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Originally Posted By: edromeo


UCLA vs USC

51 plays

Under pressure plays:
1:01
1:46
2:14
3:03
3:49
4:09
4:56
6:36
6:53
7:20
8:54
10:05
10:23

Muddy pocket:
3:49
4:09
5:21
7:20

Evasion plays: -

Plus displays of arm talent:
1:01
2:14
2:42
3:03
3:10
3:34
4:29
5:21
5:38
6:53
11:03
11:19

Improvisation: -

Plus progression/cov read:
Over 15 plays where he goes beyond the 1st read. Usually half field but some full: 6:53
8:16
9:20



Movement throw: -

Run instincts: -

Held ball/missed receiver:
4:50
8:00
9:38
10:23
11:34


Off backfoot: 6:39, 6:53

Off target:
2:42
4:50
5:21
5:48
6:36
8:00
8:54
9:20
9:38
10:00
11:34
12:15
12:39


Negative Plays:
7:20
8:00
9:38
10:23
11:34


Tipped: 1:33
5:56
11:29

Play-action: 19 plays

Under center: 7 plays
39s
2:42
3:03
3:34
8:40
10:05
12:15

Classic pocket passer. Throws with consistent fundamentals.
Drop back, balance, ball carriage and delivery are all sound and consistent. Throws a very nice ball and is a confident thrower. Throws with good accuracy and ball placement. Not a power thrower with elite arm strength but can easily make all the throws.

Plays in a 'NFL' style offense with identifiable route concepts and progressions. Goes through progressions to include some full field progression. Can get to his 2nd, 3rd options and backside progression or checkdowns with poise. Had ~7 plays from under center, which is probably going to be the most from any of the top prospects. A polished rhythm drop back passer.

Limited in terms of mobility. Did not avoid sacks or escape from the pocket to extend plays. Did not throw on the move. Didn't bring much to the table this game in terms of playmaking or improvisation.

Made some really good, NFL throws. His bad plays came in bunches mainly starting in the 3rd Q after the pressure/hits/sacks began. Couldn't get the offense going though. Had a bad RZ turnover and 2 other dropped INTs.

A question that crept into my mind from watching his tape and charting this game: why he wasn't more efficient and productive with his passing skillset?


Last edited by edromeo; 01/21/18 12:42 PM.
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Hey edromeo can you do a game like that of Mike White at some point, I’d like a second opinion on him and to see if what I’m seeing is truly what I’m seeing? If you don’t have time, that’s fine, if you do thanks much.

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Did you get those accuracy charts from a site? Did that guy do one for Mike White?

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edromeo Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: dean_fairchild
Hey edromeo can you do a game like that of Mike White at some point, I’d like a second opinion on him and to see if what I’m seeing is truly what I’m seeing? If you don’t have time, that’s fine, if you do thanks much.
I probably won't have time to chart White's games but I will watch his tape at some point. Still working through the current "top" guys.

Any thoughts on the Rosen game chart?

Oh and the accuracy charts: https://twitter.com/NFLFilmStudy/media?lang=en

Ian Wharton on twitter.

I don't think he was one of Mike White.

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I come away with similar takes to what you have.

The kid is just very fundamentally sound and has been since he stepped foot on thecUCLA campus. He looks great throwing the ball and will look great throwing at the combine(if he does indeed throw) and at his pro day.

But I’m completely with you, while I like him, every game I watch I come out of it wanting more. Maybe it’s nit picking, IDK. Just seems like I’m thinking “well he had a decent game but....”. To me he just doesn’t make me think, great. Solid, especially with his fundamentals, but maybe not great. If I had to compare him to the kind of player he might be, I’d have to say Eli Manning, who has won two superbowls but really isn’t an overly spectacular player. Don’t get me wrong I’d take a player with Eli’s success in a heartbeat.

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Lousiville vs FSU

~32 plays (+ designed runs not charted because well he’s obviously a dynamic runner)

Under pressure plays:
:30
2:12
2:25
4:28
4:42
5:27
5:54
6:19
6:35
7:15
12:49

Muddy pocket:
:30
2:12
2:25
4:28
5:27


Evasion plays:
:40
1:38
2:37
3:11
6:44
9:13
13:16


Plus displays of arm talent:
3:11
4:42
8:00
12:16
12:49
13:04
13:16
13:39
14:52


Improvisation:
5:27
6:44
9:13
13:16

Plus progression/cov read:
5:27
7:03
7:45
13:16
14:52

Movement throw:
4:42
13:16

Run instincts: well duh

Held ball/missed receiver:
5:54
10:15

Off backfoot:
2:12
2:25

Off target:
2:25
5:27
6:35
7:45
10:15

Negative Plays:
5:54
10:15
2:12
2:25

Tipped:
4:28

Play-action:
4:42

Under center:
None

Above average arm strength. Has plenty of arm strength to make all the throws. Quick, clean throwing motion not a full 'over the top' throwing motion can sometimes slip to 3/4 side-arm type motion. Can 'flick' the ball with velocity. Good accuracy, especially on the deep ball. Receivers dropped some balls on him.

