DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Film Breakdown: Baker Mayfield

So...........you wanna make that bet?

With odds for sure. I think Vegas has it 1000-1 that Mayfield is the first pick, but I'll be nice and take 100-1, so my $1 vs your $100. Cool.

LOL................well, I would surmise you aren't very confident that we will draft Baker at number one if you want 100 to 1 odds. LOL

So, perhaps you stop the charade.

The one time I play fair and you're trying to stack the deck....

1000-1 is fine then.

If you can't accept 1 to 1 odds, then please stop saying that the Browns are going to take Mayfield w/the first overall pick.

Also, this is interesting...

Yes, the play fair was a little jab your way...


And also I don't believe I ever said the Browns will draft Baker #1, I said I would and the Browns should. And I believe it's far more probable than most think. I believe if we pick someone at #1 it comes down to Rosen or Mayfield (previously thinking it was Darnold or Mayfield).

This is a general response, just quoted this to talk about his height.

Can I just talk about Baker Mayfields height for a minute. (And for anyone who reads this, Vers. seems to prefer Rosen, and I'm more fond of Mayfield,)

It dawns on me, It can't matter, if the Height of Major College football players is the same height of NFL players,

And if the height of Mayfield when he's in College is the same as his height will be in the NFL.

Unless there is some growth spurt akin to kids in adolescence to be expected and that the defenses Mayfield has been up against in the past is going to reach taller heights then what this kid is doing agains major college competition is the same to be expected, (height wise) in the NFL.

People can say there is a different launch point of the football, but the thing is, Mayfield's arm release point will have been the same for the last 4 years as the next 4, (barring some "change" like a coach changing a golfers golf swing.

But to assume that, would be to assume there's something wrong with the way Mayfield has been releasing the ball in the first place.

And one wouldn't assume that or he wouldn't be a leader in production.

And let me talk about the taller Quarterbacks.

You see what gets me when people want to discount or overlook, or nay say all of the good results that someone like Mayfield has had, is that

All the other quarterbacks, the taller Quarterbacks,
Well how many starts did they get, in college football?
How many games did they play?

Did they play major college competition?

OK, so my point is They had the same opportunity to score 119 touchdowns, but they didn't

Even though they were taller? Even though they were taller.

But they did a lot, they did a lot,
But this guy did it when he was shorter? When he was shorter,
sooo it's a more remarkable achievement, because he was shorter?
No, no, no it's not, it's not a bigger deal that this guy throws a touchdown while standing 6'0 3/8ths

and another guy does it at 6'4 ish.

It's not. The height is meaningless, see,

Unless, the guys he's played against so far, are shorter, markedly .

And I'm pretty confident, that in 2014-2017 in College football, the tall guys are already there

and the argument that's going to come, that says that only the tallest guys go to the NFL,
is an argument that's full of holes.

If someone doesn't like the guy, just say ya don't like him, but you can't change what he's done on the field.

I'm Pumped. But cautiously optimistic, they might take somebody else.
But if they want this guy, they are 1st on the clock, so Yay!

So if it is down to either Rosen and Baker, you still want 100 to 1 odds? LOL

I'll tell you what............I will give you 2 to 1 odds for $100. Cool?

So you're giving me Rosen and Baker, you get the field and I get 2-1 odds?

Hmmm... I still think you're better off with just Baker and the 100-1 odds.

I have to be careful though because I don't think you'll pay up.

Throw? Height DOES MATTER.

Joe Thomas on NFL Live yesterday made some great points about Mayfield being a shorter than average QB.

It pertains to seeing over the OLine guys. He says it's alot harder for OLine guys to block for a short QB, specifically for the Tackles.

Why?

Shorter QBs need to take DEEPER DROPS. Which in turn makes your Tackles have to take DEEPER DROPS in order to not allow a pass rusher to get around the corner.

Strike One on Mayfield.

He also said that the Shorter QBs because of the results of DEEPER DROPS, need to escape the pocket quicker resulting in NIGHTMARE scenarios for an OLine Tackle. Drango and Coleman would get their Asses handed to them with Mayfield back there.

Strike Two on Mayfield.

There is NO POSSIBLE WAY the Browns will even think about taking Mayfield at #1.

Throw? Size DOES MATTER.

