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What I Saw: Day Two

By Lane Adkins
OBR Columnist
Posted Jul 28, 2007

See the practice through the eyes of the OBR's Lane Adkins, who sees more talent on the field in 2007 than in recent years...

Day Two of Training Camp is taking on a much different tone. After getting players on the field Friday, in a take-it-easy session where players started to get re-acclimated, the Saturday morning practice was much more eventful. Looking to get a little different perspective of the practice session, I undertook an adventure into sitting in the front row of the stands to observe the session.

Offensive coordinator Rob Chudzinski made his presence felt early in the practice session. Loudly, Chudzinski barked instruction specifically at Charlie Frye and Derek Anderson during passing drills, as the pair were consistently off-target, both making what could be described only as ill-advised throws.

Underthrown balls, overthrown tosses, and passes leading receivers too far... inconsistency was was the tone early in this practice session.

As the practice session progressed into scrimmage drills, Anderson continued to struggle, while Frye and Dorsey picked up the pace considerably, with Frye being the clear-cut winner during the morning practice session. Frye excelled in the scrimmage setting and started to get timing with the receivers. He threw crisp, tight passes to multiple receivers. This is only one practice session, but he looked very comfortable and confident running the offense.

The Browns’ offense showed little signs of life during the scrimmage drills. While multiple players were involved in the passing game during drills. Notable players were tight-end Kellen Winslow, running back Jerome Harrison, and wide receivers Tim Carter and Joe Jurevicius. A Carter grab of a Frye pass easily was the best offensive note of the day.

The team's wide receivers garnered a considerable amount of attention during the overcast morning practice, with receivers coach Wes Chandler and Chudzinski leading the vocal coaching barrage.

Chudzinski implored wide receivers Travis Wilson and Maurice Mann about the use and placement of their hands while coming off the line of scrimmage and through the reception of the ball. Obviously, the offensive coordinator is setting the tone of detail and intensity early in camp.

Chandler, a stickler for detail during the off-season training activities and mini-camp, kicked it up a notch in passing drills. On numerous occasions, Chandler was reassuring when a route was run correctly, and was vocal when a receiver did not perform as expected. One area of the receiving game where Chandler is paying close attention is precision route running. As things ramped up on Day 2, the coach referred to planting and cutting no less than four times.

Much can be said about the fanfare of being a high first round draft selection. With offensive lineman Joe Thomas, it is simply what you see is what you get. For the Browns, this is a very good thing.

When inserted at left tackle during the practice session, Thomas appeared comfortable. He gets into position very quickly and his hands are very quick for a player of his stature. What makes Thomas such a great prospect is his athleticism, desire, and understanding of the game. Not all players have this special mental make-up.

As Thomas moved in at left tackle, Kevin Shaffer (who also got reps there) moved to the right tackle position. Surprisingly, at first glance, the offensive line did not appear to suffer from any disarray when the change was made. If there is a noticeable difference with the offense in the early sessions, it is within the scope of coaching and athleticism. Throughout the line, the players are much more athletic as a unit and are expected to provide the ability to pull much more often than in seasons past.

It is early in training camp, but to this eye, the roster consists of improved talent that seems to have a strong desire to end the losing ways of this organization.

Later,

LA


http://browns.scout.com/2/662536.html

Saturday AM Practice: One for Frye

By Barry McBride
OBR Publisher
Posted Jul 28, 2007

If Derek Anderson and Charlie Frye are competing for the job at starting quarterback, the former needs to look better than he did today. Today's practice belonged to Frye, who looked sharper than his challenger.

The mainstream media and the "national" NFL pundits have a lot of words they need to pour out over the coming weeks, and there's no doubt what subject will occupy the vast majority of those words: quarterbacks.

The Browns have themselves a three-headed quarterback controversy, even if one of the heads is still a limo ride and contract signing away from participating.

The problem with focusing on a quarterback compeition with the Browns at this point, and it's not something I like writing, is this: neither of the quarterbacks currently competing is very good.

