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Yes Thomas is going to be a great left tackle, excellent pick. I just hope Frye plays a lot better this season and doesn't turn the ball over. With a much better offensive line and a decent RB he should be better it would seem. Right now I'm concerned most about our defensive line. Doesn't seem like that unit is very good, and there are 0 guys on the team who will starting defensive linemen for us 5 years from now.
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Oh and btw, anyone who was upset about picking Thomas...don't be, the guy is the real deal from what I saw...best movement from any of our linemen, including Steiny and cannot and will not be bullrushed.
Remember, they are only wearing shorts right now.. JT will / should be good but he IS a rook. He'll get schooled a few times this year.
What do you mean only wearing shorts? They were hitting and hitting hard with pad today.
I was speaking metaphorically and inaccurately regarding what they are wearing. My point was that JT will have a learning curve. Hopefully it's a short one. Hows that?
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The DLine of 5 years from now can and will be addressed later... it sure as heck isn't happening in 2007. The DLine of today is better, if only marginally, than the one of last year. It isn't likely to be good and definitely not great, but it's good enough to go to battle with. It has to be, we don't have a choice 
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Quinn would not easily win because he was worse than Frye and Anderson all OTA's and minicamp. Guess that isn't saying much about Quinn seeing how little you think of Frye and Anderson. He's not all world like Charlie Wies tried to sell him as, he's a typical rookie QB.
No one can take isolated instances, (like one practice here and another there), and draw any conclusions from them. But it seems many do, and worse yet, most of the time it is fueled by the media. Even our local media, (who'd you'd like to think would be watching our backs by giving us accruate and truthful information on our team), try to create controversy where there is none by blowing an errant throw, a fumble or a dropped pass way out of proportion.
I'll say this about Quinn in regard to your last sentence, Quinn may or may not be your typical rookie QB. First, one would have to define "typical rookie QB".
Tim Couch came here never having had a playbook until he signed with the Browns. Quinn, at the other end of the spectrum, has worked in a pro-style offense for the past two seasons in college. I'd think all the other rookie QB's fall somewhere in between those two scenarios.
What is typical about Quinn is that he is new to the NFL. He will struggle just like all the others with the speed of the game and the complexity of the defenses he will now face. Although he should pick up the offense quicker than many of his peers might simply because he was coached on a pro level, he is still a rookie in all other regards.
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Being there myself, Frye and DA both looked like they didn't belong on the field...and Dorsey looked like the best QB today. I hope Quinn gets into camp soon, because he could easily win if this is how they play all camp.
Quinn would not easily win because he was worse than Frye and Anderson all OTA's and minicamp. Guess that isn't saying much about Quinn seeing how little you think of Frye and Anderson. He's not all world like Charlie Wies tried to sell him as, he's a typical rookie QB.
Did I say he would easily win period? I said if they play the way they did today he COULD easily win the job...so cool out.
you had a good run Hank.
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Oh and btw, anyone who was upset about picking Thomas...don't be, the guy is the real deal from what I saw...best movement from any of our linemen, including Steiny and cannot and will not be bullrushed.
Remember, they are only wearing shorts right now.. JT will / should be good but he IS a rook. He'll get schooled a few times this year.
What do you mean only wearing shorts? They were hitting and hitting hard with pad today.
I was speaking metaphorically and inaccurately regarding what they are wearing. My point was that JT will have a learning curve. Hopefully it's a short one. Hows that?
Indeed...but I don't think JT has that much of a learning curve...he'll struggle, but not as much as people think...he is pretty polished already and right now better than any LT we've had since 99.
you had a good run Hank.
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Actually, I think he'll struggle plenty. Maybe even enough for the impatient to doubt the pick.
He's never faced the level of compititon he is about to deal with. Wimbley will be a good teacher for him as will Willie G. But there are DE's that he'll face who will put speed and moves on him that will confuse and befuddle him. Hopefully, and I believe it true, that he'll correct his mistakes quickly and won't get beat by the same moves often. But he will get beat. We just need to have patience with him.
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Actually, I think he'll struggle plenty. Maybe even enough for the impatient to doubt the pick.
