That's the million dollar question.. kids are into cliques, and cliques develop likes and dislikes of other cliques, often for rather illogical reasons.. it's been like this since I was in HS and many decades (centuries) before that. Usually if you are in a clique, other cliques might pick, mock, and make fun but you still have your group, your support... some kids don't seem to fit into any of the cliques.. it seems to be that they are sometimes bullied but more often than not, they just feel invisible.. I heard one such kid say he WISHED he would be picked on, at least then he would know others knew he existed.
I don't know enough about psychology/psychiatry to say what it is in a kids personality that just seems to prevent them from making any meaningful friends at all. I guess there are probably a wide variety of reasons..
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also, we need to figure out how to prevent this. there's got to be some sort of prevention methods.
I agree. I doubt you can prevent it 100% of the time but we should be able to greatly reduce it. Counseling, maybe medication, there are ways to help kids like this... but first somebody has to recognize it and many of these kids become masters at hiding it, even from their own parents (who may or may not be all that involved).. like it looks like this kid didn't have a lot of support at home, especially after his mom died.. but by all accounts the kids at Columbine had pretty nice family structure to rely on... yet it happened anyway.
then even if you identify it, then somebody has to acknowledge it.. like the parents, most parents really don't want to admit their kid has serious issues... I guess that's an ego thing, they don't want to admit their kid is a potential danger to him/herself or others...
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while i'm not totally against some sort of gun control, gun control doesn't change the hearts of men.
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
DC, Kids have been branded outcasts for years. This did not happen just yesterday. That young man had mental problems that people saw yet our crap American system did not see nor address those problems. Kids like him are crying out but our system does not work efficient enough to get them some type of help. Yes, after the parent passed away, someone should have had him looked at and recommended some serious couch time.
Maybe instead of wasting money on silly parades or wall, spend some of that money on funding mental health providers, case workers ..etc. But NOPE, thats not the american way!!
So then the shootings will keep occurring. OH, and since he has these mental problems, lets give him access to guns, nothing will happen!! He NEEDS his access to guns!!
I've been trying to keep up with this and it is not very clear who this kid was, and what group(s) he belonged to. A couple media outlets are backtracking now and saying the reports of white supremacist connections were the result of a prank and misunderstanding, and there's no real evidence to suggest that is what he was.
It's quite an article. Here's the broadest and possibly most important takeaway, and something to keep in mind in the future:
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There tends to be an information vacuum after a mass shooting, and trolls and propagandists often take advantage of the confusion in order to promote their own interests.
I believe the first action states will focus on is making sure no one can bring a gun onto school grounds.
If someone attempts to breach school security, they must be met with enough force to insure the safety of the students and faculty on school property.
PROTECTING OUR STUDENTS...those words must meaning!
Here's a question and maybe one of the teachers, school administrators, or such can fill in some of the details.
What is the security like in schools today? I imagine there is a quite a difference between schools depending on funding, the severity of behavioral problems at the school, attitudes of the community, etc. Some schools already have police officers on site. I've been told that most schools are pretty locked down during the day, which is a bit different than how I remember things.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is, what is the situation now, and how should it realistically be improved?
I can't speak for all schools.. but in Broward County where this happened, there is a policy that every school has one or two armed officers on campus all day. Didn't seem to matter.
All I want to know is how many magazines and how large were they.
Focus on one problem that is an underling issue with mass murder.
I'm sure there will be plenty of magazines and even more newspapers that will put the killer front and center and give him the attention he was desperately seeking.
Or were you talking about another underlying issue?
That young man had mental problems that people saw yet our crap American system did not see nor address those problems. Kids like him are crying out but our system does not work efficient enough to get them some type of help.
I fail to see how or why this is a federal problem. Schools are owned and operated at the local level, policies are set at the local level, funding comes from the local level, problems like this are identified and best addressed at the local level. There is NO federal program that is going to make this go away. It will take actual communities getting involved and being more aware and more caring.