While the team hoped for more from QB Charlie Frye, the off-season hopes of many Browns fans were focused on Frye's 2006 backup quarterback, Derek Anderson. Anderson has a the right size for an NFL quarterback, and he has a big arm, something lacking behind center for orange and brown since their return.

All of this, plus Anderson's solid performance in replacement of Frye for a couple of games in 2006 obviously excites both the team and fans. There has been hope expressed in the OBR forums, blogs, and among fans in general that Anderson would take his game up another notch this off-season.

Based on the morning practice on July 28, 2007, however, Anderson looks far from ready to take over as the team's start quarterback.

This morning's practice belonged to Charlie Frye, who combined with WR Tim Carter to complete a long pass on the play of the day. Frye looked far sharper than Anderson, whose first pass of the day was picked off by Brodney Pool.

While possibly a miscommunication, the pick set the tone for Anderson, who later bounced a pass off the pads of a reciever and tossed another out of bounds, unable to find an open receiver.

As Browns fans saw last year, Anderson can look very good when he's "on". When he's off, however, you get a game like the team's loss to the weak Tampa Bay squad, where four passes were intercepted.

A team needs consistency from the quarterback position, and today's practice, like the Buccaneers game, creates concern about whether Anderson can turn that element of his game around.

SHAFFER ON THE RIGHT: For the first time today, we saw Joe Thomas take some reps at left tackle while 2006 starting LT Kevin Shaffer worked on the right side of the line.

WRIGHT ON THE FIELD: Browns cornerback Eric Wright was at practice today, playing most frequently with the second unit. Kenny Wright got some time with the first team opposite Leigh Bodden.

ATTENTION!: Special Teams coach Ted Daisher was less than thrilled with the focus of his charges during kickoff return drills during the morning's practice. Several times the Browns fans present reacted with whoops and hollers when Daisher yelled at players to pay attention.

STING LIKE A BEE: Fullback Charles Ali has gotten some reaction on the sidelines from his hard hits during practice. Ali is competing with J.R. Niklos for a position to back up starting fullback Lawrence Vickers.

http://browns.scout.com/2/662447.html

Frye looked horrid in the night practice

Yeah, didn't see the night practice, anyone got any info on it?

And I like what I see from that guy Ali, he shows a lot of intensity every single time. Hopefully he'll have a place on the team backing up Vickers, and maybe Barclay will make the team, I would love to see it. It just looks like that kid is always working so hard, but never gets any credit yet.

But then again was Harrison just a total fluke last year or???

If he was, than here's to Barclay being the backup to Lewis or the backup to Wright.

I would rather have at RB:

1) Lewis
2) Harrison
3) Barclay

If we need another power back.. there is Vickers who can turn to RB...

Keeping wright on this team just isn't what I would do.. but I'm just a fan.. lol..
Having Harrison and Barclay behind this offensive line.. two guys you really can't see.. two guys that can easily make a cut to the other side w/ SPEED!! I would use them a lot..

I just want Barclay to get some playing time in Pre/season !

Me too...

I also would like to see Matua get a few reps behind one of the Guards.. either Steinbach or whoever is at RG..

Who is lining up at RG. with the first team ?? If Shaffer is in at RT. is Tucker moved over to RG. or off the field ??

Im not too sure.. I think McKinney though..

I'm fling back across ( home ) the border the middle of August for a week or so . Can't wait to get out to camp and watch the " OL " !

well two weeks until the first preseason game.. the countdown starts today...

A lot of Qb threads to post this question in but it looks like this was as good as any.

Seems as if everyone has the Qb competition down to Frye and Anderson with both looking pretty poorly overall to this point. Can Dorsey possibly win the job? All that is based on what I have heard of Dorsey in the past. I haven't seen much of him and no one seems to like to report much about how he has been doing in camp and at the OTA's.

