DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus North Texas teacher dies after getting the flu

$116 copay? jeez.

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas...m_medium=social

North Texas teacher dies after getting the flu
By William Axford Updated 10:38 am, Monday, February 12, 2018

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Now Playing: Weatherford teacher dies from flu-related complications
Holland's husband said she started feeling sick last Monday. By Wednesday, she was diagnosed with influenza-b and developed pneumonia.

Media: Fox32
A North Texas teacher has died from complications from the flu.

Heather Holland, a second-grade teacher at Ikard Elementary School with the Weatherford Independent School District died over the weekend, the Weatherford Democrat reports. Holland got sick about a week ago and took medication, but delayed picking up the prescription due to the $116 copay, according to the newspaper.

BRUTAL SEASON: This map of Texas explains why everyone you know has the flu

Heather Holland, 38, is a second grade teacher at Ikard Elementary School who died on Sunday due to complications of the flu.>>>See 10 flu prevention tips ... Photo: Weatherford ISD
Photo: Weatherford ISD
IMAGE 1 OF 15Heather Holland, 38, is a second grade teacher at Ikard Elementary School who died on Sunday due to complications of the flu.>>>See 10 flu prevention tips ...IMAGE 1 OF 15 Heather Holland, 38, is a second grade teacher at Ikard Elementary School who died on Sunday due to complications of the flu.>>>See 10 flu prevention tips ...
By Friday night, Holland's condition worsened and she was taken to the hospital. Her husband Frank Holland told the Weatherford Democrat that she died Sunday morning.

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"She loved helping people, helping the kids, and the kids loved her," Holland's husband told the Weatherford Democrat.

Charlotte LaGrone, a spokeswoman for Weatherford ISD, told news station CBS DFW that counselors are available at the school for the rest of the week to help students and school staff cope with the sudden loss. She added that custodians started deep cleaning the district's schools in December to keep students from getting sick, and that the specific campus where Holland was employed had received an additional cleaning on Friday, Feb. 2.

MORE FLU IN TEXAS: Texas teacher is on life support after contracting two strains of the flu

This year's flu season has been particularly deadly, with flu-related deaths being reported across the nation. Last month, five flu-related deaths were reported in the greater Houston area. The CDC reports the flu is widespread across America this year and possibly won't peak until March.

Sad. Thoughts for her family. I thought Unions had great insurance and benefits? I have never been apart of one, so i maybe mistaken. . . .

Texas teachers aren't unionized as its illegal to strike as a teacher in Texas.

This is awful.

We lost a member of our violin section to influenza during the holiday break. I'd known Molly for 30 years. A total sweetheart. Reports are she'd been through the worst of it and was supposedly on the mend. It took every one by surprise.

You can have a union in a right to work state.. you just can't force people to join it.

And Texas actually does have a teachers union..

Yes, I edited my post to adjust why I know she's not union. I lived in Texas for 8 years so I know it's illegal for teachers to be union there.

gage, if you lived there then I will defer but can you explain this?



From here

A union in name only isn't a union. Texas law prohibits teachers from going on strike. Any teachers that do lose their license. You may also not enter into collective bargaining with the state.

Texas Law

The Texas AFT can be of some assistance in arbitration, but you aren't getting a pay raise through them. The only way a union can hope to force pay raises (or benefits like medical) is through collective bargaining, and if need be, striking. If you can't strike, what leverage do you have?

The $116 was most likely not a co-pay...she likely has a HDHP with HSA where medical and RX is commingled in the deductible.

Honestly....there is no reason anyone should not be able to finance or afford a $100 emergency. People need to heed the advice of every money manager in the world and fund and emergency account.

I don't think it matters what funding mechanism she had that led to the cost of tamiflu being $116. Why exactly is that important to you?

Also, you're making an appeal to purity, a "No True Scotsman" claim that no proper person would ever bypass medication they could afford to buy. I find it impossible to believe that out of those people who have emergency funds that they'd see a $116 tab for tamiflu and not a single one would say "eh, ill get better eventually, ill save the $116." I have plenty in my savings accounts and I've decided against purchases on plenty of instances that perhaps I should have ultimately made sooner, because I didn't feel I could justify the cost at the time.