You're probably right, guys like Russell Wilson and Drew Brees will never make it in this league.


Unfortunately for us, I think Mayfield is Dorsey's guy. He checks all the boxes, and whether it's the 1st pick it 21st pick he may very well end up in Cleveland.

I agree with Kwhip - height does matter.

If it didn't we would have seen a lot more shorter QB's be successful in the NFL ... Brees, Wilson, Mayfield are not the first and only talented 'short' QB's to ever play in college or the NFL.

It adds an additional challenge and obstacle to overcome - it will take a truly exceptional QB to overcome the additional challenge. Personally I think Mayfield is good enough to overcome the issue .... but I do not think I take the risk with the #1 overall pick. Not with stand out QB's like Rosen and Darnold who have prototypical size AND are also poses elite QB skills/talent.

Brian Sipe was a tad under 6'1" ... Just Sayin'

Found this which is interesting and relevant:

http://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-50s-tim-tebow-would-have-been-an-offensive-lineman-2011-10

The average guard, tackle, or center in the NFL in 2011 is 6-foot-5 and about 310 pounds.

In the 1970s, the average offensive lineman was 6-foot-3, 255 pounds.

Height only matters if you let it hinder your game. Baker does not.

Quarterbacks are not drafted #1 for a variety of reasons. The media and fans seem to over emphasize height and arm strength and anyone who comes along who excel at those two things should be drafted high and the rest will fall in place.

This is why guys like Allen are looked at as potential #1 picks by fans and media. People think you can fix accuracy. I could say Mayfield has a much much much better chance of being drafted higher than Allen, but some people just can't see it based on height and that rocket arm. I guess we'll see come draft time.

I agree to some extent - though Rabdall Cunningham is the QB I think of as ahead of his time. The problem with Vick imo - he was not very smart, I prefer smart QBs, even if they are freakish athletic... think of the 2 "best" (subject to opinion) all time QB's - Montana and Brady - neither is freakish athletic in any way shape or form.

j/c


I have read numerous comments, tweets, and scouting reports from this past week at the senior bowl practices.

It's funny to me how there are still comments about how the Browns won't draft Mayfield #1 because you can't take a "short" QB at #1, or #2, or #5, or top 10. To me that's just ridiculous. Why would you risk losing the best player because he's not 6'2"? I mean really. You're willing to risk the best for a lesser taller player? Makes little sense.

I'm glad Dorsey said his plan is "Best Player Available." He's not going to put silly outliers on drafting players like height must be 6'2". I'm also glad he said he wouldn't draft a QB based on height in an earlier interview.

I know it's fairly early in the process but the quarterback who checks all Dorsey's boxes is Mayfield. There's still some vetting that needs done with the other quarterbacks, and I'm excited to see what else we learn about Mayfield. I hope we don't mess around and just draft him #1.


Also, this was fun!

Yahoo Sports' Charles Robinson reports there's "a fit developing" between the Browns and Oklahoma QB Baker Mayfield.

"A lot of what he is as a player fits with John Dorsey," a league source told Robinson. "Just his makeup, John believes in building around those kinds of guys. I think he’s a strong candidate for the top pick after this week." Mayfield has been the best quarterback in Senior Bowl practices, outshining Wyoming's Josh Allen. Mayfield draft stock is trenindg up coming off a Heisman winning season. Despite size concerns, it won't be surprising if Mayfield ultimately lands in Cleveland with the first-overall pick.

Related: Browns
Source: Yahoo Sports Jan 26 - 8:01 PM

http://www.rotoworld.com/sports/nfl/football?r=1

I am okay with us taking Mayfield at #1 overall. The one plat that did for me was vs Georgia. He moved the with his eyes then hit his Wr in the hole that movement had opened up. Senior bowl cemented it for me. Lots of reports how Baker was the leader there and the players just gravitated to him. Seems like anytime we here those reports the player turns out to be a pretty good.

I am okay with Rosen. I love the way he throws the ball.
I am okay with Darnold. He is a little further out but I think he could be something special.

If we don't come away with one of those 3 then I am going to be extremely disappointed.

I wasn't even alive for Brian Sipe. We are talking about 30 years ago, the players are bigger and faster.

