DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Palus Politicus Trump announces Tariffs

Trump to set steep tariffs on steel and aluminum imports next week

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/03/01/trump-steel-tariffs-432143

Hmmm...

First gun legislation and now tariffs/trade deals like Bernie Sanders proposed and Trumpians called him a socialist like it was the 'N' word. LOL, I might be beginning to like Trump just a little. Very little.

Bernie on Trade

Mueller must be really close.

Tariffs are actually one thing Trump has been somewhat consistent on. Back in the 80's, he used to rail against Reagan, claiming that he was sending the country down the toilet because of his weakness and ineptitude on trade. He called on Reagan to impose tariffs quite often.

He never practiced what he preached, obviously, but his stance on tariffs has been pretty firm in word (if not deed).

Didn't realize this. Of course he used to be a democrat, or called himself that anyway. But I noticed that he and Hillary both seen Bernie taking off with huge crowds and suddenly they adopted many of his talking points.

Both Trump and Hillary lack conviction and blow with the wind. And, yes, right now the winds are behind Bernie's back.

Trump obviously doesn't understand economics, but to be fair, he's been firm on tariffs for a long time.

The market's gonna tank because of this. Looking forward to the parrots who scream "stock market!" explain this away.

yea, not gonna be great for people like me who work in the global marketplace, due to secondary effects like a weakening US dollar. It's already been weakening so I'm hoping it doesn't go down much farther...

It also will have more direct effects such as raising the price of goods made with steel and aluminum. Companies won't pay the tariffs, customers will.

gage, you're one of the smartest posters here, and it's mainly because of your dogged insistence to ask the question "How is this helping me, the man who is doing right to provide for me and my people?"

You've been exemplary in asking the why and how, and that's why you get little engagement - people want to hear for/against. They don't want nuance.

There are a handful of posters on this board who make me smarter for listening, and you're in that class.

The first three questions that entered my mind, only one of them were in regard to trade.

1. The problem with tariffs is that they are a two way street. China and their allies cover a large part of the world and are more and more of a global consumer market. I'm sure they will make similar moves that will impact American trading overseas.

2. It seems this administration has depended heavily on China to act as a go between trying to help the situation with N. Korea. I don't see how this could possibly be a positive in that regard.

3. China has helped cover much of our debt. They hold a lot of markers on that debt. I highly doubt that's going to help them wish to help cover future debt incurred. And with about a trillion and a half dollars more debt created by this administration there will be even more American debt that will need to be covered.

Thanks for the words PDF. I don't expect to get engagement, and I also don't expect to be "right" either. I can easily see where those who work in steel would look to benefit from this move by POTUS. This industry directly employs somewhere around 150k people. They will definitely benefit from the government manufacturing a decrease in supply in the US market. Unfortunately I think the data supports that the number of Americans it will hurt monetarily will be in the millions.

This will only impact industries that buy raw steel/aluminum in the US. So any cars made abroad will be essentially left without impact, unless they bought US steel on export, in which case it may be cheaper to buy it elsewhere in the global marketplace, since US steel prices will go up as a result of this move. So we may see a case where cars are more expensive in some, but not all cases, as one example. We are also seeing (possibly long term) impacts in the stock market from this move. While Steel stocks are up (US Steel/Century/others), companies that buy raw steel are going down (Boeing/Ford/others). And there are many more companies that buy raw steel than manufacture it, hence why the stock market could stay down for a while, as now those companies have to spend more money acquiring the raw goods.

This is just a calculated political move to keep voters on team GOP, as evidenced by the local quotient (how important steel jobs are to an area) and even just by raw numbers: https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes472221.htm . 8 of the top 10 areas by local quotient are in states that went for Trump in 2016.

Inflation is around the corner hang on!

Recession soon to follow, because of the crazy tax cuts on the rich.

Ok I sat back and let the Trump haters spew, so now I will show you why the tariffs...

Our steel and aluminum manufacturing is suffering under the prices of dumped foreign product.

#1 For reasons of National Security we need to produce these things at home or we are beholden to those, in time of war or need, who provide those products to us.

#2 Not long ago Trump placed Tariffs on Washing Machines and Solar Products. So what has happened?
Foreign Corporations are lining up to open plants in America, investing billions, in order to keep their best customers and avoid those tariffs. Thousands of jobs coming to America!

To understand Trump is to love Trump.

Somebody just watched Fox News!

That's a whopping 1.68%

Whooo Weeee That done broke the bank!

Why the tariffs??? China is breaking trade deals.....they are purposely having their companies sell steel at a loss to US consumers and then the Chinese government is paying those companies the difference...why..to destabilize US steel companies and drive them out of business...once gone...Chinese steel makers will raise prices on American consumers on an inferior steel product (Chinese steel is crapola).