It's unfortunate that we have people such as yourself that feel that people dying of illness is their fault when presented with difficult choices such as paying nutso prices for medical care. If you want to argue that the price is justified, have at it. I'll disagree with you but understand the free market reasonings. Just don't blame the victim.

The funding mechanism is of import...why...because HDHP are cheaper....you are supposed to use the savings to fund an HSA...otherwise buy the more expensive premium traditional plan that comes with cheap copays of $20-$30.

Maybe the traditional plan wasn’t an option....but that does not mean you ignore the facts that copays and deductibles are two different entities.

And I am glad that we now have a resident board member that can place a value on what something is worth...by your logic everything can be made more affordable if the employees making a product or providing a service were paid $7.25/hr....Hell do away with minimum wage laws and go with $7.25 a day.

Squabbling over what health plan she had is dodging the issue. I am not sure what you are getting at unless perhaps it's to say it's her fault she is dead? If that's what your getting at just come out and say it.



You might want to put hiking boots on with that slippery slope you're standing on. I'm merely bring attention to the facts that were presented in this story, which is that the woman did not want to spend $116 dollars for tamiflu, and later died of complications due to the flu. I'm specifically bringing attention to the fact that the cost of the tamiflu paid a key role in her delay in purchasing it. You seem to be getting bogged down in semantics and I suspect it's because you want to make her death to be her fault, rather than a reflection on the cost of healthcare.

If you have read any of my posts on the subject you would know that I do not make generic claims that healthcare should be "free" or "cheap" or anything of the sort. However we do have significant problems in how healthcare is priced, starting with the Chargemaster . Health Insurance in the united states is a shell game where the insurance company and hospitals play around with essentially made up numbers in an effort to make it seem like they are saving the consumer a bunch of money. $116 for tamiflu is a grossly inflated price that insurance carriers won't pay for anyway. My copay through my insurance is $10. I know my insurance does not pay $106 for the difference.

Do y'all know her Husband went and bought the tamiflu the very next day after she refused to buy it?

Yes it was not a money issue...we have skewed sense of worth...and evidence that the RX would likely not have done anything....reports are not saying these people are not dying from flu...but secondary infections that are running out of control

I had this flu, took about three weeks to completely get past it.

Was it the very next day? I didn't see that in the timeline provided by the Weatherford (source article). Either way, while I'm sure the timeline of when she took it is of some importance, I think the paramount takeaway is that she felt $116 was too much to pay. And maybe everyone on this board is so well off compared to me that they blow their nose with $100 bills. If so then I understand the disconnect. But I do well for myself and if the pharmacist told me it would cost $100 to get over the flu I'd probably balk at the figure too.

What is the skewed sense of worth? You seem to be running in circles. If money was no object to her she'd have paid the $116 and thought nothing else of it, and we wouldn't be talking about this article in the first place.

Saying she died of pneumonia and discounting the flu is ridiculous. Do you not understand cause and effect? That's like saying no one dies of gunshot wounds but rather the blood loss from a hole in the body. The reason people are dying of these secondary complications is because this strain of flu is pretty bad and it significantly weakens the hosts immune system.

In any event, you appear to have a deer in the headlights attitude about why the article is interesting, and want to drive off the rails into silly arguments that show a severe lack of understanding of how disease functions as well as how people make decisions about their money. Feel free to overpay for medications and express ignorance as to why others may not share your viewpoint.

SHE DOESN'T / DIDN'T MATTER. NONE OF THESE PEOPLE DYING FROM STUPID FLU MATTER.

If people mattered our leaders would put aside politics, would tell the big corps to back off, and would give us a universal single payer healthcare system. People dying over $100, $1, or $100K... what value can we put on their lives? How much is too much to save a life?

While we can still see stories like this and worse all the time, our leaders fight over who is not worth covering. AND the answer is or seems to be the rich. Insurance costs are crazy, drug prices are NUTS, and people are dying all while Nero fiddles.

The skewed sense of self worth....we will drop $100 on crap and not give two thoughts about it...but $100 for medical service or a needed home repair or investing in yourself is not worth it....we have a sense of entitlement to spend money on what we want...not on what we need...if it is needed it should be free or someone else’s responsibility.

