DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Dorsey and our future.

But then we'll have two quarterbacks that struggle to reach the footballs on the top shelf.

I'd sign cousins

Draft Barkley at 1 Fitz at 4.

3 birds 2 stones

That could work. I still like trading the #1 if we didn't have to drop too far. I think we could find a partner in the top 5 picks and gain 2-3 first rounders.

That would be hard to pass up. In that scenario, the only concern I would have is missing out on Fitz. I do not want that to happen.

If we could sign KC there is no need to draft a QB #1. We already have a QB we could develop in DK and we could keep KH as a #3. We can then fill in our other holes and draft a playmaker high, Barkly and Fitzpatrick would be the 2 I'd look at with #1 and #4. I'd like to see what Todd Haley could do with DK. I don't think he got the coaching and attention he needed last year and he is still young enough to teach as long as his confidence isn't shot.

Supposing that happens it would just go to show how much we gave up when the opportunity presented itself. We would be giving up on the next Carson Wentz or better while the league laughs at us as usual.

I still don't think KC would sign here. If he did that scenario where we don't draft a QB #1 could work. I still think our best bet would be to sign Alex Smith and draft whomever John Dorsey thinks can be our franchise QB. JMO

Whether or not there is a need to also draft a QB is the debatable part.

Here's how I see it...

If we sign Cousins, then we are saying he is our franchise QB. That's just the reality of the situation. Whoever our franchise QB may be, we MUST surround him with weapons. To me, signing Cousins and then drafting a Rosen at #1 would be no different than drafting Rosen at #1 and then drafting Darnold at #4. Sounds silly, right?

I had my doubts about how Sashi would've handled this decision, but I believe we have the best guy we could possibly get in the driver seat for this draft (Dorsey and his team). If he signs Cousins, I'd say that pretty much guarantees we are going straight BPA and not even looking at QBs until late first (with a trade up) or early second.

While it probably would be crazy to totally pass on the top QB talent available in the draft, I'm not so down on the idea behind Cousins. Bring him in w/o giving up any draft capital, draft monsters at the RB and FS position (or trade back a little bit to build future draft capital) and still get a very good RB/FS to pair with the monster you drafted. We could sit back and pick up a high-ceiling QB that is falling to sit behind KC (and we also have Kizer who could benefit by sitting and thinking about what he's done).

Good points. Many different scenarios. Many different directions we could go in and they all would improve us. Looking forward to see what JD will do. As Browns fans we may finally have something to look forward to.

I tend to agree with you even though I have seen people that say we will sign Cousins and draft a QB #1. There's no way Cousins would sign here under such a scenario. I think it's a long shot to even believe that Cousins would sign here in the first place. I mean we all know Hue is on a one year deal at this point anyway. What really good QB who will be in demand and fielding multiple offers would want to sign where he knows the HC may only be here for another year or less?

Sure he'll be looking for money. But if people don't think stability will be another key ingredient in his decision, I believe they are being short sighted. Learning his second O system in two years as a strong possibility isn't what a QB in his position will be looking for.

I disagree w/you about the lack of coaching and attention he got last year. I don't think there is any doubt that Hue is a better teacher of qbs than Haley.

Haley should prove to a very good asset to the Brown's offense, but I want Hue and the qb coach teaching and trying to develop our QBs rather than Haley.

I agree w/your points about the lack of stability here and especially w/Hue.

The only correction I will make is it would be Cousins' 3rd offense in 3 years, because we gotta count his offense in Washington.

You're right. I just meant when considering looking at what he may face when coming to the Browns and not at what happened before he got here. But you are certainly correct and to me that even adds to his decision.

I mean I honestly believe he has the mind to accomplish that. I believe he could make those adjustments. But why in the world would someone choose to put themselves into a situation like that when they obviously don't have to?

I want to be careful to say that I'm not 100% on the Cousins train. I have a different take on how to address the QB position this offseason every day. I'm just happy that we're in a really strong position this year to do something. Lots of talent available, and we have the ammo to do just about anything we want.