What does he have going for him? Reportedly the smartest of all our Qb's. Knows Chud well from the U. Does this give him an edge learning the offense? The offense is supposedly based on timing and accuracy. Dorsey is probably the most accurate Qb on the team and reportedly does well with timing routes.

What does he have going against him? Reportedly the weakest arm of all the Qb's. Could be a problem in that I hear the new O wants to be more of a verticle passing offense. Can his arm be that much weaker than Charlie's. The other thing that I see really going against him is the end of last season. With Anderson out with a separated shoulder and Frye barely able to throw the ball with a "broken" or "sprained" wrist, the Browns decided to start Frye in the last game of the year rather than turn the offense over to Dorsey.

So does Dorsey have even a sliver of a chance to win the starting job? And if not, why?

I've never thought Dorsey was much of an athletic QB... I think he benefited from having some serious talent around him at the U. He was given a chance to start (I believe) in San Fran and didn't do much with it.

I'm sure going into camp RAC was going to give everyone a look... but I just don't think Dorsey has the skills that Frye and Anderson do. He's a smart guy and I can see him being more of a helper with the system, but I don't see a chance of him being a starter.

I don't think many Qb's could have done much in SF those years. Those 49er teams were horrid. And if his skill set is that much less than Frye and Anderson that he has no shot at competing with them then I am surprised he is even able to stand up without falling over and hurting himself.

Well I don't think any of the three are much to look at... but I think Dorsey is in the appropriate spot at the bottom of the ladder.

Maybe so. As a prefaced my comments I haven't seen much of Dorsey. To further clarify, I haven't seen any of Dorsey in a Browns uni. I was just wondering about how Dorsey was doing because no one ever seems to report on him and I was looking for info on why it is presumed he will make the final roster (as a #3 Qb) yet not have a shot at starting.

Well unless something changes during camp, Frye is clearly going to start in the preseason, and lots can change during that time. Quite the opposite of what the media was saying, Frye was the leader in the QB competition coming into camp according to Crennel, and he looks like he won't lose that job anytime soon. I am definitely for Frye over Anderson, both suck, but Frye sucks less. In Anderson's best game last year Frye was having just as good of a game until he got hurt, so it's not like Anderson was every any better. We're stuck with Frye until either A)the team loses so many games that we put in Quinn, or B)Frye shows to be so ineffective that we put in Anderson and therefore eventually put in Quinn. Those two things might be hand in hand, but I am sure Frye is the guy for now, even though he isn't great. But somebody has to stopgap for Quinn.

I'm going to predict that whoever is the starting QB, that Dorsey ends up the #3 QB. He's knowledgeable in this offense, and his intangibles are there as what your 3rd QB needs to be. I'm well aware most of you guys are going to flame me here, but Dorsey is another Todd Collins. He's a guy who sticks around the league as a #3 because he absorbs offenses well, and can help mentor young guys. I think whoever loses between DA and Frye gets cut or traded, Dorsey is the #2 or #3 all year (depending on when Quinn signs).

He's a guy who sticks around the league as a #3 because he absorbs offenses well, and can help mentor young guys.

Ya know I've seen this several times before and I still don't get it. He may be able to absorb offenses, I cannot dispute that although I doubt he's quite as good as some on here claim. But the guy is only 26. He's only played in, what? 12 games? How in the hell can he be a mentor to anyone? That's the part I don't buy.

As far as who goes and who stays I just cannot see dumping a guy that you previously thought may be good enough to be your starting QB. Be it Frye or Anderson. Obviously, if you think the "loser" of the QB competition will be a problem in the locker room he would have to go. But I don't see Frye or Anderson being that problem.

And as far as trade value....well frankly, I don't see Anderson as having any. And honestly, if they started shopping Charlie if he loses his bid to be the starter I don't see anyone offering much either. Maybe a 4th round pick. So to me that means both guys stay and Dorsey goes. But, hey, that's just me.....