So IMO.....make it 50%

I am 100% in favor of free trade and free market principles...however....free trade and free markets do not exist so why pretend they do.

As someone who has worked in the steel industry and with the Steelworkers Union I actually support Donald 100% on this one.

"We must protect our country and our workers. Our steel industry is in bad shape. IF YOU DON’T HAVE STEEL, YOU DON’T HAVE A COUNTRY!"

-President Donald Trump

I am sure some countries will place tariffs on us as retaliation and some prices will rise but it doesn't change America's need for a healthy steel industry. National Security first.

Chinese steel is indeed crapola. The Chinese aren't engaging in fair trade. But I doubt very much if tariffs are the long term solution or the best way to get there. It's great that a few people get to thump their chest and think they are playing hard ball with the evil foreigners but the proof of this will be in 12-24-26 months time and what impact it's had on the economy at large.

If there are 150,000-200,000 steel worker jobs in the USA .... how many millions of other livelihoods will *potentially* be negatively impacted with an escalation in steel prices and possible retaliation tariffs on other products or raw goods?

"When a country Taxes our products coming in at, say, 50%, and we Tax the same product coming into our country at ZERO, not fair or smart. We will soon be starting RECIPROCAL TAXES so that we will charge the same thing as they charge us. $800 Billion Trade Deficit-have no choice!"

-President Donald Trump

I don't believe you will win many debates on economics by quoting what Trump may or may not have said, or tweeted at some point in the last X number of years.

The markets sure don't seem to have reacted well to the news.

J/C

I see the arguments against the tariffs, I actually do. Prices are going to up. That will most def. happen.

to my friends on the left against this - is the price of goods going up and supplying people with an industry that will start to thrive not worth the little extra in goods? You have no problem the government taxing people to help others, **IF** the increase in goods leads to more good paying steel jobs here in the US - why would you be against that? Now, I know, I know, we have to see if that happens, but placate me - in theory, why?

Uh, Trump said that yesterday and the Markets are not the Economy or National Security. They are Corporations dealing internationally when it comes to the DOW.

Actually it's always been the right who has been against it. Until Trump.

Im gonna need some proof on that claim. Because I believe it has been mainly the left opposing any tariffs because of their love for a global economy.

umm, we literally just watched hillary fall partly due to her being a globalist.

Donald Trump Has Transformed the Way Republicans View ‘Free Trade’

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/201...free-trade.html

Why Most Conservative Free-Traders Have Thrown in the Towel

https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-most-conservative-free-traders-have-thrown-in-the-towel

Shocked GOP senators pan Trump's tariff announcement

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/shocke...article/2650459

GOP Reaction to Trump Tariffs is Fast, Furious and Negative

https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/gop-reaction-trump-tariffs-fast-furious-negative

GOP meltdown over Trump plan to impose steel, aluminum tariffs

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-...xt-week-n852341

I'm really surprised you weren't aware of this.

WASHINGTON (AP) -- President Donald Trump on Friday insisted "trade wars are good, and easy to win," a bold claim that prompted fierce pushback world leaders who vowed retaliation against U.S. businesses like blue jeans and motorcycles.

"Make no mistake: If the president goes through with this, it will kill American jobs -- that's what every trade war ultimately does," said Sen. Ben Sasse, a Nebraska Republican.

Trump has declared that the U.S. will impose punishing tariffs on steel and aluminum imports. The move will likely raise steel and aluminum prices here. That's good for U.S. manufacturers. But it's bad for companies that use the metals, and it prompted red flags from industries ranging from tool and dye makers to beer distributors to manufacturers of air conditioners. The American International Automobile Dealers Association warned it would drive prices up "substantially."

Markets tumbled in Asia, where China expressed "grave concern," and the weakness spread to Europe, where the European Union promised retaliation against American exports if Trump follows through. In the United States, the S&P 500 dropped as much as 1.1 percent before paring its decline.

"None of this is reasonable, but reason is a sentiment that's very unevenly distributed in the world," said Jean-Claude Juncker, president of the EU's executive body.

Asked if a trade war is brewing, he said: "I can't see how this isn't part of war-like behavior."

Early Friday, Trump took to Twitter to defend himself: "When a country (USA) is losing many billions of dollars on trade with virtually every country it does business with, trade wars are good, and easy to win. Example, when we are down $100 billion with a certain country and they get cute, don't trade anymore-we win big. It's easy!"

He later tweeted: "Our steel industry is in bad shape. IF YOU DON'T HAVE STEEL, YOU DON'T HAVE A COUNTRY!"

Sen. Sasse echoed a sentiment of many U.S. lawmakers when he issued a statement in response: "Kooky 18th century protectionism will jack up prices on American families."

