It stupid to think Joe isn't a HOF player. He is a first ballot HOF player.
The question is what helmet is he going to wear on his plaque?
That's a joke....
See, there is a group of goofballs who somehow think great players only play on great teams and win championships.
Average players, especially QB's can make the HOF based on winning and championships, but great players get in no matter the record.
I tend to agree with you. If we were talking about a normal team with some playoff games, I would say sure.
But a HOFER without one playoff game... that's hard IMHO.
Cribbs should be a Hofer also,but I think he will never be in Canton.
And the truth is that JT superior play has virtually no impact on the Browns results. I know he is a sacred cow here, but that's the truth.
Somehow I think a Hofer is a player that makes a difference, which I don't think JT does.
The HOf is an individual award while the superbowl is pretty much dependent on the team. According to your reasoning you should not have any offensive lineman in the hall, and maube only "skill" players like qb, rb, and wr.
I don't think a loser has any place in the Hall of Fame...
JT is a great player,nobody is taking that away from him, but he never won anything..
This is a sport, titles and wins should count for something.
Its just my opinion
So the best player of his generation, at his position ..... and a premium position at that .... should be kept out because despite his being the best player at his position, the rest of the team, around him, stinks????
No offense, but that's just stupid. The Hall of Fame is for the best players ..... not necessarily members of the best teams.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I don't think a loser has any place in the Hall of Fame...
JT is a great player,nobody is taking that away from him, but he never won anything..
This is a sport, titles and wins should count for something.
Its just my opinion
So the best player of his generation, at his position ..... and a premium position at that .... should be kept out because despite his being the best player at his position, the rest of the team, around him, stinks????
No offense, but that's just stupid. The Hall of Fame is for the best players ..... not necessarily members of the best teams.
He could have asked to be traded... instead of going fishing he could actually care about football and try to win something.
Don't blame the lack of JT success on the Browns...
I can understand if they vote JT in,but I can also understand if they don't... I know I wouldn't..
Well, that is one metric, not the only one. I make him as HOF for the number of Pro Bowls and the incredible number of snaps. His level of play has been exemplary. He has done about all that could be expected at a very high level in spite of the folks around him.
Worthy. He is famous for those who know. Very worthy. You elect individuals, not teams.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
Joe Thomas brings to mind another player in another sport who was great for years but never won anything who I believe was a first ballot HOF; Ernie Banks.
I tend to agree with you. If we were talking about a normal team with some playoff games, I would say sure.
But a HOFER without one playoff game... that's hard IMHO.
I think that is exactly why he IS a first ballot guy. Call it the sympathy vote but people around the league and familiar with the league love the guy... they love that he showed up every snap year after year, they love that he never complained about being on sucky teams, they love that he never once tried to leave... those things will work in his favor, not against him.
You have lost the concept of how football even works. lol
Each player is responsible for their job. Each player plays to a certain level at their position. Joe has been the best at his position bar none.
You act as though he is responsible for the other 21 starters, their back ups and the special teams play. He's not.
I'm sure you grasp the concept and at this point you're being nothing but a troll on the subject.
He's responsible for his career... I give him a pass for the first contract, but after that someone who wants to be a Hofer has to seek excellence...
I also have problems with the concept, because either JT is the greatest LT that ever played and the LT position is irrelevant, or the position is relevant but JT made no impact.
Fact is that JT's career has been irrelevant so far... No impact on the passing game and no impact on the running game..
Maybe we should judge lineman for the units and not the players, but even then, its not like we didn't have good lineman here....
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
I tend to agree with you. If we were talking about a normal team with some playoff games, I would say sure.
But a HOFER without one playoff game... that's hard IMHO.
I think that is exactly why he IS a first ballot guy. Call it the sympathy vote but people around the league and familiar with the league love the guy... they love that he showed up every snap year after year, they love that he never complained about being on sucky teams, they love that he never once tried to leave... those things will work in his favor, not against him.
I don't think you go to Canton by popular vote...
You also don't get there by personal conduct or integrity..
For me it has to be a combination of skill and success, determination and ambition.
Joe is the only OL to be named to the Pro Bowl in each of his 10 seasons. Only 4 others have done this, ever, and they are all in the Hall of Fame.