Arizona Cardinals
Carson Palmer, 6’5”

Atlanta Falcons
Matt Ryan, 6’4”

Baltimore Ravens
Joe Flacco, 6’6”

Buffalo Bills
Tyrod Taylor, 6’1”

Carolina Panthers
Cam Newton, 6’5”

Chicago Bears
Jay Cutler, 6’3”

Cincinnati Bengals
Andy Dalton, 6’2”

Cleveland Browns
Robert Griffin III, 6’2”

Dallas Cowboys
Dak Prescott, 6’2”

Denver Broncos
Trevor Siemian, 6’3”

Detroit Lions
Matthew Stafford, 6’3”

Green Bay Packers
Aaron Rodgers, 6’2”

Houston Texans
Brock Osweiler, 6’8”

Indianapolis Colts
Andrew Luck, 6’4”

Jacksonville Jaguars
Blake Bortles, 6’5”

Kansas City Chiefs
Alex Smith, 6’4”

Los Angeles Rams
Jared Goff, 6’4”

Miami Dolphins
Ryan Tannehill, 6’4”

Minnesota Vikings
Teddy Bridgewater, 6’2”

New England Patriots
Tom Brady, 6’4”

New Orleans Saints
Drew Brees, 6’0”

New York Giants
Eli Manning, 6’4”

New York Jets
Ryan Fitzpatrick, 6’2”

Oakland Raiders
Derek Carr, 6’3”

Philadelphia Eagles
Carson Wentz, 6’5”

Pittsburgh Steelers
Ben Roethlisberger, 6’5”

San Diego Chargers
Philip Rivers, 6’5”

San Francisco 49ers
Colin Kaepernick, 6’4”

Seattle Seahawks
Russell Wilson, 5’11”

Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Jameis Winston, 6’4”

Tennessee Titans
Marcus Mariota, 6’4”

Washington Redskins
Kirk Cousins, 6’3”

Notable Backups
Matt Barkley, 6’2”
Sam Bradford, 6’4”
Matt Cassel, 6’4”
Nick Foles, 6’6”
Jimmy Garoppolo, 6’2”
Paxton Lynch, 6’7”
Tony Romo, 6’2”
Mark Sanchez, 6’2”
Matt Schaub, 6’6”
Geno Smith, 6’3”




The rest of this is not directed at you.



The "Height doesn't matter" truthers are annoying, apparently they are smarter than every football GM out there right now. Recent history suggests that Drew Brees and Russel Wilson are anomalies and it would be such a Browns move to base judgement off anomalies. An analogy is like "Well Isiah Thomas made the all star team".

Wilson went in the 3rd round and he played in a PRO style offense! Wilson is also way more athletic! Anyone watching the Oklahoma offense that thinks that is going to translate to the NFL hasn't been watching closely. So let's break that down, anomaly 1, short and being great, anomaly 2 spread offense and being great. Put those two together, how many great QB's from spread offenses have we seen since spread offenses were implemented. 1 in what 20 years?


Look I like Mayfield in some aspects, he does have a good enough arm, it isn't great but it's adequate. I love his passion and I while I like his accuracy, I think it is over stated due to a variety of factors being int he big 12 principle among them. So he does have some good skills but to ignore the fact that we have almost never seen a sub 6'2 spread QB even make it in the NFL is akin to blind partisanship in politics. Some of you get so into "winning" an argument you turn into partisan Mayfield hacks.

Good arm, good accuracy, short from a spread offense in the big 12. He would be my 3rd or 4th choice int he draft. If I were at say 15-20 I would consider him a target, but we are at 1 and 4.

Quite a few 6'2" QBs in that list - 1.5" is that big a deal?

What is the average size of the O-line these days. I would venture to guess it is around 6'4", so all QBs 6'3" or less would have difficulty seeing over the line. It is about spacial awareness, subtle movements in the pocket to find throwing lanes. It is what Rodgers, Brees, and Wilson do so well. Mayfield has similar characteristics. He is accurate, throws a very catchable ball, a strong enough arm, anticipates well, seems to have a very high football IQ. Trade for Smith, Barkley at 1, Mayfield at 4. Just might happen. I think Dorsey really likes the kid.

it is a big deal. o-line are not standing at full height because good technique means their knees will be bent and they lose a good 2 inches or more in height. Awb standing upright can see over their helmets and see the entire field. A shorter QB CANT see the field. They have to look through throwing lanes which means defences can focus more on where they are looking because it will be a LOT harder for them to find another open guy in the short amount of time they have to throw the ball.