He's never faced the level of compititon he is about to deal with. Wimbley will be a good teacher for him as will Willie G. But there are DE's that he'll face who will put speed and moves on him that will confuse and befuddle him. Hopefully, and I believe it true, that he'll correct his mistakes quickly and won't get beat by the same moves often. But he will get beat. We just need to have patience with him.
I think that's a reasonable expectation, but is nice to hear from someone at practice today that he looks like the real deal.
I have draftpickbustophobia...so this is nice to hear.
And you never know, he could surprise some people and not have that many hiccups.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Being there myself, Frye and DA both looked like they didn't belong on the field...and Dorsey looked like the best QB today. I hope Quinn gets into camp soon, because he could easily win if this is how they play all camp
I wasn't there, but you did take into consideration that they are all learning a new offense?
Just curious....
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lol @ the Travis Wilson comment... that is funny...
and I'm glad Barclay is in camp too... can't wait to see him do this thing.. watch out Wright..
i'm surprised the Leon Williams band wagon didnt jump in here with the comment about him..
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Being there myself, Frye and DA both looked like they didn't belong on the field...and Dorsey looked like the best QB today. I hope Quinn gets into camp soon, because he could easily win if this is how they play all camp
I wasn't there, but you did take into consideration that they are all learning a new offense?
Just curious....
Frye looked like he knew the plays, just didn't have the arm to do hit down field. DA on the other hand looked completely lost, but could sort of cover with his arm. Frye looked, to me, a lot like last year and DA looked like pure garbage.
you had a good run Hank.
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J/C
In the second session the o line went against the d line about 10 yards in front of where I was sitting. Wimbley line up against Thomas and blew right by him. They did it again and Thomas ended up on the ground trying to block him. Some smart alleck in the crowd (you know who you are) yelled "Welcome to the NFL Joe." The third time was a charm.
From what I saw Rob Smith doesn't have any chance of making the team. He got blown up twice in a row, the second time getting knocked right on his butt (Baba). Frye did throw on pick that I saw on a deep wheel route to Vickers.
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Barclay looked pretty decent to me. Harrison looks much bigger and ran real nice routes out of the backfield. Lewis looks like he may be the fastest back.
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DB Gary Baxter (knees) didn't practice, but is expected back Monday.
He practiced today.
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DB Gary Baxter (knees) didn't practice, but is expected back Monday.
He practiced today.
How did he look?
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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To be honest I couldn't really tell. In the first practice I couldn't see very well and the second practice they were on the other side of the field. I know there were other dawg talkers there so hopefully they will chime in.
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Thanks for the updates Pdawg. 
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DB Gary Baxter (knees) didn't practice, but is expected back Monday.
He practiced today.
Ok, somebody help me out. Romeo just said he may be activated Monday, but I know I saw him out there today. He was kneeling on the sidelines with Hamilton while the first team was out there. Hamilton went in, and Baxter disappeared. Where did he go?
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I'm sorry for the wrong info. I forgot Baxter changed his number.  I saw Wright from a distance and thought it was Baxter.
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i was about to suggest that u were probably looking @ Wright...
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I was speaking metaphorically and inaccurately regarding what they are wearing. My point was that JT will have a learning curve. Hopefully it's a short one. Hows that?
That's better, you're not allowed to use metaphors in Pure Football. 
...always have been, always will be...
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The use of metaphors in Pure Football only serves to cause a tsunami of negative reaction. Similes will be tolerated, but metaphors are a turd in the punchbowl when used in this forum. 
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I'd ask if allegories were ok but I'll probably get scolded...
...always have been, always will be...
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All are better then when someone feels iambic pentameter is the best method to convey their message.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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References to Gulliver, Watership Down, or The Four Horsemen Of The Apocalypse are definitely verboten. 
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All are better then when someone feels iambic pentameter is the best method to convey their message.
I don't know, Willie (Shakespeare- not a linebacker) did OK with it.
...always have been, always will be...
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Frye looked like he knew the plays, just didn't have the arm to do hit down field. DA on the other hand looked completely lost, but could sort of cover with his arm. Frye looked, to me, a lot like last year and DA looked like pure garbage.
This is one of the things I am most anxious to hear from people's observations from camp, as it is the only "uncorrectable" knock that many have on Charles.
Even though he says he has been working out, you can only toss a football so far, regardless of your guns.
