People keep talking about fraud with disability/government assistance, but I asked in the other thread and didn’t get a response.
What’s the actual rate of fraud with those programs?
I'm not about to claim that there are not individuals (military and civilian) who fake injuries. But it is hard to do if there is not some kind of evidence that the injury does exist.
But, something that is not talked about is the number of military who are injured (physically and/or mentally) and never report it.
You can't get any figures to back it up, but I know that there are soldiers who need help mentally but refuse to ask for help because of the affect it might have on their careers.
While there is some fraud, there are some soldiers who fall between the cracks and are left to deal with their injuries without any medical help.
Rand Paul recently said that Republicans are hypocrites for complaining about obama's deficits, then turning around and giving 1 trillion dollar deficits.
accurate.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I just want to know if conservatives are still all about reigning in government spending or not.
Cause.....
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I just want to know if conservatives are still all about reigning in government spending or not.
Cause.....
Good news and bad news.
The Bad - They are all about pleasing Trump, period.
The Good - The adverse side effect of having one's nose in another's butt 24/7 is brown discoloration. Good news is the GOP is so far up Trump's they will be entirely brown soon. It will match their shirts!
Rand Paul recently said that Republicans are hypocrites for complaining about obama's deficits, then turning around and giving 1 trillion dollar deficits.
accurate.
Yep, and Rand Paul gained a fan in me. Hes willing to spesk the truth though so the party will crush him, just like they did his dad, who was also a fair and reasonable Republican.
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
I thought Trump said he knew how to fix the National Debt problem?
Well we know how he dealt with it in his personal businesses. Filing bankruptcy was his go to. Can’t really do that on this stage. I’m not sure he knows that.
I don’t think the US will ever get out of debt, either. But that was never really gonna happen.
What we CANT be doing is having more debt than our GDP.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I thought Trump said he knew how to fix the National Debt problem?
The most important issue facing our country and most people ignore it.
Maybe he lied?
I took a shot at Trump, but for the record, I think our politicians and national government no matter what party they belong to have failed miserably. I also think the general public needs to demand that our candidates are taking this issue seriously.
I agree w/arch and Swish that the issue will never be solved, but goodness, we need to make huge strides in such an extremely important issue.
It depends what your definition of 'solved' is -- most governments have debt. The question is whether it's under control.
This issue for me is when, as you pointed out, someone claims to want to get the debt under control and then does two things 1. commit to a massive increase in the total debt 2. cut income ... the economy is in great shape. We have low unemployment. Trickle down economics are questionable at best because they have been tried before and didn't work ... and here we are cutting taxes. I've heard more than a few reports suggesting there is limited impact the cuts can have because the economy is in good shape .. and if they have a major impact we can be in trouble if the economy gets too hot and it sill lead to spiraling inflation. I'm not an economist - but I see little upside to the tax cuts ... and of course the biggest winners? Trump's friends and the 1%ers ... who he claimed to be very upset about the cuts ...
The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.
1. It would take huge increases in taxe, combined with: 2. It would require very large gov't. cuts in spending.
Tell me how you float those ideas and get elected.
Bottom line is, the u.s. isn't getting out of debt.
I don't like that thought, but it is what it is.
No one wants to increase THEIR taxes - it's always someone else that should pay more. AND, no one wants to lose out on any benefits.
As always, jmo.
You are missing a third way to clear the debt: print more money.
The increase in the deficit (and therefore debt) is why I think ultimately the tax reform will be a loss for most americans, even those who received a reasonable tax deduction. Tax cuts like we are doing, with the deficit increasing off the tax plan will create quite a bit of inflation.
But our debt AND deficit have been building and building and rising and rising WITHOUT tax cuts.
You know as well as I do what printing more money would do. Nothing but hurt.
I think my points still stand.
NOBODY wants increased taxes - except unless it's increased taxes for someone else, AND no one wants reduced spending on them, their community, infrastructure, health care, etc.
There is no 'win' in any situation I can think of. Our gov't has become nothing more than a shell.
And that ain't just Trump. It ain't just O, it ain't just W.
It's society. I want this, and that, and even more, but I don't want to pay for it, I want someone else to pay for it. Look at the rich - they can afford to pay more, but I sure as hell can't. (completely forgetting that the rich actually spend money on things that provide jobs).
It's society: Why should I cook a healthy meal at home when I can just grab fast food, or go out and have someone else cook for me?
It's society: I want this and that and more.......but I sure as hell don't want to pay for it - someone else should pay.
It's society. I want to be paid more for what I do, here in America, but I damn sure will buy that new tv that's made in china, or japan, or taiwan......cause it's cheaper than what's made here in the states. And why the hell isn't my income going up? Buy the product I make, so I can spend money on things foreigners make cause it saves me money.