Now that we've gotten that out of the way, I don't think getting the top-tier FA QB to come here is so far-fetched. I'm not really 100% sure what Cousins' issue is with the 'skins, but there are only 32 of these positions in the NFL. We have one of the few open ones. Secondly, we have the cash. We have the cash to get Cousins, get a nice FA weapon for him, and still have plenty of cash to spare. Cash is a big deal, for several reasons, and we got it. Third, we have an offensive line. Our line quietly became very good last year. I say quietly, because they weren't getting any help from the QB play, or the playcalling. I felt, despite those two thing working against them as well as losing our future HoF LT, that the line looked really good, and they're only going to get better (as long as JT comes back another year).
Thirdly, we have young weapons on offense. Admittedly, this is probably the weakest of the arguments to come play in Cleveland, but Josh Gordon is still a beast (and...knock on wood... so far so good as far as you know what), Njoku will be good, Coleman is fine, Crowell is fine, and we will have a further influx of talent this offseason.

So, yeah, we're still Cleveland... but we can still make a compelling argument to come play here.

You raise some good points, but Pit's point about what shaky ground Hue is on is a huge one. Also, a player has to consider how truly unstable this franchise has been since it's return.

That instability would scare the crap out of me if had multiple teams interested in my services.

Couple things about guys not wanting to come here.

What's Cousins think about Jackson?

What's he think about Haley?

Never know about these things. Happens every year. Someone goes to a team noone dreamed he'd go to.

Hue Jackson has a lot of respect around the league. I don't think Haley is a real popular guy w/the players.

I have to disagree with you about the O. I agree we have a pretty good OL.

But Coleman hasn't proven anything as a WR. Even when the ball is delivered to him he hasn't really shown anything. Gordon has always shown he puts himself first over the team. We can hope and pray that part of his life is over but anyone counting on that I would consider to be a fool based on everything that has happened to this point. Njoku may turn out to be a good TE, but the jury is far from out on that. Some talent progresses and some simply doesn't. If it all projected well as expected there would be NFL superstars everywhere. Contracts would be cheap because talent would be abundant. That's just not how things are in the NFL.

We can all hope for the best but I can't really see anyone from the outside looking in thinking we have much talent on the O side of the ball unless our young talent develops well. And that takes faith that isn't based anything other than our hope as Browns fans.

You are right that there are only 32 starting QB positions in the NFL, but if you're on the outside looking in, this may be ranked #32 in where you would choose to go and we won't be the only one courting Cousins.

One thing I suggest people keep in mind. The FA signing period is well before the draft. No matter where Cousins signs, he either has to already see the talent on the roster where he signs or have a lot of faith that the people in charge will put the needed talent around him. So if we sign a guy like Jarvis Landry in the FA market, it could go a long way in convincing Cousins.

Circumstances are very fluid this time of year but Cousins will be looking at teams current situations and how much faith he has in the FO and coaching staffs of his potential destinations.

To add to your point about our receivers: Pryor was by our best receiver when he was here. He went to Washington w/Cousins and sucked butt.

That evidence alone speaks volumes to me. When he was here he was the best among nothing. When placed in a position where he was surrounded by some actual talent at the position he faded into the background.


The funny part about all of that is so many Browns fans want him back. lol

I think, to be fair, most fans wanted him back, but not at the money he thought he was worth.

It appeared to me they thought he would be a valuable addition and upgrade. A part of the answer at the WR position. Yet when we saw him have to compete with real NFL WR's in Washington he faded into the background.

I don't think adding yet another WR to the roster who couldn't seem to compete against real WR's makes a lot of sense. If we're going to sign FA WR's, lets sign WR's who can actually play the game.

j/c:


https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot/status/958407786723004421

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- If Browns GM John Dorsey plans to bring his old friend Alex Smith to Cleveland, he'll have to do an amazing sales pitch beforehand.

