I guess now, the only thing that will stop a bad 7th reader with a gun is a good 7th grader with a gun.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
And then we wonder why these things happen over and over and over again.
I agree that having access to a large amount of weapons probably acerbates the problem, but AR-15s have been around for decades. Thinking that simply banning them or any other form of gun from kids is going to curb all school gun violence is naive at best. It definitely will help to an extent, but kids that are hell bent on doing something like this will just move to the next best item at their disposal.
I know many, many people that own between 10 and 100 guns. I know many many people that own no guns.
If a person owns 20 guns, and his neighbor owns 0 guns, a stat, while legit, would say the average ownership of guns is 10.
What percentage of guns are used in crimes? Or, more specifically since all anyone cares about is school shootings: What percent of guns are used in school shootings?
And then compare that to what percentage of guns owned are NOT used in school shootings, or in crimes.
While I agree with caution to looking at individual statistics, outright ignoring them is not a good idea either. We need to evaluate and analyze them to view trends. If you evaluate gun ownership rates per capita and firearm deaths per capita in the US and the western world you will see an interesting correlation: the death rate and ownership rates are rather linear. US has 10 deaths per 100k and 101 guns per 100 inhabitants. France is 3 deaths and 30 guns. Same with Switzerland , Austria , Canada, on down. The correlation is strong: the more guns per capita, the more firearm deaths per capita. If you disagree with my finding that's A-OK, I'd just like to know your empirical evidence.
I know many, many people that own between 10 and 100 guns. I know many many people that own no guns.
If a person owns 20 guns, and his neighbor owns 0 guns, a stat, while legit, would say the average ownership of guns is 10.
What percentage of guns are used in crimes? Or, more specifically since all anyone cares about is school shootings: What percent of guns are used in school shootings?
And then compare that to what percentage of guns owned are NOT used in school shootings, or in crimes.
Eh, every time I go to the range there are people with AR-15. All they are doing is having fun shooting targets. They aren't out to mass murder anyone, any more than any other person there with a semi automatic pistol or revolver.
Y'all act like anyone with these guns is out to blow your head off, and that's simply not the case. There's this thing called.....grab your butts now.............. enthusiasts.
Short of outright banning all personal guns with house by house search and seizure, this school shooting / mass killing spree genie is out of the bottle and I don't see it being put back in. The only real hope in my opinion is education, threat assessment mental testing, school safety procedures, and a move toward old fashion parenting.
AND anyone even jokingly saying something about killing anyone should enjoy a nice 72 hour psych evaluation hold. Anyone.
Those among us who think their guns are more important than these dead kids or all the other victims from past shootings and decide what's best for their interest in guns is to attack the victims... shame. You are the sort of person that should lose your guns imho.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Maybe but people like OCD want it to go beyond socialism and into totalitarianism.
I never said that. I just said there is no fix for this issue that involves taking guns away unless they all go. I don't want that.
Then I said "The only real hope in my opinion is education, threat assessment mental testing, school safety procedures, and a move toward old fashion parenting.".
Then I berated the Farce right wing fringe dwellers for blaming victims, creating crisis actor rumors and what not. SHAME ON THEM ALL.
So you can come back down off yer high horse missy.
Eh, every time I go to the range there are people with AR-15. All they are doing is having fun shooting targets. They aren't out to mass murder anyone, any more than any other person there with a semi automatic pistol or revolver.
Y'all act like anyone with these guns is out to blow your head off, and that's simply not the case. There's this thing called.....grab your butts now.............. enthusiasts.
So we should not do anything to stop mass murder because having fun is more important?
Pretzel Logic
After listening to the discussion today I am pretty upset. People have buried theirs children, and now will face removing their belongings from their room. That would not be anything that I would call fun.
Last edited by ChargerDawg; 02/22/1812:52 AM.
Welcome back, Joe, we missed you!…. That did not age well.
Gun control wont do anything except make people switch to even more horrifying methods and leave you with even fewer people to stop it.
I estimate that 40-50 dollars of walmart products could easily yield 100 plus dead at any concert without the use of a gun. And don't going thinking I would do any of this because I never would. It's just anyone with a high school level of science knowledge can easily cause mass destruction in a crowded area. There is nothing you can do to stop it except to fix the problems that give birth to these psycos.
