DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Mason Rudolph

I didn't see a thread for Mason so I thought I'd start one. I'm just starting my QB evaluations, and started with Mason because he's the first QB listed on DraftBreakdown.com. I haven't watched all of the tape yet, just the Pitt & Oklahoma games so far. Two games at opposite end of the spectrum, but both showcase his talent and flaws fairly well.

First, this kid has the size and the tools, and has a decent arm. His deep ball passes are beautiful and accurate. Overall he accurate within his system, but WRs are usually wide open. He has good touch, a quick, compact delivery, gets rid of the ball quickly, and shows decent foot work, staying on the balls of his feet. He doesn't get rattled in the pocket and is mentally tough in that he doesn't whither after he makes a mistake.

On the downside he plays from the shotgun (I'm not sure, is it the air raid?), usually locks onto his first receiver, and can be baited by the defense. He may be weak in his post snap reads, and may have trouble seeing the field. I think he'll be a good pro, but will need time to develop. You have to wonder if he can throw into the tight coverages in the pros. He had trouble when his receivers were well defended against Oklahoma.

I'll add more later if I see other things when I view the other tapes.

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.ph...-on#Post1386158

don't know if they want both threads or not.

Sorry, didn't realize there was a Mason Rudolph thread. Must be the missing name. Feel free to move this refs... and perhaps rename the existing thread.

The thread title of the other thread definitely lacks clarity.

And most likely could be referring to every QB in the draft by now.

And Hue Jackson's coaching ability.

And Sashi Brown's roster building ability.

Nah the title still fits especially when you look at media coverage. Then again you could say I worked hard to make the title not so true anymore too lol. Either way it was true before we had 4 pages of discussion on it and 2342342342344 pages through the other threads lol

If refs want they can move the other posts to this one if they like to avoid the rehash of everything. I certainly don't care about the thread name.

Gundy has been the head coach there for maybe 15 years, so I would assume the system is basically the same.

He is nothing like Weeden. Mason makes quick decisions and gets rid of the ball quickly most of the time. The only thing you can say that is similar is that they both have strong arms and enjoy making trick shots. Mason is always WAY better under pressure too.

The two biggest downfalls of the Bronze Bomber. I feel better about Rudolph than Weeden too, although I was excited about Weeden at the time (just didn't recognize those traits).

Razor, do you have any cut-ups showing that Mason has a strong arm? I’m not really saying he doesn’t but I haven’t really seen it. He may have a stronger arm then I think, idk. I question if he can fit it into tight windows, or throw with velocity to the opposite side of the field. I think his arm is good enough but question if it’s strong. He throws a great deep ball, I agree with you on that but I think he does it by putting air under the ball, letting his receivers run under it not by throwing frozen ropes down the field. I hope you can give me an example.

I prefer deep passes that fall into the bucket vs throwing it with a low arc on a rope. When it's thrown with a higher arc and lands over the shoulder into the WR hands aka bucket it almost impossible to intercept that pass or break it up without a pass interference call. When it's thrown on a low arc aka "on a rope" it's much easier for defenders to get a jump on the ball and intercept it. It takes a lot more skill and touch to drop one in the bucket. Joe Montana was famous for doing it.

Just grabing random video since I don't have any special cut ups. Still if you watch his games you will see tons of deep ball passes since he throws a TON of them.

Anyways here is a pass that shows him repeated scanning the field, groing through progressions, evading the rush, and then throwing the bomb just before he gets nailed. It goes like 40 plus yards in the air.


7 minute video


106
159
428

Fun video showing every TD in 2017


at 501 he throws a perfect depp ball td
512 another one
646 hits in stride for a perfect pass
700 another one.

Trust me his arm strength is pretty darn great.

Watched those videos, and while it shows he does throw a good deep ball, from what I saw, they don’t show a strong arm, they show an adequate arm but not reall what I’d call a strong arm. I’d say pretty much all the QBs in the league could make throws of that length. I’m not trying to bash on your QB or anything, I think he does a lot of things well, I just have t seen the big arm. I think his arm is perfectly adequate, I’d say his arm is on par with say a Drew Brees. Strong enough but maybe not elite.