During an interview Tuesday on The Dan Patrick Show from the Super Bowl in Minneapolis, the 14th-year pro didn't sound eager to try to turn around the Browns if they trade for him.

"I haven't even thought about that," Smith said with a laugh. "They've got nowhere to go but up. 1-31 over the last 2 years just sounds amazing."

Asked by Patrick if ideally he'd like to go to a contender, he admitted he would.

"You would love to go a place that, if that's the case, if you're going somewhere, yeah, you want to go somewhere you have a chance to have success,'' he said. "I feel that (way). Wouldn't you?''

To which Patrick quipped, "I don't know, look what I'm surrounded by. I basically went to the Cleveland Browns of radio shows."

Of course, Smith -- who has a year left on his Chiefs deal at $17 million including bonuses -- wouldn't have control over where he gets traded, which he doesn't love.

"I wish I knew (where I'll be),'' he said. "Listen, I've got a year under contract there in Kansas City. I wish I was in control of this thing. I wish I was the one that got to be able to do this. That's just not the reality.''

nd if he were in control?

"You're not going to like this answer at all,'' I love where I'm at right now. I love where I'm at right now. I feel like we underachieved. I felt like offensively last year we did some awesome things. But who knows? I've been playing long enough, I've been through this before, the trade deal, so I'm not naive to it. This is a crazy business. A lot of crazy stuff can happen, so we'll see.''

Related: Browns QB buzz coming out of the Senior Bowl

NFL Network reported earlier this month that the Chiefs would be open to trading Smith, who took them to the playoffs four times over the past five years, and finished first in the NFL with a 104.7 rating this season thanks in large part to 26 touchdowns and five interceptions.

He could be expendable because the Chiefs traded up to draft Patrick Mahomes at No. 10 last year, and they might be ready to turn the team over to him. In his lone start this season, he completed 22 of 35 attempts for 284 yards, with no TDs and one interception.

The Cleveland trade speculation on Smith is natural because Dorsey traded for him when he first became GM of the Chiefs in 2013, and the former No. 1 overall pick in 2005 rewarded him with three playoff appearances in their four years together.
What's more coach Hue Jackson has made it clear the Browns will bring in a veteran quarterback who will likely start games for them until their rookie -- probably the No. 1 overall pick -- is ready.

"You need to have a quarterback that knows how to win in the National Football League, but circumstances sometimes dictate otherwise,'' Jackson said at the Senior Bowl last week. "You just don't know how things will unfold, but if we had the best of all of the worlds, we would want a guy in there who has won in the National Football League and knows what that looks like and what that position has to play like to have that."

While they might not want to make a huge long-term commitment to a Kirk Cousins, they could essentially rent Smith for a year at $17 million and then he's set to be a free agent after this season. They could also trade for him and try to sign him to a long-term deal.

But first, they'll have to sell him on the notion that there's nowhere to go but up, and that they'll surround him with what he needs to be successful.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2018/01/alex_smith_on_the_browns_1-31.html


Sounds like a guy who assumes he'll be traded; Sounds like a guy who prays every night it won't be to Cleveland.

We could also trade for him, explain to him that a long-term deal is an option. But we also have a transition tag and a franchise tag that we can use if necessary.

So it can be done the hard way or the easy way........ lol


Sometimes I think that's forgotten

Alex Smith's Salary for 2018 is $17,000,000 according to www.spotrac.com and KC is at $-14,168,283 (www.spotrac.com) Under the Cap Right Now ... Offer Them Our 2nd Pick in the 4th Rd. and They Will Trade Him ... JMHO

Actually if we're going to draft a QB at #1, having a one year rental with options makes a lot of sense.

Now here's something to ponder. Sashi felt a second round pick was worth 15 mil. in cap space when we singed BO. Now the odds of success with a second round pick is somewhere close to 50/50. Now most fans thought that was a great move.

With that in mind, how much is having a proven QB for a year or two worth?

See, I think giving a second or third round pick for Smith and drafting a QB at #1 is a much better scenario than a huge contract for Cousins. And certainly a much more realistic goal to achieve.