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or people need to stop downing the guys arm and just see if he makes the play..
if he can make the play... there is no need to talk about his arm strength..
if Frye can make the play... then he is our starter.. simple
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Linkage CAMP sights and sounds Sunday, July 29, 2007 3:36 AM Berea, Ohio • Recap: The Browns had their first two-a-day of the summer. The highlight was scrimmages in the morning that featured the first contact of camp. Second-year linebacker Leon Williams had the biggest pop on backup running back Jason Wright, stopping him in his tracks. But the offense won as three quarterbacks completed a high percentage of passes and the offensive line consistently moved the line of scrimmage on running plays. • Day's best: Safety Brodney Pool made a good read to intercept a pass by quarterback Derek Anderson in stride. Pool returned it approximately 10 yards before running out of bounds. • Position battle: Rookie cornerback pick Eric Wright stepped in on his first day of training camp and worked with the first and second team. Wright, a second-round pick, missed the opening day of camp because of a delayed flight from the West Coast. … Joshua Cribbs also has an early leg up on the open punt-return job, said special teams coach Ted Daisher. • Rookie watch: No. 3 overall pick Joe Thomas had a solid day at left tackle, starting in the morning when he blew up linebacker Matt Stewart on a short passing play. Saturday also marked day two of the training camp holdout for quarterback Brady Quinn. • Itinerary: Today, the Browns will have one practice from 2:30 to 4:30 p.m. • You're invited: Parking is tight during the first weekend of training camp, particularly during the even-ing practices. Carpooling might be the best option. • Quotable: "If we execute it, it'll be great. It we don't, it will be like the other one. It comes down to being efficient." -- tackle Ryan Tucker, on the Browns' new offense • Cybercamp: Visit dispatch.com/sportsblogs today for updates and insights from practice. -- James Walker
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• Quotable: "If we execute it, it'll be great. It we don't, it will be like the other one. It comes down to being efficient." -- tackle Ryan Tucker, on the Browns' new offense
Looks like RAC is rubbing off. 
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hehe, but it is also probably the most accurate statement you will hear about this or any other offense.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Firgure this is the best topic to put this in instead of starting another QB topic.
I went back and re-watched all of Frye’s turnovers last year. Here’s what I saw.
The plays I put and * next to are plays I don’t think you can really blame Frye.
1: INT vs NO – LB looked like he was clearing out, Frye threw it and LB stepped back and made a nice pick
*2: Fumble vs NO - Frye credited with fumble in handoff exchange error with Harrison on a draw play – monster penetration by NO disrupted the play – (Harrison in his 1st NFL game, looked like he was more worried about what he needed to do to not get creamed than get the handoff)
*3: INT vs NO - Pass off of BE's hands and into the defenders
4: INT vs Cincy – Ball tipped at line of scrimmage then intercepted
*5: Fumble vs Cincy - Frye hit before he can even get back to hand it off to Droughns
*6: INT vs Cincy – Pass off of Droughns’ hands into the defenders
*7: INT vs Baltimore – Frye hit in back while throwing into the end zone for BE
8: INT vs Oakland – Frye pump fakes short then throws a pass 55 yards down field that gets picked
9: INT vs Oakland – Stupid high popper throwback across the middle into the end zone that gets picked
*10: INT vs Carolina – Pass off of Northcutt’s hands and into the defenders
*11: Fumble vs Carolina – Peppers drills Frye on a sack causing a fumble
12: INT vs Carolina – With 2 minutes left in the game, and CLE down 11, Frye forces a pass trying to make a play
13: INT vs DEN – 3rd and 7 from the DEN 40, Frye feels pressure and throws for the end zone and the ball gets picked
14: INT vs Jets – 3rd and 7 from the CLE 5, Frye buys time, then throws down the left hand sideline and gets picked at the 41 yard line
*15: INT vs SD – Frye throws to BE, BE catches it but the defender hits BE’s arm and the ball comes loose and another defender then dives in and catches it
16: Fumble vs SD – Frye avoids sack but stumbles and then the ball pops out
17: Fumble vs ATL – Trying to buy time to throw a Hail Marry at the half Frye was sacked and fumbled the ball
*18: Fumble vs Pitt – Andruzzi completely whiffs on his block, (he was late getting out of his stance), Frye gets drilled in the back and fumbles the ball
*19: INT vs Cincy – Frye picked off on a Hail Marry at the half – Frye threw it 65 yards (plenty of arm strength if you ask me)
20: INT vs Cincy – Down 23 with under 5 minutes left in the 3rd quarter, Frye’s hit while throwing a 20 yard out to BE, gets picked – Frye was unable to step into his throw
21: INT vs Cincy – Down 23 with about 2 minutes left in the 3rd quarter, Frye’s standing in the end zone and feels pressure all around him and looked scared to take a hit or get sacked for the safety, he threw it and spun to lessen the hit, he threw it waaaaaay to early to JJ on a deep out and it gets picked.
