DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2018 NFL Season 2018 NFL Draft Barkley or Fitzpatrick

Peppers wasn't playing out of position, because he never had a position, and if he had it would be linebacker not safety..

He is an undersized linebacker not an over sized safety, and has very little space on an NFL team.

He isn't even good in special teams... and worst is that he didn't learn or showed improvements.

I don't particularly like Kindred (because of the hit mentality first) but he showed improvements in his mentality and is now a very solid safety.

So IMHO, either you believe Peppers is a bust and draft Fitzpatrick or then draft other positions,like a corner... or Saquan....

Having to explain that tells us all we need to know.

Don't feed the Troll, man.

Now, I'm taking offense on that, because I was making a very sensible point,namely that Kindred is a solid SS, so why would you replace him by Peppers?

Its a shame that some people don't even make an effort to discuss anymore and use their brains... its all about all my prejudices against your prejudices..

Now I indeed think Peppers sucks, and all that we have seen, all his stats proves that... so no trolling here... I could say that he has athletic potential, and that's what I thought on the start of the season.

But like Kizer, Peppers didn't evolve, but please prove me wrong, or at least argue... Peppers has worst grading on PFF than Kizer...

Saying Peppers is playing out of position is saying nothing because he was a linebacker and played Nickle, he never played SS..

So playing SS would also be playing Peppers out of position...

I also struggle to understand why would a college coach play their start defender out of position...Edge rushers I get it, interior linebackers also, but...


Why would Saban not play Fitzpatrick has a FS or Peppers coach not playing him at SS...

For 1st round picks it makes no sense to take projects...

I now have a headache.

I agree with you on Kindred. In another post I put him ahead of Peppers as the starting SS.

Last year I think we were far better with Kindred at SS and Peppers FS than the other way around. I'm sure it was discussed and I think it paid off and helped Kindred. I think he was one of the best SS in the league last year against the run.

I don't think it's time to give up on Peppers. And you very well could be right that he was a terrible pick last year but I'm not ready to make that call. I also don't think he was the worst player on the field and I will agree with tab on Pepper's tackling, of which I know how you stand.

I think depth is a wonderful thing. And considering we don't have a FS, it would be nice to have one. Give me Kindred and Fitzpatrick at SS and FS with Peppers and Nacua as depth and I think we're going to be okay.

I think drafting Fitz is the most important move for this defense. The Peppers vs. Kindred battle has nothing to do with it. Having Peppers and Kindred both as SS, make the team better. Putting a guy like Fitz at FS, makes the plan work.
I feel Peppers will be used as a roamer, like Polamalu was used in Pittsburgh. A blitzing safety, and short field guy.
Saying drafting Fitz means Peppers is a bust is just foolish.

I'm very torn.

I was leaning Barkley up until I heard the high regard Nick Saban holds Minkah in.

To me Barkley just isn't a good back...he's a great back...up there with Zeke, Leonard and Gurley.

Although this is a "good" draft at RB I don't think you pass on prospect that fits your team because you hope to get another back later on. The draft is its on beast and if pass on Gurley there is no guarantee that you even land one of the other "good" backs. And to me none of the backs are equal prospects to Barkley.

What better gift to give the new OC (and not to mention QB) then a RB that's fits the mold of the Lev Bell? If Barkley pan's out that changes the entire run game, offense and defense. It change's the whole team.

But you got Minka. Versatile. Smart. Great athlete. Can help at one of the biggest weak spots on the team and bring a leadership presence and swagger to the secondary. And depending on how he moves in the DB drill and his 40 and 3-cone numbers he may be good enough to play outside CB....IF..IF Minkah puts up CB numbers i think i would lean towards him.

If he puts up safety numbers then I prolly lean to Barkley.

I'm still on the draft both board, and trade up for your QB..

In regards to Fitz.. If he's drafted, he'll be our starting FS. The SS spot will be between Kindred and Peppers.

I've said it before, but I don't think Peppers can beat out Kindred. Williams will have to be creative to get Peppers on the field in some fashion.

Device, nothing would make me happier than being proved wrong on Peppers, kind like what is happening with Njoku (another player I was highly skeptical) and although I don't think Peppers will pan out, I think its to early to tell and the kid deserves every chance to prove himself.

I hate this kind if picks in the first round, picks where you read the draft profile and immediately see they are a bad fit, and that they are projects at most. Peppers the safety who can't cover nor tackle, Njoku the tight end that can't catch and Colemon the WR that can't release and play in tight coverage....

Now we have Fitzpatrick the FS that never played FS.... and that according to the nfl draft profile has awareness and coverage problems


Yes there is a spot on hybrid players, and yes they are productive in college, but until we run a D that requires a hybrid player, please don't draft one in the first round...