Oh, I want a raise, and more time off, and I want to work from home.
It's society. I want want want. I deserve deserve deserve.
WHAT????? Pay more in taxes? Get less in benefits? Hell no. Make someone else pay.
I can't really disagree with your sentiments. I think the word greed probably sums it up best. People want as much as possible and want to give up as little as possible. But is this level of greed a new thing ? If your contention is that nowadays people are greedy and that people were less greedy in the past, I have a hard time agreeing.
These days people want the government to help with health care and pensions. A generation ago the labor unions squeezed companies for those same benefits.
These days people want cheap goods from overseas. A generation ago people bought small cars from overseas, abandoning their American made cars. Gas was expensive so people went for VW beetles and other tiny cars.
Americans bought cheap suburban tract houses in the 60s and 70s to start the American dream, just like today.
I guess arch, I see what you're saying. Im just not seeing where society changed. Even if I think back to the roaring 20s, part of the reason so many people got in trouble was over extended credit. And perhaps your argument is that society didn't change. I don't want to put words in your mouth. But if society has always been greedy, why should we expect it to change? Should we not work within the framework of what works, to try to maximize it's effectiveness for good? Isn't that the argument for capitalism?
I want to have a real conversation w/out the usual BS sides crap that dominates this forum. Anyone willing?
I did start off by getting on Trump, but the National Debt issue has been an ongoing festering sore in Amercia's side for more presidency's than I can count.
I am not as politically educated as many of you, but I would like to learn through discussion rather than someone pointing fingers and shoving their biased opinions down my throat.
Thus, I ask:
--Do you think the National Debt is an issue that is hurting America's quality of life?
--Do you think that the National Debt is going to cause more problems for our country in the future?
--Do you think the National Debt should be more important and talked about more when we elect our national politicians?
--Do you think it is more important than issues such as gay rights, minority rights, abortion, gun control, healthcare, etc?
--What steps can we realistically make to ease the National Debt?
I have more detailed questions, but I will start there. I would appreciate intelligent, rational, and logical responses and I hope that this does not digress into the crap that most of these threads follow.
--Do you think the National Debt is an issue that is hurting America's quality of life?
On many more levels and much more than people think ... the DEBT is real ... were spending DOLLARS TODAY that could be SPENT ELSEWHERE ... and were spending LOTS OF DOLLARS TODAY on our debt ....
The money pie is only so big ... last year we spent over 200 billion on interest alone ... and that is with low interest rates ... as the economy continues to grow the interest rates will continue to rise and that will have us paying even more on the interest alone ... and the principal number .. its growing ... ever look on a CC statement at how long it will take to pay off your balance making minimum payments ... well in this case it would be NEVER because were not reducing the principal ...
So we’re paying well over 200 billion dollars in interest a year meanwhile the principal continues to grow ... not real tough math to figure out ...
This is a REALLY REALLY DEEP WELL with many twists and turns .... lots of factors play into this ...
I can see all of my questions sparked a lot of interest on the board? LOL
It's really too bad that this forum is just a platform for force-feeding personal opinions down the throats of others instead of a place to learn through honest and thoughtful conversation.
I'm sure most of us are political amateurs Vers. We may have some here with poly sci or law degrees but from the lines of work I see here, perhaps not.
I think the national debt is a balancing act. Not only should we not grow it with massive deficits, we actually shouldn't try to eliminate it either. We shouldn't for two reasons:
- lowering debt can only effectively be done with budget surplus. By that definition the govt is taking more money than it is spending. That's a hard sell. - some debt is good because it means other countries are investing in the USA. I suppose some nationalists would not like this, but I feel a strong global presence is important not just economically but also from a national security standpoint.
My personal uneducated opinion is the debt is needed, but not runaway debt like for instance the recent tax cuts. Companies will inflate prices. One of the most interesting things the govt did was allow 529 plans to be used for private primary school. The first thing those schools did was hold meetings to determine how much to raise prices. After all, their tuition is now largely tax free.
The main reason we need some debt is because of our presence as a global military leader, and as a super power. We need smaller countries to invest in the USA so they have some skin in the game, so to speak. This economic flow is one way other countries help fund our govt. Unfortunately with the new deficit pounding tax cuts the GOP enacted, the debt is just going to get worse and worse. Had they cut entitlements at the same time we'd be OK as regards the deficit, but...
I'll abstain from addressing your points right now, although I want to comment later. I agree w/a lot of what you say, but I do have a couple of friendly objections.
Right now, I just want to promote discussion rather than argue/debate/take a side.
It's like when I was a teacher----better to be the Guide on the Side, rather than the Sage on the Stage.