*22: INT vs Cincy – Down 30, 88 yards from the end zone, with under 2 minutes left in the game. On 4th down, Frye's outside the pocket and tries to force a pass in and it gets picked.
23: INT vs Houston – Frye picked off in the end zone trying to get the ball to BE
*24: Fumble vs Houston – Frye was trying to throw the ball but defender hits ball out of his hands, officials rule his arm was not going forward
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So.... You're defending a guy with 24 turnovers last year?
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So.... You're defending a guy with 24 turnovers last year?
Another guy that didn't watch any games. Congrats.
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Might as well put this too.
I know how much most of you hate QB Ratings but here goes.
8 out of the 13 games Frye started last year he had a higher QB Rating during that game than the opposing QB.
0 out of the 3 games that Anderson started last year he had a higher QB Rating during that game than the opposing QB
As a team 8 out of the 16 games the Browns played our QB's had a higher QB Rating than the opposing teams QB.
Sorry people, but if our QB's were so bad I doubt they would have ever had higher QB Ratings during a game than our opponents QB, let alone 50% of the time.
If you want to know why we were so bad, then look at the D-Line and the O-Line. We couldn't run it and we couldn't stop the run. That's why we went 4-12.
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Hey Mensa,while you are it,can you go back and analyze all the incompletions Frye threw last year. I'm sure only 20-30 was his own fault,and the rest was the WR's,TE's and RB's fault.How many scoring drives did Charlie engineer?
heres what you are forgetting..last year is last year.Its done.The only thing that matters with Frye is the present day. Has he progressed,regressed or essentially stayed the same from last year.But then again we may not really know until the live hitting begins.
All I know about Frye is that he is not the long term answer for the Cleveland Browns at QB.So you better enjoy while he's able to start.
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So.... You're defending a guy with 24 turnovers last year?
Another guy that didn't watch any games. Congrats.
My buddy/roommate is an intern at channel 5 and was talking to Reggie Rucker the other day, he thinks that Anderson is pretty much a lock to be starter because he has a better grasp of the O. Said Charlie is a country boy who's a tad slow but watches hours of film, whereas Anderson watches a little less but gets it better. Plus Anderson has the better physical skills.
How much Rucker actually knows behind the scenes is beyond me, but we'll soon find out.
I'm just telling you what he told me, and yes, he's legit.
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So.... You're defending a guy with 24 turnovers last year?
Another guy that didn't watch any games. Congrats.
My buddy/roommate is an intern at channel 5 and was talking to Reggie Rucker the other day, he thinks that Anderson is pretty much a lock to be starter because he has a better grasp of the O. Said Charlie is a country boy who's a tad slow but watches hours of film, whereas Anderson watches a little less but gets it better. Plus Anderson has the better physical skills.
How much Rucker actually knows behind the scenes is beyond me, but we'll soon find out.
I'm just telling you what he told me, and yes, he's legit.
Funny a guy getting paid Millions for his football knowledge, Romeo Crennel, ever heard of him, says Frye's still in the lead. Hmm, Reggie Rucker or Romeo Crennel. I wonder who's decision it will be to start which QB?
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What was Charlie Frye's rating in the 4th quarter alone,Mensa.....
A QB's job is to put the offense in position to score TDS 1st and then if you have to,settle for a FG.....
I know that I'm probally off,but Charlie Frye led to the Browns offense to 140 PTS when he started.
In only 4 games that he started did the offense generate over 20 points..
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If Frye and Anderson had played more consistent football last year, the Browns wouldn't have moved up to draft Quinn. Plain and simple.
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