Who knows maybe mayfield will be just fine but its a BIG risk. We have some big, big dudes on our o-line so I even think that 6'4" should be our starting point.

Shorter QBs have to take deeper drops in order to see the field....it may take some adjustment from the rest of the offense OL sets, route depth etc. But a shorter QB is going to be able to see the field. He'll just have to take deeper drops to see.

Nice call Ed! Exactly what they're just talking about!

That's true, but it can also be problematic in terms of protection and how long it takes for the qb to release the ball.

Heck, Drew Brees often throws on his tip-toes. LOL...craziest thing I ever say. What he does best though is he slides into the lanes between the linemen. Wilson does take some deeper drops and rolls out at times. However, he is a lot faster and more athletic than Mayfield.

I am not saying Mayfield can't make it. I don't know. I will say that while people consistently point out that Brees and Russel have thrived, they don't mention the thousands of shorter QBs who don't make it. Hell, I was one of them and it is why I was switched to RB even though I had the best arm on the team.

I think we should take Barkley at #1, Mayfield should fall to #4... If he doesn't you get stuck with Rosen, Darnold or Allen!

It's simple physics. You need X height to see over Y obstacle. If you don't have X height then you will take longer to get rid of the ball and risk not seeing defenders because your view is blocked by giant boulders on top of mountain sized men =)

It's not impossible but it's pretty darn hard to overcome height obstacles.

Deeper Drops=More time in the pocket, more time to Release, more time for OLINE to hold blocks, then he has to leave the pocket and all hell breaks loose.

Joe Thomas broke it down PERFECTLY this week on NFL Live.

NO THANKS.

I cannot for the life of me see ANY GM worth a lick even THINKING of a QB like this at #1 in ANY draft. Even if he was the ONLY QB in the draft.

Not when you've got 2 QBs available with Proto-Type Measureables sitting there. And Accuracy.

This is a Darnold and Rosen 2 Horse Race folks. Period.

I laugh when Dorsey says good things about a QB and these Clowns jump right in on the "??? Is a possibility at #1".

Let's not over react here.

~50+ % of snap are from shotgun anyway. The QB is already at the depth they need no time difference there.

Then you have can throw out the runs plays, no time issues there.

On the "deeper" drop back depths we aren't talking about a 2s difference. It could be as simple as taking wider strides in 3 step or adding a half step in "5" etc. Heck if the QB is quick enough the time difference in drop back is offset by the quickness of their footwork.

Actually, I think you should name them.

And then if you could, make that much shorter list of the "tall" quarterbacks who didn't make it.

Trust me, the "height matters" people are just as annoying. The number of people here that would still draft RG3 over Russell Wilson is alarming.

So you're saying you feel better with Mayfield @ 4? Do you think he'll last that long?

The only aspect of the height discussion I disagree with are those that are those that dismiss a QB prospect because of height.

Height/size are definitely factors to consider. But they are only pieces of puzzle that covers several skills, abilities, intangibles, production etc.

Is height a factor? Absolutely. Does height preclude a QB from being considered or having success? Absolutely not.

Will you do me a favor and stop replying to me? Talk to guys like Vambo. I'm tired of your nonsense.

Actually, if you could play fair, not make every post personal, and just talk football your time here would be more enjoyable I'm sure.

I was talking football and didn't make anything personal. Here it is again.





You come back w/this nonsense:



So again, please stop replying to me. I don't want to talk to you. I will not reply to you, as well. The board will be better off.

This is where I trust Dorsey, much more than the homeless guy who whispered in Jimmy's ear. From where I sit, I can't rule in or out the big four (Rosen, Darnold, Allen, Mayfield). There are plusses and minuses with all, and we all know them. But I'll bet at least a couple of them are legit and Dorsey will know. He's a real, actual, genuine talent evaluator with a track record to prove it. Been a while since we had that!
He will take the one he wants at No. 1 and won't mess with whomever "falls" to No. 4. We'll get a playmaker at No. 4 no matter what.

I pretty much agree w/your take, Big G.