Like I’ve said I do t really know how strong his arm is, I just haven’t seen him show a big arm on tape, it may be bigger then what he has shown. I mean no disrespect. I’m not a scout or anything and may not be looking at the right things.

Dean there are not that many QB in the NFL that can land a 50 yard pass through the air and drop it in the bucket and hit the guy in stride. If you go back and look at the throwing motion its smooth and relaxed on those deep passes. He can throw it in the end zone from the 25 yard line. That means on the first play of the drive he can score a TD at any given moment and as he throws those bombs it's not a 20% chance like most QBs but a 50% chance. He throws an insanely accurate deep ball and it takes real arm strength to deliver the ball that accurately when going deep so often.

He does throw a good deep ball, I’m not refuting that, what I question, cause I haven’t seen him do it, is wether he can hit a deep out when throwing from the oposite hash, a throw that more often then not needs to have some zip on it or it ends up being picked by the corner or safety, can’t be lobbed in there. Can he do that? If not that will limit what you can do on offense. Probably less then half the QBs in the league can make that throw so it can be worked around. I just haven’t seen Mason do it so I’m questioning wether he can. Plus if his arm is t as strong as you say he may have trouble fitting it into some of the tighter windows he’s gonna see in the NFL. It’s just a question I have about him, that’s all. It’s why I think he’s be a better fit in a true west coast offense. I still think he’s got a good chance to be a good QB. Plus I’m very critical every year when it comes to the QBs.

I agree w/you for the most part. Too many people think throwing the bomb equates to elite arm strength and that is simply not true.

Thorns, it's great the dude throws beautiful Deep stuff.

What's he like Inside 20 Yards? The Intermediate stuff? Where 90% of passes are thrown weekly?

I always liked that site that breaks down the down and distance stuff. Behind the LOS, inside 10 yards, 10-20 left, right, center etc.

I'm glad to see many interested enough to ask about mason. I'm too lazy to pick apart video for hours to find your answer though lol. Hey just being honest ^^ I'll try to find some for you though. It tough though because he throws so many beautiful deep passes that any short video will always be full of his deep balls.

I will say this though. When mason puts muscle on the ball to add velocity his WRs ended up dropping them from what I saw. He tends to focus more on throwing with touch than with velocity. I think it's a thing where they are coaching him to throw that way. Personally I love it. I am not a big fan of 10-15 yard missiles that can't be caught half the time.

He can throw it to a jet ski going far faster than an NFL WR can run bouncing up and down and nail the guy right in the chest though so I think he has darn good accuracy =P


That being said, I don't think his arm is geared toward short zip passes because even his short passes tend to be thrown with a bit of an arc. It seldom travels a straight line and I think it's on purpose because it tends to be easier to catch that way.

OK watch this video and you will see several time where he throws short to medium passes on a rope with zip. 8:30 especially.



311 zip pass for a td in short yardage in the redzone
428
510

No is is not an aaron rodgers with extreme zip on short to medium passes but there is still plenty of zip there when he wants to put it there.

Anyways I thought I would address another point. Some of you think of this guy as a WCO guy and he is not. This guy is the perfect QB for a vertical system that our OC and Hue like to run. He has a high completion rate on all passes so yes he can play any system. He is accurate on all sides of the field.

The thing is he is SO accurate on deep passes and with the style of throw he makes being hard to intercept it's also low risk. With the way he likes to drop it in the bucket vs throwing it on a rope the ball is coming at the WR in a way that he is the only one who can make a play on the ball if he runs his route correctly. When you throw it in on a rope the chances of an interception are GREATLY increased because the defense just has to step in between. A perfect bucket throw just about can't be stopped without a pass interference call because you will have to grab the WR to stop him from catching it. Gordon would have a field day with Mason hitting him in stride and no one could stop him.


205 is a good example because you can't intercept this deep ball

There you go almost an hour of my time =P

Too tired to get into how I love how well he reads and manipulates defenses post snap but man he is so good at it.

You can make a legit case of success for any of 6 QB's in this draft. There are positives with all of them as well as some negatives. There are even some 2nd tier guys that look decent. Let's hope we finally pick a good one that will be our franchise QB for many years.