OCD....please explain the funding mechanism for single payer...that saves businesses money and does not raise taxes...I will be on board....the push for single payer is all because the current system is too expensive for people....but not to expensive for uncle sugar....yet we have a thread complaining about the deficit already....and single payer just gonna dig it deeper.

OK, here it is.

The money comes from a tax. That tax will be less than you are paying for insurance that only covers part of your needs, and you don't have to pay that anymore! So we're already paying for it.

The government runs Medicaid, Medicare, the VA all on about 8% of costs. Insurance Company's are just middlemen that bring nothing to the table but a hand out for your money, they operate on 30% of costs. So that's a 22% saving to be tallied in somewhere too.

Then you would have to consider money saved by being allowed to negotiate drug prices down like other countries who pay less than half the prices we do. At a minimum those prices come down 20% if not 30-40%! So that has to go in the tally too.

Last but not the least of the cost saving factors on my list (there are more) is that doctors would be free and encouraged to do more to keep us fit in the first place with preventative medicine! If they are not beholden to the drug and insurance companies they can start to focus on prevention, medicinal treatment if needed, surgery as needed, physical rehab, mental rehab, addiction treatment, and anything else you and your doctor decide is needed.

Now mind you I said needed. Things like elective plastic surgery for non health reasons would not be covered. There is actually a free market for many services in other countries. There is even insurance systems for that market.

Now a lot of people say you wait longer. No you don't. Any emergency or urgent treatment takes priority and is delivered as needed immediately. Things like checkups, well visits, electives, non life threatening conditions might have to schedule an appointment that is out a month or two. But I have news for you, many health providers do that now due to the lack of doctors. So I don't see much issue here.

As part of the prevention programs we would educate about and assist people with things like diets, exercising, addiction prevention, and dealing with mental health.

Crazy we aren't already doing this.

Teach made a poor choice and it cost her her life.
Sad.
Bad choice.

Now the Left wants Government to fix it and protect us from ourselves once again.

What are you talking about? Trump ran on it! GREAT HEALTHCARE FOR EVERYONE! CHEAPER HEALTHCARE FOR EVERYONE!

This isn't the Left anything, Trump promised and owns this. At one point he even said he liked the thought of medicare for all.

People dying all around us everyday by making poor choices is not a government issue.

Doesn't the UK have one of those nice universal healthcare systems?

Flu outbreak: UK deaths triple with GPs seeing major rise in patients

Denis Campbell Health policy editor, Pamela Duncan and Peter Walker
Thu 18 Jan 2018 14.42 EST First published on Thu 18 Jan 2018 11.51 EST

Almost three times as many people are dying of flu in the UK this winter as last year, figures reveal.

After 35 more deaths last week, 120 people across the country have died of flu-related symptoms since early October, compared with 45 in the same period in 2016-17.

Separate figures, released on Thursday by the Royal College of GPs, showed that more than 30,000 people visited a GP last week as a result of influenza-like illness, an increase of more than 9,000 compared with the first week of January.

However, Public Health England (PHE) declared that while flu was rendering the largest number of people seriously unwell since the winter of 2010/11, it was still not an epidemic.

Last week saw 598 people admitted to hospital with flu, of whom 198 were so sick they had to be treated in an intensive care or high dependency unit. However, both numbers were lower than the previous week.

I am currently paying $550 a month and have never had a single claim denied. I just got a 2017 statement in which my claims exceeded $84,000....2016,2015,2014...all been approximately the same.
so you are telling me you are gonna do it for less and provide even more???

Remember my statement....can't raise taxes especially when 50% of Americans don't pay federal income tax.

Those claims of $84,000 are completely made up. I see you did not bother to read my link on the Chargemaster at all and why it's a scam. As an example, my wife broke her leg in 3 places in December. She is also pregnant with twins. I just got the bill from her hospital stay and surgery. $64,094. Whoa! Thankfully insurance covers most of it. But did it really cost $64094? Hardly. My wife got a visit from a Physical Therapist who stopped by for a half hour and did not return once during her 3 day stay at the hospital recovering. We got "charged" $1000 just for that visit. Do you think the 28 year old physical therapist made $1000 in that hour? No way. It's a made up number, to keep us in the dark on the true cost of health care.

