most are very young. I'm not saying they haven't target practiced and can't shoot. But just how much of firearms experts are most of them? I mean how many of them would you say know to tape those mags together?
Mt stepson is in the 7th grade. He got home from school while my wife and I were watching the news coverage of the school shooting. I said to my wife they found web searches on how to build a bomb. My son immediately went into detail on how to build a bomb. I had to get a hold of myself before I went ballistic. I asked him how the hell do you know this? His reply, school.
You'll be surprised what these kids know and where they learn it at. Of course, after I collected myself, I had the discussion with him why I better not hear of a conversation you take part in at school about bomb building, guns... EVER again.
The problem with so many posts on this thread is ignoring the liberty lost.
Sure, we can make schools very safe from gun violence.
Total prison inmates killed by gun shot in U.S. in 2017 - zero.
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swish's tag:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
*LOL* at the howitzer in daytna’s front yard ... in some places u can’t fly an american flag .. so if your going to put the howitzer in your front yard don’t paint a flag on it or your association may not allow it ... ...
Nothing stops a bad person with a gun like a good person with a gun.
What these idiotic gun control snowflakes either do not know, will not admit is that gun control of any kind only takes guns away from the honest law abiding citizens. It will not prevent incidents like this.
If making something illegal would end something then drugs would not be in this country. They are illegal. Heck, some of the whack jobs on this board do those illegal drugs. Illegal immigrants would not be in this country it is outlawed. but, they are here anyway.
Do you know who would be without guns. Citizens who follow the laws of the country. Law breakers but, sell, and take illegal drugs, enter the country against the law, and buy outlawed guns.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
parenting, parenting, parenting. do people honestly expect these kids end up normal when they grow up?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Mac, my stepsons school has 2 sheriff cars out front every morning yet everyday we get text notifications about a bomb threat was issued etc. We can secure our schools (maybe) but can we really secure a Friday night football game, a Saturday afternoon soccer game?
Two sheriff cars out front of your kids school...that is not going to stop a text notification of a bomb threat...surely you realize that.
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We can secure our schools (maybe) but can we really secure a Friday night football game, a Saturday afternoon soccer game?
How secure your Friday night football game is or you Sat. soccer game is up to those in charge.
Did the NFL secure the Super Bowl?..it can be done if the community wants.
Don't lose site of the subject here...making sure our kids are safe and protected while at school.
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If a kid wants to really cause mass murder, they will find a way and an event to carry out their plan.
You are wrong...if the people are concerned enough to take the necessary measures, the threat can be eliminated.
Five days a week, our county courthouse is staffed with an armed sheriff's deputy with a metal detector and they have one entrance in and out of the courthouse. Not once, since implemented after 9/11 has there been a shooter attempt to enter the building.
Armed guards and metal detectors are the "gold standard" for safety and protection in this country and around the world.
Why not at our schools, that today, are nothing more than "soft targets" for anyone wanting to murder kids at school.
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No matter how loud the Left wants to yell about gun control, they';re still WRONG. It's the person holding that gun.
Where have I said a word about gun control?
In Sept. 2004 "that Genie" escaped from the bottle!
IMO, it's way too late to stop assault weapons from those wanting to kill people. Too many assault weapons already in the hands of the public to stop the threat now. Talk about banning assault weapons now would be nothing but a symbolic action. If someone wants one, they will find someone willing to sell them one.
Regardless of the empty threats used by the NRA, this country would never allow the government to take your guns..it would cause another Civil War.
I've owned guns and hunted for over 50 yrs and I've heard the threats..."the government is going to take your guns"... NO ONE HAS EVER TAKEN MY GUNS. I've got more guns now than ever and could buy as many as I want.
Military style weapons are designed and produced to be used to kill the enemy in times of war. The AR-15 has been the weapon of choice by those seeking to commit mass murder in the USA.