Trump's announcement came only after an intense internal White House debate. It brought harsh criticism from some Republicans and roiled financial markets with concerns about economic ramifications.

Trump has long railed against what he deems unfair trade practices by China and others. This week, he summoned steel and aluminum executives to the White House and declared he would levy penalties of 25 percent on imported steel and 10 percent on aluminum imports. The tariffs, he said, would remain for "a long period of time," but it was not immediately clear if certain trading partners would be exempt.

"This is going to have fallout on our downstream suppliers, particularly in the automotive, machinery and aircraft sectors," said Wendy Cutler, a former U.S. trade official who is now vice president of the Asia Society Policy Institute. "What benefits one industry can hurt another. What saves one job can jeopardize another."

Steel-consuming companies said steel tariffs imposed in 2002 by President George W. Bush ended up wiping out 200,000 U.S. jobs.

The decision had been strenuously debated within the White House, with top officials such as economic adviser Gary Cohn and Defense Secretary Jim Mattis raising concerns.

The penalties were pushed by Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross and White House trade adviser Peter Navarro, an economist who has favored taking aggressive action.

Mattis, in a memo to Commerce, said U.S. military requirements for steel and aluminum represent about 3 percent of U.S. production and that the department was "concerned about the negative impact on our key allies" of any tariffs. He added that targeted tariffs would be preferable to global quotas or tariffs.

Plans for Trump to make an announcement were thrown into doubt for a time because of the internal divisions. The actual event caught some top White House officials off guard and left aides scrambling for details. Key Senate offices also did not receive advance notice.

White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said the decision "shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone," noting that the president had been talking about it "for decades." On Friday, she told reporters that Trump wasn't concerned about the day's market decline, adding that the "president is still focused on long term economic fundamentals."

Sasse wasn't the only Republican in Congress who was plainly upset.

GOP Sen. Pat Roberts of Kansas, chairman of the Senate Agriculture Committee, said, "Every time you do this, you get a retaliation and agriculture is the No. 1 target." House Speaker Paul Ryan, R-Wis., said through a spokesman he hoped Trump would "consider the unintended consequences of this idea and look at other approaches before moving forward."

Trump met with more than a dozen executives, including representatives from U.S. Steel Corp., Arcelor Mittal, Nucor, JW Aluminum and Century Aluminum. The industry leaders urged Trump to act, saying they had been unfairly hurt by a glut of imports.

"We are not protectionist. We want a level playing field," said Dave Burritt, president and chief executive officer at U.S. Steel.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trump-ord...3--finance.html

i mean....the GOP certainly isn't on board. so i dunno.

Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross on potential price increases from Trump tariffs: 'No big deal'

-Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross tells CNBC that President Donald Trump's tariffs are "no big deal."
-Ross says the tariffs on aluminum and steel will have a "broad" but "trivial" impact on prices.

Ross used a can of Campbell's Soup to stress his point about what he calls insignificant price increases from Trump's tariffs.

"In a can of Campbell's Soup, there are about 2.6 pennies worth of steel. So if that goes up by 25 percent, that's about six-tenths of 1 cent on the price on a can of Campbell's Soup," Ross contended. "I just bought this can today at a 7-Eleven ... and it priced at a $1.99. Who in the world is going to be too bothered?"

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/02/commerce...-on-prices.html

of course the rothschild banker doesn't think it's a big deal.

he used to paying 300 bucks for shampoo anyway.

"When a country Taxes our products coming in at, say, 50%, and we Tax the same product coming into our country at ZERO, not fair or smart. We will soon be starting RECIPROCAL TAXES so that we will charge the same thing as they charge us. $800 Billion Trade Deficit-have no choice!"

-President Donald Trump

Please stop favoring foreign companies, many subsidized by their governments, over middle class Americans and jobs.

Watching FOX News again I see.

The people the most upset about this are your fellow Republicans. Maybe you should make sure they get your memo.

Stop posting and drive your Japanese car to Walmart to buy more Chinese products, will ya.

That is what got America into this jam to begin with.

"Capitalism is the greatest, because competition creates the best products for the consumer. Also, stop buying Chinese products because they are undercutting us!"

I drive a Chevrolet.

some of the best songs ever made were about driving around in a chevy.

You have to realize that this entire Tariff thing may just go away in the end.

Trump may just be flexing America's muscles and putting the world on notice of what could come if fair trade deals remain unfair.

No mere mortal knows the mind of the Trump.

Time will tell.

2 things -

no way you buy a can of soup at 7-11 for 1.99. place is insanely overpriced

and

did he get to call ice to come after?

ugh, if your gonna buy American - you can do much better than a chevy.

Great post 2/2.