Personally I think you should have to pass a psych eval if you have a gun permit every 5 years or so. I mean if your going to own a deadly weapon fine but we should be able to determine if your physically and mentally safe to use it for the owners and the society's safety. I have no problems with mandatory background checks too. It is a solemn thing to me to own a gun and I don't think waiting a few weeks to finalize is going to hurt anyone.
I also think a yearly mental health check up should be mandatory for students in school too and if problems are found then free treatment should be provided.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
Your argument falls apart on two fronts, time and skill.
There is a reason why semi-automatic rifles with large magazines are used.
They are efficient at their job. You don’t need much upstairs to figure that one out.
Your exam approach violates the 2nd amendment and is analogous to a poll tax for voting.
I'd prove my argument is valid but I worry about posting details of such things and having the wrong person read it and then use it. Just take my word for it that Guns are actually a poor means of mass murder. If you really just can't believe me then send me a PM because I can't post stuff like that in public and feel comfortable about it.
All gun control violates our right to bear arms so if we are going to have them then lets at least do it effectively.
Last edited by Razorthorns; 02/22/1802:28 AM.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
I am watching TV, and see ads for these mobile alert devices, where a person can summon help with the touch of a button. Couldn't a device be set up with a single location, (the school) and every teacher would have one on their write, or around their neck. At the 1st sign of trouble, a teacher could hit the button, and the police would know that it was a dangerous situation. It would be quicker and easier then having to get out the cell phone, and dial 911, and with the device showing the school location, the police could (perhaps) shave some time of their response.
Just an idea that might help .... not a cure, but maybe an assistance for those in danger.
As far as these people who commit these horrific acts, I think that faith, and community are important deterrents. It seems that most of the people who commit these mass killings are disaffected outsiders, who feels that they have no place in the world. Until we help with that aspect of things, and recognize the warning signs, these tragic attacks will continue. We need a change in our culture, where we are more personally connected, instead of being less connected, despite our technology connected world.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
Didn’t we as society create that problem due to drugging our kids to behave instead of disclipining them to behave?
We will never agree more.
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I remember my mom arguing with one of my teachers in middle school about putting on Ritalin. It seems like that’s the auto recommendation from local school districts.
Parents don't want to parent, and teachers don't want to teach. Now I will say, to the teachers defense, that parents want them to parent - instead of teach. That's not their job, its to teach.
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We always talk about how kids are unable to cope with reality, yet nobody ever looks in the mirror as to why that’s a problem to begin with. Cause we didn’t teach them how to move in life. We just drugged them up and put them into a bubble, just trying to shield them from the horrors of society.
As I said, we agree on this, but we might disagree as to the reason. We have as a society destroyed the family unit for years. We have encouraged nanny's and daycares to raise out kids while we pushed parents out the door an encouraged to work instead of having one stay home and raise their kids themselves (and I am not saying this is a womens job, before anyone wants to put words in my mouth. I was a stay at home dad for the first 6 months of my son's life - and it was the hardest dang job I ever had). But no one can tell me there is a benefit to both parents having to work, opposed to one staying home and raising their child.
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I also don’t buy the “video games and movies” rhetoric.
We agree again. Its a cop out, and an excuse for parents and society to put the blame on something other then themselves.
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In Germany, they show boobs on TV, none of the music is censored on he radios the cuss on tv, and have really weird violent psychopath movies.
They are also allowed to drink at a early age, come countries at the age of 5 its not unheard of to have a glass of wine with dinner. And they don't have the DUI and drunk driving incidents that we do hear either. This tells me its not the booze, its not the video game, its not the TV, ITS NOT THE GUN, its the people and parents. You just made my entire argument about gun control.
First, that's an interesting perspective from a black man who grew up in the south in the 50s and 60s.... I wonder if he felt his life was "valued" then?
And since you like statistics.. 99.99% of people still do value human life (probably the same % or higher than what did when he was a kid), that's why they aren't shooting other people and the overall rate of homicide has gone down...
The .01% that reaches the point where they don't value human life, no longer lives in seclusion or commits small random crimes or even just commits suicide, they get an automatic or semi-automatic weapon (or 2 or 3) and go to a public place like a school filled with innocent kids and kill as many people as they can as fast as they can...