The AR-15/M-16 are a highly effective killing machines and they are easy to use. My first experience with the M-16 was during basic training. I was an experienced hunter and knew my way around most hunting style guns. I was amazed that shooting the M-16 with open sites, I could put 100 rounds in human silhouette at 100 yds, with ease.
IMO, one of the reasons the AR-15 is so popular, many just think it's cool to play soldier, using a weapon that looks and performs much like the weapon our military uses.
Regardless, in the hands of someone determined to kill people, it will get the job done.
No one is going to take your guns, but we have to do something to stop the killing in our schools.
Florida school shooting suspect investigated by state after he posted video on social media cutting himself
The agency’s investigation wrapped up on Nov. 12, 2016. The agency concluded that the teenager had not been mistreated by his mother, was receiving adequate care from a mental health counselor and was attending school.
"Henderson (Mental Health clinic) came out and assessed the (victim and) found him to be stable enough not to be hospitalized," the DCF report said.
I'd rather build hospitals to evaluate mental illness than build prisons.
Me too. I'd be proud and happy about my taxes going to this cause.
Unfortunately, more and more of our mental health resources are being diverted to the opiate crisis. They are most definitely related, but the treatment modalities differ to the point that if you take away from one, the other suffers. I have mixed feelings about this, as someone could argue that more lives are being lost to opiate addiction than as a result of a mental health diagnosis. On the other hand it's disheartening to see homeless mentally ill with no place to go because all of the psych beds are occupied.
What are your thoughts regarding identifying mentally ill youths in our schools and perhaps finding another place for them to continue their education while receiving treatment?
Seems that because I have the audacity to raise a topic you obviously don't want to have an intelligent discussion about -
Keep ASSuming ... it looks good on u ... ...
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you have assumed what my motive and goal is (and completely failed) ...
In the very first post u made in this thread u said in the first 3 or 4 sentences .... and i’m Para phrasing as i dont feel like going back ... it went something like this ...
“MORE GUNS, LESS RESTRICTIONS” ...
I thought that was sarcastic and took it that as u wanting more restrictions and fewer guns .. i even ASKED U TO CLARITY IT ... u still haven’t ... yet u take shots at me for something u REFUSE TO EXPLAIN ...
Gee ... what a stunner ... ..
Get over yourself .. u want to have a CONVO ... NO PROBLEM ... how about u at least have the common decency to ANSWER the QUESTIONS i ask ...
Like this one ... HOW MANY DEATHS WOULD BANNING THE SNIPER RIFLE HAVE SAVED? ...
For some reason u don’t want to answer that one either ...
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I think that's microcosm of the issue. Instead of looking at what's happened and trying to talk about it - you and others jump on the "Liberals want to take away our guns" train and simply bunker down and deflect.
Talk about FAILING ... not even close ...
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What happened in Florida and in every other school shooting ever - is a horrific tragedy. You either: 1. don't care.
Ya, i’m A heartless douche ... ..
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2. Or you don't care enough to discuss it with people - some of whom may certainly have a predetermined agenda to reduce access to guns.
I discuss it with PLENTY OF PEOPLE ... just not the ones on here .. maybe its cause ALL CONVOS with Swish, Clem, OCD or pick the lib end in me being a racist, white supremist, moron, piece of crap, pedaphile and/or a homophobe ... that may have soured me on trying to have discussions in here just a SMIDGE ..
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3. You simply accept that there is nothing to be done and society in America simply has to accept all these innocent lives will be slaughtered every single year - and whether it is dozens, or hundreds or eventually thousands of kids that die every year (numbers are going up each year right) ... it doesn't matter.
There’s that heartless pr**k thing again ... .
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4. Or maybe you believe you are so smart - and so all knowing -
*L* ... i always want to be the DUMBEST person in a room ... thats how u learn .. i have surrounded myself with folks that are SMARTER THAN ME by design not chance ... i learn as much as i can everyday .. I LOVE LEARNING ...