Most EOBs I get go something like this:

Cost of service
Insurance plan "agreement" with hospital where magically thousands of dollars get taken off
Insurance plan deductible
Your out of pocket

If we knew the true cost of healthcare we'd be in a true uproar about it. Instead the hospital and insurance companies are playing people like you for a fool. Really educate yourself on the system to see what a scam it is.

You are right...$84k in claims...$52k paid by insurance and $6000 in my deductible.

Sorry that I am willing to pay $12000 to avoid the other $52k in liability.

I find that most people hating on insurance and medical actually have a low claim history at present....your time will come....it ain’t if but when

No one got paid $84k. Get your head out of the sand.

Also you should not make assumption about other people teedub! I decided to add up claims so far this year, because of my wifes ankle surgery and her being pregnant with twins (and those twins are at risk of Selective Fetal Growth PLUS Twin to Twin) and came to over $111k, and the twins aren't even born yet! So please don't assume my claim history.

My problem is that I'm telling you that the "claim" price and the actual price are very different things. What next, are you going to tell me that MSRP is the actual price of a car? Come on. Everything is negotiable, the problem is the negotiations are between insurance and medical on how to squeeze every dollar out of us, and to make it WORSE, make it look like they are doing us a favor.

Don't assume my situation, but better yet, don't assume that if something bad happens to someone that it must be their ignorance. I had no control over my wife's egg splitting in two. This teacher had no control over getting the flu. But in the US, the difference between our quality of care comes down to what insurance we carry, and if you can't pay up, then tough luck.

What ticks me off is that if you did not have insurance you would be responsible for the entire 111K

I broke it down..I paid $6000 in deductible and insurance paid $52K out of the billed $84k...you must have missed that...

as for getting the flu and splitting eggs...yea no choice..make a conscience choice to not buy the drug is a choice...husband made the right choice for her...it was too late though

Yep..and people say insurance is not worth it.

Yea, thats the worst part is that if you have no insurance, the victims in the hospital/insurance game are the uninsured, since they end up footing the hopelessly inflated bill.

You are demonstrating a complete inability to comprehend at this point. I have brought up four times in this thread why your comments on healthcare claim costs are meaningless. If you are just going to be a broken record and feign willful ignorance, there is no point in having a conversation.

Our health care prices are out of control in large part due to the scheme insurance providers have with network hospitals. If you don't care to listen to me fine, but there has been a lot of investigation done on this very problem:

http://content.time.com/time/subscriber/article/0,33009,2136864-1,00.html

https://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/31/a-new-health-care-approach-dont-hide-the-price/

If you think this system is fine and has your best interests in mind, then we'll just have to agree to disagree.



Do you feel her death is her own fault then?

I have set on a few health care symposiums where everyone said that costs could be reduced 60 to 70% if people paid their bills. So the $58k I/insurance paid in 2017 coukd have been $14k for 4 outpatient procedures. At that point...I re-evaluate my insurance cost bs self pay...but we live in a world of nonpayers that the rest have to finance.

The mandate I want to see is a mandate that you have to provide proof of financial ability to pay....insurance,private bond, cash up front.

I really hope we never go down this path as a nation.

Before you can get medical treatment?

Emergency triage treatment gets a pass... anything else...demonstrate you can pay...once that concept is ingrained in society then the patient is truly involved and doesn’t become a burden by passing their liabilities on to everyone else. We have dropped personal responsibility for victim status in most aspects of life.

Pardon me for being jaded...I see so much victimhood crap at work and yet see the lifestyles led....my place isn’t any different then any place else (behavior wise).....employer fronts employees $1800 into an HSA ($150 deposited each month).....day after deposit is made you see 1/3 off employees with draw HSA funds as cash for Friday night....same employees drop $50 plus a week on lottery tix....the always complain that they can’t afford their RX or see doctor and try to get stuff over on workman’s comp...we are not unique...same crap happens every where and I am supposed to buy the victim line...whatever

How can they withdraw funds from a HSA for a friday night out?

Not questioning YOU, per se, just wondering, overall.

Our HSA must be monitored closer than some?