See, human nature hasn't changed, heck human nature hasn't changed in 5000 years... we are the same flawed people today that we have been since Cain killed Abel... the dynamic that has changed is that weeeee small percentage of people who are willing to kill indiscriminately, in large quantities, and are fully prepared to die themselves at the end...
I guess now, the only thing that will stop a bad 7th reader with a gun is a good 7th grader with a gun.
swish...I wonder how many of our DT board member realize just how close Ohio was to being THE NEXT ONE!
...THE NEXT SCHOOL SHOOTING.
Just one more example of THE REALITY our students face everyday they attend school.
How did this student manage to bring a "rifle" into the school building with out being detected? ...just a guess, I doubt that Jackson Middle School, near Massillon has anyone checking book bags.
Thank goodness the kid shot himself instead of maybe 17 other students.
The highest priority has to be upgrading our students security to stop any potential shooter from getting into the school building. ...again, our students deserve the same level of security that has been working for our elected officials for over a decade.
Once that is done, then all the other issues brought up can be debated to as long as people want.
...but, not one student should be killed by a shooter before our schools provide armed security guards and metal detectors.
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School student Colton Haab said he was approached by CNN to ask a question at Wednesday night's town hall but decided not to after the network gave him a "scripted question," quashing one he wrote himself. Haab, a member of the Junior ROTC shielded students while the school was under attack from the shooter, said he was going to ask about using veterans as armed security guards. (CNN response below.)
There's more in there, including a denial from CNN.
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School student Colton Haab said he was approached by CNN to ask a question at Wednesday night's town hall but decided not to after the network gave him a "scripted question," quashing one he wrote himself. Haab, a member of the Junior ROTC shielded students while the school was under attack from the shooter, said he was going to ask about using veterans as armed security guards. (CNN response below.)
There's more in there, including a denial from CNN.
Poor naive kid still thinks the media cares about what kids think because they have been praising those kids who have ranted on about blaming Trump and wanting gun control... they don't care unless you preach their narrative.... he'll learn.
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School student Colton Haab said he was approached by CNN to ask a question at Wednesday night's town hall but decided not to after the network gave him a "scripted question," quashing one he wrote himself. Haab, a member of the Junior ROTC shielded students while the school was under attack from the shooter, said he was going to ask about using veterans as armed security guards. (CNN response below.)
There's more in there, including a denial from CNN.
Poor naive kid still thinks the media cares about what kids think because they have been praising those kids who have ranted on about blaming Trump and wanting gun control... they don't care unless you preach their narrative.... he'll learn.
This is 100% correct.
But it's nice that these kids aren't playing by the rules.
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School student Colton Haab said he was approached by CNN to ask a question at Wednesday night's town hall but decided not to after the network gave him a "scripted question," quashing one he wrote himself. Haab, a member of the Junior ROTC shielded students while the school was under attack from the shooter, said he was going to ask about using veterans as armed security guards. (CNN response below.)
There's more in there, including a denial from CNN.
Poor naive kid still thinks the media cares about what kids think because they have been praising those kids who have ranted on about blaming Trump and wanting gun control... they don't care unless you preach their narrative.... he'll learn.
Yep. He'll learn that it's all a game. The pro-gun victims met with the President to talk about how teachers should have guns, while the anti-gun victims met with CNN to talk about "comprehensive reform".
The pro-gun victims met with the President to talk about how teachers should have guns,
There was a good mix of all sides at the WH talk. I watched to whole thing and was rather impressed with everyone including Trump. Hopefully it sunk in and something is finally done to protect our schools, the children, and the teachers in them.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
The pro-gun victims met with the President to talk about how teachers should have guns,
There was a good mix of all sides at the WH talk. I watched to whole thing and was rather impressed with everyone including Trump. Hopefully it sunk in and something is finally done to protect our schools, the children, and the teachers in them.
As a dyed in the wool NeverTrump guy, I have to say, that was handled fairly well. Still don't agree with arming teachers. But yeah, Trump did well. Giving credit where it's due.
Here's the problem, Trump says a lot of things "in the moment" then head fakes folks that believed.
This crowd will not forget..