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Maybe instead of wasting money on silly parades or wall, spend some of that money on funding mental health providers, case workers ..etc. But NOPE, thats not the american way!!
This is about the 3rd or 4th time I've seen "the wall and parade" brought up to somehow try to make this about Trump... and of the people that have brought it up, I don't remember a single one whining about the money Obama was wasting and saying how it should be diverted to pay for this stuff.
It's just a chance to take cheap shots at Trump.. It's like the parent that I saw ranting and screaming at Trump on the news tonight. She's burying her 14 year old daughter, I have a 14 year old daughter and I can only imagine how torn up she is and looking for somebody to blame... I get her emotional outburst... but her rant at Trump was misdirected.
The suspected Florida high-school shooter, Nikolas Cruz, confessed to committing the massacre on Thursday, a police report said. He arrived at the high school via Uber, and visited a Walmart and McDonald's after the shooting, the sheriff said. Cruz is being held without bond on 17 counts of premeditated murder. Cruz may have been a member of a white nationalist militia, the group's leader said Thursday, but that link has not been confirmed by authorities. The suspected Florida high-school shooter, 19-year-old Nikolas Cruz, has confessed to committing the massacre that killed 17 on Wednesday, a Broward County Sheriff's Office report said.
Sheriff Scott Israel laid out a timeline of the shooting on Thursday, telling reporters that Cruz arrived at the school around 2:19 p.m. local time via an Uber.
Cruz then entered the school carrying his legally purchased AR-15 rifle in a black, soft case, Israel said. He walked up the east stairwell, then allegedly opened fire in several classrooms before shooting another victim in the west stairwell.
According to the sheriff's report, Cruz told the officers interrogating him that he "began shooting students that he saw in the hallways and on school grounds." After he ceased fire, Cruz then dropped his rifle and backpack with ammunition on the third floor, ran down the stairs, and exited the building, blending himself into the crowds of fleeing students, Israel said.
In an odd twist, Cruz then visited a Walmart and bought a drink at the Subway inside the Walmart, sat down for a period of time in a McDonald's, then left on foot and was arrested by local police around 3:41 p.m., according to Israel.
Cruz was ordered to be held without bond on 17 counts of premeditated murder in his court appearance on Thursday. Cruz's public defender, Melisa McNeill, told reporters that Cruz is remorseful for his actions and a "broken human being."
Sheriff says no connection to white nationalist militia
More confusion emerged Thursday after media outlets reported that Cruz may have been a member of a white nationalist militia.
The leader of the Republic of Florida, Jordan Jereb, told the Associated Press that Cruz belonged to the group and had participated in at least one paramilitary drill in Tallahassee.
Jereb told The Associated Press that he didn't know Cruz personally and that Cruz "acted on his own behalf of what he just did and he's solely responsible for what he just did."
But Tallahassee authorities told the Tallahassee Democrat that they've found no connections between Cruz and the militia so far.
Lt. Grady Jordan of the Leon County Sheriff's Office told the Associated Press that deputies have arrested Jereb at least four times in the last four years, and that they closely monitor the group's members.
He said his office has "very solid" information on ROF and found "no known ties that we have that can connect" Cruz to the militia.
Florida school shooting: Timeline of the slaughter
Linda Trischitta, Contact Reporter Sun Sentinel Feb 15,2015 link
Nikolas Cruz showed up at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in an Uber car --- with a rifle inside a duffel bag — and walked purposefully toward the campus.
A school worker recognized him as a “former troubled student,” according to a police report. He was wearing a maroon shirt, black pants and a black cap, carrying the duffel bag and wearing a black backpack loaded with ammunition.
The employee radioed a colleague to alert him that Cruz was headed toward Building 1200.
Within minutes, shooting began, ultimately leaving 17 people deadWednesday at the school in Parkland.
On Thursday, Broward Sheriff’s Office released an arrest report and a timeline of the massacre, providing a harrowing look at the moments before, during and after the shooting.