--Do you think the National Debt is an issue that is hurting America's quality of life?
I think what we're spending our debt on is what will hurt America. China has massive debt and is now getting the funding ready to have their global aid bomb and internal infrastructure project that will surely put them in further debt. However, it won't be a hindrance on them like our post 2008 debt will be on us and my kids, your gran kids.
Quote:
--Do you think that the National Debt is going to cause more problems for our country in the future?
Eventually. The age to get full benefits for Social security will get to an age that's outlandish. 67 for early baby boomers is outrageous. What will happen when that gets to 70? 73? People will want their money.
Quote:
--Do you think the National Debt should be more important and talked about more when we elect our national politicians?
Quote:
Maybe. I think the spending should be more talked about. Why the government doesn't allow reporters (Or people in general) to audit their numbers and report back to us is ridiculous. We need to eliminate waste and self audit our government.
[quote] --Do you think it is more important than issues such as gay rights, minority rights, abortion, gun control, healthcare, etc?
No. The rights of men and women come before how they make their means. Many on here would believe that morality triumphs over financial success, the macro expression of morality should be no different.
Quote:
--What steps can we realistically make to ease the National Debt?
Stop our foreign military presence and retreat from foreign affairs which includes global aid. The US's isolation has historically been a great thing for the country.
I guess people aren't interested. Discussing things intelligently isn't as productive as drawing lines in the sand and force-feeding opinions and pointing fingers while hurling insults.
I do appreciate your take. There were some things I disagreed with, but I enjoy different opinions. I think it's cool when people can disagree and work towards a common goal by working cooperatively.
I'm still holding out a bit of hope that some of the board's deeper thinkers find this thread and add to the comments that you, Diam, and gage made. Plus, I want to get my opinions out there at some point. LOL
--Do you think that the National Debt is going to cause more problems for our country in the future?
Its all ready hurting us ... there’s a thread on the board that may allude to what i’m About to say ... I firmly believe one of the reasons Trump has not been harsher on China and the currency manipulation since he took office is the fact we owe them a HUGE ASS CHUNK OF CHANGE ... its not the only reason IMO but its certainly one of them IMO ...
I feel HORRIBLE for what were doing to our kids today ... its a MORTAL SIN IMO ... a kid coming out of college today has a mortgage payment from their education and they have the debt to look forward to ... its a SHAME ...
DEBT is BAD ... u can justify some debt ... the amount of debt we have ... IRRESPONSIBLE on MULTIPLE LEVELS ...
Please explain to me how us having debt and owing other country’s money is a good thing ... that makes no sense ... last thing i want to do is be beholden to anyone much less another country ...
And how does it show other countries want to invest in America? ... there not investing in america .. there bailing us out .. we want them to build factories and set up research plants over here ... thats investing in America, not bailing us out ...
Please explain to me how us having debt and owing other country’s money is a good thing ... that makes no sense ... last thing i want to do is be beholden to anyone much less another country ...
And how does it show other countries want to invest in America? ... there not investing in america .. there bailing us out .. we want them to build factories and set up research plants over here ... thats investing in America, not bailing us out ...
While it is true that there are foreign debt investment in the US, claiming we are beholden to another country because of it is unfounded to me. You would need to explain how someone holding a treasury note controls the US govt. I own t bills and well, yet there is no shareholders meeting for me to attend! While it would be theoretically possible for one government to own a majority of US bonds, it does not mean that that country now runs our country. However you are also forgetting all of the individuals with t bills in 401ks, companies that buy t bills, and state govts that buy t bills for state pensions.
I could argue that the onus might be on you to prove the debt is bad at the govt level. The US has been in debt since 1835. England has been in debt for centuries. If this debt had caused us to default, or caused our currency to fail, or any other number of massive calamities, that is one thing. However, we have not done so. Instead the US has continued to grow economically and is currently a super power, debt and all. The countries who turned to austerity measures during the current economic cycle paid for their choice though, namely Greece and Spain. They significantly cut back on services rather than take on debt like the US did. Which country recovered quickly, and which ones are still trying to recover?
It is impossible for the US govt to hold no more debt unless we introduced austerity measures, went to negative interest rates, and stopped issuing t bills. You really don't want that to happen. I agree with fiscally conservative governance because we should be careful on what we invest in with our tax dollars, but we don't want the US govt to treat their debt like household debt.
--Do you think the National Debt should be more important and talked about more when we elect our national politicians?
100% ... why wouldn’t the financial futures of our children be important ... its silly that its not .... its just another example that goes to show what were doing makes no sense ... NONE ...
Think about it ... what won’t u do for your kids? ... yet, we as a society could seem to care less about strapping them with insurmountable debt ...
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