What I really think is good is that Dorsey and Winslow work well together, and again he knows the Chudzinski offense since they ran it at Miami. Having Dorsey, who thrived in that offense college, will be clutch for helping the other two understand the offense.

I just think too, that people don't always get the backup QB role. It's meant to be for guys like Dorsey, or young developmental guys. Preferably, you should have

Your starter (#1)
Your veteran backup who understands the offense (#2 or #3)
Your younger developmental guy who is trade bait/eventual #2

If the Browns go with Anderson/Frye as the starter, Dorsey as the 2, and then Quinn as the three, it will do more for the product on the field that some combination of Frye, Anderson, and Quinn, all three of whom are new to the offense and struggled in it at first.

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He's only played in, what? 12 games? How in the hell can he be a mentor to anyone? That's the part I don't buy.

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This is the first season of a very complex offensive scheme. If both Frye and Anderson are considered possible starters then the issue, at this time, is not so much how to play, (for that you would prefer a proven veteran #2), but more in helping to learn the offense.

I think the point with Dorsey is that, although, unlike the proven veteran backup, Dorsey cannot tell the QB's how to play, but he can help them learn the offense.

Around the league, without looking it up, I believe there are very few #2's who are starter quality. On a lot of teams there is a huge dropoff from #1 to #2. So keeping the loser between Frye and Anderson as the #2 and Quinn as the #3, you end up having 3 QB's who are struggling to learn and understand the offense.

You drop the loser of the compitition and keep the brain who understands the offense inside/out and you have at least one QB on the team the others can go to for help.

Dorsey can be the "huge dropoff" #2. Although he lacks the physical abilities of Frye or Anderson, he has 2/3's the experience of Frye and 400% more than Anderson. You'd hate to see him actually have to play, but with good protection and a running game he'd fill in adequately I feel.

If it's true that you need a franchise QB to ultimately be a big winner, and it likely is, once your franchise QB goes down you no longer have one anyway. In the specific situation the Browns find themselves in it may be better to use Dorsey as the backup since he is the most knowledgeable of the offense and wait for Quinn to move up to that spot and eventually into the starting role.

Then what you have is the "franchise" starter, the veteran backup, (Frey/Anderson) and the "brain" back at #3 where he belongs.

I'm not saying this is exactly what I would do because there are specifics of each of the 4 quarterbacks of which I know nothing. But it makes sense in a long-term view.

when are any cuts made?

Problem is.... All three QBs... Frye, Anderson and Dorsey are learning the offense for the first time. Dorsey brings no more knowledge of Chud's offense, or the reads, to the table than Frye or Anderson. Everybody is on the same level... learning the new offense.

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when are any cuts made?

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Some time near the very end of August they reduce the roster and very shortly after that, something like the first week of September, they have to get down to the 53 man roster.

IIRC

Underthrown balls
Sounds like CF...


overthrown tosses, and passes leading receivers too far
Sounds like DA...

As Thomas moved in at left tackle, Kevin Shaffer (who also got reps there) moved to the right tackle position. Surprisingly, at first glance, the offensive line did not appear to suffer from any disarray when the change was made.
I'm not surprised..and this move happened very fast...lets hope it continues to work..

I doubt if he flops... he is a lot more talented then most on here think..

I actually think we have all the pieces on our O-line now..

the depth is amazing..

If Dorsey was such a great teacher then why did Alex Smith have 1 TD and 11 INT"s with Dorsey backing him up in SF?

And according to all you internet GM's Frye and Anderson stunk last year with Ken Dorsey backing them up.

And Brady Quinn was the #3 in minicamp behind Frye and Anderson with Ken Dorsey giving him advice.


Looks like Ken Dorsey's advice is really paying off.

If Dorsey was such a great teacher then why did Alex Smith have 1 TD and 11 INT"s with Dorsey backing him up in SF?

Because Smith is the who actually takes the snap and throws the ball..oh wait..U never figured that out..

Seems Smith performed a bit better than Frye..lol..