From the NFL draft profile:

"WEAKNESSES Plays with some hip tightness that limits lateral agility in coverage. May not have pure cover talent to play full-time cornerback. Allows some separation out of breaks. Feet are more quick than explosive when chasing receivers from the top of the route. Still needs to improve his awareness when asked to play deep safety. Has to learn to dial back urgency and play with more patience on the next level. Comes in hot as tackler and will run himself out of position to finish "

Doesn't sound like a FS to me, honestly.... Yes he is a great player, but until weknow why didn't Saban play him at FS we should just look somewhere else...

If you go back to the 2016 season I think you’ll see Saban played Fitz at FS. This year he played him a lot on the slot. Had 6 picks, I think in 2016, playing a deep safety role. Not endorsing him but not NOT endorsing him either. Don’t know if that will help you or not.

Not to contradict you but I think that Ronnie Harrison was the FS with Saban, not Fitzpatrick.. Harrison, IMHO, could a good 2nd round pick....

To my knowledge Fitz never played free safety...

I don't say there isn't a good explanation on why Saban never played Fitz in the position he is going to be drafted, maybe there is a very good explanation and I just don't know it.

We have Ronnie who was the FS while he was with Alabama and Eddie Jackson was the SS, Fitz played SS, not FS. The other SS was Hootie Jones, who also got hurt.

He played deep safety in 2016 for most of that season. Saban has also publicly said that Fitz's best fit is at FS in the NFL.

Not to nitpick, but I think Fitz played SS not FS the last part of the 2016 season, when Eddie Jackson was hurt...

Ronnie Harrison was the FS with Saban in the last 3 years.

Strange Saban saying that he was a better fit in FS and then playing Fitz has a SS and slot corner...

To me actions speak louder than words, but again, maybe there is a reason...

Until you watch tape from 2016 how can you contradict me?

I could say the same thing about you, can't I... but at least I have the Alabama depth charts and Ronnie Harrison bio and stats to prove my point.

You one the other hand have your word on watching the 2016 tapes... Which I doubt it, since having watched some of the Tide games, never saw Fitz playing FS...Ronnie was.. strange...

He is a great player... but I never saw him play FS...

He’s played corner, deep safety, and the “star” position, which is the nickle, for Alabama. He looked the best, imo at deep safety, which for us would be the FS position.

Quote from an SI article.....
Fitzpatrick plays every position in the secondary, sometimes switching from snap to snap. He has the cover skills of a cornerback but the instincts and range of a safety. This is the future, Saban says, as the game moves toward pass-heavy, open formations. “He’s the prototype” of a modern college DB, he says.

Another article......

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.seccoun...fitzpatrick/amp

Well I have watched the tape and it showed him lining up at DEEP safety, not in the box, what’s your definition of a FS, just what a depth chart tells you?

He could have lined up on occasions, has a FS... or play deep in slot corner, nickle, I don't know..

All games I saw, Ronnie was starting and playing FS.

Again like I've said, there could have been reasons or Fitz not being the Alabama starting FS,I just don't know any...

Except that hybrid players have high value on college football,most of it because this players physical attributes makes them stand out, man playing among kids...

Most of this players fail once they come to the NFL, except if you have a D that is designed to use one, which our's isn't.

A depth chart says where he plays... where he starts...

Why would you have a FS listed has a SS and a CB? And then on the same depth chart have another player listed has the FS... a player that if you go watch the tape is indeed playing FS...

Strange...

Just talk to anyone that followed the Tide and ask them who was the FS?

Fitz played more FS in 2016. Saban moved him to Star position, because it's the most position in a nickel formation. While Fitz is great physically, he's no Jalen Ramsey or Malik Hooker. The reason he plays Star so well is because his Football IQ is off the charts. There's a reason his teammates call him "Saban's son". imo you should watch his tape.

I’m not asking you what a depth chart said, I’m asking where did you see him playing? I saw him play DEEP safety. His skill set says he’s a free safety, while Harrison’s skill set says he’s a strong safety, regardless of what any depth chart says. Every article I read that quoted Saban never once did he differentiate Fitz as a “free” safety, always refered to him or Harrison as a “safety”. Like I asked what do you call a free safety? Just what the depth chart says he is? For you, what is it that you want your FS to do on defense?


I’m not as big on Fitz as most are on here, but I don’t know anyone can say the guy isn’t or hasn’t played free safety. He can cover the slot, cover the TE, play deep safety, support the run, he’s lined up at all the DB positions for Alabama. He’s also projected by every place I’ve seen to be either a corner or Free Safety.

You forget that he played the final games of last season and this season has a strong safety, not free safety...

He played SS, and was listed has a SS, and if you talk to Tide fans and say he is a SS,I don't think they will disagree

He could have lined deep on occasions, but I would bet so did Ronnie

Cover 2...That would answer your question, so please go back to the film and see where was Ronnie.... bet he was deep also...

If a Bama fan is saying that he played strong safety then they don't know Bama football

Here’s a game where he clearly plays free safety from 2016......