According to Sheriff Scott Israel:
-- 2:19 p.m. The Uber car drops Cruz off. Cruz entered the east stairwell of the 1200 building and pulled the rifle out of the case.
-- 2:21 p.m. Cruz began shooting into rooms 1213, 1216 and 1214. He climbed the west stairwell to the second floor and shot a victim in room 1234. Cruz then took the east stairwell to the third floor, where he dropped his weapon and backpack and ran down the stairs and out of the building to toward the tennis courts and then turned south.
He stopped at a Walmart store, bought a drink at a Subway shop and continued walking.
-- 3:41 p.m. Cruz’s next stop was a McDonald’s, where he sat briefly. Police caught up to him at 4700 Wyndham Lakes Drive in Coral Springs and took him into custody.
The police report said Cruz admitted to a detective that he shot students he saw on school grounds. He fired “well over 100 shots,” a law enforcement source told the South Florida Sun Sentinel.
He said he ditched the gun, ammunition and a vest that held more bullets so he could blend into the crowd that swarmed the campus in the panicked atmosphere after the killings, the report said.
After Cruz was arrested, the school monitor identified him, as did the Uber driver.
Judge Kim Theresa Mollica on Thursday denied bond for Cruz during his first court appearance, when he wore an orange jumpsuit while shackled at his waist and ankles. He kept his face down during most of the hearing when he was told he would face 17 counts of premeditated murder.
Chief Assistant Public Defender Gordon Weekes called his agency’s client “a deeply troubled child” who has “significant depression” after the loss of his mother in November.
This is the best writing on the "timeline" that I've been able to find..it comes the WTVG, Toledo, Ohio.
Timeline of the Florida high school shooting
Posted: Thu 11:55 PM, Feb 15, 2018 | Updated: Thu 11:56 PM, Feb 15, 2018 link
TOLEDO, Oh. (WTVG)- Below is a full timeline of events from the Broward County Sheriff's Office: 2:06 PM - Uber picks up suspect.
2:19 PM - Uber drops off suspect at Stoneman Douglas High School.
2:21:18 PM- Suspect Enters East Stairwell of Building 12 with rifle inside a black, soft case.
2:21:30 PM- Suspect exits stairwell with rifle out removed from the rifle case.
2:21:33 PM- Suspect has rifle ready and begins shooting into rooms 1215,1216,1214, back to 1216, back to 1215 and then to 1213. Suspect then takes the West stairwell to 2nd floor and shoots victim in room 1234.
2:24:39 PM - Suspect takes the East stairwell to the 3rd floor.
2:27:37 PM - Suspect enters 3rd stairwell, drops rifle and backpack and runs down the stairs.
2:28:35 PM - Suspect exits Building 12 and runs westwith others who are fleeing the area.
2:29:51 PM - Suspect crosses field and runs west with others who are fleeing the area.
2:50 PM - Suspect arrives at the Walmart, enters the store and buys a drink at the Subway, then leaves on foot.
3:01 PM - Suspect goes to McDonalds, sits down for a short time, and then leaves on foot.
3:41 PM - Suspect is detained at 4700 Wyndham Lakes Dr., Coral Springs by an officer from Coconut Creek PD. A show up is conducted at that location by BSO homicide detectives. He is positively identified and taken into custody.
The teenager accused of using a semi-automatic rifle to kill 17 people at a Florida high school confessed to carrying out one of the nation's deadliest school shootings and carried extra ammunition in his backpack, according to a sheriff's department report released Thursday.
Nikolas Cruz told investigators that he shot students in the hallways and on the grounds of Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, north of Miami, the report from the Broward County Sheriff's Office said.
Cruz said he brought more loaded magazines to the school and kept them in the backpack until he got to campus.
As the gunman moved through the school, he fired into five classrooms - four on the first floor and one on the second floor, Sheriff Scott Israel said.
The shooting lasted for three minutes. The assailant then went to the third floor and dropped his AR-15 rifle and the backpack and ran out of the building, attempting to blend in with fleeing students, Israel said.