He has had, I believe, 8 or 9 consecutive All Pros, as well.
Yeah, he's "iffy".
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
The Hall of Fame is an individual accomplishment, not a team accomplishment. When just examining Joe Thomas' career compared to his peers and players already in the Hall of Fame, he is a lock.
The Hall of Fame is an individual accomplishment, not a team accomplishment. When just examining Joe Thomas' career compared to his peers and players already in the Hall of Fame, he is a lock.
But how can you judge the true value of a player if he never played in great games?
We are talking greatness here...
How can you see if a player is the best, or great, if he was never challenged?
IMHO, you can't..that's a disrespect to the game.
Player greatness has to impact the team, if not then its irrelevant.
The Hall of Fame is an individual accomplishment, not a team accomplishment. When just examining Joe Thomas' career compared to his peers and players already in the Hall of Fame, he is a lock.
But how can you judge the true value of a player if he never played in great games?
We are talking greatness here...
How can you see if a player is the best, or great, if he was never challenged?
IMHO, you can't..that's a disrespect to the game.
Player greatness has to impact the team, if not then its irrelevant.
On craptastic teams Joe made the pro bowl 10 straight years, never missing a snap until an injury in his 11th season.
You want to disrespect the game, don't make Joe a first ballot HOF'er
You also don't get there by personal conduct or integrity..
For me it has to be a combination of skill and success, determination and ambition.
I think you are all wet.
Skill: excellent LT performance - paid to keep blind side safe.
Success: NOT defined by championships but by consistent execution against ALL skilled opponents over a long period.
Determination: how about 10000+ consecutive plays as well as playing for One team despite their record.
Ambition (noun) definition - 'a strong desire to do or to achieve something, typically requiring determination and hard work': I don't know how you define this but your comment about fishing is shallow. I take it you mean his not seeking the blinging limelight at that time showed a lack of it. But, that takes nothing away from his long playing performance.
Let me try putting it this way, if we had 21 other players that were as good as Joe is at his position then where would the browns be? Joe can only do what he can do. He should be commended for staying with a losing franchise not have it held against him.
Dan Fouts, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Eric Dickerson, Warren Moon, Earl Campbell, Merlin Olsen, Lee Roy Selmon, Deacon Jones, Gayle Sayers, and Barry Sanders are just a few Hall of Famers to have never won a Super Bowl/NFL Championship.
Based on the lack of championship criteria, they don't deserve their gold jackets, I guess.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do. -Derek Jeter
Dan Fouts, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Eric Dickerson, Warren Moon, Earl Campbell, Merlin Olsen, Lee Roy Selmon, Deacon Jones, Gayle Sayers, and Barry Sanders are just a few Hall of Famers to have never won a Super Bowl/NFL Championship.
Based on the lack of championship criteria, they don't deserve their gold jackets, I guess.
Just to name a few more: Ozzie Newsome, Dick Butkus, OJ Simpson, Anthony Munoz, Tony Gonzalez, Chris Carter.
There may be people who have more talent than you, but there's no excuse for anyone to work harder than you do. -Derek Jeter
Dan Fouts, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Eric Dickerson, Warren Moon, Earl Campbell, Merlin Olsen, Lee Roy Selmon, Deacon Jones, Gayle Sayers, and Barry Sanders are just a few Hall of Famers to have never won a Super Bowl/NFL Championship.
Based on the lack of championship criteria, they don't deserve their gold jackets, I guess.
Just to name a few more: Ozzie Newsome, Dick Butkus, OJ Simpson, Anthony Munoz, Tony Gonzalez, Chris Carter.
I feel like this thread should have Red Buttons doing his "never got a dinner" routine.
Let me try putting it this way, if we had 21 other players that were as good as Joe is at his position then where would the browns be? Joe can only do what he can do. He should be commended for staying with a losing franchise not have it held against him.
If we had 21 other players like Thomas everyone would be complaining about having to buy extra post-season tickets every year. And the high cost of Super Bowl memorabilia. Except for that one guy who still wants the coach fired.
"Let people think this is a dumpster fire," - Mike Pettine
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