Definitely Homewood Dog. I have said so many times already that this is the draft that will revive the NFL for QBs.

There is no doubt at least a couple of these guys are going to be top shelf NFL quarterbacks. I go back and forth on all of them, ironically, except Darnold. Not a fan. But we have a real GM and they will learn a lot in interviews and combine. We hold all the cards!

I like Rudolph a lot, but with the #1 overall I think it’s too tempting not to draft a top QB prospects.

Any chance we draft a QB at #1 AND grab Rudolph in late round 2 or early 3?

Go into TC with FA (Keennum/Mcarron/etc), Kizer, Darnold/Rosen and Rudolph.

It worked for Washington/Cousins

I honestly think 5-6 QBs will be gone by the first round. I don't think Mason will last beyond the steelers so we would have to move up ahead of them to grab him.

The fun things is all of them are so unique in style its really hard to say who will go where for me. Mason is the hardest to read. Teams are so hush hush on him that I think there are several teams trying to make a move on him but trying not to alert anyone. Like I said before, "The one they talk about the most and the one they talk about the least are usually the ones they like the most." Darold and Rosen are talked about so much I kind of think of them the same. Mason is the one there is almost absolute silence on so he is the one talked about the least of the top QBs.

A team is going to fall in love with the accuracy of Mason's deep ball in the first round. Don't be shocked if it's the Browns because he fits the system better than any QB in this draft and most likely will start day 1.

Like I said his arm is adequate, at least that’s what I see, it’s ok if you see a big arm, he may actually have a big arm. I can’t argue against it, I just haven’t seen it yet.


This really isn’t a knock against Rudolph or anything but do they even have any safeties in the big 12? I don’t know if I’ve ever seen so many receivers one on one like that. Mason takes advantage of that to its fullest.

Mason likes to manipulate safeties by using fakes and eye misdirection. I mean he really does a number on them with his post snap reads.

Manipulate them completely out of the picture? I barely saw a safety anywhere. I don’t think any QB manipulates a safety that much.

Yeah he actually has sometimes totally misdirected safeties into going away from his target WR. Jimmy G. did that a lot in college too and it's pretty rare to see but Mason is pretty good at it. Jimmy G. would do it so well he would actually make them trip over themselves and fall down sometimes.

My issue with evaluating Mason is his WR's.
I would be hard pressed to come up with a better Wr corp in college football.
How much of Mason's success is directly related to that?
I don't have an answer, it is something that is causing me difficulty in his evaluation.

Really? I mean Washington is decent but nobody on this forum is made a claim for him. Atemen blows routes all the team and drops the ball whenever there is real heat put on it. They are just average WRs not elite. I wouldn't mind grabbing washington with one of our second rounders though after we grab mason since they would already have good chemistry together.

Seriously though it's just an average group of WRs. It's those easy to catch deep bombs that inflate their numbers.

He may manipulate safeties, but not off the field. There are no safeties even in the picture on some of those videos. I’m thinking it’s a combination of some not very good safeties, a lot of one on one coverage, offensive and defensive schemes. Brady or any QB manipulates a safety enough to make them not show up in the video. The big 12 isn’t noted for there defenses either. And no offense to you or Rudolph(like I said he takes advantage of the one on one coverage) but those throws are a lot easier then some of the throws I’ve seen Rosen, Darnold, and Allen make. It’s just like Mayfield, those throws are just easier to make. I’m not saying they can’t make the tougher throws but those throws weren’t that type.

Really. I think their Wr's are pretty darn good.

I can see Washington getting drafted in the 1st and Atemen going in the 2nd round.

They’re both ranked in the top 20 of this years draft for WRs per nfldraftscout.

Just a couple websites that I have bookmarked - didn't do a full google search.

GBNreport.com has them at #4 and #11
Drafttek.com has them at #2 and #4

j/c:

People always talk about how Big 12 QBs are so accurate and how good they are, but fail to consider how awful Big 12 D's are.

And the offenses? LOL.........Please save the "going through progressions and looking off safeties" for those who don't know squat about football.

Nfldraftscout is a little more up to date then draftek is, but I do like the way they breakdown the players into different positions.

I think Razorthorn is Mason Rudolph's agent.