Louisville passing game includes identifiable NFL concepts from identifiable NFL formations. It is not a true 'spread' offense like OU, OkSt etc. You can see him usually executing half field reads; he does get through some full field progressions. Did a good job of staying in the pocket didn't bail from the pocket early in this game. Throws from a very narrow base but maintains good balance on his throws. Occasionally executes basic pass drops and throw on time e.g. 3-step from shotgun.

Made some good NFL throws. Didn't make many bad decisions. His negative plays came from missed throws with only a couple bad decisions.

Lamar is the offense for his team.

Creative player. Can an make plays. Can evade pressure. Can throw on the move. Is a dynamic runner.

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Hey Ed, I like this new format better. Thanks for all the hard work


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Originally Posted By: dean_fairchild
I come away with similar takes to what you have.

The kid is just very fundamentally sound and has been since he stepped foot on thecUCLA campus. He looks great throwing the ball and will look great throwing at the combine(if he does indeed throw) and at his pro day.

But I’m completely with you, while I like him, every game I watch I come out of it wanting more. Maybe it’s nit picking, IDK. Just seems like I’m thinking “well he had a decent game but....”. To me he just doesn’t make me think, great. Solid, especially with his fundamentals, but maybe not great. If I had to compare him to the kind of player he might be, I’d have to say Eli Manning, who has won two superbowls but really isn’t an overly spectacular player. Don’t get me wrong I’d take a player with Eli’s success in a heartbeat.

Rosen throws a nice ball, with consistent mechanics. His pro-day is gonna be money.

I'm a QB at heart and youth football and basketball coach. QBs are my soft spot. So I tend to like most of the QB prospects. When it comes to ranking them there is some much criteria to sort out. In regards to Rosen I would like to see more efficiency from a QB with his skillset to be mentioned in the same breath with Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson (barring height) as prospects.

I like your Eli Manning comp for Rosen in terms of passing ability. But Eli had the pedigree, body and took on raising a struggling football program and clean injury history.

I have to take a closer look at some of games but right now I think the difference in their efficiency stems from a mix of athleticism compared to those 2 and questionable decision making at times. BUT maybe he would have attained that efficiency IF he didn't miss half his sophomore season.

--------------------------------------------------------------

To the few interested:

I was thinking about posting some gifs from the 2 QBs I have currently charted. I was thinking of posting some plays from each category...eg: missed throws, improve, 'plus' throws, bad decisions etc.

Thoughts?

Last edited by edromeo; 01/29/18 01:24 PM.
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Also which QB next? Darnold, Allen....? Which game?

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Originally Posted By: edromeo
Also which QB next? Darnold, Allen....? Which game?



Darnold. There appears to be a large consensus in the NFL world that he will be our pick at #1.

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Originally Posted By: devicedawg
Originally Posted By: edromeo
Also which QB next? Darnold, Allen....? Which game?



Darnold. There appears to be a large consensus in the NFL world that he will be our pick at #1.


I would be ok with Darnold ...


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Those two TD's ,( touch pass's ) from Allen should cause some discussion !

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It's going to be darnold or mason I think. I think it's most likely mason because they are keeping quiet about him while talking heavily about all the other candidates. It's a perfect trade down scenario where they talk up the trade bait while they sneak in for the pick they wanted all along after picking up some draft picks.


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Sam Darnold vs Western Michigan coming up

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Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
It's going to be darnold or mason I think. I think it's most likely mason because they are keeping quiet about him while talking heavily about all the other candidates. It's a perfect trade down scenario where they talk up the trade bait while they sneak in for the pick they wanted all along after picking up some draft picks.


C'mon Thorns.

I know you love Rudolph, but man we'd be the mockery of the league AGAIN if we took Rudolph at #1.

There's 3 things I'm pretty sure are LOCKS at #1.

We ain't taking Allen and his Consistent INNaccuracy.
We ain't taking Mayfield and his Lack of Size.
We ain't taking Rudolph period.

4th. And this is a HUGE one.

Josh Rosen. I have a REAL hard time getting past these Concussion problems he's had. I don't give a rats ass about his comments or perceived Attitude. It's the Concussion problems.

TWICE he had them and missed time. And that's only the 2 that were actually Reported. Were there more?

That SCARES me away.

It's DARNOLD and don't look back.

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Can the regular draft QB prospect discussion/argument stay in the other threads and keep this thread about film breakdowns?

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Actually at the moment, I think Mayfield is the favorite to be picked #1. That may change when we talk with Rosen, Darnold, and maybe Rudolph or Jackson. But I would agree Allen is off the list at 1.

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Originally Posted By: edromeo
Sam Darnold vs Western Michigan coming up


While we're all watching Darnold, keep an eye on how well Ronnie Jones II picks up pass rusher.

Potential 2nd Rounder.

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mason is a possibility for the 2nd round.

Ed keep the film coming...hard for me watching on phone.
Also I hope dawgs know what to look for. Individual plays are irrelevant you have to see repitition of good or bad.arm strength, look for release is it effortless or does he strain to get mustard on the ball. Footwork does it look natural how does the shoulder line up as QB is mobile...nurse here have to stop.


