach.

“We’re thrilled to bring Todd Haley in as our offensive coordinator,” Jackson said in a release. “I’ve known Todd for a very long time and have respected and admired the job he’s done as a play-caller in this league. He’s a coordinator that has been successful in every place he’s been. He has been a guy that has adjusted his offense to successfully complement and taken advantage of the skillset of his personnel. I’ve witnessed firsthand how prolific his offenses have been in the AFC North over the last six seasons. As I reflected after the season and contemplated adding an offensive coordinator to the staff, my first thought was obviously improvement.

"If I was going to turn over the play calling duties to someone else, it had to be to someone that was experienced and had a long history of success in this league," he said. "We were going to be patient about it because there is always a lot of movement in the early part of the offseason. When Todd became available, I jumped at the opportunity to meet with him. Once we sat down and talked, it became quickly evident that Todd would be a great fit.

"Adding Freddie Kitchens to our staff as running backs coach and associate head coach is also very important," he said. "First off, Freddie is a very good coach that has a bright future in this league. He has coached multiple positions and gotten a lot out of his players. Additionally, we’re going to be installing a lot of new concepts and elements to our offense. It’s important to have coaches on your staff that will know and understand the new system. Freddie has a history with Todd and that will make the process of installing the new elements of the offense much more efficient. Obviously, we have a lot of work to do this offseason. I’m excited about the additions we’ve made to our coaching staff, and I’m especially excited to work with Todd to put together a productive Cleveland Browns offensive system that will get us winning quickly.

“Amos Jones is an experienced special teams coordinator that we think will do an outstanding job leading and improving our unit,” Jackson said. “We always talk about how the three phases must complement each other in order for team success to come. Amos has worked under really good coaches throughout his career and has helped develop some really good core special teamers. I’ve said this already this offseason, we have to get better in every area to become the type of team our fans deserve. Amos is going to be a part of that.”

Haley said he's excited to work with the Browns.

“This is a great opportunity,” Haley said. “The Browns have a great history, great fans and deserve to have some fun and experience some winning. I want to help be part of that process. There is obviously a lot of work to do in order to get there, but I’ve always been excited about facing a challenge.

"There is no better feeling than when you can be a part of turning an organization around," he said. "Hue and I have had some good battles in competing against each other as coordinators and even as a head coach. We know each other well and I have a great deal of respect for him. He’s so competitive and winning is the only thing that’s important to him. You want to work with a coach like that. Hue and I share a lot of similar beliefs on how to be successful on offense. We have to score points, protect the ball, protect the quarterback and develop players. It’s not too complicated, but at the same time, it is a great challenge. We are really looking forward to getting to work on it.”

Haley has spent the past 21 years coaching in the NFL, including the past six as the offensive coordinator for the Pittsburgh Steelers.

With the Steelers, Haley oversaw one of the top offenses in the league. The Steelers led the NFL with six offensive players selected to the Pro Bowl this past season. Under Haley, wide receiver Antonio Brown led the NFL in receiving yards in 2014 and 2017 and led the league in receptions in 2014 and 2015. Brown also became the first player in NFL history to record five consecutive 100-catch seasons (2013-17). He was named to five Pro Bowls and selected as first team All-Pro four times. Running back Le’Veon Bell finished in the top three in the league in scrimmage yards per game in each of the last four seasons, including leading the NFL with an average of 157.0 yards per game in 2016. Under Haley, Bell was selected to three Pro Bowls and was named first-team All-Pro twice. Quarterback Ben Roethlisberger was selected to the Pro Bowl the past four years and tied for the NFL lead in passing yards in 2014. Haley also helped center Maurkice Pouncey and guard David DeCastro to multiple Pro Bowl selections.

Haley was the head coach of the Kansas City Chiefs from 2009-11 and helped the Chiefs capture the AFC West division title in 2010. He compiled a 19-26 record. Kansas City led the NFL in rushing yards per game (164.2) in 2010.

Prior to Kansas City, Haley was the offensive coordinator for the Arizona Cardinals for two seasons (2007-08).

During his tenure with the Cardinals, the team won its first division title since 1975 and advanced to Super Bowl XLIII. In 2008, Arizona set a franchise record with 427 points and became just the fifth team in NFL history to have three wide receivers eclipse 1,000 yards in the same season.

Haley spent time as wide receivers coach for the Dallas Cowboys (2004-06), Chicago Bears (2001-03) and New York Jets (1999-00), helping each team advance to the postseason. He began his NFL career as an assistant in the Jets scouting department in 1995, where he scouted regionally and assisted in player evaluations.

Kitchens joins the Browns after 11 seasons with the Cardinals.

“I am so excited to be joining an historic franchise such as the Browns that has demonstrated a willingness and desire to compete for championships,” said Kitchens. “I look forward to the opportunity to work with Hue, John and the whole organization, while we work together to achieve the desired success.”

He spent 2017 as running backs coach. He was also quarterbacks coach for four years (2013-16) and tight ends coach for six seasons (2007-12).

During his time as quarterbacks coach, Kitchens helped Carson Palmer establish multiple single-season team records, including passing yards (4,671), touchdown passes (35) and passer rating (104.6). Palmer also became the only player in Cardinals history to throw for 4,000 yards in multiple seasons (2013, 2015-16). In 2015, the Cardinals had the top-ranked offense in the NFL for the first time in team history and set numerous single-season team records including points (489), touchdowns (59), touchdown passes (35), total net yards (6,533) and first downs (373).