U want to have a serious discussion about this .. since I’ve never tried to have a discussion with U, I’ll give it a shot if u would like ...
Go ahead and respond in kind to the above stuff ... after that post ...
START THE DISCUSSION in a seperate post and i’ll only respond to that one ... i will play fair ... if u want to chat, i’ll Chat ...
What are your thoughts regarding identifying mentally ill youths in our schools and perhaps finding another place for them to continue their education while receiving treatment?
I know you didn't ask me, but I read today the state was called to investigate this guy back in 2016. (Florida) They did, and decided the guy was 'stable', despite the cutting.
And, we all know the FBI received a warning, yet never followed up on it.
So, at a minimum, twice were authorities notified of violent behavior. One department found 'nothing', and another, the FBI, apparently determined they couldn't be bothered with it?
So, people were doing the right thing. Nothing came of it though.
I'd rather build hospitals to evaluate mental illness than build prisons.
Me too. I'd be proud and happy about my taxes going to this cause.
Unfortunately, more and more of our mental health resources are being diverted to the opiate crisis. They are most definitely related, but the treatment modalities differ to the point that if you take away from one, the other suffers. I have mixed feelings about this, as someone could argue that more lives are being lost to opiate addiction than as a result of a mental health diagnosis. On the other hand it's disheartening to see homeless mentally ill with no place to go because all of the psych beds are occupied.
What are your thoughts regarding identifying mentally ill youths in our schools and perhaps finding another place for them to continue their education while receiving treatment?
Only if they exhibit repeated threatening or antisocial behaviors of some sort. Believe it or not, symptoms of most mental illnesses don't present until the late teens/early adulthood...post school years. You can't diagnose them until they reach that age. It's a dangerous path to quickly slap a label or diagnosis on someone, as this can affect them the rest of their lives. There are strict criteria that have to be met over a period of time to give someone a mental health diagnosis. However, if they've made overt threats, that should be addressed swiftly and they should be removed. In this last shooting, people saw threatening behavior and reported it, yet the FBI ignored it.
Once someone has been diagnosed with certain mental disorders or committed violent crime, there are laws in place to prevent them from possessing firearms. These need to be enforced. Additional legislation will do nothing if they can't enforce what's already in the books.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
Hmmm...we used to tape 2 mags together in the military. You can flip a mag in no time. So smaller mags are NOT the answer.
Sorry, but you can only tape clips together on rifles with clips. Exactly like the 30 round clips I spoke of. You can't do that with a semi-automatic pistol because each clip has to slide all the way into the handle.
But thanks for helping me prove my point.
Not so fast....glock pistols have magazines you can tape together if you wanted to....
How are you going to slide them up into the handle when they're taped together?
The mag is about 18" long. The mag well is about 7" on a full size 17 and even shorter on a 26.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
also, its funny how people chalk everything up to "mental health" when it comes to these shootings.
as if we're the only country in the world who has citizens with mental health problems. and yet somehow, we're the only developed country in the world with this epidemic with regards to mass shootings, specifically in schools.
the shootings keep happening, and the "dont take my guns" crowd keep running out of excuses.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I'd rather build hospitals to evaluate mental illness than build prisons.
Me too. I'd be proud and happy about my taxes going to this cause.
Unfortunately, more and more of our mental health resources are being diverted to the opiate crisis. They are most definitely related, but the treatment modalities differ to the point that if you take away from one, the other suffers. I have mixed feelings about this, as someone could argue that more lives are being lost to opiate addiction than as a result of a mental health diagnosis. On the other hand it's disheartening to see homeless mentally ill with no place to go because all of the psych beds are occupied.
It sounds as if it's a bit like: "Do I pay my gas bill or my electric bill this month?"
How much of this current mental health crisis can be traced back to the Reagan admin's repeal of the Mental Health Systems Act of 1980?
Hmmm...we used to tape 2 mags together in the military. You can flip a mag in no time. So smaller mags are NOT the answer.