After the rampage, the suspect headed to a Wal-Mart and bought a drink at a Subway restaurant before walking to a McDonald's. He was taken into custody about 40 minutes after leaving the McDonald's, the sheriff said.
A day after the attack, a fuller portrait emerged of the shooter, a loner who had worked at a dollar store, joined the school's ROTC program and posted photos of weapons on Instagram. At least one student said classmates joked that Cruz would "be the one to shoot up the school."
The 19-year-old orphan whose mother died last year was charged with murder Thursday in the assault that devastated this sleepy community on the edge of the Everglades. It was the nation's deadliest school attack since a gunman targeted an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut, more than five years ago.
On the heels of Wednesday’s tragic school shooting in Florida, the debate over gun control is starting up again.
It’s a contentious issue, and one that many feel is complicated by the heavy spending the National Rifle Association (NRA) and other gun lobby groups invest in political races. And the longer some politicians have been in business, the more money they’ve received from the groups.
In the 2016 election, the NRA spent $11,438,118 to support Donald Trump—and another $19,756,346 to oppose Hillary Clinton. That’s over $31 million spent on one presidential race.
Presidential candidates aren’t the only ones who benefit from the NRA’s largess, though. Here’s a look at the top career recipients of NRA funding, as calculated by the Center for Responsive Politics and the New York Times.
Top 5 Senators With the Most Contributions From the NRA
John McCain (R, AZ) – $7.74 million
Richard Burr (R, NC) – $6.99 million
Roy Blunt (R, MO) – $4.55 million
Thom Tillis (R, NC) – $4.42 million
Cory Gardner (R, CO) – $3.88 million
Top 5 Representatives With the Most Contributions From the NRA
i always find it funny with the rhetoric of "we need MORE people with guns to stop this!!"
yea, as if we don't already have enough psycho's who are armed to begin with. lets give em more guns. that's SURELY gonna help the problem.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Once again the focus is not on what is causing these problems w/our youths and the focus is on gun control and political platforms.
Keep your heads in the sand.
We have so many pusses in our society. No one wants to address things like "do we allow emotionally disturbed children to remain the general populations of our schools?" "Do we provide more mental health programs to our youths who are affected by the disease?"
Nah, we lobby for and against guns. We talk about political and social alliances. Meanwhile, untold numbers of our youths are facing serious mental and emotional complications that we ignore because it is too uncomfortable to deal with.
Once again the focus is not on what is causing these problems w/our youths and the focus is on gun control and political platforms.
this is false. we just had a convo about this yesterday in this thread.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
DC, Apparently you forgot how things are funded in america. Anytime a local, big project is brought up, the second breath out a municipalities mouth is "How much money can we get from the Feds". Second, there are times when a federal push sets the tone TO the State/local level.
And stop crying about Trump's comment about "the wall or parade". Mind you, if Trump didn't want to waste 25+Billion or 30+ Million on those things, they would not come up!! Sometimes you have to OWN the stupidity that comes out of your mouth! Trump Owns that. As far as that parent, I saw her also, and yes, her rant should have been at the govt as a whole, not per se Trump!. BUT when you are sitting in the #1 chair - AKA the Pres, then you are who the people look too first to set the tone or lead!!
So he (like many shooters) was/is on medication and...
Florida gunman says 'demon voices' told him how to pull off school shooting and police reveal they were called out 39 TIMES to his family home before his mother died last year
click the link and look at the photo. you don't joke around like that.
i swear, the state of florida constantly gives the rest of the country reasons not to move there.
ever.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
besides, it's the same state where they had that one dude eating people's faces.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
when people talk about "european" heritage from the militia groups that guys like the shooter is part of, it makes it known that they don't actually know what europeans think of americans on a daily basis.
we get roasted by europeans and our obsession over guns. this just dropped:
my mother in law sent me this. its pathetic.....and also very enlightening all in one.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Once again the focus is not on what is causing these problems w/our youths and the focus is on gun control and political platforms.