Kitchens began his NFL coaching career in 2006 as the tight ends coach with the Dallas Cowboys. In 2006, Kitchens worked with Jason Witten who was selected to the Pro Bowl.

Prior to the NFL, Kitchens spent seven years coaching on the college level with stops at Mississippi State (2004-05), North Texas (2001-03), Louisiana State (2000) and Glenville State (1999).

Jones most recently, was the special teams coordinator with the Cardinals the past five seasons.

“I’m really excited about joining the Browns,” said Jones. “I got to know Hue from coaching against him in the AFC North and have always admired his passion and knowledge of football. I miss coaching in the AFC North, so getting back to this division is going to be very exciting for me. It’s obviously a highly competitive division where the margin for error is small, so you have to be extremely sound as a special teams unit. I think I have a pretty good feel for the Cleveland fans and look at this as a great opportunity to come in and help flip the organization. Working with John Dorsey is something I also look forward to as a special teams coach. His track record speaks for itself as a guy that knows how to put talent on a football team. As a special teams coach, it’s comforting to know the guy making those decisions about who is on your football team once had 35 special teams tackles in a season. I can’t wait to get to Cleveland to start working with the staff to help create a unit on special teams that will make a difference.”

Jones has 37 years of experience as a coach on the high school, college and professional levels. He has spent the past 11 seasons in the NFL.

During his five seasons at Arizona, Jones helped Justin Bethel (2013-15) and Budda Baker (2017) to Pro Bowl selections as special teams players. In 2014, kicker Chandler Catanzaro tied the NFL record for the most consecutive field goals to begin a career with 17 and set a Cardinals rookie record with 114 points. In 2013, punter Dave Zastudil tied for the NFL lead with 35 punts inside the 20-yard line.

Prior to Arizona, Jones spent six seasons in Pittsburgh. He spent his first five seasons (2007-11) as assistant special teams coach and 2012 as special teams coordinator. He helped the Steelers win Super Bowl XLIII. Jones helped develop Antonio Brown who set a franchise record in 2011 with 2,048 all-purpose yards with 1,062 yards coming from returns. Brown earned his first trip to the Pro Bowl as a kick returner following the 2011 season. In 2009, the Steelers led the NFL with a franchise record 1,581 return yards. In 2008, Pittsburgh had the NFL’s top kickoff coverage unit.

Jones spent three seasons with Mississippi State as special teams/linebackers coach (2004-05) and outside linebackers coach (2006). He was the tight ends and special teams coach at James Madison in 2003. From 1999-02, Jones served as the special teams and running backs coach at the University of Cincinnati. He helped Jonathan Ruffin earn the Lou Groza Award as the nation’s top kicker in 2000.

Jones also has collegiate coaching stops at Tulane (1995-96), Pittsburgh (1992), Alabama (1981-82, 1990-91,) and Temple (1983-88). He coached on the high school level in 1989, 1993-94 and 1998. In 1997, Jones was an assistant coach for British Columbia of the Canadian Football League.

A former player at Alabama (1978-80), Jones played safety and running back under head coach Paul “Bear” Bryant. He helped Alabama to back-to-back national championships in 1978-79 as the team recorded a 23-1 record during that span.

For all of your Browns news from Berea follow @FredGreetham on Twitter

I don't know that he has or hasn't.


I am not saying he will or won't, but it isn't uncommon for a coach or front office executive to collect pay and take a break.

So, apparently Hue did not "worm" his way out of hiring an OC.

Apparently, his "ego" wasn't the issue in hiring an OC.

So, what does the Hue Hate Club have left? Hmmmmm....let me guess? Haley was forced on Hue by Dorsey.

LOL----no matter how much evidence is provided that Sashi was the problem rather than Hue, the Hate Club will never admit and they will find a new and creative way to trash Hue.

But, they don't want him fired.

I have a silly question.

I really don’t understand how Haley became available from the Steelers.

Was he canned after the loss to Jacksonville?

That seems like the most probable but slightly unbelievable decision by the Steelers as they gave a lot of teams fits during the season.

Sometimes a good D beats a good offense and the Steelers put up a bunch of points in a losing effort.

I have no inside information, Charger. But, this is what I think went down.

Big Ben and Haley have clashed since day one. Big Ben threw Haley and Tomlin under the bus about the play calls after several games, including the playoff loss where there were 4 questionable calls on 4th down plays.

There were limited partners of the Steelers organization calling for Tomlin to be fired after the playoff loss to Jax.

Big Ben might have went to management about firing Haley and whether or not he will play next year[I'm less certain of this one than the other two, but it has been reported as a possibility.]

Thus, given a choice between Big Ben and Haley and also to pacify the limited partners about their outrage over the playoff loss and questionable calls...........Haley's contract was not renewed.

Does that help?

sooo...after this last year of hearing non stop about getting football guys in our FO.

do we have enough yet? lol

Pep Hamilton was the fall guy in Indy. I think they had to move on and Pep got the boot. I think the same thing probably happened in Pitt. They were stinging from a sound defeat and somebody had to suffer the consequences. Haley was Tomlin's fall guy due to his personality/issues with Ben R. The odd thing is...why not their DC? I mean, they conceded 75 combined points from Jax in both Week 5 and Playoffs. They scored 51, (42 in the playoff game alone). Not re-signing Haley's contract yet, retaining the DC seems odd.

can't rightly remember, but I think I read that Patrica might be headed to an HC job?...

Haley's contract expired with the Steelers. Steelers chose not to renew for whatever reason.