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I seriously doubt Mason last to the second round. At the very least he won't make it beyond the Steelers. Because he is a younger and smarter Big Ben. Definitely better moral character.


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I'll say it one more time .. This a very good and deep QB class .. There will one big time rush to grab one in the first and second rounds .. Some of yous folks are going to be surprised !

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Agreed. There could be as many as 7 QB's taken in the 1st round. I think that would break the record of 6 taken in 1983 if I remember correctly.

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Not sure about the number , but a lot of talent will move down in rounds two / three for sure . We are in the Cat Bird seat with our picks in rounds 1 through 3

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Your right about that WD. Someone might like one of the 2nd tier QB's enough to move up in Round 2 to take him. Besides the top 5 QB's there are guys like Rudolph, White and the kid from Richmond moving up the charts. It's a deep and talented QB class. Between now and the draft someone else may open some eyes. It will be interesting to see.

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Your a QB at heart? That’s ironic, I’m a DB at heart. Easiest position for me to evaluate also. Especially if I have good tape or see them play live, gottasee thier hands and eyes. QB the most difficult.

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Originally Posted By: dean_fairchild
Your a QB at heart? That’s ironic, I’m a DB at heart. Easiest position for me to evaluate also. Especially if I have good tape or see them play live, gottasee thier hands and eyes. QB the most difficult.
I like evaluating DBs too. I did some DB breakdowns last year. Look forward to talking DBs with you down the road. 2 under the radar guys I like are Reaves and Duke Dawson.

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Rosen:



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Mayfield:



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Jackson:



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Rosen




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Mayfield



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Jackson



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This is why I despise the cutups and prefer watching the "every throw" videos. Picking and choosing a few plays to show can be very deceiving.

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Have only looked at Josh Jackson, Carlton Davis, Tarvarius McFadden, Kevin Tolliver, Kameron Kelly, Brandon Fayson, and aholton Hill, so far and only briefly, all the bigger corners. Initial thoughts are Jackson is the best, with Davis close behind. Kelly intrigues me, looks like he’s got some good ball skills.

The safeties I’ve looked at, Fitz, Marcus Allen, Quin Blanding, Derwin James, Ronnie Harrison, Kyzer White, Terrell Edmunds, Tre Flowers, Travin Blanchard. Love Kyzer, think he’s underrated as is Edmunds, think Blanding is gonna be a solid guy, along with Allen, James, Blanchard, and Flowers intrigue me, Blanchard especially but he’s had some off the field stuff.

I’ll gave to check out the guys you mentioned, I usually start with the bigger corners and safeties cause that’s what I like, work my way down so to speak. I’ve read the experts don’t think this is a great DB draft but I like a lot of these guys this year.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
This is why I despise the cutups and prefer watching the "every throw" videos. Picking and choosing a few plays to show can be very deceiving.
Vers the cut-ups ARE the "every throw" videos. They are exactly the same. They show every throw, not every completed pass.

Maybe you haven't read the OP for this thread or followed the games that were posted. But, every pass play, EVERY pass play the QBs (except for Jackson) were involved from those youtube game "every throw" cut-up was already posted, charted and broken down with a time stamp.

Just scroll up to the youtube cut-up of their games. You see the full game chart with EVERY play.

Maybe you didn't realize that every play from those games was charted, but now you do.


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So far ive only looked at D.Ward, Josh Jackson and B. Fayscon from last year.

Ive checked out Allen, Quin Blanding, Derwin James, Ronnie Harrison.

The guys I mentioned before were players from the Senior Bowl that caught my along with Trayvon Henderson. I have some gifs I'm dumping will post some of their 'flash' plays

Are there any specific games of Mike White that you want chop up in your thread?

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He had a rough game when he played Alabama, last season I believe, and a good one ve old dominion. That could be the good vs the bad for him.

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OK ed watched a couple games on your guys here's my take.....

Duke Dawson....Mirrors really well, great feet for it. I see him more as a slot, can he press, IDK. How fast is he? Those are my two questions for him. I know that's not much but I've only watched the Michigan game.

Reaves.... Jeremy or Malik? Assuming Jeremy. Ball skills. played both corner and safety, good in run support, lacks length and possibly athleticism, will make him probably have to stay at safety.

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Im excited for the combine....

it get a chance to see the prospects side by side help break them out of clusters and watch/re-watch and re-rank

going into the combine right now i have the QBs in a close cluster

using comps right now have

in no order

Josh Allen - a bigger armed, bigger bodied, less athletic, less leaderships traits version of Jake Locker a sprinkle of Joe Flacco

Sam Darnold - Andy Dalton, less polished Andrew Luck

Lamar Jackson - bigger, stronger armed, more athletic but less big game tested version DeShaun Watson

Baker Mayfield - bigger, strong armed version of Manziel w/ a sprinkle of Sam Bradford

Josh Rosen - better version of Connor Cook w/ a less athletic mix of Jameis Winston

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I'll Play.

Allen - Roethlisberger
Darnold - Luck
Jackson - Right Handed Vick
Mayfield - Wilson/Brees
Rosen - Eli Manning

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