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
But should the People of America, once become capable of that deep <, Start deletion,[. . .], End,> simulation towards one another and towards foreign nations, which assumes the Language of Justice and moderation while it is practicing Iniquity and Extravagance; and displays in the most captivating manner the charming Pictures of Candour frankness & sincerity while it is rioting in rapine and Insolence: this Country will be the most miserable Habitation in the World. Because We have no Government armed with Power capable of contending with human Passions unbridled by <, Start deletion,[. . .], End,> morality and Religion. Avarice, Ambition <, Start deletion,and, End,> Revenge or Galantry, would break the strongest Cords of our Constitution as a Whale goes through a Net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other
As Society turns more and more away from The Lord, government has to tighten the noose more and more...most likely your grand kids will be under the yoke of tyranny, and we have no one to blame but ourselves...Most have no idea what living hell they are sentencing their descendants to...its just awful...all because they think taking away peoples rights is a way to protect something thats rooted in fear, a fear something may or may not happen...what a sad way to live...i'll never let my kids grow up that way, they will live their life like they otherwise would and what will be will be. thats just how things are.
There are no answers, only life.
its doubtful many of you ever figure this out though...its a hard lesson to learn...
But should the People of America, once become capable of that deep <, Start deletion,[. . .], End,> simulation towards one another and towards foreign nations, which assumes the Language of Justice and moderation while it is practicing Iniquity and Extravagance; and displays in the most captivating manner the charming Pictures of Candour frankness & sincerity while it is rioting in rapine and Insolence: this Country will be the most miserable Habitation in the World. Because We have no Government armed with Power capable of contending with human Passions unbridled by <, Start deletion,[. . .], End,> morality and Religion. Avarice, Ambition <, Start deletion,and, End,> Revenge or Galantry, would break the strongest Cords of our Constitution as a Whale goes through a Net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other
As Society turns more and more away from The Lord, government has to tighten the noose more and more...most likely your grand kids will be under the yoke of tyranny, and we have no one to blame but ourselves...Most have no idea what living hell they are sentencing their descendants to...its just awful...all because they think taking away peoples rights is a way to protect something thats rooted in fear, a fear something may or may not happen...what a sad way to live...i'll never let my kids grow up that way, they will live their life like they otherwise would and what will be will be. thats just how things are.
There are no answers, only life.
its doubtful many of you ever figure this out though...its a hard lesson to learn...
John Adams literally violated the first amendment his 2nd year into his Presidency as did most of the founding fathers who passed the Sedition act. Who cares what dead slave owners thought about a Constitution that they so openly violated.
Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School student Colton Haab said he was approached by CNN to ask a question at Wednesday night's town hall but decided not to after the network gave him a "scripted question," quashing one he wrote himself. Haab, a member of the Junior ROTC shielded students while the school was under attack from the shooter, said he was going to ask about using veterans as armed security guards. (CNN response below.)
There's more in there, including a denial from CNN.
hmmm so CNN is calling the victim of a shooting a liar?
If I recall CNN has already been shown to give answers to questions ahead of time, why wouldn't they give questions to people ahead to ask?
Also, there was not ONE pro gun person at that "town hall" outside of Rubio and Dana. Give me a break, they only let in who they wanted.
We will not all agree on the solution, but we all agree there is a problem. However shutting out the other side completely is not going to do anything but your opinion on the issue.
The left has been calling on gun control for years now, before the incident and after.
Leave it to you to help spread a false narrative.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Which ignorance are you referring? Both sides seem to be equally ignorant.
Both sides. And sides is the key word. Instead of trying to seek real solutions by analyzing the problem and understanding that it is multi-faceted, the conversations are dominated by both sides labeling, pointing fingers, being closed-minded, unable to partake in meaningful conversation, and absolutely ignoring the etiology of the problem
This is a very personal issue for me. I was a teacher for years and will always be one at heart. I experienced first-hand the issues that our children face and it angers and saddens me that people are ignoring the real problems our youths face and instead focus on old and tired political platforms.
Kids are dying. Both by murder and by suicide. Kids are feeling isolated. Kids are lonely and feel out of touch w/a fast-paced world. Yet, their problems are being ignored so dumb asses can say we have to throw all the guns in the ocean or arm every citizen in the world. Both "sides" are whacked!!!!