Sorry, but you can only tape clips together on rifles with clips. Exactly like the 30 round clips I spoke of. You can't do that with a semi-automatic pistol because each clip has to slide all the way into the handle.
Glock makes a 30 round magazine for 9mm rounds. It sticks down well below the butt of the grip. I own a few of them.
also, its funny how people chalk everything up to "mental health" when it comes to these shootings.
No, it's not funny at all.
What's sad is that guys like you think gun control will solve our problems.
I will tell you right now. You guys are clueless.
I don't even care about freaking guns. Make stricter gun laws. I'm good w/that. But, that isn't going to stop the issues w/our youths.
I have to get out of this stupid ass thread because you guys never are interested in learning or actual conversation. It's all about pushing your one-sided political and social issues.
I'd rather build hospitals to evaluate mental illness than build prisons.
Me too. I'd be proud and happy about my taxes going to this cause.
Unfortunately, more and more of our mental health resources are being diverted to the opiate crisis. They are most definitely related, but the treatment modalities differ to the point that if you take away from one, the other suffers. I have mixed feelings about this, as someone could argue that more lives are being lost to opiate addiction than as a result of a mental health diagnosis. On the other hand it's disheartening to see homeless mentally ill with no place to go because all of the psych beds are occupied.
It sounds as if it's a bit like: "Do I pay my gas bill or my electric bill this month?"
How much of this current mental health crisis can be traced back to the Reagan admin's repeal of the Mental Health Systems Act of 1980?
When I got into the field in the mid 80's, there was still a lot of gubment money being thrown at the mental health system to de-institutionalize and incorporate the patients into the community. Community mental health agencies and group homes took the place of the large state hospitals, which was the goal of that Mental Health Systems Act. I'm not sure about other communities, but our area actually seemed to have their act together. Our state hospital one time housed over 2000 patients, now their capacity is 60 I believe. I do believe those in power were a bit short sighted, as they underestimated the number of people who respond well to the institutional setting, and even wanted to be there. They suddenly had nowhere to turn. I'm sure if you could find the data, you'd see that homeless numbers climbed during that time period. Our community agencies, (Harbor, Unison, Zepf, etc.) manage the population about as well as can be expected. Like I said, they are now being burdened with the opiate epidemic. About 10 years ago, our local mental health board combined substance abuse and mental health services.
And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul. - John Muir
The 2nd amendment is now an actual culture. Gun culture is an absolute lifestyle here in America.
We’re not the only country with mental health problems, yet one one of the very few that has to deal with mass shootings at this magnitude.
How come mass shootings don’t happen in most developed countries like ours, even though they also have citizens with mental health issues?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Drugs are illegal = Still rampant in the US. Prostitution is illegal still a problem in the US. Human Trafficking is illegal but still happens in the US. Illegal immigration is against the law but is an epidemic in the US.
So will tougher gun laws stop gun violence = No. Not a chance. All it will do is take the ability of people who obey laws from obtaining guns. Thus crime will go up because the criminals will still have and use theirs.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
So will tougher gun laws stop gun violence = No. Not a chance. All it will do is take the ability of people who obey laws from obtaining guns. Thus crime will go up because the criminals will still have and use theirs.
In an effort to keep a respecful conversation going, not directed at you,
If America is the superpower, we lack globally in many categories. Environmental responsibility, education, debt, gun violence.
If we fear the red coat, if we have to arm ourselves, in the most free country in the world, something is wrong. Countless Americans gave their life for freedom. This freedom includes exclusion from tyrannical governments. Just like CO2 and climate, there is a corellation with guns and death.
Call me naive, but I refuse to believe we cannot progress towards a eutopian world. I like to believe Americans gave their life for that very pursuit.
Drugs are illegal = Still rampant in the US. Prostitution is illegal still a problem in the US. Human Trafficking is illegal but still happens in the US. Illegal immigration is against the law but is an epidemic in the US.