Keep your heads in the sand.
We have so many pusses in our society. No one wants to address things like "do we allow emotionally disturbed children to remain the general populations of our schools?" "Do we provide more mental health programs to our youths who are affected by the disease?"
Nah, we lobby for and against guns. We talk about political and social alliances. Meanwhile, untold numbers of our youths are facing serious mental and emotional complications that we ignore because it is too uncomfortable to deal with.
You reap what you sow.
Society has gone off the deep end. So many people live badly and don't even realize it. Where to start..
(We is used to refer to many of us in general; they may not all apply to any one particular reader.)
- We watch sports obsessively, but don't actually play sports or exercise regularly ourselves.
- We eat chemical-laden, manufactured junk food that is neither nutritious nor filling.
- We default to stimulating and often not rewarding activities such as watching TV, social media, playing video games, surfing the web, etc.
- We send our kids to schools where they spend most of their days learning about the stupidest things, while not teaching them about anything that's important in adult life (to say nothing about the lack of sunshine, exercise, etc.)
- Those who act up in such an unnatural environment get drugged out of their minds, so they don't cause disruption.
- Sleep disorders are rampant due to blue light emitting phones, tablets, computers, etc. and this has been made worse by the recent widespread usage of LED light bulbs. Basically the circadian sleep phase gets pushed back, people can't fall asleep and get woken by a jarring alarm clock every morning and rarely actually get refreshing sleep.
Need I go on? What do you think happens to someone who eats crap, doesn't exercise, spends most of their time on the internet, can't sleep at night, gets loaded up on (what should be) experimental prescription drugs, and on and on it goes? What you get is millions and millions of people who are depressed, unhealthy, miserable, and some of them just snap. Few people take these issues seriously and things are only going to get worse.
Our environment affects all of us to some degree but it affects young people the most because young minds are more plastic/malleable. You end up with people who think eating Tide pods is a good idea.
Serious guestion ....Why aren't you and the other progressive getting all passionate about the 771 murders with guns in Chicago in 2017 that is a yearly average for at least 10 yrs. Almost every major city has the same problem and all we get from you guy is ...crickets...crickets No gun control issues with those Liberal run cities pffffffft.
the country has made it clear that they care more about white timmy's and their mental health problems than Tyrone's and poverty issues in chicago.
what's sad is the issues in chicago can be legislatively fixed.
i dunno how you fix little timmy and his tidepod addictions.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Whats false about it? Are you saying that white conservatives are the ones to blame on CHICAGOS murder rate problem?,,,man you are one close minded dude or or just deflecting
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Society has gone off the deep end. So many people live badly and don't even realize it. Where to start..
(We is used to refer to many of us in general; they may not all apply to any one particular reader.)
- We watch sports obsessively, but don't actually play sports or exercise regularly ourselves.
- We eat chemical-laden, manufactured junk food that is neither nutritious nor filling.
- We default to stimulating and often not rewarding activities such as watching TV, social media, playing video games, surfing the web, etc.
- We send our kids to schools where they spend most of their days learning about the stupidest things, while not teaching them about anything that's important in adult life (to say nothing about the lack of sunshine, exercise, etc.)
- Those who act up in such an unnatural environment get drugged out of their minds, so they don't cause disruption.
- Sleep disorders are rampant due to blue light emitting phones, tablets, computers, etc. and this has been made worse by the recent widespread usage of LED light bulbs. Basically the circadian sleep phase gets pushed back, people can't fall asleep and get woken by a jarring alarm clock every morning and rarely actually get refreshing sleep.
Need I go on? What do you think happens to someone who eats crap, doesn't exercise, spends most of their time on the internet, can't sleep at night, gets loaded up on (what should be) experimental prescription drugs, and on and on it goes? What you get is millions and millions of people who are depressed, unhealthy, miserable, and some of them just snap. Few people take these issues seriously and things are only going to get worse.
Our environment affects all of us to some degree but it affects young people the most because young minds are more plastic/malleable. You end up with people who think eating Tide pods is a good idea.