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wARjtwsmbrg

I don't know that what you say about Minkah is true, that he's NEVER played FS. I also think he's very good in coverage.

Everyone will have their opinions and that's yours. That's fine. I think your concerns are justified.

I also have said I'm not so sure that we won't go DL with the 4th pick and draft Chubb. I want Mayfield-Fitzpatrick, but sometimes reading some things I feel like it's going to be Darnold-Chubb.

Actually he played a lot in the slot in that game, the “star” position or nickle in Sabans defense.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=shlnbRpVziA

What I'm trying to say is the following..

If you need a FS to put Peppers has SS or bench him, instead of drafting Fitz,just draft the guy who played the position for 3 years, who is actually a solid player and very disciplined..

I actually think Ronnie fits better on Gregg's scheme than Fitz...

So we can have Saquan the QB and the FS in Ronnie...

:-)

I'm not saying Minkah can't play FS... just wanted to know the reasons why he wasn't Saban's FS...

I don't want a nickle, we already have that on Peppers... I wan't a solid FS. Ronnie could be that one,but there are other options.

Other then telling us his depth chart says he was a FS explain how Harrison fits Williams defense as a FS? I see him as a strong safety, the position we already have Kindred and Peppers posibly battling for. I don’t think he covers well enough to play FS.

I don't think highly of Ronnie, don't think he's a Palomalu or even Malik caliber, but he is solid, disciplined and low risk.

After a season of Peppers... Ronnie looks like a perfect player...

3 year start on a big program, 3 years D starter with Saban, sign me up... no Diva, no star player mentality,no playing for highlights on the FS position...

Because the FS is not a priority position in college football anymore. When you're the deepest of 5 DBs on the field, it means you're a liability in coverage. It means that you don't have the skill to play 1 on 1 with a TE or a WR. That's why Ronnie Harrison played deep safety all last year and why Minkah, whose football IQ and athletic ability allow him to play anywhere on the field, played the "star" position in Saban's defense. Minkah was a much more productive tool covering TEs and WRs and stopping runs than he would be chilling 25 yards behind the LoS.

Troy P wasn't a FS...

I know that, he was never listed has a FS... kidding...

But I guess you know what I wanted to say...

Just a low key guy,safe, solid. That's what I want now, let Saquan be the star...

Ronnie Harrison is a prototypical strong safety. Been compared to Kam Chanccelor, who is a strong safety. You told me nothing of the abilities that you see from him that says he can play free safety. What can Harrison do that translates to him being able to play free safety?

Well, he played FS for 3 years with Saban... that's enough for me..

Was the starter at the position...


from the nfl draft profile:
STRENGTHS Possesses outstanding combination of size and speed. Quick pedal with easy transitions in two-deep. Is comfortable and experienced playing high or low safety. Has good makeup speed. Doesn't get overly focused on routes. Finds time to read quarterback's eyes. Capable of quality man coverage in certain matchups. Plays with route anticipation and ability to transition quickly to match. Plays under the route and uses his length to knock passes away. Physical hitter with punishment as his default setting. Takes rapid downhill approach as high safety in run supporter. Rangy with ability to leap into a long-distance tackle when pursuit angle goes askew. Quick to punch and discard blockers. Handles work near the line of scrimmage with desired level of aggression. Has blitz talent.

WEAKNESSES Gets antsy and too willing to overreact. Will lose leverage with pursuit angles and allows talented running backs opportunities to beat him back inside. Needs to play under control and with better patience in open field. Complex routes can bait him into jumping an early break. Has the necessary speed to play over the top but doesn't always access it on consistent basis. Can be too lackadaisical when rolling from one spot to another pre-snap. Has too many lead shoulder hits as a tackler. Has to become more willing to wrap rather than strike to prevent some of his missed tackles. Angular frame can take the worst of it in head-on collisions.

Don't think he is a star, but can be a solid player if he plays disciplined.

In some weird way, its like the discussion between Kindred and Peppers... I like the proven guy, others will risk it with Peppers...

Well not the same thing,because Minkah IMHO is a great player,but the reasoning is the same.

You still not giving me anything that you’ve seen from his tape that explains why you think he can play free safety in the NFL. I like Harrison a lot as a player, feel he’s a better prospect then any of the safeties we currently have, but no way would I draft him as a free safety. You can have your opinion that he can play there but let’s wait and see where he ends up playing once he’s on a roster.

I would bet a quarter, that if Chubb is available at #4 that he is our choice.

I wasn't arguing for drafting Ronnie,just saying if we want a FS better take him than Fitz...

I have a problem with hitting FS's, so probably Ronnie wouldn't be my first choice for the position, but if he can learn how to tackle and play with contention,I think he will be alright.

But considering this draft class, maybe he is the safest bet for FS... Fitz is a great player, but top 4, I don't think so.

I'm not opposed to that.

Again please tell us what it is you're looking for your FS to do on the Browns? On the field, what skill set?