DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus South Africa's New President Wants to Redistribute Land from White Farmers

If the family was of Dutch origin then they actively participated in the local slave trade and stealing of land. However most of the Dutch left when the Brits took over. The British would typically outlaw the language of the previous country when taking over a colony. Before the British took over, SA's colony was pretty much a small spot on a global trade route. Very important, but a very small colony. After the British took over they began migrating inland into the country and forcing out the Zulu people. They would later annex the region, fight a few wars and create a state that would report to them. Throughout all of this apartheid was in full effect until 94. There is no clean history.

I can only speak for me.


I wasn't thinking so much a person as a panel or a committee, maybe selected and overseen by the UN..


Sorry if that's what you took from my posts because that isn't at all what I was trying to say..

Had apartheid never happened, the local Africans would have grown their farms over the centuries from small family sustaining farms to larger community farms to larger commercial farms.. they would have centuries and generations of history to know how to manage large commercial farms... there is no way to know exactly how it would have turned out but there isn't any reason to doubt it would be similar to what it is today, just different ownership...

Whether the farms were white owned or native African owned, there would still likely be 28.8 million sheep in South Africa today.. apartheid didn't cause that... I was just commenting on how the SCALE of farming has changed.. ownership is pretty much irrelevant to that..

gotcha.

Oh farming has certainly changed and actually I agree with you that unless provisions are put in place to help people to transition into running the business end of those farms it could easily turn into a disaster.

I'll use my profession as a reference. In residential work I was great at selling and running the jobs. In commercial I was great at running crews, keeping to the schedule and maintaining the quality of the work.

However, I would have needed a lot of help and training in regards to the paperwork and financial end of running a commercial business. So to that extent we completely agree.

However for a poster to say that blacks weren't farming in Africa is something all together different than that. Maybe he simply didn't explain what he meant well enough. I'm not sure.

AYBM ...

Should this be purple?

Sure they farmed but they were terrible at it. They came in tried to teach them but they were too lazy or didn't care about using the techniques they were taught and in 5 years or so they were begging them to come back to the farms they forced them from because most of them were trashed and the people were starving. It's a big challenge to go into war torn areas and tell people they need to plan for years ahead of time when they grew up thinking of how to survive one day at a time.

What is needed is an apprentice program where they train them and then mentor them and watch over them for a 5-10 years. But when you steal the farmers land away I am just positive he wants to teach the next guy how to do it. I'd say well fine burn this sucker down and you can build your own farm from your money and not mine and you can figure it out on your own because I'm outta here.

This is flat out wrong and nothing more than racist thievery.

Wow. Reading, it's fundamental.

Thats what I was thinking, also they may take away the land from the farmers and give it away, but what about all the equipment, buildings, inventory, etc. " Oh youre going to take my land and give it away, well I am taking my $300,000 combine with me "

They don't say one way or another but these kind of horrendous acts tend to take it all and not just the land. It's not like they value property rights when they do things like this. I mean if your going to steal from your people why stop at just the land ...

Maybe I am thinking in a fair and just way, and really cant fathom a different way to possibly justify a government just taking someones property , for no good reason. But it seems to me that the government can claim the land as their land, but how can they claim things that are personal property of the people who purchased them , such as vehicles or equipment? So does this mean the people given the farm land also get the house, furnishing, clothes etc that are inside it ?

This article sounds like the Cleveland Browns way of thinking from 2002- on.

" We can see it didn't work, but we're gonna try it anyway."

Everything but keeping the team together and getting good coaching?
Ya everything but that.

scientists researching the periods before written historical records were made have established that the territory of what is now referred to generically as South Africa was one of the important centers of human evolution. It was inhabited by Australopithecines since at least 2.5 million years ago. Modern human settlement occurred around 125,000 years ago in the Middle Stone Age, as shown by archaeological discoveries at Klasies River Caves.[1] The first human habitation is associated with a DNA group originating in a northwestern area of southern Africa and still prevalent in the indigenous Khoisan (Khoi and San). Southern Africa was reached later by the migration of the ethnically different, dark-skinned, Bantu-speaking or African people originating in the northwestern region of southern Africa during the early centuries AD.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_South_Africa

So apparently this measure is a done deal . Be interesting to see how it unfolds .