So, do you think this will ever improve? Or is this signalling the end of The great American Nation?
It could be. I'm sure Rome never thought it would fall. I think Rome lasted about 700 years.
And it basically fell from within allowing the barbarians to take over. The United States could just be mirroring Rome (with lots more fancy gadgets).
There have been several related issues brought up for debate... ..mental health ..medication/treatment of mental ..gun control ..warning signs via social media ..legalized bribery to insure lawmakers always vote to protect the gun lobby ..the lack of security at schools ..and many more
All of those issues are important and need to be addressed... But the most important and most pressing issue has to be protecting those kids when they are at school.
All we have to do is study the "TIME LINE" to see what is needs to be addressed ASAP. It took the shooter "JUST TWO MINUTES" from the time he exited the Uber until he was hiding in a stair well, preparing to start murdering kids.
Obviously, THERE WAS NO SECURITY THIS SCHOOL. No check point, no guard, nothing to stop the killer from carrying out his plan. I'm sure this is not the only Florida school that has a terrible plan to protect the student. That must change ASAP. Every school in our country has to improve their security to a degree where our student will not have to worry about being murdered at school.
There will always be deranged people who fall through the cracks and have a gun and ammo with the idea that he/she is going to commit mass murder. We can waste time trying to deal with all the cracks or we can do what needs to be done to insure our kids will safe at school, starting today!
The level of security at our schools must exceed the maximum potential threat, regardless of who or what the threat is.
Improving school security to insure that everyone on the school grounds is safe.
PROTECTING AMERICA'S STUDENTS MUST BE THE TOP PRIORITY, ASAP!
Society has gone off the deep end. So many people live badly and don't even realize it. Where to start..
(We is used to refer to many of us in general; they may not all apply to any one particular reader.)
- We watch sports obsessively, but don't actually play sports or exercise regularly ourselves.
- We eat chemical-laden, manufactured junk food that is neither nutritious nor filling.
- We default to stimulating and often not rewarding activities such as watching TV, social media, playing video games, surfing the web, etc.
- We send our kids to schools where they spend most of their days learning about the stupidest things, while not teaching them about anything that's important in adult life (to say nothing about the lack of sunshine, exercise, etc.)
- Those who act up in such an unnatural environment get drugged out of their minds, so they don't cause disruption.
- Sleep disorders are rampant due to blue light emitting phones, tablets, computers, etc. and this has been made worse by the recent widespread usage of LED light bulbs. Basically the circadian sleep phase gets pushed back, people can't fall asleep and get woken by a jarring alarm clock every morning and rarely actually get refreshing sleep.
Need I go on? What do you think happens to someone who eats crap, doesn't exercise, spends most of their time on the internet, can't sleep at night, gets loaded up on (what should be) experimental prescription drugs, and on and on it goes? What you get is millions and millions of people who are depressed, unhealthy, miserable, and some of them just snap. Few people take these issues seriously and things are only going to get worse.
Our environment affects all of us to some degree but it affects young people the most because young minds are more plastic/malleable. You end up with people who think eating Tide pods is a good idea.
So, do you think this will ever improve? Or is this signalling the end of The great American Nation?
It could be. I'm sure Rome never thought it would fall. I think Rome lasted about 700 years.
And it basically fell from within allowing the barbarians to take over. The United States could just be mirroring Rome (with lots more fancy gadgets).
I don't know. Things will probably get worse before they get better, but society adapts. Whether those adaptations will be positive and whether they can keep up with the rate of change in society is where things get more complicated.
Prayers to those families who lost love ones. It's impossible to fathom.
Regarding the inevitable politics that follow - the answer to gun violence and senseless killings is obviously more guns and less regulation. I think that's the philosophy once we get passed the "it's too early to talk about" phase. Right?
The more things change the more they stay the same.
My suggestion is we change the name "school" to "uterus". I believe that it may cause Republicans to care a lot more about the children who die inside them.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