Hey guys, go right on ahead. I keep making the point that no one seems to quite get that...hold on...it's coming...just wait...

DORSEY UNDERSTANDS CHUD'S OFFENSE. HE PLAYED IN IT FOR FOUR YEARS AT MIAMI.

Wait? What's that you say?

DORSEY UNDERSTANDS THE OFFENSE BETTER FRYE, ANDERSON, OR QUINN.

If you guys want to respond to parts of posts, go ahead. I've made my case, and I stand by it. The fact is that Dorsey is here for another reason too.

HE HELPS KEEP WINSLOW IN CHECK TOO.

Don't ever sleep on that. The two of them have a strong bond, and Dorsey is the yin to Winslow's yang.

I swear arguing with some of you guys is like explaining calcus to my nephews. If you think I'm wrong, I'm not offended by that, but most of you don't seem to get my point. Dorsey's familiarity in the offense, even if it's just for the early stages of camp, is important. The Browns want to keep him around. And what's more obvious, is when I point out these system backup QB's, you guys respond with

"D00d but he only be a 68 on Madden! Yo we should just trade fo T-ROY Smith, and we be set!"

And I could very well end up wrong, but hey, I'd rather go out there and put my neck out on the line.

I'm with you C in that I believe Dorsey has a legite shot at the "other" roster spot ... and it has everything to with his BRAIN .... well that and the fact i think Anderson is a COMPLETE STIFF ....

I think Frye wins by DEFAULT (even though menZa will show stats making Frye look like a first ballot HOFer) and that Dorsey has a decent shot to be the #3 ...

most folks on here dont understand alot of the BASICS about an NFL football team .. so asking them to grasp the qualities and skill sets U want in your "2nd or 3rd" QB is well beyond their grasp .... if your nephews are over 8 .. u may have a better shot at teaching them calculus ..

my obseravtion/question is this ..

U know Chud will have ASPECTS of the O he ran at the U ... I'm just wondering what % it will actually be around ... will it be 25% or 75% .. hes grown alot and been introduced to some new philosophies since his days at the U ... hopefully he's grown quite a bit since then .... and NO this wont hurt Dorsey as his brain is his ONLY ASSET IMO (this is nt directed at you C .. its for the menZas of the board out there that will throw their 2 cents in) ...

as this team develops/evolves over the next 3 or 4 years ... it will be fun to see just how different/same the O is from his days at the U ..

U aren't talking to me are you?
Cuze I'm not debating U at all..
BTW it's calculus ..not calcus
What the heck is calcus?

I actually agree with ya C, but I think it is dependant on one thing..... Quinn and our plans for him.


If Quinn seems like he is getting it and makes good progress toward being able to be the #2 without being overwhelmed, then keeping Dorsey is the perfect solution.

If Quinn is struggling to get acclimated and up to speed, then I could see us going the route of burying Quinn as the #3 and keeping both Frye & Anderson as a means of "protecting" Quinn until he's actually ready.

Aside from that, having that teammate that they can hagn around with outside of the lockerroom and talk shop with that really understands things is invaluable.

An analogy I have is a Tech Support job I had about a decade ago.... we all used to joke that we got more done on smoke breaks than we did at any other time , and it was because it was an informal place for experienced and inexperienced people to talk shop without the pressures of work around you. While just having a smoke, you could say "Hey <name>, what would cause this sort of thing to happen?" ... and they'd start to answer, and others would overhear and maybe chime in and before ya knew it, it was really an informal learning session going on. So, to discount the value of having someone that can help teach off the field is silly, especially when there are things like the CBA limiting the amount of time that players can be in formal teaching & practicing situations.

Dorsey is the ying to Winslow's yang??? are u sure??? He keeps Winslow in check?

yea i know they have a history together.. and I know for a fact that in college you form long term friends ... but this is a business... and I think Winslow understands that.. If Dorsey was cut, Winslow will understand why he was cut. Will it change their friendship? no!! will he be upset with the Browns? no!!