Wouldn't be against it. That's for sure.


I'm a big Alex Smith fan. Fan of Kirk Cousins too. Fan of Josh Rosen too.

Undecided on Mayfield and Darnold.

Interested in Teddy Bridgewater too. And McCaron as depth


Folks don't realize, Alex Smith turns like 34 this year. He coudl possibly play for us for another three years, easy. He's in good shape. Healthy. Decent arm. And he's had a lot of experience playing.

He knows how to prepare, and he knows NFL Defenses.

I certainly wouldn't be against Alex Smith at all. He's a great alternative to Cousins, better than McCaron and Bridgewater



Sometimes I think people get boxed into the 1 option thing too much. I'm open to a lot of options. I'm not open to standing pat and doing nothing though.

I actually wanted us to sign him when he went to KC. The reaction I got is that he was a game manager and that it would turn out like it did when we signed Jeff Garcia.

Oh, me too.

I saw they traded for him, and I was like wtf, why couldn't we trade for Alex Smith.


The guy was just in like the NFC Championship. He had just figured out the NFL

I was advocating trading for Smith, too.

The buzz on the board is that his arm wasn't strong enough to fit Norv Turner's offense.

That would be my preferred way to go. It would not preclude us taking a QB with the #1 pick, whereas with Cousins, you might think otherwise. Go with the vet who can give you 2-3 years...

Norv Turner's "Offense"


That guy is so overrated and outdated IMO


Carolina is in for a rude awakening.


EDIT: Wasn't Chud the coach? Wasn't his philosophy to taylor the Offense to your player's strengths.


Yeah, it's just a bad excuse for continued lack of finding a QB and being a cellar dwellar

Yeah, Chud was the coach.

I just remember a lot of posters dissing Alex Smith because they said his arm was not strong enough for Norv's offense.

Kinda like last year when many of those same posters said that Jimmy G was just a backup qb. They say a lot of interesting things.

The Browns could offer Alex Smith a chance to take them up, up and away -- Bud Shaw's Spinoffs

http://www.cleveland.com/budshaw/index.ssf/2018/01/the_browns_could_offer_alex_sm.html

Gotcha.


I remember seeing that and feeling the same way I did about the Jimmy G trade this year. Feeling a bunch of four letter words, wondering why we couldn't have gotten that deal........


I think we agree on some things when it comes to QBs. Accuracy and anticipation, progressions and being able to read a defense.

Alex Smith can do that. He showed he could do it on the 49ers as well.


To me, it's a no brainer. Norv Turner can taylor his offense to Smith if Norv's worth a darn.

Instead, we end up with Brandon Weeden. With an arm that didn't fit the NFL (inability to throw well with anticipation, inability to throw under pressure from the pass rush, and the need to get into a rhythm to get productive). Guy was a baseball pitcher playing football. No other way to say it. He might have been a good Yankee had he not had that shoulder injury

Agreed and I also think that Smith's arm isn't as weak as many people think. He had a lot of tremendous deep passes this year.

Also, yes accuracy and reading coverages quickly are at the top of my list on qb attributes. Throwing w/anticipaton, as you mentioned, is part of reading coverages quickly.

lol, that too.

But I was actually referring to throwing where the player's going to be where the ball will get to them in a place that they can effectively catch it and accelerate/cut upfield for more yards (AKA Tom Brady's Bread and Butter)


EDIT: And I agree, Smith showed he could throw an effective long-ball many times this year.


He's a funny type of QB. Very effective, manages to make the offense around him better, yet he had one season with like no TD passes to WRs or whatever, lol




Either way. He's a great option. The guy is able to command effective offenses.

I hope you are right, bro. All this talk about Mayfield and Allen is making me nervous.

Mayfield makes me feel better than Allen to be honest.


I think Mayfield could end up being a good QB.

But as long as there aren't any concussion questions, I'd have a hard time walking away from the Rosen pick if I'm Dorsey (assuming we don't sign Kirk Cousins or something)