So will tougher gun laws stop gun violence = No. Not a chance. All it will do is take the ability of people who obey laws from obtaining guns. Thus crime will go up because the criminals will still have and use theirs.
Day of the Dawg...where have I posted anything about gun control or gun laws?
We live in a rural area where we might get a sheriff's car drive by, maybe once or twice a week. Once, a few years ago, I had a security system salesman call, trying to sell me a security system based on the fact I lived in country where it would take time for authorities to respond to any emergency situation.
Before he got too far along in his sales pitch, I told him I already have a security system. He asked me what security system I had...I told him, the 12 gauge.
...there was a pause, then the salesman said, "I see". I don't believe that salesman ever called us again.
I've heard the scare tactics of the NRA for 50 years, "the government is going to take your guns away"..and we will hear that threat again..because it still works on those who are easily swayed by fear.
There is no way the government is going to take your guns..it would create shooting conflicts in every state.
So will tougher gun laws stop gun violence = No. Not a chance. All it will do is take the ability of people who obey laws from obtaining guns. Thus crime will go up because the criminals will still have and use theirs.
In an effort to keep a respecful conversation going, not directed at you,
If America is the superpower, we lack globally in many categories. Environmental responsibility, education, debt, gun violence.
If we fear the red coat, if we have to arm ourselves, in the most free country in the world, something is wrong. Countless Americans gave their life for freedom. This freedom includes exclusion from tyrannical governments. Just like CO2 and climate, there is a corellation with guns and death.
Call me naive, but I refuse to believe we cannot progress towards a eutopian world. I like to believe Americans gave their life for that very pursuit.
The Obama administration was a tyrannical government! Chicago is the Utopia society you want!
Last edited by Day of the Dawg; 02/18/1808:20 AM.
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples' money." Margarat Thatcher
I think this might be the shooting that changes politics...because "the people" are speaking out now instead of pausing to pray for the victims.
People like one of the shooter's intended targets who survived and is now speaking out..below
She is speaking out yeah. But, she is wrong. I do not care what she has to say. Gun control is a meth. It is a lie.
I agree. You gun nuts act like it’s meth.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I'd rather build hospitals to evaluate mental illness than build prisons.
Me too. I'd be proud and happy about my taxes going to this cause.
Unfortunately, more and more of our mental health resources are being diverted to the opiate crisis. They are most definitely related, but the treatment modalities differ to the point that if you take away from one, the other suffers. I have mixed feelings about this, as someone could argue that more lives are being lost to opiate addiction than as a result of a mental health diagnosis. On the other hand it's disheartening to see homeless mentally ill with no place to go because all of the psych beds are occupied.
What are your thoughts regarding identifying mentally ill youths in our schools and perhaps finding another place for them to continue their education while receiving treatment?
Only if they exhibit repeated threatening or antisocial behaviors of some sort. Believe it or not, symptoms of most mental illnesses don't present until the late teens/early adulthood...post school years. You can't diagnose them until they reach that age. It's a dangerous path to quickly slap a label or diagnosis on someone, as this can affect them the rest of their lives. There are strict criteria that have to be met over a period of time to give someone a mental health diagnosis. However, if they've made overt threats, that should be addressed swiftly and they should be removed. In this last shooting, people saw threatening behavior and reported it, yet the FBI ignored it.
Once someone has been diagnosed with certain mental disorders or committed violent crime, there are laws in place to prevent them from possessing firearms. These need to be enforced. Additional legislation will do nothing if they can't enforce what's already in the books.
I don't know if this would have made a difference or not, but:
Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses
'If you can't buy a handgun or a bottle of beer, you shouldn't be able to buy an AR-15:' Senator Dianne Feinstein announces plans for new law that will raise the federal age limit to buy a long-rifle from 18 to 21
This is a bit misleading. Obama said if your financial affairs are in the hands of another person you shouldn't be allowed to purchase a gun. That is the premise on which Trump changed it because a court deemed it unconstitutional.
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