Apparently, you are right Razor, I read this from an article about Zimbabwe:

"Nyatsuro, a privileged, well-educated doctor from among Zimbabwe's elite, kicked the Rankins off their land in the most controversial 'land grab' of blacks against white farmers' land since President Mugabe began seizing properties, including farm equipment and even personal possessions."

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4106048...ield-weeds.html

Anybody trying to take their combine ain't leaving there alive. This is not done politely or with any legal niceties.

Afrikaans is essentially Dutch.

This will not go well for anyone.
It's about to get very ugly in that country.

I would not be surprised if violence doesn't erupt because of it. I mean if you take everything I own and give it to someone else then what reason is good enough for me not to take you out. When it's the law doing it to you then why should you respect the law? I don't see how they expect all these people to just sit there and take this kind of thievery. I know at the very least I'd burn my own farm down to the ground before they stole it from me just because of my skin color. I don't know if the president of any country would be safe if that ever happened.

This is what the French did after they were expelled from a colony. Now French has 14 African countries paying them protection fees as well as having the first right to natural resources found in the land.

Few points of interest, not trying to derail the conversation but,

1 South Africa is starving for water
2 the oglolalla aquifer will be at 33% capacity by 2050
3 water will soon become the next oil

As you were

I'm actually glad that I'm getting old, and that I abused myself when I was young.

I used to think that I drank too much. Nowadays, I'm of the opinion that I've always drank exactly the right amount for the times in which I've lived.

I actually stopped drinking some years ago. Although I did break that tradition to have a couple of beers with GM when he visited a few years back.

Sometimes it makes me wonder why I stopped.

I stopped drinking back when I was 17 =)

I read somewhere that the next world war would be fought over clean water..

That's my personal prediction.

How would that work? Let's say the u.s. had clean water, and China didn't. How would china get our water back to china?

Or, say, the u.s. didn't have clean water. Australia did. How would there water help us? As in, how would we get it here?

I guess I'm missing something?

Population centers on planet earth, let's say a couple million people, have noticed a radical shift in their weather patterns. Poplulation is growing in areas that have shown a climatological (35 years) reduction in precipitation.

This is not political ideology. The climate reports of Planet Earth are running on the high end of projections (2007,2010 IPCC).

You can't be a superpower if you can't confront, at the very least react to your world.

Saint above:



I don't know. Well, you need fresh water.

But, the next world war there will be nuclear bombs.

The losing side is sure to have them and is sure to use them at least in desperation.

For instance, Germany would have surely nuked the Normandy invasion.

I don't think you can have large scale invasions anymore.

Maybe a technology will arise that makes nuclear weapons inoperable.

It will be the mountain men vs the valley girls. The mountain men will dam up the snow melt. This will bring out the torches and pitchforks.

There is plenty of water to be had through desalination plants. I wouldn't get that worked up over it.

You are missing something.

The areas of the world that don't have clean water are the poorest areas. Considering that 50% of the world live on or less than $2 a day that is a very large population of people (3.5 billion). Add to it drought and instability of water and food and you will see a mass migration of people to other countries. We are already currently seeing the largest migration of people since WW2 and it is tearing the EU apart and putting great pressure on other Middle Eastern countries as the infrastructure cannot handle the masses that are arriving on their borders. However, if an even larger migration happens due to water/food etc. it will destabilize much of the planet and wars will be fought.

The problem there is cost and quantity. Desalination is not cheap and it is a slow process.

Also, I would strongly suggest to anyone living in an area where you water is sketchy, smells bad, taste bad, etc. ; install a household reverse osmosis system for your drinking water at a minimum.

Or just visit your local pet fish store to buy your water.

Desal is expensive but not slow . Middle East countries like Saudi Arabia have incredible plants capable of millions of gallons per day . It's energy intensive to push that much water through the membranes but certainly doable .

It ain't cheap to build, either.

I'm sure we'll find a way to get something like that built rather than be thirsty.

It would go up faster than the Empire State building during the depression.

It's not that expensive to boil water. In an area where it's mostly sunny you could boil water all day long using solar power through a fresnel lense.

the raw water thread getting hot!

Critics have compared the move to the disastrous redistribution of land in neighbouring Zimbabwe, which was often accompanied by violence and left farms neglected.

In South Africa, corruption and lack of training for farmers remain obstacles to land redistribution.

The government’s land reform policy has been criticised over the years as many farms transferred to emerging black farmers lay fallow and unproductive.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/...s-a8234461.html